To all nice guys: are you too nice?

[Batya33]

I think yaz just has a preference. She probably likes the muscular, action here type of guy. I'm guessing she's not into someone who looks like Leonardo Di Caprio. She doesn't like the sensitive, metrosexual type of man.

 

I sorta see where she's coming from. I'm a man but I cannot stand someone who overly sensitive myself. I'm not one of these guys who into telling people " I love them". To me it sounds soppy, and loving someone is done by actions not words. I couldn't stand someone desperate for my approval, nor do I want the approval of others. Being desired physically is good, but caring if someone else loves me is irrelevant. It's not going to make me richer, or more attractive, or physically stronger. it's pointless words people say to each other to make themselves feel better about each other.

 

Someone who is desperate for your approval isn't being nice, he's being self-absorbed. I believe in words and actions to show love and it depends on what the other person needs in the particular situation. Some people need the words especially if you cannot do the action at that time because of your circumstances. Overly sensitive doesn't always mean "nice" either -that can come accross also as needy/clingy. Your view sounds pretty cynical about what motivates people to express loving feelings.

[MakeItCount]

He might or it might be much worse.

 

let me give you an example. My friends and I went to a club on Canada day, we were all completely smashed since we've been drinking allll day long. One of us especially was gonezo. Done. Kaput. Anyways, he kept going up to girls with boyfriends, and wouldn't back off even when they told him repeatedly to do so. You know what happened to him? Nothing. The guys got pissed off, but just kept telling him to leave. No big deal. In my experience it's VERY rare that you're going to get beat up for approaching a girl who has a boyfriend. Unless you do something stupid like grab her ass or pull her away while she's dancing with her boyfriend. I've even seen that happen, and nothing but a shove comes from it.

 

Don't stress so much. Just do it..if it fails, it fails. I HIGHLY doubt you'll get your ass kicked.

[Batya33]

But perhaps that person doesn't want to be seen as the type of person who would behave in that rude, intrusive way. And anyway it's a small world - for all he knows one of those guys will end up interviewing him for a job or similar. Why take the chance and why be the type of person who would behave that way?

[DoGGYtREAts]

I think really alot of this is "stigma" as someone else said-

 

You really need to look at the context imho. For example At a quick glance one could peg me as "submissive", My Fiancee` does make a lot of our decisions as a couple- It just works for us. I have always been more the Easy-Going "go with the Flow" Type. ergo, when something needs to be changed or decided prompty i tend to be rather indecisive. That said, I'm not her doormat either, I WILL stand by my values, convictions, etc. If something REALLY MATTERS to me, I do stand by my position and comunicate that actively.

 

I dont think theres anything with a woman being the "stonger personality" in the relationship and "taking the lead" if thats just her personality. Theres nothing unhealthy about that at all. However, When one partner (regardless of which) is completely subdugated to the other as if some sort of Pet (rather by choice or manipulation), that IS unhealthy.

[Neutron Star]

I think yaz just has a preference. She probably likes the muscular, action here type of guy. I'm guessing she's not into someone who looks like Leonardo Di Caprio. She doesn't like the sensitive, metrosexual type of man.

 

I sorta see where she's coming from. I'm a man but I cannot stand someone who overly sensitive myself. I'm not one of these guys who into telling people " I love them". To me it sounds soppy, and loving someone is done by actions not words. I couldn't stand someone desperate for my approval, nor do I want the approval of others. Being desired physically is good, but caring if someone else loves me is irrelevant. It's not going to make me richer, or more attractive, or physically stronger. it's pointless words people say to each other to make themselves feel better about each other.

Most men are in between. A man can get emotional about putting his arm around a woman for the first time and also be far from a metrosexual.

[DoGGYtREAts]

Id say one should have an air of caution tho and not be as anoyingly presistent as your buddy. I have been in a situation where someone like that continued to persue my fiancee after the message was made clear 3 or more times, and finally i got annoyed, coped and atitude and bust the guy in the face with a Pool cue. not like a Gang-fight beating or anything, but enough to get his nose bleedin and me Flagged for the evenin' LOL.

 

Id say, dont stress, but dont push your luck repeatedly either tho. Alot of people can loose thier normal sense of self controll with enough booze.

[Neutron Star]

You tell me not to stress. It only takes one wrong move though.

 

This is reason enough to stress. Some people would punch a guy for saying hello to his girlfriend. I'm not good at all at getting away with things.

[DoGGYtREAts]

This is reason enough to stress. Some people would punch a guy for saying hello to his girlfriend. I'm not good at all at getting away with things.

Mind you i didnt clock the guy for trying to flirt with her. I clocked him after he became Obnoxious after we both made it very clear to him to back off (first by her simply telling him this is a No-Go, then by me getting in his face twice for continuing to push the issue). I have spent alot of time at clubs, bars, and parties with heavy drinking goin' on and alot of young hot-Headed people in the mix. From what I have observed your more likely to end up in a fight over spilling someones drink then unknowingly approaching a girl who is in a relationship.

[Yaz]

Neutron - it's like you expect failure. And you're happy with failure. You're fighting for someone to validate your opinion of yourself, so you can lie down and sob about being lonely. And I can totally understand, having done it before - lying down is easier than putting your chin up and changing yourself or your attitude.

 

People can read faces - they can tell you're thinking about yourself, and not thinking "hey, I'd like to have a coffee. I need company" ...scan room... "what about her?"

 

They know you think poorly of yourself, that you're desperate, and it's repellent. People who are self-conscious are usually the most conspicuous. FRANKIE SAYS RELAX.

 

You know what the difference is between being a child and an adult? When you're a child, and life punches you in the face, you cry and run away to your Mum. When you're an adult, you can punch it back yourself. Stop expecting to be lead. Own yourself. Punch back.

[Lonewing]

When you're an adolescent, you punch back. When you're an adult, you know better than to fight violence with more violence, and only use it if it's the only option. Sometimes, when life punches you in the face, it's because it's telling you "You Don't Belong Here!" or "Wrong way, buddy, wrong way!" In both cases, the proper action is to leave or go another way.

 

Yaz, this man you're asking for is one who has been put out of existence by the modern feminist movement. If you do find these men, they will have jail records, and thanks to those records, likely live in poverty. These are the men who failed to "Grow Up." There's others like them, too, who failed to grow up, but these account for the large number of are temporarily very successful with women but lack endurance. There's a reason for it.

 

Unfortunately we have a large number of women who have also refused to grow up, even though they supposedly "matured first" after they hit puberty. At least, that's how they acted when I was in Junior high/high school. But then, the last generation did not provide a very good cast of positive role models, particularly for women. Oh well.

[Yaz]

I think you take the violence too literally.

 

What I'm saying is for Neutron to stop lying down and taking it, and validating his own sense of worthlessness. You can take action to make your situation better (punch back). If you've been given a raw deal, do something.

 

I'm not asking for a boyfriend who will murder and rape me, by the way. I don't know where you got that idea.

[ProtestTheHero]

Yaz, I think I understand what you're saying.

 

Essentially, this is how I look at it:

 

If I see a woman I'm interested in, I will make the move to initiate a conversation. If she says she has a bf -- no worries. That took twenty seconds and I'm on my way. If a guy gets pissed at me just for asking his GF out when I had no idea she was taken and proceeded to hit me with a pool cue, he better be prepared to kill me. If that makes me immature, so be it. I'm a pretty laid back person. You need to disrespect me in a big way to make me angry, and taking a swing at me because I made a pass at a girl I thought was single falls into that category. I am not going to let the off chance that some crazy dude will go nuts on me keep me from living life the way I want to live it. I am not going to let other people dictate how I pursue some of my most basic desires and I don't apologize for that.

 

I have never had trouble with law enforcement. I will always make the first move in the dating scene. If I enjoyed a first date and like the girl, I'll pay for it. If I didn't, I'll pay my half and I won't see her again. You automatically have my respect until you disrespect me, but if a girl I'm seeing chooses to be immature I'm not going to go Hulk on her. She is in no danger. I will just leave and that's the last time she'll hear from me. I don't need to put up with it because there's someone else out there who won't subject me to that nonsense. When things click, I'll do whatever is reasonable and within my power to make her happy, and not because I want someone to tell me how nice and awesome I am, but because I want to.

 

None of that is difficult, and none of it requires you to go to jail or live a life of poverty. The feminist movement asks me to treat women as equals. Fine. Just understand that it's a two way street and we're good to go.

[Yaz]

Yaz, I think I understand what you're saying....

 

......None of that is difficult, and none of it requires you to go to jail or live a life of poverty. The feminist movement asks me to treat women as equals. Fine. Just understand that it's a two way street and we're good to go.

 

What a man! I'd marry the heck out of you!

[dali]

Good post Protest agree with what you have said.

 

Neutron Star sounds like you live your life fear, take Yaz's and Protests and others advice on board.

 

I think what you really need is someone to * * * * * slap you so hard that it it shocks you into change, if it's not working change it up.

 

Maybe it's gonna take some one to really tell it like it is for you to change, maybe this your chance.

[Neutron Star]

You contradict yourself time after time and seem full of yourself.

[Neutron Star]

Good post Protest agree with what you have said.

 

Neutron Star sounds like you live your life fear, take Yaz's and Protests and others advice on board.

 

I think what you really need is someone to * * * * * slap you so hard that it it shocks you into change, if it's not working change it up.

 

Maybe it's gonna take some one to really tell it like it is for you to change, maybe this your chance.

Are you saying I need to get beaten up because I don't have the ability to play the dating game. All it is is a game to most people.

[Neutron Star]

You despise guys similar to me and you heap praise on those who make fun of guys like me and you're not the only one. What shoulod I expect? I'm almost 40 and haven't had any success so how would that suddenly change? It won't. I am desperate and as emotional as the guy in the article and few would tolerate that.

[tiredofvampires]

It's appropriate to fight back in self-defense -- i.e., if someone has taken the first swing.

 

If my boyfriend and I were out somewhere and some guy made a physically aggressive move at either one of us, I'd say he (bf) was within his rights to raise his own hand. Certainly, if someone (male or female) lifted their hand to me and my bf just continued to sit passively by doing nothing, watching me being struck (and it would take very little to bring me down, no matter who I was up against), we would have to have a very, very serious talk later -- possibly, a break-up talk. And actually, if the roles were reversed, I would have no qualms in principle, if I were a black-belt and built of woman-steel, in participating in physically removing the offender from that situation, if it appeared backup would help. But that's not my body type and I have minus-ability in that department, so it would be an impossibility as I am now. Sure, I'd like to think he can defend himself in any situation, but adrenaline kicking in and wanting him not to be injured for me would override gender role identification issues, if I were capable. This is all IF I thought it wouldn't do more harm than good in that particular situation, and I had the physical strength to do it. But whichever one of us was attacked, I would expect this to be as brief as possible, followed quickly by removing ourselves and filing assault charges with the police. So I'm saying, as much as I'd want a man to protect me if someone were to assault me and I'd hope that he would, it's purely out of self-protection that I'd want it, and the fact that he wasn't a coward would certainly impress me, but the main reason for that is because I like anyone who stands up to bullies. The fact that he's my guy and that makes him masculine in my eyes is secondary.

 

However, if some guy were pestering me and wouldn't take "no, I have a boyfriend" for an answer, if my guy clocked him for that, I'd see that not as self-defense, but a statement about territoriality. And that I find offensive. And in fact, I see it as less manly, not more manly -- a man with restraint until attacked gets many more points for manliness in my world. It's brute (which I dislike, as it's gratuitous/excessive) and demeaning, because until something becomes physical, I'm very capable verbally and otherwise dealing with the situation in my own way. Which would include ignoring the guy, moving to a different area, etc. I'm not my boyfriend's property, and so his making a statement to that effect with a fist or a pool cue or a beer mug or any object is not about protecting me, it's about protecting his own "turf" and my socially-assumed weakness/defenselessness -- so that doesn't go over well with me. It would be hard for me to even say, "I appreciate the thought."

 

So again, we'd have to have a very, very serious talk later in that scenario.

 

Then again, I don't see dating guys like this. Ever. I see dating a guy who would return a punch for a punch (and only if he was punched first), and then making the best effort to de-escalate it so we could leave and call the cops. I would respect his removing himself from an out-and-out brawl as much as I would respect his doing whatever the situation called for physically to protect himself.

 

I do not believe in physical violence to make a point (talk about short-lived, essentially-pointless victories). I believe in it to preserve oneself.

 

Which would also be followed by a very, very serious talk, along the lines of, "How did we get into the bar scene anyway? I think we should go back to movie and dinner date nights."

[frree]

How about if the guy tried defending you but still got his ass kicked in the process and you got hurt? Would you dump him for that?

[ProtestTheHero]

You contradict yourself time after time and seem full of yourself.

 

lol. Want to hear my opinion of you? Probably not, so let's stick to the issue at hand. This is part of your problem -- you see assertiveness as arrogance. I didn't say "I can get any girl I want." I would never tell you "I'm the best looking guy here." Read what you quoted: If I ask a girl out and she has a boyfriend, no hard feelings. She could be lying, she could be telling me the truth, but either way it's still a no and I go about my business. I get rejected plenty of times, I just don't care. However, I don't respond well to people trying to hurt me for making an honest mistake. Does that mean I'm the strongest person ever? No. It just means I'm not afraid of other guys or anything else that keeps me from trying to lead the most fulfilling life I can. Do things get in the way? Yeah. I'm very nervous over some entrance exams I'll be taking soon. I just try to make it work.

 

Thanks for your insight, though.

[tiredofvampires]

How about if the guy tried defending you but still got his ass kicked in the process and you got hurt? Would you dump him for that?

 

For some reason, picturing this scenario (bf gets his ass kicked, and assailant continues to assault me, only ups the ante because he's enraged) leaves me wondering if I'd even walk out alive to make the decision to dump or not to dump. But let's assume I survive this.

 

Why would I dump him if he tried his best? It's not in my list of requirements and dealbreakers when considering a mate whether he can overwhelm anyone who ever attacks him. I'd probably love him even more for the bravery (which yes, would feel chivalrous to me.)

 

Are you suggesting I ought to dump him?

[Capricorn3]

How about if the guy tried defending you but still got his ass kicked in the process and you got hurt? Would you dump him for that?

I can't for the life of me ever imagine anyone dumping a guy for trying to defend/protect them. It makes no sense at all. Indeed, the total opposite would be more likely (imo).

 

What am I missing here?

[Yaz]

You despise guys similar to me and you heap praise on those who make fun of guys like me and you're not the only one. What shoulod I expect? I'm almost 40 and haven't had any success so how would that suddenly change? It won't. I am desperate and as emotional as the guy in the article and few would tolerate that.

 

It's like you didn't even read what I wrote. I don't despise guys like you, I despise your attitude. It is a huge turn-off, and even you know that.

 

I agree with Protest - you see confidence and assertiveness as arrogance. You have two options:

 

1. Accept that your unhappiness is a product of your 'woe-is-me' attitude and change, or

2. Accept yourself and the fact that you may or may not find a partner as you are.

 

I think number two is best, since you seem so averse to changing your attitude.

[frree]

For some reason, picturing this scenario (bf gets his ass kicked, and assailant continues to assault me, only ups the ante because he's enraged) leaves me wondering if I'd even walk out alive to make the decision to dump or not to dump. But let's assume I survive this.

 

Why would I dump him if he tried his best? It's not in my list of requirements and dealbreakers when considering a mate whether he can overwhelm anyone who ever attacks him. I'd probably love him even more for the bravery (which yes, would feel chivalrous to me.)

 

Are you suggesting I ought to dump him?

 

No I'm not suggesting you dump him. But I wouldn't hold it against you if you did. And you would be right to dump a guy who let you get hit and stood by and did nothing.

[tiredofvampires]

No I'm not suggesting you dump him. But I wouldn't hold it against you if you did.

 

Well thank you. But that's entirely too generous of you.