Advice Needed

[adviseseeker]

Girl meets guy on dating site and they go out. First date involves walking around and talking, then going to a local pub to have one beer and some food. They talk for a few hours. Guy walks girl to her car and says he would like to see her again soon at the end of the date with a kiss on the cheek. He messages her and they set up a second date a few days later. Second date involves a long bike ride starting in the morning, half the time they are biking and conversing, the other half is sitting on the beach talking and having some food. They part in the evening, with a kiss on the cheek. He messages her again and they set up a third date a few days later.

 

Third date... he invites her over to his house which is actually his mom's house where he is staying since he just moved back to the city. She is standing in the kitchen when she meets both his mom and step-dad in passing, but is not properly introduced to them. She suggests they get a drink and so they both grab a beer and head to the beach where they talk for over an hour, and they cuddle a bit to keep warm. He kisses her. They head back to the house and he makes dinner. They head downstairs to his 'room' to eat on his bed. After dinner they are laying down and he starts massaging her back, after a while his hands get frisky. He starts kissing her and massaging her, she is a little uncomfortable and says that she likes to wait a little while. He gets frustrated with the 'arbitrary' timeframe that people make up, and says that life is too short. He tries again minutes later and she stops him and says he is frustrating her and that they should just hang out. He gets upset with that. He massages her again after, they end up making out after a while. He tries for more again so she stops him and tries to make conversation to cool off, he talks for a bit then ends the date and walks her to her car. They make out a bit more and she leaves.

 

Three days later he messages her to do something later in the week.

 

So, if you were the girl would you see him again?

[bluexin99]

Probably not. He doesn't respect her enough. She didn't do anything wrong. I mean, cmon, it was only their 3rd date! It appears to me that he's more into the intimacy rather than genuinely wanting to get to know her

[civilservant]

Even as a guy I'd say no. If you have said you want to wait he should be respectful of that, clearly he's not.

[WockaWocka]

I agree, I wouldn't see him again. Assuming you didn't give him any particular reason to think that your timeline was arbitrary (something like "I always wait a month"), his accusation that your preferences were arbitrary seems extremely disrespectful of your feelings and decision. Not to mention cold and impersonal... If he had more finesse he would have said how attracted he was to you, etc etc rather than putting you on the defensive with that type of comment. And trying over and over again was not ok. I know women who've been date raped, so this is a big red flag. Next time if a guy keeps persisting like that I'd try to leave the situation as soon as possible.

 

Cheers.

[jul-els]

Nope. He doesn't respect boundaries. But it would help if she was a little bit clearer in communicating what her boundaries are. From the story you tell here, it sounds like she may not have.

[FathomFear]

No, I wouldn't. He sounds rather immature to be honest.

 

Having said that, I think you needed to hold firm and not send mixed messages. If you want to say "no", be firm and stand by that.

[banal]

No. He doesn't respect you. This lack of respect will only materialize time and time again. If anything, you want to send him a thank-you card for being an absolute * * * * * * * on only the third date. He saved you a lot of trouble. It takes a real loser to be this aggressive in THE BASEMENT OF HIS MOM'S HOUSE.

[adviseseeker]

I agree, I wouldn't see him again. Assuming you didn't give him any particular reason to think that your timeline was arbitrary (something like "I always wait a month"), his accusation that your preferences were arbitrary seems extremely disrespectful of your feelings and decision. Not to mention cold and impersonal... If he had more finesse he would have said how attracted he was to you, etc etc rather than putting you on the defensive with that type of comment. And trying over and over again was not ok. I know women who've been date raped, so this is a big red flag. Next time if a guy keeps persisting like that I'd try to leave the situation as soon as possible.

 

Cheers.

 

Yep I didn't give him an actual timeframe, I said I like to wait a while...he definitely didn't have finesse I agree, he tried a bit with some compliments I suppose. I left pretty shortly after, now I'm sort of afraid of other people I might meet online! I didn't want to spend much time at this house, but even then his parents were home...it was such an awkward situation to be in.

[adviseseeker]

Nope. He doesn't respect boundaries. But it would help if she was a little bit clearer in communicating what her boundaries are. From the story you tell here, it sounds like she may not have.

 

I actually told him that I have boundaries. I think I communicated pretty clearly that I would not do anything with him which is why he was probably quick to get me out of the house.

[adviseseeker]

No. He doesn't respect you. This lack of respect will only materialize time and time again. If anything, you want to send him a thank-you card for being an absolute * * * * * * * on only the third date. He saved you a lot of trouble. It takes a real loser to be this aggressive in THE BASEMENT OF HIS MOM'S HOUSE.

 

Haha agreed, he's also 32 years old and staying in the basement of his mom's house. I felt a little used when I left, and I figured he would send me a message to apologize but that didn't happen. Instead he sent me a message after three days to see if I wanted to hang out again. How could I not have seen this coming? I thought he was really sweet before, and normal...his profile says he's looking for a relationship. It's so disconcerting...I think at one point he called me a tease. I'm starting to hate online dating.

[WockaWocka]

now I'm sort of afraid of other people I might meet online!

 

I hope you don't let this one case turn you off from online dating entirely. This type of red flag--aggression/anger after being turned down for sex--can come from a guy you meet anywhere, even a friend. There are plenty of nice guys online and plenty of jerks in bars and clubs, you just never know.

 

I'm a bit cautious about my safety with random strangers, including online dates -- I always make sure to meet in public and try to share the guy's contact info with a friend before I go.

 

We try our best to protect ourselves and ultimately it can be difficult. In your case I'd say his lack of apology is definitely a sign that he doesn't think he did anything wrong, ergo he doesn't deserve to see you again. It's perfectly natural to feel more cautious going forward. But I hope you don't let this experience stop you from trying altogether!

[adviseseeker]

I wouldn't say he was aggressive or angry...I guess I would say he was bothered. Either way I was uncomfortable.

 

So I was on the dating site lastnight and he saw me online and tried to chat with me. He said hi but then didn't respond after so I logged off. Then he sent me a message to the effect, "Hey you, sorry I was busy. Let's meet up! It's been a while, I didn't hear back from you last time I messaged..."

 

He might be clueless, so I was thinking maybe I should respond and be completely honest as to why I stopped communicating with him? Couldn't I just send him a message saying that he made me very uncomfortable last time and I'm not interested in a casual thing, or something?

 

Any ideas would be great!

[banal]

I'd just ignore him.

[adviseseeker]

I feel bad just ignoring, now he's seen that I was online and was going to chat with him so wouldn't it be better if I respond?

[Ms Darcy]

Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't exactly lay on a bed and make out with a guy I am dating unless I wanted more. I'm not saying he wasn't a jerk; I'm just sayin'.

[adviseseeker]

Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't exactly lay on a bed and make out with a guy I am dating unless I wanted more. I'm not saying he wasn't a jerk; I'm just sayin'.

 

The reason why I was on his bed is because this room he was staying in was under construction, and there were no other pieces of furniture to sit on, we ate dinner on his bed. It was either that or be upstairs where his parents were. I was able to get us out of the house for a while but he wanted to go back to cook dinner. I suggested we watch a movie on his computer because there was really nothing else to do, but he eventually moved the computer off his bed.

 

I thought he was a nice guy, and I would have probably wanted more if we had been on more dates, and weren't in his moms house. I usually wait a little while before I sleep with someone I'm dating, and I at least like it to be a gradual progression, not having a first kiss and then them jumping me on the same night.

 

When we actually made out, it was at the end after I kept politely declining his advances and he asked me if we were allowed to just make out instead. We kissed for a bit and then he was getting more intense so I stopped it. He was really pushy the whole time and I was resisting the whole time, I wasn't just laying on his bed making out with him! When we kissed at my car he also was really intense.

 

This whole thing confuses me because the first two dates we had were innocent and fun, just getting to know eachother a bit. Our second date he rested his hand on my leg and it was natural. Then all of a sudden he's aggressively putting the moves on me?

 

I feel like I need to say something now because he's sent me another message, and since I ignored the last one...

[Ms Darcy]

Right and all of that is fair. I am saying that for me wild horses couldn't drag me into a guy's bed nor would I start kissing him. I have had this conversation with a male friend of mine ... and he said that if you don't want guys to think they have a green light for sex don't give them a green light for sex. Bed ... kissing ... looks like green light.

 

Again, when you said no, he should have stopped. I'm just really cautioning you to avoid potentially detrimental situations. I don't care if his cat died and his grandmother is an invalid who needs round the clock care and he has a knot on his back he really needs you to touch ... you have choices as well.

[erzerum7]

In addition to his disrespect in things physical, his not introducing you to his mother and step-father is very disrespectful, either to you or to them. That tells you a lot about his lack of potential for a longer term relationship.

 

I am convinced that women who are being pressed and pressed to be physical should just make an abrupt stop to the date. When a certain boundary has been crossed, it's time to end the date and possibly the relationship.

[erzerum7]

Right and all of that is fair. I am saying that for me wild horses couldn't drag me into a guy's bed nor would I start kissing him. I have had this conversation with a male friend of mine ... and he said that if you don't want guys to think they have a green light for sex don't give them a green light for sex. Bed ... kissing ... looks like green light.

 

Again, when you said no, he should have stopped. I'm just really cautioning you to avoid potentially detrimental situations. I don't care if his cat died and his grandmother is an invalid who needs round the clock care and he has a knot on his back he really needs you to touch ... you have choices as well.

 

I agree. I suspect that even a number of rapes have occurred because women were giving men "the green light" up to an absurd point ("you can touch my naked boobs, but not more!") and then the men got aggressive and went all the way.

 

If someone is not comfortable with having sex yet, they shouldn't engage in foreplay, making out, etc. There's a big difference between a brief kiss goodbye and making out on someone's bed.

[adviseseeker]

And people wonder why rape victims feel guilty...

 

I sat on his bed so I just must have been oozing with sexual energy, right? I kissed him back so I was obviously giving him the green light for sex. Apart from the fact that I was pulling away from him every time, it was obviously my fault that he got the wrong idea.

 

That's just ridiculous.

 

The only guys who would think that doing this is okay are jerks. Especially the ones who think that kissing is an invitation for sex.

 

Maybe if you were in the situation you would understand, but you obviously don't. But of course, you are so perfect as to never find yourself in such a situation anyway.

[Ms Darcy]

And people wonder why rape victims feel guilty...

 

I sat on his bed so I just must have been oozing with sexual energy, right? I kissed him back so I was obviously giving him the green light for sex. Apart from the fact that I was pulling away from him every time, it was obviously my fault that he got the wrong idea.

 

That's just ridiculous.

 

The only guys who would think that doing this is okay are jerks. Especially the ones who think that kissing is an invitation for sex.

 

Not at all. No one is perfect, and I've put myself in some ridiculous situations in my life so I don't think I'm perfect. I'm just saying if you don't want a situation where you feel pressured, don't make out on a bed with a (virtual) stranger. Is that unreasonble?

 

These things are touchy and taboo subjects, right, because every woman who has been raped or assaulted knows in her "rational" mind that it's not her fault but also for many the feeling of fault (whether internal or external) comes into play as well.

 

Remember you are talking to a woman here, and one who has your best interest at heart. I had a rape prevention class and the first 30 minutes was about every day behaviors to avoid. Essentially -- trusting your gut and/or not trusting people who have not yet earned your trust. Trusting your gut to get out of a situation that feels wrong. Not trusting other people who have not earned your trust when the situation starts to feel wrong. You had an intuition, a feeling, that something wasn't right at some point ... that's enough of a signal for me to hightail it.

 

For my part, kissing on a bed isn't a green light to me, and no means no, I'm just talking about avoiding situations with people who may interpret things that way.