THIS is why you should never give anyone your passwords!!

[DN]

I wonder if people would think that tampering with his career (which isn't really what she did, she just blew a job opportunity for him) would be justified if he had given her herpes or AIDS.

Yes, she did tamper with his career and it still would not be justified. To use the old cliche: two wrongs don't make a right.

[laura40]

Wow, serious stuff.

 

I can't believe she did that.... I mean I understand he cheated on her and she was obviously upset but what she did is just like crazy!

 

Don't ever give passwords out! I know of people who log into their other halves emails and facebook accounts because they know their passwords and snoop around!

[banal]

I don't even think it's justified to break people's possessions after a break up even if there was cheating.

 

In this case, I would be amazed if there was not some crime or other that she committed here.

 

She definitely committed a crime - identity theft and fraud.

[holdonnow]

Yes, she did tamper with his career

 

As the Allman Brothers once said, You can't lose what you never had.

 

I don't think causing someone to not get hired is tampering with their CAREER. Messing with a job opportunity, yes, but a job is not necessarily a career, especially if it's a job he didn't even technically have. If he had already been employed for 12 years with his employer and was planning on retiring from that same company or outfit, then yes, she would have tampered with his career. The only reason I say this is because in my experience, I see a huge difference between the unemployed, people who just work at anything they can get for a paycheck (and sometimes don't even get benefits), and someone like my boyfriend who is career military and has been climbing the ranks in his profession for well over a decade and is slated to retire with full benefits well before he hits 40 - because he is 100% dedicated to what he does and has gone through numerous deployments, has given and received endless training worth many thousands of dollars, has advanced his private education for the benefit of his job, and endured untold hardships being away from his family and breaking his back so that he, his colleagues, and his organization can succeed. THAT is a career - he's not just physically invested, he's emotionally invested. It's like a marriage. It's not something you can just go get another one of a few months later.

 

Because the original letter doesn't describe what her boyfriend was doing or who he was going to be working for, for all we know he could have gotten a job offer to be a WalMart greeter, which I think people can agree isn't exactly a career. Everyone assumes that she caused him this huge loss but the letter doesn't say that. He could be flipping burgers for all we know.

 

and it still would not be justified. To use the old cliche: two wrongs don't make a right.

 

I don't disagree with that but she certainly would not lack sympathetic support if the story included a twist on her personal health and was worded differently. You can argue that retaliation/revenge are always in every situation wrong, but the fact that it happens so often indicates that not everyone would necessarily think so, even if they say so in public. "I caused my boyfriend to lose a job as a shopping cart collector at Target because I found out he was sleeping with 23 other women and gave me AIDS" somehow does not evoke the same emotional response as "I tampered with his email and tanked his career because he cheated."

 

But no, I don't condone revenge; it's an unhealthy thing to do for the self if one has been wronged. Forgiveness and moving on are the most healthy response.

[annie24]

well, whether he was going to be a Kmart greeter or an investment banker, either way, it's 4 months without a paycheck which can be pretty bad! Even if he didn't start the job just yet, it was still a job he 'had.' I'm in the same boat - where I have a job that i will move to in a few months, not right now. I HOPE nothing ever happens to jeapordize that!!

[DN]

Sorry but I find your reasoning completely bizarre.

[banal]

"About two years ago my then-boyfriend got a job offer at a large, global company for nearly a 40 percent pay raise. He was contractually obliged to give a month's notice at his old job and during that time I found out he cheated on me, amongst other things. "

 

Well, it's implied that this is a good job. Yeah, Walmart is a large, global company, but unless he was waiting tables without tips, it's hard for minimum wage to be a 40% bump over anyone's salary.

[holdonnow]

DN - well, I don't know how to make myself more clear, suffice it to say that you may schlupp yourself to a job digging runoff ditches day in and day out for a few peanuts to pay your rent and put burgers on the table. This is not a career. A career and a job are different things.

 

Banal - Starbucks is a large global company and so is McDonald's. If he was caddying for tips at a local golf club, then getting hired as a janitor at said global companies might in fact be a 40% bump (personally I think the tone and subject of the letter implies immaturity on her part very likely due to youth, it would be just as fair to assume they're both too young to be senior investment bankers with Merril Lynch. We don't know. There isn't enough info in the original letter to imply that losing his job offer was a huge loss when in fact it might not be. He might very well have gone on to something better because of her. Point is, we don't know.

[holdonnow]

well, whether he was going to be a Kmart greeter or an investment banker, either way, it's 4 months without a paycheck which can be pretty bad!

 

I'm sure plenty of us have been unemployed for months at a time - perhaps old boy can ask the chick that he cheated with to support him till he gets back on his feet.

 

Even if he didn't start the job just yet, it was still a job he 'had.'

 

Not necessarily, I've worked in HR before where offers were extended pending background checks - which came back hinky and caused the offer to be withdrawn.

 

Good luck with your new job!

[DN]

Who are you to determine what is a career and what is a job? I find that both arrogant and elitist. Many people who have had menial jobs have parlayed that experience into jobs that pay millions or save lives or whatever they find worthwhile. Anyone can say what might have happened but the fact remains that a job offer was withdrawn probably because of these actions.

[OptomisticGirl]

I wonder if people would still classify this as not tampering with his career if it happened to THEM.

[annie24]

Not necessarily, I've worked in HR before where offers were extended pending background checks - which came back hinky and caused the offer to be withdrawn.

 

It's one thing to withdraw a job offer when you find something out bad during the background check..... it's another to get a job offer withdrawn based on false information given by a vengeful ex-gf!

 

job vs. career? who cares? it's a 4 month unemployment gap that didn't need to be there.

[greywolf]

Whenever I read things like this, it still shocks me because I really cannot understand why anyone would want to do anything like that. It just seems crazy.

[Seraphim]

Whenever I read things like this, it still shocks me because I really cannot understand why anyone would want to do anything like that. It just seems crazy.

 

Yup, it is pretty wacko. There are people who have been married for years that don't do anything like that. I think she is not as special and high and mighty as she thinks she is.

[Seraphim]

Who are you to determine what is a career and what is a job? I find that both arrogant and elitist. Many people who have had menial jobs have parlayed that experience into jobs that pay millions or save lives or whatever they find worthwhile. Anyone can say what might have happened but the fact remains that a job offer was withdrawn probably because of these actions.

 

I agree job/ career it is all relative and having a "career" does not make anyone more important than someone with a "job".

[holdonnow]

Who are you to determine what is a career and what is a job?

 

Why would you think that the fact that there is indeed a difference is determined by me? Google "difference between job and career," peruse the 48,400,000 results (such as link removed ) and don't even shoot the messenger.

 

I find that both arrogant and elitist.

 

I personally don't, then again I've had both jobs and a career, so perhaps it's just that your mileage varies?

 

Many people who have had menial jobs have parlayed that experience into jobs that pay millions or save lives or whatever they find worthwhile.

 

I wouldn't disagree with that, but it's irrelevant to the original point, isn't it? To say that the LW messed with her ex-boyfriend's CAREER is presumptous and not a statement that can be made without facts that weren't presented in the letter. We don't know that she messed with his career. We don't know that he has a career. We don't know if he's a corporate exec or a professional couch surfer who makes more money selling weed than he does at work.

 

Anyone can say what might have happened but the fact remains that a job offer was withdrawn probably because of these actions.

 

True, but no one really knows whether or not that's saying very much.

[holdonnow]

It's one thing to withdraw a job offer when you find something out bad during the background check..... it's another to get a job offer withdrawn based on false information given by a vengeful ex-gf!

 

job vs. career? who cares? it's a 4 month unemployment gap that didn't need to be there.

 

I wonder if the emotional pain of being cheated on lasts longer than 4 months. My guess is that it does. I suppose that didn't need to be there either.

 

Not that I condone the LW's actions - I don't, although as revenge it is a piece of art.

[Stay_home]

I can't see myself ever trying to ruin somebody's way to make a living because they cheated on me.

[annie24]

I would fantasize about it.... but not do it.

[Stay_home]

*Unlawful access to stored communications - Felony, punishable by imprisonment and/or fine*

*Electronic Mail harassment* - Misdemeanor

*Civil Suit for defamation of character*

*Civil Suit for emotional distress*

 

 

It doesn't matter whether it was a job, career, part-time work or not, it was still a means to make a living. So what we on the outside determine is a job, career, side-hussle, it doesn't matter. It was a legit opportunity to make a living and his name and reputation was slandered by illegal access to his email account. That is a crime.

 

If he was guaranteed the position and given a hire date and lost his job due to the occurrence of this email then he may be entitled to sue for another Civil Suit in "Lost Wages" since the email did infact cost him his job. That would only apply if he did infact have the position and was given a start date.

 

And obviously emotional distress is self-explanatory given the fact that this cost him his job and affected his ability to cover his living expenses and support himself. It might be a stretch on that Civil claim, but you never know.

 

* She cannot be charged with Fraud *

 

In order to be charged with Fraud it would have to be the intent to deprive the victim out of monetary and/or goods or services to which the person committing the act intended to receive such.

[DN]

We don't know what sort of career/job is involved here if you insist on there being a material difference. Perhaps if something similar happens to you one day you won't be quite so dismissive as to what is important to other people.

[annie24]

It doesn't matter whether it was a job, career, part-time work or not, it was still a means to make a living. So what we on the outside determine is a job, career, side-hussle, it doesn't matter. It was a legit opportunity to make a living and his name and reputation was slandered by illegal access to his email account. That is a crime.

 

agreed 100%!!!!!!

[holdonnow]

Annie: LOL! I would fantasize too...that's all I wonder here is that if anyone can possibly see where this girl was coming from. I dunno if there can be a spectrum of cheating - IE, would it be worse if it was over a long period of time with lots of different people? Quite honestly I think you should put the OP in the infidelity forum and see what happens. I think you'd get a range of responses that don't look like the ones in this forum.

 

It doesn't matter whether it was a job, career, part-time work or not, it was still a means to make a living.

 

The way I see it, he messed with her physical health (and possibly exposed her to lifelong or possibly fatal effects - considering that the majority of sexually active adults encounter an STD, it would be a stroke of dumb luck that he didn't give her something depending on the situation. If she had been my friend I'd have told her to charge him for the medical bill accompanying the necessary screening and treatments), she in turn messed with his finances, to a questionable degree. It appears that the people here and on Salon think that messing with finances is the ultimate wrong and that tampering with someone's health is negligible.

 

If he was guaranteed the position and given a hire date and lost his job due to the occurrence of this email then he may be entitled to sue for another Civil Suit in "Lost Wages" since the email did infact cost him his job. That would only apply if he did infact have the position and was given a start date.

 

And obviously emotional distress is self-explanatory given the fact that this cost him his job and affected his ability to cover his living expenses and support himself. It might be a stretch on that Civil claim, but you never know.

 

An emotional distress claim can only be upheld if the plaintiff can actually show damages. IE, "my doctor told me my anxiety was because of this job loss and I had to take Xanax for six months, here are my medical records."

 

As for suing her, good luck with that, it won't happen unless the company admits that the reason they fired him was on the basis of the email. They would never do that considering what they told him was that the job was no longer available - so to testify in this case would be to admit that they were lying. There's no way a company would ever want to get involved in a case like this - they'd avoid it like the plague so unless he has a written confession from her, he has no case.

[holdonnow]

We don't know what sort of career/job is involved here if you insist on there being a material difference.

 

Exactly. We don't know. That's what I have been saying. I think Prudence's response wasn't appropriate considering that she assumed that there was more harm done than she could have known (or lack thereof on the part of the LW). Her response triggered other people to respond in similar ways. What I saw is that she didn't read for content and inserted things that weren't there. I don't think that's acceptable but then again agony aunts are probably the last place a thinking person should go for advice.

 

Perhaps if something similar happens to you one day you won't be quite so dismissive as to what is important to other people.

 

I don't know why you think I'm being "dismissive," I think I have been clear enough about what I think about this case without you attributing feelings to me. If there is some question about what I think, feel free to ask.

[DN]

The way I see it, he messed with her physical health (and possibly exposed her to lifelong or possibly fatal effects - considering that the majority of sexually active adults encounter an STD, it would be a stroke of dumb luck that he didn't give her something depending on the situation. If she had been my friend I'd have told her to charge him for the medical bill accompanying the necessary screening and treatments), she in turn messed with his finances, to a questionable degree. It appears that the people here and on Salon think that messing with finances is the ultimate wrong and that tampering with someone's health is negligible.

You are comparing what he might have done to her health (without provable intent) compared to what she did do with malice and with intent to do harm.

 

Two wrongs don't make a right, particularly when they are on two different levels - it may be a cliche but it is still true nonetheless.

 

There comes a time when defending the indefensible becomes merely risible and arguing further with someone who does it becomes pointless.