To all nice guys: are you too nice?

[Neutron Star]

I would say that I'm either too nice or too mean. The problem is that I can never seem to find that gray area and I think most guys who succeed with women find that gray area. They aren't a pushover but they aren't an a-hole either. They don't let women control them yet they aren't mean when they don't get their way.

It's impossible for me to find too. I'm too nice to start with and then when I try and be a little less nice I'm suddenly too mean. It's the same thing with confience. I'm a combination of not confident and cocky.

 

I just don't get it.

[Neutron Star]

First of all, I think the person or people that wrote some of those comments you quoted, is an ass (or are asses). Second, not every guy that has a problem getting a gf is gay or effeminate.

He may be an ass but she agreed with the comment and he probably has no problems meeting women. He's not gay or effeminate for showing some emotion, but he is perceived that way and perception means more than reality in the dating game it seems.

[dali]

My comment got deleted so I'll rephrase, I think being nice often comes with the attributes of lacking a backbone, being a doormat , pleasing to get your way and never standing up for yourself and most of all they are often being nice to manipulate their way into get something. A lot of those qualities are turn offs, i'd say to most people.

[Neutron Star]

and most of all they are often being nice to manipulate their way into get something.

People keep repeating this, though though there's rarely any truth to it.

[dali]

People keep repeating it because it is true, it's an unwritten contract, maybe subconsciously that if i do something nice for you I will get something in return.

[greywolf]

People keep repeating this, though though there's rarely any truth to it.[/QUote]

 

In my experience, the guys that were overly nice and went out of their way to please me always wanted something in return. So I do think there's truth to it. And I seen enough guys on here and in real life wondering why a girl didn't like him when he was so 'nice' to her. Like dali said, no one wants to be with someone who's nice only because they want that person to like them.

[Neutron Star]

People keep repeating it because it is true, it's an unwritten contract, maybe subconsciously that if i do something nice for you I will get something in return.

 

In my experience, the guys that were overly nice and went out of their way to please me always wanted something in return. So I do think there's truth to it. And I seen enough guys on here and in real life wondering why a girl didn't like him when he was so 'nice' to her. Like dali said, no one wants to be with someone who's nice only because they want that person to like them.

 

Why not tell me what was in this unwritten contract then? If I do someone nice for someone nowadays are people going to resent it because there is some unwritten contact that I don't know about?

 

If someone is nice to someone a thank you is nice but I don't expect anything in return and certain don't expect someone to date me just because I was nice to them.

 

This seems like nothing more than an attempts from people who are not nice to attack people when they are nice.

[greywolf]

Why not tell me what was in this unwritten contract then? If I do someone nice for someone nowadays are people going to resent it because there is some unwritten contact that I don't know about?

 

If someone is nice to someone a thank you is nice but I don't expect anything in return and certain don't expect someone to date me just because I was nice to them.

 

This seems like nothing more than an attempts from people who are not nice to attack people when they are nice.

 

I never said you. Maybe you've been lucky enough to meet people who are genuinely nice. I've never been so fortunate.

[Neutron Star]

I never said you. Maybe you've been lucky enough to meet people who are genuinely nice. I've never been so fortunate.

 

I hven't been lucky enough to meet anybody. I'm a combination of too nice which is resented and mean which is also resented.

[frree]

I hven't been lucky enough to meet anybody. I'm a combination of too nice which is resented and mean which is also resented.

 

Your problem is you have poor self-esteem. It's shows over every post you make. You should forget about dating until you work on that. I'm not one to preach, I have my own issues. They need to be dealt with before I even bother dating. You need to walk first before you can run.

[FathomFear]

My comment got deleted so I'll rephrase, I think being nice often comes with the attributes of lacking a backbone, being a doormat , pleasing to get your way and never standing up for yourself and most of all they are often being nice to manipulate their way into get something. A lot of those qualities are turn offs, i'd say to most people.

 

Don't you find it rather odd, though, that this complaint seems squarely targeted at straight guys? In my experience the same women who complain about guys who "lack a backbone / are a doormat" would actually qualify as lacking a backbone and being a doormat themselves.

 

I mean, when's the last time you've ever seen a post on a forum like this one written by a straight guy complaining about how his girlfriend is "too nice"? Never happens.

[greywolf]

Don't you find it rather odd, though, that this complaint seems squarely targeted at straight guys? In my experience the same women who complain about guys who "lack a backbone / are a doormat" would actually qualify as lacking a backbone and being a doormat themselves.

 

I mean, when's the last time you've ever seen a post on a forum like this one written by a straight guy complaining about how his girlfriend is "too nice"? Never happens.

 

I think it's because guys don't use those words to describe them, but you do see threads about girls that are too attached, too clingy, too needy, etc.

[FathomFear]

I think it's because guys don't use those words to describe them, but you do see threads about girls that are too attached, too clingy, too needy, etc.

 

I'm not exactly convinced that they are the same thing. The people who complain about clingly/needy get frustrated by having to deal with someone who constantly wants attention, frequent communication, and is overall "high maintenance". The people who complain about the "too nice" factor tend to bemoan a lack of "backbone", not standing up for themselves, etc. I hear the clingy/needy complaints coming from both genders. The "too nice" complaint, though, almost exclusively comes from women. To be honest it strikes me as a veiled "I want a classic knight-in-shining-armor confident boyfriend" kind of complaint more than anything else.

[frree]

Because often " too nice" in men comes with lacking a backbone. They're nice out of fear, fear of losing a woman and fear of perhaps being verbally or physically attacked by other men. A woman being "too nice" or lacking a backbone doesn't matter to most men. We men are designed to fend for the female and the offspring, so we can't lack a backbone, and if we do we'll get stepped on by women and men alike.

[Yaz]

I am looking for affection, sincere devotion and love. I want a soul mate, not just a chance to mate. I have never been the kind of guy that just wants to run around bedding every hot chick I see.

In the end I need to feel wanted and accepted by her in order for me to make her feel wanted and to accept her, and I don't feel that makes me less of a man.

 

See, I think this is really unattractive. Yeah, you want that and I think everyone does. There is a primal need for affection and love. But this is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. It's soppy and seems weak TO ME. "I just want to be loved, I want to be respected, I want, I want." IMO, that is feminine.

 

Putting that 'respectful' aura out there is probably why you have no one. I'm not attracted to men who want to give me respect and love - I am attracted to a man who finds me 'friggen hot', wants to bed me and can't keep his hands off me (as well as the obvious conversation etc.). Because that behaviour means he is genuinely, primally attracted to me. I don't want someone to justify their attraction to me with words and respect. All that other stuff comes later - all the soppiness and love and stuff.

[greywolf]

I'm not exactly convinced that they are the same thing. The people who complain about clingly/needy get frustrated by having to deal with someone who constantly wants attention, frequent communication, and is overall "high maintenance". The people who complain about the "too nice" factor tend to bemoan a lack of "backbone", not standing up for themselves, etc. I hear the clingy/needy complaints coming from both genders. The "too nice" complaint, though, almost exclusively comes from women. To be honest it strikes me as a veiled "I want a classic knight-in-shining-armor confident boyfriend" kind of complaint more than anything else.

 

Personally, I wouldn't describe it as 'too nice' because I don't believe someone can be too nice. But I do understand why someone without a backbone is unattractive, and for me it has nothing to do with wanting a knight-in-shining armor type. When you're with someone that caters to everything you want, says yes to everything, bends over backwards to please you, and never stands up for himself, what he's really saying is that he doesn't think he's very important and that you are more important to him. I want an equal.

[dali]

i think if you asked 100 women I doubt more than %5 would actually list being nice as quality they find as an attractive quality that they look for.

[Batya33]

i think if you asked 100 women I doubt more than %5 would actually list being nice as quality they find as an attractive quality that they look for.

 

That's true when passivity/lack of assertiveness is misdefined as "nice". It's actually not nice -it's pretty self-absorbed and can be manipulative.

[frree]

That's true when passivity/lack of assertiveness is misdefined as "nice". It's actually not nice -it's pretty self-absorbed and can be manipulative.

 

A lot of people who are passive and not assertive are possibly just anxious people in general. The arrogant/aggressive type is more likely to manipulative, whereas your passive type just hates conflict. Maybe that's why there's a lot of foolish women who get used and abused by narcissists and sociopaths.

[FathomFear]

I'm not attracted to men who want to give me respect and love - I am attracted to a man who finds me 'friggen hot', wants to bed me and can't keep his hands off me (as well as the obvious conversation etc.). Because that behaviour means he is genuinely, primally attracted to me. I don't want someone to justify their attraction to me with words and respect. All that other stuff comes later - all the soppiness and love and stuff.

 

There is no doubting that physical attraction starts most relationships. That's not really up for debate here. It highly debatable, though, whether it should be the core foundation in the same way you're describing it. That very well might work for someone in his or her 20s, but beyond that all of our looks start to fade and we need to hope that our relationships are built on more than just sexual desire.

[FathomFear]

Personally, I wouldn't describe it as 'too nice' because I don't believe someone can be too nice. But I do understand why someone without a backbone is unattractive, and for me it has nothing to do with wanting a knight-in-shining armor type. When you're with someone that caters to everything you want, says yes to everything, bends over backwards to please you, and never stands up for himself, what he's really saying is that he doesn't think he's very important and that you are more important to him. I want an equal.

 

I completely agree with you. I'd want the same as well. I think my point is more that this complaint typically comes from people who don't have those qualities themselves, such that it essentially becomes a double-standard. If you look at our culture as a whole, I'd say that passivity and not standing up for one's self is more of an epidemic amongst women than it is men. Just look at the number of women who don't leave abusive relationships, for example. The only reason you don't see this as a common complaint on forums like this one is that many guys simply do not demand/expect a "backbone" from their partners. If anything, this is what I think the real tragedy is and leads to all sorts of problems.

[TakingtheBlame]

A lot of people who are passive and not assertive are possibly just anxious people in general. The arrogant/aggressive type is more likely to manipulative, whereas your passive type just hates conflict. Maybe that's why there's a lot of foolish women who get used and abused by narcissists and sociopaths.

 

I still don't get why this has to be so black and white. There are plenty of people that I know who are not arrogant or manipulative, but who have strong opinions and stand up for what they believe in when it counts, issues as small as not being grossly overcharged by a cab driver to major ones like lobbying for gay marriage. They also pick their battles wisely and know when to shut up in order to avoid needless conflict. A socially and emotionally healthy person, male or female, will (and should) always encounter some conflict in their lives. It's whether they solve it constructively or destructively that, I think, should ultimately determine their personality amongst the ranks of the socially and emotionally healthy. If a person avoids conflict altogether, I'd argue he or she would have issues in every arena of life, and lack of attraction from the opposite sex would be the least of his or her worries. And who wants a life partner that hides from everything (i.e. one that is "anxious")?

[frree]

I do agree with what you say. Nobody is 100% the same in terms of personality. I know someone who was aggressive and violent against men, he was anything but anxious but acted like the so-called nice guy around women. He did often act like a doormat with his girlfriends, but no way was this guy socially anxious and he was quite handsome and had no problem attracting or talking to females, he could just never keep hold of them.

 

Just want to point out, that quite a lot of women do avoid conflict, but most men won't reject a women for this. As a matter of fact, a less dominant woman is attractive to a lot of men.

[Yaz]

Just want to point out, that quite a lot of women do avoid conflict, but most men won't reject a women for this. As a matter of fact, a less dominant woman is attractive to a lot of men.

 

True. Methinks it's all primal. Submissive men are not good breeders. And a huge turn off.

[GettingBetter]

Just curious, but where do you draw the line between being easy-going and being submissive? I thought women liked men who were easy-going...