queenie86 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 ... Should they pay more often, or should it be about 50/50? This isn't about gender roles, but the guy I'm dating makes much more money than I do. I'm currently unemployed and aggressively job-hunting, and if I were to get a job, he would still make about 3-4 times more than I do. Based on our fields, I don't think I'd ever catch up. The relationship is relatively new, and he paid for the majority of things when we began dating, but made it clear that his ideal is 50/50. I don't think a man should always have to pay for a woman, and I understand it's frustrating to be expected to pay (I've been in the reverse situation, and it was). We're now doing 50/50... and as much as I try and not let it annoy me, it still sometimes does! Our relationship is relatively new, and we're not talking about moving in or anything. But we did talk and I said that if I were to live with a guy who made 3 times as much as I do, I'd want to split rent 60/40 or along those lines (50/50 would seem unfair to me). And if I made 3x what my boyfriend made, I'd obviously pay more of the rent. He thinks in that situation it should be 50/50. He is a generous person, but these different ideas of money in a relationship are worrying me. Our relationship is perfect in every other way, and we have yet to fight about this. I feel like a bit of an entitled brat, so ... how can I get over this and agree to 50/50? If you've been in a similar situation, how have you dealt with money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 In a marriage, I don't think that 50/50 is fair if you are making $25,000 and he is making $75,000. Let's say that the monthly rent for where you live is $2000. So you each pay $1000. That is nearly 50% of your monthly income, while that is only 15% of his monthly income. Then he has a lot of disposable income and you are pinching your pennies. Doesn't really seem fair in a marriage where there is supposed to be partnership. If you do continue to date him, I would suggest cheap dates that you can afford now. ie, picnics in the park, free movie screenings, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I guess what I'm saying is that if he really wants to do everything 50/50, then you shouldn't stress yourself to keep up with his lifestyle. ie, live in a place where you can afford 50% of the rent easily, etc... don't go on vacation with him unless you can afford that 50%. I think he would soon find he would not enjoy doing 50/50 if his woman can't keep up with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tattoobunnie Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I think whoever makes the most, pays the most. I'm in the opposite of your situation. While I have been in several long-term relationships where the man paid for everything. The one I'm marrying made makes almost nothing in comparison to me, and now, nothing till his company picks up which can be a long while. So when they are dinners at a 4 star, I pay. At a diner, or cheap, he pays. And I don't believe in taking turns. It's about taking care of each other. And since you're both new, honestly, I'm surprised he isn't bucking up to woo you. In fact, all the men in my life, family, friends, co-workers, associates, always pay for the women. It sounds like he has issues or anxiety from being used, or thinks women are gold-diggers. Alot of self- made men are like that when they make bank. Only the ones that realize that it's not about the money, that it's about them being able to make a nice nest for others that they do not believe in T1t for tat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DN Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Men should not have to 'woo' women with money (or vice-versa) - the idea of that is fairly repellent and is also most unwise. I think that no one should be expected to subsidise another when dating but obviously if you can't afford to go places that he may want to go he is going to have to pay more or all for that particular date. Oftentimes the problem that people have is that they are 'expected' to pay either because of outdated gender roles or because they earn more. With the latter , it's not their fault that they earn more and in any event people tend to live up (and sometimes beyond) their income. They will have a more expensive house, car and so on and don't always have lots of spare cash. So they can get pretty resentful when they are expected to subsidise a partner who earns less. However, as Annie says, if you simply say that you can't afford to go to all the places he might want to then he has the option of going somewhere you can afford or treating you. Once married, or moving in together, there is a different dynamic and people have very different ways of dealing with finances. Some people keep separate accounts from which they pay joint bills either 50/50 or proportionate to income and keep the rest of their income to themselves. Others, like my wife and I, consider both incomes as our money and pool it in joint accounts. The important thing is that the arrangement be acceptable to both because arguments can be made for and against any system as being fair or unfair. It may be that you and this man have very different and irreconcilable views on how to manage money and that it would be wiser to part company now before things get too emotionally intertwined. However, you may be able to reach some sort of compromise. But I would not recommend asserting or insinuating that you have a right to expect him to subsidise you because he earns more any more than he should expect you to go into debt to pay for things you can't afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tattoobunnie Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Honestly, from where I'm from, it's considered incredibly rude for a woman to try to pay for the first couple of months. In fact, it's considered an insult if the woman tries to do 50/50, or even funnier, shocking. When they do that, it's the message that "I can't stand you", or "we're friends." So I guess it's repellent in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenie86 Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 He definitely does not expect me to "keep up" with him and he realizes that if he wants to do something very expensive, he'll have to pay. He is frugal in general and lives below his means, which I respect and agree with. I definitely am not with him for his money (not that anyone has accused me of that), and I'd date him if he were also unemployed or earned much less than me. I just think that paying, for instance, rent according to what we each make is fair, not a 50/50 split. We don't live together now, so that's not an issue, but yes I am scared of getting more entangled and having it come up. Can I bring it up now and discuss it? It has become a touchy subject for me, and I don't want to fight about it or give him the impression that I want him to support me. Also, we are recently long-distance (as of two days ago) with plans for me to visit him in two months. He lives accross the country and has offered to split the cost of a plane ticket with me, which I think is fine. However, he has also said he'd want me to split the cost with him if/when he flies to my city to see me, and something about giving him money when he just makes so much more than me makes me uncomfortable. I would pay for some of his ticket, but half just seems unfair. I really, really like this guy, but I'm afraid this will become a bigger and bigger issue and it's already become something I'm uncomfortable talking about. He is amazing in every way and very understanding/attentive/ generous in other regards. Is this something worth breaking up over ...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DN Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Honestly, from where I'm from, it's considered incredibly rude for a woman to try to pay for the first couple of months. In fact, it's considered an insult if the woman tries to do 50/50, or even funnier, shocking. When they do that, it's the message that "I can't stand you", or "we're friends." So I guess it's repellent in Canada.Why would anyone continue to go out with someone for a couple of months if they can't stand them? How very odd. In any event, I still think that the OP would be wise not to push this particular guy into spending more money on her if she wants to maintain a relationship with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenie86 Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 Also, he did pay 80-90% of everything the first two months or so. It's just in the past week, and going forward, that he expects 50/50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DN Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Also, he did pay 80-90% of everything the first two months or so. It's just in the past week, and going forward, that he expects 50/50.Well, that was generous of him wasn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tattoobunnie Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Why would anyone continue to go out with someone for a couple of months if they can't stand them? How very odd. Huh? Oh, no, the men here insist on paying for the first couple of dates, and courtship lasts months on end. I guess growing up in a region where all the men over multitudes of generations pay even for their female friends, men are not viewed here as being taken advantaged of, nor do they ever feel forced to, or obligated to, they just choose to. Anyway, I think anyone who's so focused on money, money, money, do have their own issues with it, and it will always be an issue they focus on, and will always struggle with it. So, if a guy is a penny-pincher now, and it's rubbing you the wrong way, get out now, cuz not having similar views on this will eat you alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenie86 Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 Yes, that's why I said he is very generous. I am just worried about if we move in, he is making 4x more than me, and expects me to split rent 50/50. I can't see that as fair because if the situation were reversed, I would never expect my lower-paid bf to pay half the rent. I also am aware I am not the most generous person ever (especially being unemployed!) which is why I am trying as hard as I can to see his side as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DN Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Huh? Oh, no, the men here insist on paying for the first couple of dates, and courtship lasts months on end. I guess growing up in a region where all the men over multitudes of generations pay even for their female friends, men are not viewed here as being taken advantaged of, nor do they ever feel forced to, or obligated to, they just choose to. Anyway, I think anyone who's so focused on money, money, money, do have their own issues with it, and it will always be an issue they focus on, and will always struggle with it. So, if a guy is a penny-pincher now, and it's rubbing you the wrong way, get out now, cuz not having similar views on this will eat you alive.Well, there are places where it takes a while for people to catch up. I don't think this guy is a penny-pincher since he has already paid for 90% of the dates for a couple of months which is the standard expected where you come from apparently. As for being focused on money, money, money, - it was the OP that posted about money not her boyfriend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tattoobunnie Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Worry about it when you both have talked about moving in together. Figure out first if this guy would even be the one for you. In a few months, you might even think he stinks. And then, you would have wasted too much time worrying about moving in with him now even though it's not on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tattoobunnie Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Well, there are places where it takes a while for people to catch up. I don't think this guy is a penny-pincher since he has already paid for 90% of the dates for a couple of months which is the standard expected where you come from apparently. As for being focused on money, money, money, - it was the OP that posted about money not her boyfriend. Sorry OP...perfect example...me and DN have completely different views about money. And love to fight about it. He's adamant about things being 50/50 right from the beginning. And my background and metro location in the United States, and the current and old school generations really believe in treating women like gold. Man, if I took a guy home and told my folks he believed in 50/50, they think he was a total cheapstake, even if I said I was fine with it. In Norwegian countries, it's more common to go Dutch. So what it all comes to, what do you want in a relationship??? Cuz if your partner is not suiting your fundamental needs, don't have similar upbringings that you can compromise on, and the stress is freaking you out, I don't think this guy is the right guy for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DN Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 In Norwegian countries, it's more common to go Dutch.I think you mean Scandinavian countries, Norway is a single country. queenie86, you say this is not a gender issue but of who earns more so let's stick to that although the same basic reasoning applies. Some people (men and women) don't like to think that someone is taking advantage of them. It's the expectation that they should pay an unequal share of dating that bothers them as if their partner has some sort of right to their money. Remember it is very easy to be generous with other people's money and to criticise them or look down on them if they don't want to spend a disproportionate amount on others. I don't believe it is anyone's place to demand that their partner pays more because they earn more - it's their money and they get to decide how they spend it. I think that now is the time you should be looking ahead, it would be wrong to go along with what he wants now only to do a volte-face later on when marriage may become a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenie86 Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 so we just discussed it a bit, and I said that I think that if we lived together (hypothetically, we def. are not there yet), it would be fair to split rent 50/50 based on income. He said he doesn't agree with that and thinks everyone should be self-sufficient (I can't argue with that). I said well, what if I were paying $600 a month rent, and we wanted to move into a place together that was $2000 a month, if the situation were reversed economically I would never expect my bf to pay half that cost. He said in that case I'd figure out how much I could afford, and if that were, say, $800, he would cover the remaining $1200. So he doesn't expect me to keep up with his lifestyle; he knows that if he wants more expensive things he will have to pay more than half the cost. Still, that winds up with me paying 32% of my monthly income on rent and him paying 15% of his on rent. I agree that everyone should be self sufficient and he shouldn't subsidize my living, but I guess if I were the wealthier partner I wouldn't want them to have more of a burden than I if I could split according to income. I don't know how I feel about it--it's definitely better than 50/50 but I'm afraid we just have different, incompatible views on this. If I were making more than my bf, I'd pay more according to my income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velvette Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 hmm... this is a sticky situation. I too believe the one who earns more, regardless of gender, ought to cover more of the bills. but only in serious relationships. moved-in, married--it's a partnership, and you split the burden by means of who can shoulder it better. I mean if he's a car mechanic, is he going to expect you to fix the car 50/50 too? money isn't everything, so if he's making a fuss about it having to be exactly equal, I'd think he's a bit too suspicious. some deeper-rooted anxiety about being used and all. of course, since you've only been dating a couple months, it's not yet a "marriage in the bag" thing. and I wouldn't blame him for not wanting to spend excessive money on someone who he may not permanently end up with, and yet that'd be pessimistic thinking. *shrug* I think you should have a chat with him, sit down and really talk about it, without getting angry/accusing each other. really find out WHY he wants everything to be 50/50, it can't just be about the money. edit; oops, you posted before me! seems like you guys already had a talk, so it's about him wanting you to be self-sufficient; which seems like he doesn't want to be depended on, doesn't want to throw his lots together with you (a little). he seems committed enough to move in, but still holding up a barrier of 'yours' vs 'his'. it isn't wrong, but not the way I like relationships to go, and neither do you it seems. I mean, the way I see it, if I'm life-partners with someone, what's mine is his and vice-versa. maybe today he makes more, but tomorrow I will. or maybe I compensate in minute, everyday details; but the point is, we all stop counting. it's like, if I get him a glass of water he suddenly has to get me a glass of water too, or we're not 'even'?? I don't like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenie86 Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 Yea, something just bothers me about it. I understand wanting everyone to be self-sufficient, and I want to be self-sufficient as well (and right now, I am). I understand him not wanting to invest too much money right now, since we just started dating, and he did say "marriage is extremely different" and in that case "we'd do what we need to survive" (not sure what that means). With my first serious bf, I paid for everything for a long time (and it did irritate me when he expected it ALWAYS) but I also paid for things like a plane ticket when he didn't have the money, and I never expected the money back. At the same time, when he started making a lot more than I did and refused to spend money on me, it irritated me. When I had more, I'd give more, and vice versa. Now, he might always make more than me, which I guess isn't fair because he'd always be paying more? I don't know, something about it rubs me the wrong way, I'm not even sure what. I want to figure out now if it's a deal-breaker because we are long-distance for now, and I don't want to move to be with him if this is going to become a bigger issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velvette Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 just in my opinion (and I don't claim to be a psychologist or anything!), it seems like he isn't sure he wants to marry you yet. but you want him to think he will, even if he won't later on; since that's what love is supposed to make you: careless, optimistic, desperate (in a way!). because it seems, when you date, you give it your all, at least financially. but it could just take him longer to let down his guard; perhaps he was used in the past, or just has a more cautious personality. you said he was frugal, that could be part of it too. honestly it would rub me the wrong way too, but I don't know what to advise in this situation. because he doesn't seem like a bad guy, just with a different idea on finances. I do think though, that you shouldn't make the move until he's sure you're "the one". although that's difficult, since he needs to be around you to decide... ahhhh. it just seems so unfair, because you're the one who has to move over there, who has to be the vulnerable one so he can better decide on marriage. IDK, tough situation. maybe first find out what he means by "marriage is extremely different"? because it's not. marriage is still just a partnership, only with a piece of paper. how serious a relationship is, is how serious the couple makes it. marriage or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DN Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 So he has agreed that in the event of you both (you said "we") wanted a more expensive place he would pay considerably more than you - $400 more according to your scenario which is half as much again as you would be paying. But you aren't satisfied with that because it isn't as much in percentage terms. So the basis for your discontent is that you want him to subsidise even more of your share of a place you both would want to live than he does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophie274 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I think that in a relationship where there are big differences it income, it makes a lot more sense for the partners to alternate paying for dates that they plan - so that each can pay for dates that are affordable by his/her income. Splitting 50/50 is not fair, in my opinion, because the higher-earning partner's lifestyle is likely going to put a big strain on the lower-earning partner's wallet. So for example, when it's his "turn", if he wants to go out to a fancy restaurant or an expensive concert, great. Then, when it's your turn, you can organize cheaper activities - picnic, hiking, movies, special events going on in town, cooking in at home, etc ... It's easy for the person with more money to suggest expensive activities, and then get upset when the other can't afford their half of the activity ... but it's really not fair because it puts the lower-earning person in a very uncomfortable position. I think you need to be clear about what your budget is, and ask that you two go on dates that are within your budget - and let him know that you won't be able to afford more expensive dates. If he wants to go more expensive places and cover the difference, great. If not, that's great too, you two can just go on cheap dates. When I hang out with my sister and her friends, all of whom make a lot more money than me, I generally let my sister know what I can afford and ask her to organize things in my price range. Sometimes she does, and sometimes she says she realizes I can't afford it and she'll treat me to the difference. I think the same works very well in a romantic relationship. As far as travel expenses because of the long-distance relationship, I think you should each pay for your tickets - and then fly to see each other as often as your finances will allow. That means that you might only be able to afford a trip every 6 months, and he might be able to fly out every month. If he wants to see you more often but doesn't want to fly, then he could offer to cover your ticket or help you with the cost. That's what seems fair to me. In terms of living together - if that were to happen - I think you need to let him know what your budget is and how much you're willing to pay for rent. Either the two of you can get a place that fits your budget (say it's 600, you find a place that costs 1200 and split it down the middle), or he can decide he'd like to live somewhere a little nicer and covers the difference (let's say the place is 2000, you pay your 600 and he pays 1400). You shouldn't have to squeeze yourself because he can afford a more expensive lifestyle, and he can either meet you at your price point or, if he wants something more luxurious, cover the difference. I dated a man once when I was a student, and had basically zero income, and he was making several hundred thousand dollars. I did pay for dates, absolutely - but things like going out for brunch, coffee, making breakfast and dinner for him, going out to movies ... When he invited me to go to the opera and then go out for champagne afterwards, no, I didn't even offer, because there was NO WAY I could afford it (which he knew very well) and I wasn't going to bankrupt myself to join him on an expensive activity of his choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenie86 Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 well, we are in very early stages (just two months of dating) and also very young (24 and 25). Neither one of us wants to get married for another 4-5 years, but I think we both see this as a potentially serious relationship (not ready to consider it marriage-potential yet, but we can talk about 'if we were to get married hypothetically'). We are both equally committed to each other as far as I can tell-- sometimes I think he is a bit more so, but you're right that I would need to be the one to be sure enough to move to him. I don't want to move just for him, and he doesn't want that either. The city he recently moved to is one I have considered moving to anyway, and I have other friends there, so it wouldn't be just for him, but he would definitely be a part of it. I think him being generally frugal is definitely a part of it; he lives below his means and doesn't like to spend money in general. I think those are good traits and I am not an extravagant spender either, but I don't mind spending an appropriate amount when I have an income. Honestly, up til now he has shouldered the vast majority of our relationship costs. He is definitely a good guy and extremely sweet; we never fight and I trust him completely. I think the reason this is such an issue for me/upsets me so much is partly because I equate him spending money on me to taking care of me in a way, so not wanting to makes me feel like he doesn't want to care for me in that way. When we talked about this initially I was crying, and didn't know why, and he didn't understand why, but I think that is the bigger issue for me. should we just keep talking about it? I don't want to break up, but I know I won't change his mind... it seems like such a stupid issue to break up over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DN Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I think the reason this is such an issue for me/upsets me so much is partly because I equate him spending money on me to taking care of me in a way, How do you take care of him? You do need to be careful here because you are going to appear as a dependant for life on him if he were to consider marrying you and that is not a particularly attractive prospect for a guy who thinks the way he seems to. He wants a partner while you want a provider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenie86 Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 I think alternating who pays on dates is a good idea. Right now we are splitting down the middle, which I find somewhat unromantic .. and yea I think it's a good sign that he doesn't expect me to live above my lifestyle and if he wants to, he will split the difference. That makes sense to me because I also understand that I shouldn't get a nicer apartment/dinners/vacations/whatever just because I'm dating a guy who makes more money , unless he also wants that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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