Ladies, Does This Offend You?

[TheVP]

Last month I was in our Boston Office meeting with fellow staff. Present at this meeting was a woman in her later fifties that is hired on contract as an adviser. During this meeting, my colleagues and myself were having a conversational discussion about our personal assistants and the challenges involved with finding a good one. I mentioned that two years ago, there was a girl that I hired that was wonderful at her job and how she made my life so easy, and I've been annoyed that I haven't been able to find anyone nearly as good since she got married and left our company.

 

Anyhow, just yesterday (almost a month later), I've received a long scathing email from this woman (CCing everyone else who was present in the meeting). This email was saying that it is very sexist and derogatory to call a woman in the workforce "girl" and asking how I would like to be called "boy".

 

I never meant offense, and referring to any woman that is younger that me as "girl" seems normal to me. In fact, I'm pretty sure I hear female workers calling other ones "girl".

 

I've been ignorant about proper etiquette before, so I'm not afraid to admit I might be in the wrong, but I'm curious to hear your opinions.

[wiseoldwoman]

Yes, it is offensive to refer to a grown woman as a girl in the workplace. It's demeaning. If your boss was a woman younger than you, would you refer to her as a girl? I don't think so. This isn't a matter of etiquette - it's a matter of respect. You showed a lack of respect for your assistant and it sounds as though you and your colleagues have a general lack of respect for your assistants and the difficult job they have.

[jas56]

Honestly, I think that the message went further than it should have. If this woman had ANY proper etiquette, she would have addressed him individually to simply "remind" him that he should have referred to her another way (young lady, woman, whatever). It sounds like someone just took the opportunity to take something TOTALLY out of context and go overboard. TheVP It doesn't sound like you meant any harm as it was simply in conversation. Just be mindful of what you say next time to avoid these types of issues.

[offplanet]

Where I work, all the women, mostly in 50's to 60's, refer to each other as 'girls'.

[Firiel]

I know I probably should be offended by this, but I wouldn't be. I do see where she's coming from, though. I think that it would have been fine for the woman to send you a firm but polite (and private) e-mail a day or two after the event about the subject. What she did, though, was over the line and rather degrading, honestly.

[wiseoldwoman]

Sounds to me as though the attitude in your meeting was disrespectful to your assistants in general - and it sounds as though all your colleagues are men, with your assistants, who you rely on so heavily, yet are so disappointed in, are all women. Since everyone in the meeting appears to have had the same attitude, it was fitting the message be sent to everyone.

 

While woman can refer to themselves as girls, that doesn't make it appropriate for someone else to - especially a boss in a workplace. Just like one black person might refer to another as a n***** and it's okay, but it's definitely NOT okay for a white person to. And I know of NO professional woman who ever refers to herself as a girl in the workplace. Or would ever put up with being referred to that way. It's simply an unprofessional word for anyone to use in that context.

[cdmcbride]

I don't think calling her 'girl' is sexist or derogatory. She needs more to do - and how dare a contractor approach you via email CCing other staff. Is she had an issue with the comment, she needed to speak to you directly and privately. You were speaking of the personal assistant in a positive manner. If your comments were negative about the assistant she might think it was meant an insult, but it wasn't. I would actually (almost 40) prefer you call me 'girl' than 'young lady'. Young lady seems as if I am being scolded.

[DN]

She may have a point but if she felt compelled to say something she should have done so privately. She was way out of line in what she did.

[Flyingpiglet]

I personally wouldn't take offence.

And like the others have said, if this 'lady' did think it was wrong she should have addressed to OP personally, not made an attempt to humiliate him by copying all work colleagues into the email! Pot, kettle, black!!! Unless everybody constantly bites their tongue, somebody is always going to be offended!

 

The guys were I work call me girl sometimes.. In turn, I often call them Boyo!!!

 

OP, perhaps you should mail her back apologising for the fact that she interpreted your use of words as sexist and derogatory when that was not how they were intended... and politely ask that if she has any issues she would like to discuss, would she kindly address them to you in person!

[Doc Blaze]

this was way over the top. everyone gets offended by everything now a days.

[jas56]

While woman can refer to themselves as girls, that doesn't make it appropriate for someone else to - especially a boss in a workplace. Just like one black person might refer to another as a n***** and it's okay, but it's definitely NOT okay for a white person to.

 

Not to get off topic here, but I think this was be a poor example to use in this case. I do not think it is ok for anyone to use that word at all. Anybody addressing me by that word will be spoken to accordingly greeting or not. I agree that there should be a degree of professionalism in the workplace but it was simply a misunderstanding. The person emailing him committed the very same act that she was fuming about so nobody is right in this case. It is rather a learning experience.

[FathomFear]

I would say that you're both in the wrong. Here is how I see it:

 

1) Yes, it is not appropriate to refer to women as "girls". It's a bad habit that guys especially have, but you always need to be mindful of it especially in a workplace setting. I often catch my coworkers doing this and I usually address it right away with something to the effect of "You mean woman or person, right?"

 

2) She acted inappropriately by addressing the issue through a passive-aggressive mass email. The correct way of dealing with any workplace conflict is to address it one-on-one with the other person first. If you don't make any progress then you can go up the chain, usually to that person's boss or a HR rep, but it's never appropriate to essentially spam coworkers in some sort of attempt to embarrass someone.

[Angel Irulan]

Well, how would you feel it if your fellow employees or boss called out: "Hey boy, come over here!" You'd likely think that very rude, and so would I!

 

Angel

[DN]

As I read it you referred to her as 'girl' in a private meeting among colleagues and did not address her in that way in person? is that right?

[Day_Walker]

I could see it being a dismissive term but I think it is a grey area

[Flyingpiglet]

As I read it you referred to her as 'girl' in a private meeting among colleagues and did not address her in that way in person? is that right?

That's how i read it also. Would be a different story if it was shouted accross a room... but then I wouldn't want anybody to shout 'hey you woman/lady' either.

[Tanzi]

Well, how would you feel it if your fellow employees or boss called out: "Hey boy, come over here!" You'd likely think that very rude, and so would I!

 

Angel

 

He didn't call her "hey girl" to her face he referrred to her as a girl instead of a woman or a lady. Agreed that it may not have been appropriate but it was obviously a slip up and not meant to cause any offence. The way in which it was dealt with was totally over the top.

[FathomFear]

He didn't call her "hey girl" to her face he referrred to her as a girl instead of a woman or a lady. Agreed that it may not have been appropriate but it was obviously a slip up and not meant to cause any offence. The way in which it was dealt with was totally over the top.

 

The approach I take is to completely avoid words like boy/girl/man/woman/etc unless there's some sort of relevant need to signify gender. For example, I would have said "There was an assistant I had who was wonderful and made my life so easy" vs. "There was a girl that I hired that was wonderful at her job and how she made my life so easy". When you layer your language heavily with references to gender you're basically saying that it's somehow relevant to your story, which in most cases it is not.

 

It's a complicated issue as women tend to get hit especially hard with this. Newspapers will identify women by their gender vs. something more relevant. For example, if a guy gets killed in a car accident the headline will read "Lawyer killed in drunk driving accident", but if the same happens to a woman studies have shown the headline is more likely going to be "Mother of two killed in drunk driving accident".

[Batya33]

I would be offended to be referred to as "girl" in the workplace unless the person saying it was over 80 years old and hadn't been in an office in years. I'd never call a man younger than me "boy" - I used to work with plenty of teenage/college interns and I either referred to them by their first names(because our office was a first name kind of place) or as "the intern I work with" etc.

[Lamour detruit]

Massive exaggeration. You accidentally slipped up and called someone a girl rather than a woman one time..cry me a river. People get offended far too easy these days, it's a joke. It's fine if she wanted to leave a gentle note that she doesn't like the term, but to go crazy about it is honestly..quite ridiculous.

[thejigsup]

Well, I was an assitant to important men several times in my career, and when they called me "girl" I threatened to quite. In the course of my employment years I went to college and earned my AS, BA, and MHD while I was working full time and being a single mother. I was no one's "girl", I was a woman! When I hear this term applied by men to any woman over the age of 25, I just see red. I know of very few "men" who could do what I did. But I digress, yes, I think this woman was well withing her rights to say something. Us female "women" need to stand up for each other and that is exactly what she did. I never call men "boys", that would be totally inappropriate, wouldn't it?

[FathomFear]

Massive exaggeration. You accidentally slipped up and called someone a girl rather than a woman one time..cry me a river. People get offended far too easy these days, it's a joke. It's fine if she wanted to leave a gentle note that she doesn't like the term, but to go crazy about it is honestly..quite ridiculous.

 

Something rude and disrespectful is still rude and disrespectful, regardless of whether you do it once or a hundred times. The fact of the matter is that a woman is not a girl, and using the term to someone you don't know well or have rapport with is just asking for trouble.

[Mesemene]

It doesn't really bother me, but it really depends on the context. If someone referred to me as their "office girl" or something, then yes, I'd be offended.

 

But if it's strictly as a gender reference, probably wouldn't - and as others have said, if I'm offended, I try to let the person know privately "hey, I find that term demeaning and would appreciate you not using it."

 

Mass-mailing is a pretty crappy way to deal with most situations that only involve one person, IMO. It's like a boss giving you a verbal thrashing in the break room instead of pulling you to a private office - it's unnecessarily humiliating and can cause a lot of anger and resentment.

[Tanzi]

I would have said "There was an assistant I had who was wonderful and made my life so easy" vs. "There was a girl that I hired that was wonderful at her job and how she made my life so easy". When you layer your language heavily with references to gender you're basically saying that it's somehow relevant to your story, which in most cases it is not.

 

I agree. Overall it is a much more professional approach and one that puts far more importance to the role than the gender.

[DN]

People are far too quick to take offence on behalf of other people.

 

OP - maybe you should ask your womanfriend if she objects to her manfriend saying that.