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here is the deal, she came over and we watched the game. from like 9 to 2am. we talked a little. And i got the sense that people are judging her for even hanging out with me. Her family and friends. And i just like i got the feeling or i get the feeling that she is "in to me" but because it was my twin she just dated etc, that she has to worry about his feelings and all of that. I mean she made it seem like people "jumped" on ehr for just "hanging out" with me.



Shes worth it, she really is, but how do i overcome THIS. I mean she is so worth it, i just, and the thing is, when she gets really "into" me she starts getting short with her answers. When i start showing i understand and what not. And she loses her train of thought. we kinda had a long talk after the game, just about her past relatiosnhip problems, i asked what she was looking for, implied i would be different, i even said "if we were together" * * * * like that, showed I understood. She got up to leave, told her to "text me" when she got home and she started wondering if she even had her phone or if she left it. its like. She started playing with some random school book i had lying around and almost took it with her. I dont even think it is because she is nervous.


It just seems like i have an effect on her that she i dont know. My gut, if you asked me, my GUT says shes falling for me. But like she doesnt want to? or doesnt think she should? i dont know,

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It sounds like you missed multiple opportunities to go for that all important first kiss. You need to lead this, remember? Don't let her mind wander and overthink. That's why she occasionally loses her train of thought. She's waiting for you to take the lead. If you would have kissed her in that moment, you would have reassured her that you are into her and don't give a damn what other people think. That's what she needed.

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It sounds like you missed multiple opportunities to go for that all important first kiss. You need to lead this, remember? Don't let her mind wander and overthink. That's why she occasionally loses her train of thought. She's waiting for you to take the lead. If you would have kissed her in that moment, you would have reassured her that you are into her and don't give a damn what other people think. That's what she needed.


I feel like you are right, but as a guy, im logical, like, are words not reassuring? Is that fact that I am putting up with bull * * * * I probably shouldnt have to not reassuring? I mean, i went through as mmuch hell as ANYONE when she started dating my twin, I just didnt let it shake me, but i mean in reality, she should be off limits and to be honest, i have no reason to even be "friends" with her after all that happened, i mean the fact that I am here, at least to me, should be rassuring enough. And I dont even say that with like pent up aggression or hurt feelings, I am over that, but to me, logically, the fact taht I am still around her and willing to listen and understand her, is that not reassurance enough for her to let down her guard a little? Is she?



I basically TOLD her we are going to a movie tonight and she said lets work out the details ASAP so it actually happens. I also implied dinner, but she is in one of those "health" kicks, like wants to eat healthy, but I still convinced her we will find something. As I told her, or i tried to, she should worry about hurting HIS feelings, he didnt care about hers she has no responsibility to him now and worrying about that is silly. This was last night though. I kinda said goodnight via text on that note and then i get a text message from her this morning randomly, i think she just wanted me to respond orsomething i dont know because it was a very uneeded text, but i loved it you know. She looked so amazing last night, and I try to give sincere compliments but its tough when i notice all of these little things about her and they all add up to the amazing person I spend time with. Like, anyone can see she is gorgeous, or atleast she is to me, but spending time with her I get to know all of the little stuff.


I mean i found it so cute how she got worked up during the game. stuff like that. I dont know. i mean the movie is at 845 tonight. I mean when we talked yesterday it almost seemed lie she has been talking to her family/friends about me and they make her feel "weird" about it. I told her, ill talk to whomever, I really dont care, I am not my twin you know.


What is hard for me, and why i almost want to ASK before I kiss her, isnt the fact that I am insecure or lack confidence. To me, it doesnt matter how many friends she has or wahtever you know, because I am the one she is spending time with, I am far from a pushover and far from being a wuss. I mean, i will buy her things and do stuff for her, little things, thoughtful things, because seeing her happy makes me happy and like, if the money at the time isnt an issue why wouldnt I? I do not put myself out for her. I tried to tell her, I do what I want, i wouldnt do things for her if they in some way did not make me happy and I mean that. It is so self centered but its true. And I dont mind asking her opinion on things or taking her advice because i dont feel lie it emasculates me in the least, i am very easy going and the thing is, so is she, I wanted to tell her, or ask her, last night, how ANYONE could * * * * up a relationship with her, she is so easy to talk to get along wtih, shes amusing, I enjoy listening to her, the way she tells stories etc. i love her independence and I think it is crucial. I mean we talked about "relationships" in general and like I said I set up scenarios "if we were together" and she never questioned that portion, never argued anythign really either. I told her and I mean it, that I dont want things from her, i dont keep score, I want things WITH her. So my apprehension when it comes to making a move or kissing her or whatever is not really on my end. I want her to be COMFORTABLE, i dont want to feel like I am forcing her into something, i dont want to start a relationship on rocky ground or maybe because I got her emotionally worked up. Ive been in neurotic relationships and it sucks.


I dont want to make out, sleep with her, whatever, and have her wake up in the morning thinking of the reasons why she shouldnt or why it wouldnt work, being judged, my paretns hating her, etc. I feel like I want that stuff worked out before we even enter the relationship and I am TOTALLY willing and able to do all that, work on that, i just, i mean, I need to know how to reassure her, granted at this point I think kissing or sensual touch is the only thing I really havent tried. I almost feel like the only way i could be sure she is 100% ready is if she makes a move but I know she wont. I mean im not, i know i come with family drama and i understand the implications for dating me after my twin and i can deal with all of that for us, i am VERY secure because at this point in my life, I know what I want, career wise and all of that, i just need her to trust me? It almost seems like she wants to, or has thought about it, but the fact taht he is my twin and maybe how it would affect him(even though she reassured me many times last night taht they were through) and how people would look at her, is keeping it "platonic". i am trying to take the lead but i dont want to put her through "this" if shes not ready yet?

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I will also add, that she had a sports jersey on, with a shirt underneath, second she got to my place she took the shirt underneath off and just had the jersey on. Her bra straps were exposed on her upper/backside shoulders as the jeresy is big. It was so sexy.

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i guess i just want to know she will be receptive, not grossed out, etc. That rejection would kill me, because then id probably lose a friend too, the only person I really know here(I just moved for an internship, she happened to be here for grad school).


I guess for me, id like to be reassured that she would be receptive, but i know that if shes confused about it, if she enjoys it, the secon dshe talks to her friends they will tell her its awkward and all of that, that stings.

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ok well here is the thing and this is what i dont understand. i went over there to watch a football game as she got ready to go to a "work party". She was straightening her hair and all of that. I had bought her wine to bring to her friends(her friend(lesbian) just broke up with her girlfriend) and I figured whatever, relationship breakups suck, if they are going over to make her feel better, she should bring something, wine works. I also had boughten this girl a t-shirt of her favorite team while i was out(the absolutely SUCKIEST part of being in love is everytime I go shoppping i see things that I know she will love. Now if I dont have th emoney I dont get it, i dont do things for her for that simple fact, ill buy it for her if I can afford it, girlfriend or not, you know? I am very frugal, so it is only money i can afford to spend). So she was getting ready and I was kinda upset because I wanted her to come over tonight cause I just love spending time with her. Anyways, since her team was playing mine and I fully expected her team to win, I was going to give her the shirt after to laugh it off. I am a very easy going guy. Anyways since I didnt want to sit around and watch her "get ready" for this because she looked absolutely beautiful etc, i was like "Nah, im gonnna get going, let you get ready, have fun, here I got you this" Tossed her the shirt. She playfully told me not to buy her anything, but she was NOT insistant on paying me back at all, and seemed rather almost taken aback? Anyways, on my way out I was like, "You look great by the way" and shut the door. About and hour or so later, I get a text from her that said the plans were cancelled(whether or not they really were I dont know) and she asked me if I wanted to hang out.


so we did. She came over and we watched the OTHER game(football in the pm to hockey) and we talked almost the WHOLE time. We had some wine, and then i drove her home. Again, she was playing with the glass, her mouth, etc. we talked about relationships a little, we talked about everything. Made some jokes about her past boyfriend(my twin), but nothing sexually. It was me just figuring out what he did wrong etc and then I would say i am the opposite(which is actually true), but it was a discussion, it wasnt like she was venting and it didnt seem like she needed it. I kinda brought it up, almost. But a lot of the discussion was on other thing, like it is so easy to talk to her about everythign and anything and i KNOW she feels the same way about me.


So then on the drive home I told her she is "great" And that I said "I have no idea how anyone could ever screw up a relationship with you, you are so easy to talk to, so fun". she said 'i will probably be single for the next 5 years, i feel like i should just date to find out what i like". By then we were at her place so I let her go. First off, she was a tad drunk, 3 glasses of wine in, secondly that doesnt mae sense because she DOESNT date. Like guys OR girls. When she isnt at work or school she is with me. She sent me a text message a few nights ago saying she is still getting over my twin, and when i implied she may get back together she said she is in no way going to try and rekindle anything etc. She also said she is really glad I am here, she thanked me for being there for her and said shed probably have gone crazy at this point if I wasnt.


She gives me opportunities to kiss her I guess. But i dont because i dont know where she is emotionally. She drinks, loosens up but its like, i dont know. She completely * * * * s with my head man. shes so gorgeous to me so hot. But she is so confused, has been in bad relationships that she wont admit messed with her head when it comes to men etc


and its just im dying so hard to kiss her. I am DYING, she has no idea how gorgeous she is to me. Like I can say it but she truly doesnt know. how much i love her. Its not about me buying her stuff or any of that. I dont care, i dont feel like she "owes me" i dont keep score like that, I am just dying to hold her, kiss her. she i mean let me touch her face no problem on friday(not in a kissing way but), we shared a drink and popcorn at the movies friday. i dont get it.


When she is drunk she texts me, when she is in trouble or bored, she texts me. I compliment her on her looks and other things, what more do I have to do? why would SHE not do or say ANYTHING to insinuate she wants me to kiss her or something, what do I need to see/hear to know its ok? I dont want to lose this friendship if I am wrong.


The thing is its not like I have no other options. I could be dating a few other girls if I want, but this girl is just PERFECT. I mean she has her flaws, but you know, i dont know how to explain it

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And my whole thing with this friend zone thing is, Friends dont spend as much time together as we do. They just dont. Even my guy friends and I when I lived near them didnt. She only spends time on the weekends with her friends from work. We spend 5 or 6 out of 7 days doing something together. I dont talk to her about other girls, nor does she ask me about other girls/my dating life. The only time she ever asks is if I imply I have a date later. She TRUSTS me, and she has told me stuff I know she hasnt told her friends. I know she is comfortable with kissing and all of that. maybe its me, maybe im not the comfortable one, but i dotn want to "practice" going in for a kiss with girls I dont care about. ive done it before, ive had relationships, just something about this girl, makes me overthink everything. The prospect of losing what I hav ewith her now, like ive never ever been happier than I am spending time with her, and yes I want, i yearn, im dying for more, like the prospect of "being wrong" and going for a kiss and losing even what I have now is killing me too.


Im in like this purgatory of happiness then when she leaves sadness and part of me thinks she feels a little bit of this sadness when we depart too, maybe thats why she texts me randomly etc and if she does, logically that tells me "im in" but, i dont know. Someone needs to set me straight here lol, not a guarantee, but logically breakdown or something that this will work out? Because i just feel like writing all of this, the answer is almost obvious that i hsould kiss her, but I am biased and im pessimistic because of being shut down by her before or wahtever so having reinforcement helps? And it kills me because she has the defense, she could just be like "we are just friends" after I kiss her. Or whatever. And thats her out, im the one who is vulnerable in the whole damn thing and signs or not, she would just play ignorant to it all if I told her she was giving me all the nonverbal and all of that. Right or wrong, i can't tell her how she feels, i may be right, but she could just deny it and that is what im afraid of?

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Dude, if you want more, you only have one option here. She's giving you all the signs she's going to give you. She is NOT going to kiss you. You have to kiss her. Just like asking a woman for a first date, women want a man able to take that risk. The vast majority of the time, that's the way it works.


Have you been edging closer into her personal space? That will give you even more great feedback. Snuggle on a couch and watch a movie, remember? If you're that apprehensive about it, share some wine first. Then when you look into her eyes, lean in slowly. If she balks, you can blame the alcohol and continue as friends. But, if she smiles...

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Well, we did have wine on Sunday night. As I said, I had bought her the one for her friend but she came over here instead and we drank some and I had some white wine here already. I had that. I mean we touch, she was laying on my bed last night propped up with pillows against the wall watching a movie. There doesnt seem to be any personal space issues, as ill lean in to look at her laptop or vice versa. I am ASSUMING all of the signs are good.


At the same time, its like anytime we are watching soemthing and there is a sex scene or something, she always comments "so gross" or something like that. And she seems to be worried about like being labeled a " * * * * * " or whatever(not in regards to me, just in general, i think its her opinion on women, she sees the bias etc, but doesnt ever want to be put close to that catagory, too much self respect), but she doesnt sleep around what so ever.


LIke there seems to be no "personal space" almost, like we can get close and its not like she FLINCHES away or anything like that. Ive touched her back to guide her into places, ive touched her shoulder, her neck/cheek.


its weird, because any guy she mentions that she liked or likes she INSTANTLY says has a girlfriend and that she would never go after a guy with a girlfriend(but again, we never really talk about that, usually, its like a 30 second thing, its not like she talks about these guys with me at all, or girls for that matter) or if she mentiones a girl she finds attractive, she follows up by claiming she isnt a lesbian and will most likely end up with a man etc etc.


I want to kiss her. I really do, i mean again, the personal space thing isnt an issue as far as her or i pulling away, that comfortability is there. The cuddling etc is a little weird cause i dont know how to go "about" it. im not so much afraid as not knowing like how. I suppose I could just go in for a kiss, but even then, not exactlly used to having nerves before I do that, because usually i dont care as much about the girl as I do her. she is going to visit her family tomorrow til monday, so I am hoping it will give her time to talk with her friends and family about me and how she feels about me etc.


We have also talked about taking a 8 hour road trip and mini vacation(weekend stay) to watch our sports teams play each other(boht out of town teams). She usually is the one texting me first in the morning/day. She even picked out stuff for my apartment, well i "included" her(i asked her what she liked and got it, they were trivial things and quite frankly im very relaxed when it comes to that). That seemed to make her happy, i dont now.


But you HONESTLY believe she is throwing out hints/signs that she wants me to kiss her/up the intimacy despite things she has said in the past etc? Thats where I am stuck, if she never said anything in the past(a month or so ago) and never dated who she dated, this feels like a no brainer to me.

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now this is what i mean and this is why im confused. We go out to a "broadway" play at some performing arts center yesterday, just teh two of us. She made the occasional quick stops to the bathroom(my guess is to "tidy" up her look(even though she didnt need it)) and teh play was great. It was a musical/romance/comedy and we really enjoyed it. The whole time she was nervously playing with her hands. I could see out of the corner of my eye(the guy sitting in front of me had his head in my way so I wasnt focusing too much on the play more so the song/jokes), she leaned in a few times, we both did, to apply the jokes we heard to like inside jokes b/w ourselves. After, and this was her choosing, we went to some restaurant where you order all these different small plates of food and share it. Just the two of us. At first we sat at the bar area but we were both turned towards each other. She was making more eye contact and all of that Now that i think about it, the whole night she was laughing more at my silly jokes. I moved our seats to a table when one cleared up and we both got drinks, she seemed to like make even more eye contact, seem even more interested in me after a beer or so. like really. everything but the touching.


That also said, this place was kind of a romatic place. There was one huge group of im guessing friends/double daters and the rest were couples. like it was so obvious. Then she said she wanted a cupcake, so we shared a cupcake. 1 cupcake, 2 spoons. All her doing. Get back to her place, she said she had to study but would do it in the morning. I legit had stuff to do for work, so I said goodnight i mean whatever, very awkwardly, she did too(I paid for the meal, it was 60 dollar tab). Then i say "you will probably find a reason to text me tomorrow" and she agreed. i get home and i texted her something about a "turn off" and she said "Im not trying to turn you on, dont want you to get the wrong idea" or something along those lines. And I was just like 'listen, its not about the money or any of that, yes I really want to kiss you, etc, but you have a lot of emotional stuff going on and I dont want to add to it........" and I added a little more about being there for her and having a safe trip home, whatever. I didnt get a response to that text, but i didnt expect one. Its like she wants me, but then she thinks about all the other stuff and she doesnt think she should want me? Because im sorry, you do not allow me or even TAKE me to a place like that, share food like we did with the intention of not giving me the wrong idea. I gave her full choice, she could have said McDonalds, a dive bar, diner, but she said this place


I dotn even care about th emoney, i would have dropped that anyway, no big deal, but this is why i am doing a double take. like i dont understand her logic at all. She even tried my drink I dont get it. weve been together sunday monday and tuesday, probably be together the rest of this week too if not for her going to visit family and I GUARANTEE she will text me a few times while away Maybe she was upset I didnt stay, but I couldnt, I told her in teh text i wanted to, but i really really couldnt, i had the work to do

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ya, she had called me dude or man. once and I just said it was a turnoff, but it was an awkward goodbye. like again I didn't want her to think I was leaving her high and dry, if I legit didn't need to do work I would have stayed


the emotional thing is true though. in all honesty. I mean it doesn't bother me but I'm sure even you have figured out that's kinda what makes me hesitant. yes it is on her court. I'm not going to text her, she went home til Sunday anyway. I just feel like she is going through a mini crisis on who she is what she wants etc and I am here to help because I remember who she was, we have been friends since middle school, not CLOSE friends but friends. I think she finds comfort a different kind of comfort in me that keeps her hanging out withme but makes her nervous like she doesn't think she should love me cause of being judged. I mean it is in her court I guess, I've been great about everything waiting etc.


to me she is worth this because I've never felt as happy/complete as I do around her. sans intimacy, last night was Amazing.


what do you think? now she atleast knows to expect a Lisa but,

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I can add that she remembers stuff i tell her about other "dates" with other "girls". she said a good first date for her would be like Pizza. I found that funny because the first time i ever felt like what we did was a "date" was when she insisted we get Pizza. She was more dressed up than usual and all of that. That was a few weeks ago. And she always seems concerned with what I did when im not with her. It is also clear she pays attention to my social network(facebook) because she knew of the plans I had for thursday. I mean i enjoy that, im glad she is interested in me and my plans like that because thats a good thing to me at least. Its not like i am trying hard to be cryptic. And she remembered/s A LOT more about me from when we were younger than I give her credit for, like she paid attention to some silly things i wore etc whne we were younger.


all of this stuff being good as far as showing shesinterested but............



Let me also add, when i said those things via text, it was because I was a little buzzed from the scotch i had at dinner, not to mention THOROUGHLY confused based on all of the "good" signals she was sending me. Body language wise, the restaurant. Everything.

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Well, it sounds like the "Im not trying to turn you on," was just a flip response to your comment that you didn't like being called dude or man. I wouldn't over think that one. Again, she's away for a few days and you sent her that text. You've given her a lot to think about and she has a different environment to step back and do just that. Wait and see what she comes back with.

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I understand. Would you agree that based on everything, including last nights endeavors, that we have done that she is interested? I just dont see her logic by doing things like that with me if she wanted to "be friends", not to mention she has heard that i have feelings for her(a few months ago) Friends dont spend as much time together as we have been. you know?


My guess is she will text me but not address that directly. probably about other things. Thats the type of girl she is, shy like that. Or appears to be.


I mean i havent bared my soul to her or whatever, but like i notice so many little things about her and they are so cute/precious, but like i cant tell her that stuff now even though I want to. Just little things that she does that are just so great. I wont bare my soul to her, i cant do that anymore. I dont think she needs/wants that type of guy anyway, not that I am that guy, but i feel like she sees that type of honesty as a sign of clingy/neediness, when i would just mean it like as endearing. I am far from clingy/needy, and far from a "wuss". But id like her to know i notice these things, i guess one step at a time, shes just f'ing with my head haha, but i love it in a cruel way.

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The problem is I am so in love with her. Its weird. Like, friends(not close friends) can even see it. They said they way i talk about her is obvious. I mean, i try to hate her but i cant. I should, she dated my twin for f's sake, and if there was a single bone in my body that could hate her for it i would, but even before she dated him i felt this. Its a curse, but at the same time, when I am with her, even without the intimacy that I long for, nothing else matters. I feel like i can do anything, this past month, living here, hanging out with her, spending time with her, ive been walking around euphoric, absolutely, unadulterated, happy. If there was any doubt to life, any question ive ever had as to "what is life all about", it doesnt matter when im with her. when im with her, it just feels like time is obsolete.


Ive dated other girls, i mean when she was dating my brother i really had no choice, and all i could think about was her. But not in a jealous way, it had nothing to do with who she was with. And i felt like an * * * * * * * for dating these girls and thinking about someone else, so much so that i would go out of my way to please these other girls, but i never, i made sure they never got emotionally attached to me. And i still felt like a * * * * * . I didnt want to do that to others. And i know this girl isnt perfect, i know she has her flaws, everyone does, i wish i could say this was an infatuation, but I actually KNOW a lot about her, ive gotten to know her more than I could have ever dreamed. Ive learned about her family, her goals, her dreams, her hopes for the future and i love it. And the thing is, she is so easy to talk to, i dont feel like i have to keep anythign from her. Not that i have many secrets. And i feel like i can trust her, and i can literally see myself spending the rest of my life with her, even though I wouldnt put that on her or myself at this young of an age(22). I want to have a career set(close) and I want to see her reach her goals. Before i even think about that, but i legit have that type of feeling with this girl, that i havent with others and that kinda scares me, cause i have tried with my fair share of women.


I mean its so great, i can tell the mood she is in simply by her face. Her expressions. I love it. And i could never tell her all of this, especially now, itd be overwhelming, but i dont want her to think shes some "goal" for me. Im not trying to prove anything to anyone, everything just feels right with her, almost surreal. Even when i drink(a little tipsy now) i dont fantasize about the Scarlett Johannsons, or Jessica Albas or whomever the flavor of the week is, i just think about her, and how i can make her smile. I am a happy guy, optimistic and very easy going, but part of what makes me happy is seeing her happy. Im not just saying that, it really does. And the thing is, i dont go out of my way to please her or any of that, she isnt high maintenance, shes so kind hearted, so loving of people in general and she has so much potential to do whatever she wants and i see it, so being there for her is easy for me, because i want to. It makes ME happy, i feel like it is SO self centered, doing things for her, because i get so much joy out of it as well. I think i get more joy out of it than her.


Even now, i know shes home with her family and that makes me happy because i really think she needed it. I really do. I dont know. I ahte this feeling because you are right, the ball is kinda in her court. I wish this were just a crush or infatuation. Itd be easy to just say "f it", but i cherish this girl more than anything, and I really know WHO she is. I dont know. I am kinda buzzed, and i dont know, it just sucks, having these feelings and not being able to share them with her through a kiss or words for fear of rejection. so instead, i buy her stuff, which is fine, but to be able to make her FEEL this, thats what I want, through touch, through holding her, but thats where i tense up, because i dont want to hurt her either

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Oh, DVR, like recording a show. Like Tivo or whatever. I have Direct TV and it came with DVR so I can set it to record TV programs and ive been recording the shows we like. She just mentioned another.


ya, i suppose no response to that is a good thing. I dont know, i just knew she would end up texting me me you know? now shes giving me her old furniture. I just dont know what she wants?

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I think you have a good idea - remember all the signs? Let her think while she's away and wait til she gets back.


Ya, I guess thats all I can do right now. I have a friend visiting this weekend so that will keep me busy while she is away. Im sure she will probably be texting me tonight, our teams are playing each other and she has already told me she was going to be watching from the comfort of her own home.


I just wish she would figure it out. I mean she cant expect me to make a move if she keeps giving off all of these signs and then says what she says via text or whatever. Its not even about me buying her dinner or whatever, it was the TYPE of meal, how the evening felt. And I know she legit has emotional stuff going on which is why my text said "I want to kiss you, etc, but you just have a lot of emotional stuff going on and I dont want to add to it" because that is the truth, i suppose it is good she didnt address it and I think it is clear she is thinking of me while she is there, what my apartment needs etc.


my heart tells me she wants 'me' and I dont even mean that in the sexual sense, just that she wants more you know.

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