Dating with different beliefs.

[pierre]

I've been dating this girl about 2.5 months now. I'm head over heels for her. I've been friends with her for a little over 5 years, with varying degrees of friendship through the years. Sometimes we hung out frequently throughout the week, sometimes we wouldn't have any contact for months. We recently came back into contact and I finally asked her on a date after years of wanting to. We even had a conversation and she asked me if I supposedly have liked her for so long, why I hadn't asked her out sooner, because I could've had her.

 

Either way, we spent the entire weekend together this weekend, as we had previously. A couple weeks ago we went to an Amusement park together and spent Fri, Sat, Sun together. Never gotten sick of each other, no fights, quarrels or anything of the sort. So this weekend we spent most of the time at my house. One day in bed together for basically 12 hours. Things were great. Then it came up, which I was wondering when it would inevitably.

 

It was Sunday morning and she had to leave by 10 to go to church. We were just playing the little cutesy games back and forth with each other and I would say, no just stay here with me and she kept saying, i cant, you should come with me. I myself, am an atheist. She is a christian and goes to church every week. This is something I've always known and was always partially why I was weary of dating her in the past. But until now, there has been no talk of it really and it hasn't been a problem. Her father isn't religious and her mother is very religious, so I figured there wouldn't be any problem.

 

The cutesy talk of wanting her to stay and for me to go with her seemed to start and be real on her end a bit. I personally don't mind what anyone wants to believe. If you are a christian, thats fine with me. I wont try to stop you from being one, I won't mock your religion, your beliefs are your beliefs. I just ask the same courtesy back.

 

She has been courteous of this and hasn't tried any converting or preaching to me. She kept saying that I should come with her to church. I kept saying, no, but thanks. It kept happening many times. She used the point that she just wants me to be with her and wants to include me in all aspects of her life. Fair enough, but sorry church is not the place for me. I thought that's where it would end. The she said "ok, well I'll just keep inviting you then".

 

This is when I got a little agitated. I'm being respectful of her beliefs, what she's doing etc. and she says outright that she's just going to keep inviting me. She said, "you don't have to come, but I'm going to keep inviting you. I don't go anywhere unless I'm invited so I want you to know you will be". I responded by saying thanks, but she wont need to ask, I'll go if I feel I'd like to, but she doesn't have to keep inviting me.

 

Since she used a point that part of it is she just wanted to spend time with me, I drove her there and went to the store for a bit while she was there. I picked her up and we went to lunch and had a great day after that.

 

This was always the aspect that I feared in trying to date her. It seems like it's ok. She isn't really forcing it on me, but in another way, it seems like she is. It's almost a guilt trip. I brought up and said what if there was some atheist meeting I was going to, would you come. Of course she said "sure, if you wanted me to, it's good to keep an open mind". I know she wouldn't try to make me go, saying you either become a christian or we cant date anymore.

 

Her previous bf of 2.5 years was also not religious, but was very mocking to the point where he told her she was stupid for believing in god etc. She had also dated other non christians and said that ultimately in one way or another, her religion seemed to be the determining factor in ending the relationship. It was always ended from the guy though. Being it either her unwillingness to do something (i.e. sex) or just her overall belief.

 

Again like I said, I feel anyone should be able to believe what they want and not be persecuted for it. There have been no problems with her beliefs or not doing anything. It's just like any other relationship I've had. We drink, go to parties, have sex, etc. much to the disbelief of some of my friends who know who she is and thought she was more of a goody goody fundie type.

 

Maybe I'm making too big of a deal out of this. She's just offering me to go and nothing else. It just bothers me that I said I dont want to go and she doesnt need to ask, yet she says she will continue to ask. And though I dont think there will be, it kind of makes me feel like maybe in the future it might be a bigger problem.

 

Any thoughts?

[Stay_home]

It could be an issue later down the road, but it doesn't seem to be now. If all she's inquiring upon is to asking if you wish to go, you can always tell her no. If she's certain that she's ok per her religion to date an atheist (obviously you don't mind) I wouldn't worry too much about it. You have a right to believe in what you want.

[Day_Walker]

It seems to me that this is a pattern for her. In general I think that two people with different beliefs can have a successful relationship but im weary in this case.

[tattoobunnie]

It's like going to the ballet, shopping for shoes or a poetry reading. If this girl is everything you wanted, and she treats you with great love and respect, think of each time that she asks you to attend church WITH HER like going to the ballet...It's kinda lame, you have no idea what is going on, you're falling asleep, but you're with her to support her, and because she asked.

 

And the fact that you are so resistent on even just going once...I don't think this has anything to do with your aethetic beliefs...it just might be you're not really into being there for her.

[jjcool00]

It's like going to the ballet, shopping for shoes or a poetry reading. If this girl is everything you wanted, and she treats you with great love and respect, think of each time that she asks you to attend church WITH HER like going to the ballet...It's kinda lame, you have no idea what is going on, you're falling asleep, but you're with her to support her, and because she asked.

 

And the fact that you are so resistent on even just going once...I don't think this has anything to do with your aethetic beliefs...it just might be you're not really into being there for her.

 

To further develop on that you don't have to be religious to attend church with her, just like she doesn't have to be a sports fan to go to a game with you... Part of growing up and being in a serious relationship is doing things you don't want to do... Compromise if it ever comes to it... doesn't mean you have to start believing in god but you can at least just deal with it to shut her up if everything else makes it worth it... ya know?

[Moontiger]

It's like going to the ballet, shopping for shoes or a poetry reading. If this girl is everything you wanted, and she treats you with great love and respect, think of each time that she asks you to attend church WITH HER like going to the ballet...It's kinda lame, you have no idea what is going on, you're falling asleep, but you're with her to support her, and because she asked.

 

And the fact that you are so resistent on even just going once...I don't think this has anything to do with your aethetic beliefs...it just might be you're not really into being there for her.

 

I disagree with this. Religion IMO is far different from seeing a ballet, going to a theater, shopping, etc. The OP's position seems very reasonable. I would feel the same way if I dated someone religious, I would feel I was being disrespecting their belief system if I attended a ceremony (in this case going to church) when I did not fully believe in it.

 

OP, To be asked the same question, week after week after week, even after making your position clear, is rude on her part IMO

 

Have you said anything to her to the effect of, "Thank you for inviting me. I understand your point of view here, church is just not for me but I glad to know I always have an open invitation from you."

[pierre]

I disagree with this. Religion IMO is far different from seeing a ballet, going to a theater, shopping, etc. The OP's position seems very reasonable. I would feel the same way if I dated someone religious, I would feel I was being disrespecting their belief system if I attended a ceremony (in this case going to church) when I did not fully believe in it.

 

OP, To be asked the same question, week after week after week, even after making your position clear, is rude on her part IMO

 

Have you said anything to her to the effect of, "Thank you for inviting me. I understand your point of view here, church is just not for me but I glad to know I always have an open invitation from you."

 

This is exactly what I'm thinking. It's not at all that I refuse to be there for her or that I don't want to be there for her. It's that I know my beliefs. I know that I don't feel comfortable sitting in a room going through the motions and acting like I believe these things. I feel that it's disrespectful to those that do believe. I have a hard enough time when I'm at her parents for dinner and they all hold hands and say grace. I just want to be respectful.

 

She believes, I don't. I respect that she believes those things. To each their own. I said to her that I understand I'm invited, but that I'm not going to go and she doesn't need to keep inviting me. Maybe it was a little rude, close minded or just plain uncaring. This is something that is very important to her and maybe she just wants me to know what it's all about, not necessarily believe it. I'm just not sure.

[pierre]

I disagree with this. Religion IMO is far different from seeing a ballet, going to a theater, shopping, etc. The OP's position seems very reasonable. I would feel the same way if I dated someone religious, I would feel I was being disrespecting their belief system if I attended a ceremony (in this case going to church) when I did not fully believe in it.

 

OP, To be asked the same question, week after week after week, even after making your position clear, is rude on her part IMO

 

Have you said anything to her to the effect of, "Thank you for inviting me. I understand your point of view here, church is just not for me but I glad to know I always have an open invitation from you."

 

This is exactly what I'm thinking. It's not at all that I refuse to be there for her or that I don't want to be there for her. It's that I know my beliefs. I know that I don't feel comfortable sitting in a room going through the motions and acting like I believe these things. I feel that it's disrespectful to those that do believe. I have a hard enough time when I'm at her parents for dinner and they all hold hands and say grace. I just want to be respectful.

 

She believes, I don't. I respect that she believes those things. To each their own. I said to her that I understand I'm invited, but that I'm not going to go and she doesn't need to keep inviting me. Maybe it was a little rude, close minded or just plain uncaring. This is something that is very important to her and maybe she just wants me to know what it's all about, not necessarily believe it. I'm just not sure.

[tattoobunnie]

If you truly don't believe in God, or any of it, why would you care about what they had to say? You wouldn't. And you don't get the point of church, I get that. To many, God is one thing, but church is all about community, family, and taking care and supporting each other. No one is asking you to be a Christian or religious. She's asking you to come to something she loves.

 

Either way, I've never seen it work out in the end with two people with completely different religious beliefs. I'm a big God lover, but I don't ever go to Church.

[pierre]

If you truly don't believe in God, or any of it, why would you care about what they had to say? You wouldn't. And you don't get the point of church, I get that. To many, God is one thing, but church is all about community, family, and taking care and supporting each other. No one is asking you to be a Christian or religious. She's asking you to come to something she loves.

 

Either way, I've never seen it work out in the end with two people with completely different religious beliefs. I'm a big God lover, but I don't ever go to Church.

 

Well, I care about her so obviously I would care about what she says and believes in. I might not believe it or feel the same way about it, but I don't know if it would be right of me to say, that's stupid, I don't care. I guess I need to maybe talk to her a little more and see why she wants me to go. What the intention of having me along would be.

 

And as I said earlier. Her mother is very religious and her father isn't religious and they've been married for 35 years, so obviously it can work.

[banal]

It can work of course as long as it's not a big deal to one party. In your case OP, I'd go with her to church because it would make her happy. I've been in the same spot before, an atheist who has been in relationships with Christian women, and they all wanted me to attend church with them every so often. I didn't care or felt that my values or beliefs were being compromised; it made them happy, and that's what mattered to me. But, yeah, I wasn't waking up every Sunday for it. No chance.

[pierre]

I wouldn't mind going so much, if it were a every once and awhile thing. I do feel like it's putting on an act though and I feel somewhat uncomfortable being there. I would still probably do it if it was just to make her happy and be there for her, that's all I would get out of it. Like you said though, I wouldn't be getting up and going every Sunday.

[tattoobunnie]

The last three relationships I knew where a christian married true aetheists, after a few years of marriage, each of them said their spouse, this isn't for me, and I don't wanna do it anymore, and just left them. It's the true idea that you can do whatever you want, because ultimately the life you have is it.

 

Being religious, a not too religious aren't the same things. It's either you believe there is something out there beyond you or you don't. Things may be fine for now, but when the moment comes on where and how you get married, how you raise your kids...having similar leisure and humor won't carry you both any further in the relationship.

[banal]

I wouldn't mind going so much, if it were a every once and awhile thing. I do feel like it's putting on an act though and I feel somewhat uncomfortable being there. I would still probably do it if it was just to make her happy and be there for her, that's all I would get out of it. Like you said though, I wouldn't be getting up and going every Sunday.

 

I went enough to make them feel like I was putting in some effort to see where they were coming from (I was raised religious though, so I already understood). They didn't think that I would actually convert or have some epiphany during the mass. It's easy to forget as an atheist that religion does matter to some people, and not in a superficial way...like, they grew up with this stuff, and it informs a lot of their values and beliefs.

 

I looked at it as some hobby that my girlfriend wanted me to share with her. I see that earlier in the thread you disagreed with that perspective. OK, no prob, but that's what helped me to do it. Religion means nothing to me, so I never had any trouble going to church. Some of my friends thought I was compromising my beliefs, but I always said that I was just privileging the belief that my girlfriend be happy over the belief that God did not exist and that I would not attend any function that ran counter to that opinion. I know some atheists have trouble supporting religion in any way shape or form, and would consider the act of attending church some sort of "betrayal." I just don't care about it.

[pierre]

The last three relationships I knew where a christian married true aetheists, after a few years of marriage, each of them said their spouse, this isn't for me, and I don't wanna do it anymore, and just left them. It's the true idea that you can do whatever you want, because ultimately the life you have is it.

 

Being religious, a not too religious aren't the same things. It's either you believe there is something out there beyond you or you don't. Things may be fine for now, but when the moment comes on where and how you get married, how you raise your kids...having similar leisure and humor won't carry you both any further in the relationship.

 

It seems to me, if these people were in love and to the point of being married for years before they supposedly just left their partners out nowhere for religious differences that they already had prior knowledge of, i feel like neither party were entirely truthful to each other. That's why I want to get this figured out know. Is she inviting me because she wants me to go to be there with her, maybe like I'd like her to go to a concert that she might not like or be a fan of. Or is she hoping that I will go and see the light and be converted?

 

Thinking about it more and writing this out, I feel it is much more like the first. I've known this girl for years and I'm quite sure she knows who I am, what I'm about, and the kind of person I am. I don't feel she is trying to convert me.

 

It has crossed my mind a few times though, about how you would deal with children in this capacity. I feel the marriage portion wouldn't have much of a problem, but putting children into the dynamic would definitely change things. I'm sure she would want them to go to church and learn the same things she has. I actually wouldn't mind so much. I think the child should have the right to make their own decisions and believe what they choose to believe though. Stuffing religion down their throats when they're young is going to pretty much make that their belief. But you can't anticipate a child can make decisions on what they believe for many many years. I just wouldn't want one thing or the other forced on my child.

[Firiel]

Oftentimes, relationships with two people who believe vastly different things don't work out simply because for many it's a huge part of life that can't be shared. For instance, my husband could never have married someone who wasn't of his faith. It's not that he is intolerant, but he wants to be a pastor, so having his career and hobbies be something he couldn't share with a spouse would be too much. I'm not saying it can't work, but you should be careful because, especially if kids were enter the picture, it can get very complicated very quickly.

 

When it comes to the issue of going to church with her, don't go if you don't feel okay about it, but do know that almost no one would see your being their as disrespectful to their faith. You seem like an open-minded person, and the fact that you are respectful of their beliefs and acknowledge the important role that faith can have in the lives of some people will most likely make them glad to see someone like you visiting, even if it's not because you believe or are even thinking about believing.

[Moontiger]

My mother was a Catholic and my father is something between an atheist and an agnostic, They have been married for 26 years. My parents always just look at it as their special "me" time, like when other couple go off by themselves to do something without their spouse. My father would go to church for certain holidays 2-3 times a year.

 

Firiel, This has not been my experience. I think it really depends on the Church you go to though. Funny story, when a friend (I'll call her Faith ^_^) was a teenager she was trying to figure out what faith she was. So she went to church one day with a family friend (during this time she was researching multiple faiths including Wicca) after the service her family friend mentioned to the priest that Faith was looking into Wicca, the priest walked over to Faith and hit her in the arm with a bible and began telling her who disrespectful she was and how she was going to "burn for eternity".

[banal]

It has crossed my mind a few times though, about how you would deal with children in this capacity. I feel the marriage portion wouldn't have much of a problem, but putting children into the dynamic would definitely change things. I'm sure she would want them to go to church and learn the same things she has. I actually wouldn't mind so much. I think the child should have the right to make their own decisions and believe what they choose to believe though. Stuffing religion down their throats when they're young is going to pretty much make that their belief. But you can't anticipate a child can make decisions on what they believe for many many years. I just wouldn't want one thing or the other forced on my child.

 

This is a tough one. Personally I don't care if my child were to be raised religiously. I would only object to my wife doing something injurious to my child, and I don't regard religion as injurious emotionally or psychologically as some people may do so. Besides, religion is a big part of our culture, like it or not, and it's a lot harder for an atheist from birth to relate to it or understand it than someone who had been raised that way. I lost my faith in college, as many other people have done, and I'm glad that I had been brought up religiously. I wouldn't have wanted it any other way, to be honest...but that's me. I don't understand atheists who cannot "be with" someone who's religious, but I can totally understand the argument that they don't want their children raised that way.

[Firiel]

 

Firiel, This has not been my experience. I think it really depends on the Church you go to though. Funny story, when a friend (I'll call her Faith ^_^) was a teenager she was trying to figure out what faith she was. So she went to church one day with a family friend (during this time she was researching multiple faiths including Wicca) after the service her family friend mentioned to the priest that Faith was looking into Wicca, the priest walked over to Faith and hit her in the arm with a bible and began telling her who disrespectful she was and how she was going to "burn for eternity".

 

It's true that it depends on the church. In my experience, I've not met many Christians who would see a non-Christian visitor as disrespectful. Many would likely be more interested in converting him than he is interested in being converted, but for the most part, it wouldn't be overbearing. I've had the pleasure of knowing mainly respectful religious people, but sadly, this isn't the case for everyone.

 

But this religious person, at least, wouldn't be offended in the slightest if an atheist came to a service, even if it was just out of curiosity.

[RitaTrue]

It could be an issue later down the road, but it doesn't seem to be now. If all she's inquiring upon is to asking if you wish to go, you can always tell her no. If she's certain that she's ok per her religion to date an atheist (obviously you don't mind) I wouldn't worry too much about it. You have a right to believe in what you want.

 

It WILL be an issue down the road. Unless one of you converts or de-converts, or if you take a break from the relationship itself. Overall, it depends on what you're looking for. Since you're just getting started, you're still in the honeymoon period. And if you're dating casually, than this is all fine. But, if either of you sees yourself taking things further in the future, if everything else falls in line, than this will present a problem. But, you're already aware of this.

 

Ideally, What exactly would you hope for, for this relationship spiritually?

[pierre]

It WILL be an issue down the road. Unless one of you converts or de-converts, or if you take a break from the relationship itself. Overall, it depends on what you're looking for. Since you're just getting started, you're still in the honeymoon period. And if you're dating casually, than this is all fine. But, if either of you sees yourself taking things further in the future, if everything else falls in line, than this will present a problem. But, you're already aware of this.

 

Ideally, What exactly would you hope for, for this relationship spiritually?

 

I guess I'm a little confused by this post. You say it wouldn't work unless one of us converts or de-converts, but then say maybe if we take a break from the relationship? So if we stop seeing each other for awhile and come back to it, religion will no longer be an issue?

 

I know that we're in the honeymoon period. It's very evident, the way that we feel, act towards each other, say the things we say etc. However, we have known each other for 5-6 years and it was just uncovered that we've always had a thing for each other. About 3 weeks before we started dating, we hung out at the bar and were talking and somehow got into a conversation about relationships. We both seemed to have a similar view on what we wanted and where we were in life. I'm 27 and she's 24. We're both past the crazy partying, get drunk every night, go nuts and date someone new every month stage. Though, neither of us seemed to be much into it anyway. We both said how we were ready to meet the person we were going to be with, settle down, start a life together, eventually have kids, etc. Mind you, this discussions is weeks before I even got enough courage to ask her out.

 

We've always gotten along so great over the years and I always looked at her as someone I could be with and spend my life with. She's so many things that previous gf's weren't. Everything about her to seems to be exactly what I'm looking for in another person, with the exception of her religion. I however, am perfectly fine with her being religious. Would I rather her not be religious? Yes, but it doesn't matter much to me. I think it's the same for her. Would she like me to be religious? Yes, but I don't know if it matters so much to her. I'm sure it does to a certain degree, but I'm not sure to what point. So far it isn't very extreme.

 

When she asked me to go to church with her, she didn't actually say "will you come to church with me". She had to leave my house that morning and I was being cutesy or whatever and saying how I don't want her to go to which she replied "you can come with me". When I said no to that, is when she said she'd keep inviting me. I said something jokingly like "oh are you trying to convert me?" and she laughed and said "No, I don't missionary date! I'd just like you to go".

 

So maybe I'm taking it a little far in my mind. To me immediately I assumed that she wants me to go to church and see the light or something. Now going back over it

I think she just wants me to go to be there with her.

 

So I diverged from the question asked a bit. Where do I see this relationship ideally when it comes to spirituality? I would hope it can stay the same as it is now. I have my beliefs, she has hers and thats where we keep them. We can support each other if one another asked and be there for them, but never press on each other to change their beliefs. Again, and I bring it up because I'm pretty certain of a future with this girl, I feel the only major issue would arise when children are brought. I don't mind them going to church, like I said. I just feel, as a child, you have no way to form your own opinion or belief when you're being forced to go and hear something that someone professes to be the truth. That is something that I feel would be still about 4-5 years down the road though and something we wouldn't even discuss until this relationship shows guaranteed long term potential, even though I think we're both sure of it.

[1m50L0nl3y]

If she as a religious person doesn't want to have sex, you as an atheist dont want to go to church. SIMPLE. You respect her choice of virginity. I bet if you were asking her to have sex with you and she said NO and you replied "Its ok Im going to keep inviting you to open your legs" she would tell you you are the biggest jerk on earth. Not only that, it would be wrong morally speaking. IM NOT IMPLYING THAT YOU SHOULD TELL HER TO HAVE SEX IN ORDER TO JOIN HER TO CHURCH. MY POINT IS THAT YOU ARE OKAY WITH A DECISION BASED PURELY ON HER RELIGION WHEN YOU LACK ONE.

 

You dont see atheists knocking on your door with a copy ORIGIN OF THE SPECIES on their right hand? Do you?

 

Furthermore, she already had a bunch of failed relationships with atheists, she should know by now the word R E S P E C T.

If she wants a dude who will join her to church then maybe she should look elsewhere.

 

I find you also were clingy at begging her to stay, you triggered her animosity, she wanted to test how far would you take it.. you must learn that church goes first than YOU in her life, if you cant cope with that, you know what to do. I would avoid her on sundays, for 2 reasons, 1 church invitation and 2 when people just come from church they have the holy spirit still "turned on", so they may be up for debates and saving souls.

 

Overall, if she never mentions again the subject of church and anything else related to religion, it will be great. If she does, then is time to set boundaries or give up atheism. Once you set foot on church, it will lead to a series of church activities, and you wont be able to pull back because you like this girl very much.

You can give it a chance to religion and maybe who knows you might discover church isnt cancer. Just be aware that theres an abyss between you and her, you are just choosing to overlook it, as her ex managed to do for 2 years (probably cheating on her). Thats why I tell you maybe not now, but the day you have to plan your wedding and get involved with the inlaws you will completely see in what you've got into.

 

In my particular case Im Atheist. No woman in this world will ever change my beliefs or push hers in my lifestyle. None.

[pierre]

This is a little hard to reply to. I am grateful for your opinion, I just don't know what to take from it...I suppose things can be interpreted many ways when they're typed as opposed to spoken.

 

She is religious, yet we do have sex...and quite often at that, so I'm not sure about your first statement. The second portion about me being clingy and "begging her to stay" is a little misinterpreted. I knew she was going to church, no matter what and I didn't think that saying to stay with me and not go would stop her. I also wasn't really trying to get her to not go. It was a cutesy dumb honeymoon moment that couples have. Like "you hang up first, no YOU hang up first" or "I love you more, No I love YOU more". I understood she was leaving, it was just mushy stuff and was in no way being clingy. Third, I do not believe that going to church once to appease my girlfriend will spark it to become overpowering to the point that I need to be a believer and go to all church functions and forget about my personal beliefs. I'm thinking we will able to be respectful enough of each other to let each other have our own beliefs, again, I don't think many problem would occur until the possibility of children come up.

[1m50L0nl3y]

Then, whats the point of asking for advice if you really intend to succumb and go to church?

You really dont need advice, you just need other people opinions to reinforce what you already know.

I put the virginity thing as an example. On how double standard religious observations can be opposed to atheism.

I really dont know what are your motives to use the ATHEIST label. In what is that you dont believe in god? or religion?

[erzerum7]

My mother is a devout Christian, as am I and my sister. My dad is an agnostic. The difference in our beliefs was a huge chasm in the family. There are a ton of issues - from dating, marriage, career goals, attitudes to family and money, to the death penalty, war, liberalism/conservativism, abortion, gay issues, etc. - where there was a vast difference in our beliefs and everything was rooted in the three of us affirming the Bible and its validity and the other rejecting that. When my parents married, my mother was not a devout Christian.

 

Your girlfriend doesn't sound like the most committed Christian, since premarital sex is forbidden in our religion, as is yoking oneself with a non-Christian (you). Perhaps she is ignorant, perhaps she is falling into temptation, perhaps she's not a real Christian. From my perspective, she should not be dating an atheist and she should not be having premarital sex, so her commitments might be more wishy-washy than they are for some others.