annieperson Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 So I am about 8 months into our seperation (we were together for almost 17 years). We still have a contact relationship as we have a teenage son that we still take care of and often times we talk on the phone or text each other to talk about random stuff or talk about our son. We even hang out sometimes and watch our sons hockey games or I will go to his house sometimes and cook them dinner if he has to work late. So we do have a friendship. Probably because we were together for so long and truly were best friends. There was nothing really bad that broke us up. Just two people drifting apart. However he is extremely stubborn and when we finally had "the talk" and I told him I wasnt happy, he decided that we were breaking up and that was it. He spiraled things so fast that before I knew it, we had sold the house and were living apart. Maybe I didnt do anything to stop it because it was really what I wanted or maybe I didnt know how to stop him but in the end we both ended up alone. He was devasted. Saying I broke his heart and he thought we were going to be together forever. I was in shock. I tried to tell him that I didnt think it would go this far and I'm not even totally sure how it got to this point of us being "broken up". It was so confusing! So through these 8 months I have missed my husband. I have missed him so much. I tried the crying and the begging but was met with a wall. He still cared about me and wanted only good things for me but said he could never feel that much pain again and couldnt bear to set himself up for another failure. But did I cause this?? Or did he with his rash thinking and overreacting? Why were we broken up again??? Like I said, we are still close - to a point. People even wonder why we broke up. We are both told by our friends that we should be together and it is obvious that we still love each other but is that only because we were together for so long we just fit? Or is that because we were soul mates. His father recently passed away and he invited me to the funeral which was out of town so we had to stay in a hotel (with our teenaged kids of course so not alone). He was friendly and it was comfortable - it was like home. Even his family couldnt believe that we arent together anymore. I want more. I dont want to lose my husband. I want to work on it but he is so friggin stubborn that he is convinced I dont want to be with him and I only want him back because I am lonely. He says things like " If we got back together, you would just get bored and leave me again". I never left you in the first place!!! He even asked if I would please go and date someone as that would help him with healing his heart!!! Should I even want him back? Why do I want him back sooo bad??? Is this true love???? Help!!!
Hollyj Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 Why aren't you in counseling? And was marriage counseling an option?
annieperson Posted June 28, 2011 Author Posted June 28, 2011 He originally said that he would do counselling and then when I tried to ask him later he said " I dont need counselling. I am who I am".
Kitkat973 Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 I think this state of limbo isn't helping either of you. It's an inbetween where you're not sure what you are, and that keeps you from being able to continue with your life, either with or without him. I don't think that you can have happiness if you remain halfway between married and friendship.
lavenderdove Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 If you can't even start a talk about your feelings without him filing for divorce, then he really doesn't want to negotiate with you at all. That is more about his pride and ego than it is about building a good relationship. He has to meet you halfway to make a marriage work. You need to settle this by asking him what it would take to talk about this and get back together, and if he won't consider it, then at some point you need to stop acting like his wife and proceed with the divorce. You are still quite young, and if he won't agree to try to work on your marriage, then you need to get on with your life and look for a partner who does want to be with you.
annieperson Posted June 28, 2011 Author Posted June 28, 2011 Thanks for the feedback and you are definitely right. It was almost like he was waiting for me to say I wasnt happy so he could pounce on that and use that as an excuse to end our relationship which is probably why everything moved so fast. It was literally like a whirlwind. But he says he is so sad and heartbroken. He says that he will never find anyone again because he found his soul mate and best friend in me and I destroyed him. Is he just playing games?
GrowingIn Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 I don't know if this is going to help you any but I'll give you an insight on how some of us are. If a person really believes, as I have, in being together for the rest of your life, then even the mention from the other person indirectly(I'm not happy = I wanna split) or directly that they are considering splitting is the equivalent of filing for divorce. Just the mention of it shatters the security and the bond. Just hearing those words for the first time is enough for someone to never want to be with that person again because they can never trust them the same way once they mention splitting. It shattered the dream. This is why I say threatening someone with ultimatums of divorce or separation when you want a change is the worst thing you can do. I have been guilty of doing this too, during a fight, or a heated moment, and unless you are 100% sure, avoid ever mentioning any sort of separation, divorce, or split up to your partner until you are ready to go through with it and not second guess yourself. Just like it's bad to second guess marrying someone, it's just as big a no-no to mention something like this to someone unless you have decided to go ahead and divorce. To him, there's just no turning back. This is especially true for men that believe strongly in keeping promises, their word and bond above all things and the idea that marriage is forever and that "you two will never be apart". They believe you should have come to him with your issues much sooner and discussed things openly instead of ever allowing things to reach the point of "I'm not happy". So he's probably actually blaming you for the reasons why the marriage ended. We realize in those moments that our partner has for a long time been keeping their true feelings from us and we had no idea because we expected them to come to us with whatever issues bothered them. Some people really do believe in that. And when we mention such things, we always overlook the fact that emotionally when you said those words, you divorced him. Emotionally you already divorced him. Marriage isn't about the piece of paper and divorce isn't about the process and paperwork. That's the legal side of it. The REAL marriage is simply a fragile, so very fragile, bond and promise that has nothing to do with the rings, the ceremony, etc . In his mind he's divorced. The paperwork isn't what kept him in this marriage. It was you never, ever losing faith in the promise to always be together. That's why it's so shocking and devastating when you hear it from the other person. Because usually to one person, those thoughts NEVER cross their mind, and they fully believe they NEVER cross yours either until you let them know otherwise. And that's when the hammer drops.
annieperson Posted June 28, 2011 Author Posted June 28, 2011 Wow Growing. Are you my husband???? lol! You sound exactly like my ex. He was completely destroyed and I never once said I didnt want to be in our marriage. He knew that there was something wrong in our communication and our talk was a way to open the lines of communication open but as soon as I said I wasnt happy with the way things were going, you are right, it was like I took our marriage and ripped it up right in front of him. I just wanted to talk it out but he had already decided what the outcome was going to be. This makes so much sense as to why he was so devasted in the days and weeks that followed. He was destroyed where I was trying to figure out what happened and then he got cold and distant. Like he just shut it off. It was scary. Now like I mentioned before it is like we are friends but it is like we have never been any more than that. Splitting up is never what I wanted but that is what happened. So GrowingIn, how, if at all, do I get him back??
DN Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 When you told him you weren't happy - how did you bring it up and what did you say? What were you not happy about? What tone of voice did you use for instance?
annieperson Posted June 28, 2011 Author Posted June 28, 2011 We were just going through a few months of not really talking, bickering about stupid things. Life was stressful, bills were getting out of hand a bit. Teenagers were driving us both nuts. Typical marriage stuff. I do have to mention one thing that was really weird. Before we were married, we were together for about 3 years. We were in our early twenties so we were carefree and had a lot of fun. He had lots of friends, I had lots of friends we were your typical couple Even after the first few years of marriage it was great. We would go camping and fishing and we really liked the outdoors. We had our kids and lived your typical life. But as the years went on, things started to change, he started to change. Gone were his days of wanting to do anything with anyone. he started to become a hermit. He no longer liked his friends, or mine for that matter and said that now that we were married we didnt need anyone else. We had each other. This was acceptable for a while as I loved him and he was right. We had enough going on in our family to keep any one busy! But as the kids got older and we had more free time, I wanted to go and do things. Not without him, with him. Our friends would invite us to dinners and fundraisers but he would be too tired or too busy, he would tell me to go alone and then I would. and then when I would come home he wouldnt talk to me for 2 days! He also never came to one of my staff parties at work. no matter how much I would ask him and be upset, he would just say he was too shy or too uncomfortable but to go and have fun. Again, I would go and he would be upset with me! This was a progressive thing that happened over the years, not just overnight. If it was a sudden thing than I would have called him on it but it was a gradual thing that happened slowly so it was harder to see what was happening until I really looked back and thought about it. The reason I am telling you all this is that on the day we had our "talk" he said that he figured I wasnt happy because I had been spending more time with my best friend than usual. Ready for this one??? He asked me if I was having an affair with her!!!! I actually laughed out loud thinking that he was kidding but nope! he was serious. I honestly did not know how to respond. Looking back, I think he just started becoming insecure. I have never cheated on my husband, I have never been a bar girl, In our entire 17 years of being together I can count on one hand how many "girls nights" I went on. (Dancing, movies ). He just really started to not like himself and was always putting himself down and putting us down as a couple. (We didnt work hard enough, we couldnt manage our money good enough, we didnt take care of our house nice enough). It was exahusting trying to keep him pumped up all the time. I definitely loved him though, nothing mattered. You cant pick who you love. Maybe I did break his heart to the point of no return. but was it really something I did or something he invented??
DN Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 If you were to get back together do you think that those things you were concerned about would be different? Would he be able to change and become more sociable?
GrowingIn Posted June 28, 2011 Posted June 28, 2011 Were you his first true love too? I also wanna mention that's why typically it's so hard to get back together and one of the reasons most second marriages fail. Because you can never have that feeling of security that you had when you both believed in that. You can never again fully believe you will always be together, once a split takes place. Because you know, in the back of your head it already happened. And for some the belief in that is everything. It really is. It's what the whole thing was about. And on the other side of the fence, when we are ready to say something like that to a person, we forget how important maybe that belief was to us at some point, and we forget that when we deliver the message even though we no longer feel that way, it's very well likely your partner still might. So we are not even considerate of that most important promise that we forgot about. I don't know how to explain it, but to them it's basically unthinkable. Immobilizing. Impossible even that you would ever go there. It's that one moment that inflicted that deadly blow and what makes it worse to that person is that we are not even acknowledging that we have basically just well.....killed them. And you can never go back after that. It's only one way. You just can't undo that. And for some of us that have believed in that at least at one in our past and have moved on have probably never viewed a relationship in that way again. At least I know I haven't. I have had plenty of relationships since my divorce but I have never had the courage to ever open my heart in such a way to fully believe and with my whole heart that we will never be apart. She was the only woman that got that from me, and will probably be the only woman that will ever get that from me. Which is probably why every relationship from here on out or if i get married again will never have the same meaning and either fail or will work for completely different reasons. More materialistic and more realistic. Cause in reality, how can I honestly ever fully believe that I am going to be with someone for the rest of my life, when I know, I believed in that once and that feeling was wrong. I can never trust my heart to feel like that again. You really do only get one chance at that kind of marriage in life. And it's a catch 22, because only people that can truly forget the past, and get their heart back completely to the point where they can believe that again somehow(I'd love to know that secret), that's when you may have the strength to make a marriage work the second time around. It's the difference between allowing you to trust a human being 100% and then after that 99.9%, 80%, 75%. And I think if most of us dig down and really think about this, those who have experienced that, will probably realize we have buried that for good the first time we were burnt. So if you were that woman for him, you were the woman that basically killed all that in him. Sorry I don't mean to make you feel guilty. But it's true. Who knows, maybe he killed it in you a long time ago, or someone else did long before. When a person believes a marriage it is greater than both of you, there are just some things you can never say including "I'm not happy with how things are going" because to him it means "I'm considering splitting, I'm not in love with you anymore". I have no idea how to get him back, but I can assure you, you will never get the same man back. I'm sorry. And if he's the type of man that needs that belief in order to believe in marriage, I'm not sure that you should want him back. Things will just never be the same. Unless you can somehow make him believe he had you all wrong and you would never consider divorce and none of what took place actually took place. Brainwash him? Hypnotize him? Erase his memory? That's what my ex wife would have had to do, and she knew it was impossible. It's not all your fault though, it's probably because he believed in that naive true love like I did when I first met her and then realized it was not real or maintainable. Maybe that's why he became depressed. I remember before we got married, I truly freaking believed this woman only had eyes for me. I mean she really had me believing in that with all my heart. I remember even asking her, come on, everyone finds other people attractive. No, not met she would say...you're the only man I find attractive.....and I bought into all of that. In those moments someone could have brought me a picture of her banging some other guy, and I would have gone....no, that's not my wife! I KNOW my wife. And if SHE doesn't come to me and admits to it, then it didn't happen. Only of course to later realize it's not true. And things like me noticing her checking out other men, would hurt. That's the type of stuff that caused me to be depressed. It was mainly me feeling so stupid that I believed in all that. But the one thing that still kept everything together, when reality kicked in was the promise of being together. But that's the kind of trust I had in her. She was the one that would go to hell and back with me in my mind. Now if I meet a woman and says something along the lines of...you're the most amazing man I've ever met....I'm automatically like.....yeah, whatever.....can't trust this one! Whereas before those type of things meant the world to me but that belief died the day we split up. Deep down, I think we all WANT to believe in that. For a short period of time, I had that and I feel sorry for those that have never experienced that at least once in their life. And for those of us that have ended up marrying that person we felt like that for, well then that promise of "always being together" is also the bond that keeps all of those initial experiences as real instead of just them being naive thinking. Is it something he invented? Maybe. Did you help him? You decide. Some say love is different for everyone, and some say love is an exaggerated view of a person that only you have and everyone else doesn't see.
annieperson Posted June 28, 2011 Author Posted June 28, 2011 Oh that is what is killing me the most DN. My brain is being logical and knows that he wont change simply because I want him to. but my heart hasnt quite caught up yet. My heart is aching for him. I miss having him next to me. I miss having him to rely on and to help me when I dont know what to do. My heart loves him unconditionally but my brain says that I am probably better off considering that he may have some things to work on that I can't help him with. How do I make my heart match my head?
annieperson Posted June 29, 2011 Author Posted June 29, 2011 Ya Growing In. I truly believe that is how he thinks now. He told me one night during one of our long talks that he is a completely different man now. He said I wouldnt want to be with him even if we did get back together because he was different, harder now. He said that he gave me his heart a long time ago and now he will never be the same. It absolutely kills me inside. I never wanted us to be apart. I love him. Do I like everything about him? No. but is marriage perfect? Are people supposed to be perfect? I hope not. I feel we were both to blame for the dissolution of our marriage but I feel like I am the one who is fighting to save it and he has completely closed that door forever. I guess it's hopeless?
GrowingIn Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 Ya Growing In. I truly believe that is how he thinks now. He told me one night during one of our long talks that he is a completely different man now. He said I wouldnt want to be with him even if we did get back together because he was different, harder now. He said that he gave me his heart a long time ago and now he will never be the same. It absolutely kills me inside. I never wanted us to be apart. I love him. Do I like everything about him? No. but is marriage perfect? Are people supposed to be perfect? I hope not. I feel we were both to blame for the dissolution of our marriage but I feel like I am the one who is fighting to save it and he has completely closed that door forever. I guess it's hopeless? I don't know annie. I really don't know. And honestly I think when it comes to moving on as I have told some other members, the easiest way for me anyway to get over someone I truly cared for, like my ex wife...the ONLY way....was to let her go with the hope that some day when we are both old we'd end up together. Like I would imagine that in my mind. Two old people, frail, white hair, liver spots on our holding hands. It may sound stupid, but it was the only way. Words such as it's over for good, they are never coming back were just much too hard for me to deal with in those moments. You hear it a lot around here on ENA. Because they say it's not good to hang on to false hope. But let's be honest.....who can really and truly predict the future? How the heck do we really know what will happen? How do they know? I think me thinking of it in those terms, made it easier to move on and let go. It's like you hope that maybe someday it happens, but you just really don't know...right? You just have to see but for now you let it go. That way you can find out later. Be curious. Live in the mean time and just let go enough for you to see if it effortlessly ever happens again by chance.(which is actually what this getting over someone is all about anyway). It's about getting to that state of mind and I think hearing "never coming back" just puts people in a state of shock that it actually makes them panic and suffer even more. It's better to just say....who knows and leave the answer up to faith and uncertainty. Because honestly, that IS reality. Right now it seems impossible, but in the future, who knows? When? Who knows? How? I say if it happens it certainly has to be accidental and not by some rules, guides, and books and not some amazing advice. It probably will take some sort of a miracle, just like it took when you first met him. And those things just kind of happen. You don't make them happen, right? As if by chance. All we have to do is remember that "who knows?" isn't such a scary thing, but it can be kind of exciting and it's what life is all about. You were thinking that before you ever met him weren't you? "Who knows if and when I'm going to find the man I'm going to marry?" You didn't draw up some plan on finding him in a state of shock and panic that actually worked.........did you? You knew what to do, once you had the opportunity to take that chance. Now you just have to wait and see if that opportunity ever presents itself, and if it does, I'm pretty sure you will know EXACTLY what to do. No one will have to tell you.
annieperson Posted June 29, 2011 Author Posted June 29, 2011 Thank you so much for your posts GrowingIn. You sound so much like my husband and how he would think and what he would say (are you sure you are not him???)lol Thinking of letting him go, truly go, is almost unbearable but maybe letting him go is the only way I can see if he ever comes back to me. We have now gone 3 days of NC and as it is mostly me initiating the contact (although he always replies and is always pleasant) I feel that this is a good time to start really trying to let him go. and so it begins.....
GrowingIn Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 Thank you so much for your posts GrowingIn. You sound so much like my husband and how he would think and what he would say (are you sure you are not him???)lol Thinking of letting him go, truly go, is almost unbearable but maybe letting him go is the only way I can see if he ever comes back to me. We have now gone 3 days of NC and as it is mostly me initiating the contact (although he always replies and is always pleasant) I feel that this is a good time to start really trying to let him go. and so it begins..... You're welcome and no I am not him. And that's exactly right, you can't find out if he will ever come back or if you and him will get back together unless you let go first. It's impossible. Think of it as testing how strong this love really is. Can it survive a 1 year, 5 year, 20 year separation? You don't know unless you let it happen. For you to find love, you have to follow your heart right? Well how the heck are you or him supposed to do that, when you still have half of each others hearts? Right now if you decide to act on your feelings, you're acting on a heart that's broken and so is he. And that can't possibly be smart. I'll like to share a personal story too that may explain why I say what I say. It's about me and my most recent ex that left me and brought me to this website. TRUE STORY. Swear to God. After the initial attraction sparked off between us, she pulled back, changed her mind and I began chasing her. Sometimes even literally. I even chased her around my kitchen table. It was unbearable and 100% uncomfortable. And I have been chasing her ever sense. After I tried and tried and she kept saying no, I gave up and I said to her, you know I know you are scared to try with me, but it would have been worth a shot. And that was it, I gave up. She had effectively dumped me before I even got started. I was crushed. And you know how everyone around here says you can't get someone back if you're negative, or down on yourself? Well that's true for the most part....but NOT always. And I know this now because life proved even that "rule" wrong for me. I went in the kitchen, and I was looking out the window....and these are the thoughts I was thinking: "Why the hell does this happen? God, why can't for once just things be easy, and why can't she just come in here, turn me around and say, you know what...I like you too, let's give it a go? Why can't that happens just ONCE for me?" Negative thoughts right? Praying, no? Well that never works. I'm sure you can guess what happened next. She slowly walks in the kitchen, sits down in the chair...in this moment I'm saying "nooooooo waaaaay......it can't be" and she goes...."You know what Growingin, I DO like you, and I DO want to give it a go, I'm just scared and want to take it slow" And I just froze. I got goose bumps and my hair rose on the back of my neck. Because that kind of thing just NEVER happens! Right? Well she dumped me about 2 months ago and I'm suffering pretty bad after her too, and even though I didn't have anywhere the kind of love I had with my ex wife, it was someone that I could actually see myself marrying again when I swore after my divorce I'd never do it again. See there's that word never.... She was by far the one in a million for me and so was the chance of me and her meeting and dating as I had just explained. It literally took a miracle. The thing that "never" happens to me. Well if I ever want her back, I'm not going to be so stupid as to think I'm going to get her by chasing her. Didn't work the first time and didn't do our relationship any good. If it's going to happen it's going to take another type of miracle like the first time. Will it? I have no idea. But I'm gonna let her go, never say never, and live my life to see what happens! PS: Btw, I should mention I had been an atheist pretty much from the age of 11 after my stepfather died until after my divorce and always believed in science, logic, and psychology and lived my life by that. After my divorce I remember coming to this revelations about God existing in those moments of pain(and I mean insane pain, balled up, naked, crying in the corner of your closet kind of insanity). I was going insane and kept analyzing everything so damn much, from an intellectual, psychological and scientific point of view which is how I lived my life, that it was driving me crazier and crazier until I reached a certain point where the only thing that made sense for me and made me regain my sanity and want to live again, was that God HAD to exist. Because I remember screaming: "God help me!" Something I had not said in 13 years. After that day I was very confused about my beliefs and after awhile I forgot and went back to my atheist self and I still say I am one as far as religion goes but I did began praying again even though I still didn't really believe in God. I was a hypocrite in my mind and very confused. God doesn't exist, and God sure as heck doesn't do miracles for atheists and I'm praying to him. But that prayer sure as heck seemed to have worked for me last year, huh? I allowed myself to pray to him even though I DIDN'T believe in him. It's totally hypocritical, and it worked? Think about that for a minute. None of it made any sense to me anymore, but I just knew I lived such a bizarre experience. Only many months later, I finally found an explanation from my mother(who always prays) that made EVERYTHING MAKE sense to me again when discussing religion because I was accusing her of being a hypocrite. She told me God is YOU, not some other being you read about in the bible! God is the perfect version of you that you should try to become all your life. So you can still pray to him and feel ok, intellectually, and still be scientific about things and the fact that you don't believe in God like everyone else. She helped me change my idea of God to one that suit me, and for me it works. So try a little prayer too sometimes even though you don't necessarily believe that kind of stuff works.
annieperson Posted June 29, 2011 Author Posted June 29, 2011 its funny that you should post that. I have always been somewhat of a spiritual person. Although I have never gone to church or practiced any particular religion I do believe that there is a higher prescence. What that is exactly, I am not quite sure. But I did just say a little prayer letting God know that I will trust him in whatever path he decides to take me. You're story is pretty intense. It sounds like when you do care about someone it is with everything that you are. I wish you all the best and again, I thank you for continuing your posts and really helping me today. Thank you!
GrowingIn Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 NP, yes I do and most people think it is unhealthy to do so. They are probably likely right....maybe. But I do that with everything, including my advice to others on here. And you know what also could be possible? That whole unhealthy relationship thing could have also come just from the fact that when others see people that are truly in love.....it makes them feel like they wanna throw up. True love is unhealthy for everyone else, and especially unhealthy for loveless marriages(which is why it's best to keep it a secret just between the two of you and never go outside of marriage for advice....only guidance). The point is, in the end, the only person that can truly answer the hardest questions is YOU or God. For me it's the same thing, and if I can't find a reason for it now, it is because I haven't lived enough for God, aka(the better, more wiser version of me 3 years down the road) to reveal those things to me. But the people that truly want to help, can act as guides along the way, to help YOU find your OWN answers. In the end, just remember, even when you don't believe in yourself anymore, you can still have faith to get you through the rough spots. Good luck and good night annie. To you and your husband.
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