Yaz Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 To all nice guys: are you too nice? This is just my opinion - and I invite people to comment on what is 'nice' and what is 'too nice' about men. Because a lot of men complain they're nice, but can't find women... I read this article in the newspaper recently, and you can read the whole thing at the link below. Personally, I find effeminate men really, REALLY unattractive. I think the guy who wrote this comment was spot on - what do you think? Read the letter here and the advice: link removed Link to comment
MattW Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I'm curious to hear some input on this. I consider myself a "nice guy" (who's never had a girlfriend, or even a date), but I've always wondered what the difference between "nice" and "too nice" is. Link to comment
I_Speak_Jive Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Well that's just awful. Making fun of a guy for saying he wants to hold someone. And I say this as a guy who openly admits to be a no-nonsense, not terribly touchy-feely, occasionally emotionally harsh person. It is a shameful, harmful lie that kindness and love are things reserved for women. Every emotionally healthy human being enjoys giving and receiving love, regardless of how much penis they have. That macho sex-only emotionally stunted Peter Pan crap admittedly works for a lot of people, men and women alike, but here's the thing... How much must someone hate themselves, in order to feel repulsed by the idea of someone wanting to hold them? To be nice to them? I do what I do with other guys, and it works great for me. I never promise more than what I can give, and I am often selfish and focused on what I want, but I play fair and make sure things work as best as they can for the both of us. I think that makes me a "nice guy". I get more love, affection and attention from other guys than anyone else I know, way more than I can realistically ever "use". The idea that you need to be some sort of cold-hearted user in order to get anywhere in life is complete bullcrap, and extremely disconnected from my own reality. Now plenty of people out there will only respond to being treated like dirt, and that's their prerogative. If that's what floats their boat... more power to them. But to make universal assumptions about "masculine" or "effeminate" behaviour, and about what is un-normative and un-desirable about men behaving like full-fledged humans, is -- in my humble opinion -- really messed up. Link to comment
frree Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Nice guy basically = shy guy with no confidence. Crying about not holding a woman's hand is quite feminine. The higher the testosterone the less likely a man will think this way. People with high testosterone cry less also. I think the nice guy/bad guy think is over-exaggerated. Basically be a man who's wealthy and you're pretty in with most women. You can look like the penguin man from Batman Return's but you'll still get plenty of women all over you. Link to comment
Alezia Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Nice Guy: (A positive) If he has a different opinion on a matter, he will try to understand the other person's point of view. He may make a compromise if it's a logical issue. Will discuss frankly and is opinonated. He will always be there for the person when there is a crucial matter (death, wedding, loss of job etc...) He is weary of who he helps out financially and is able to distinguish if someone requires help or if they are simply using them He has confidence to have his own interests outside the relationship He has career ambition and will seek to gain some type of recognition by helping others, attending social functions, being in committees etc... Feels he has self worth and personal motives/objectives even though he is not in a relationship. I'm sure there is more, it was just easier to list things I've dealth with from personal experience. "Too Nice" of a Guy: (When it turns negative) Is a "yes" type man. Even if he knows you are completely dellusional. He cannot give you a dose of the sometimes needed harsh reality. If you cry because you want a dog even though it's not financially savvy or the situation is not logical, he'll still buy you one with a bow. Cannot deal with you going out with friends (guys or girls) even if he is invited. He would rather you spend your entire weekend alone with him. Has jealousy issues and/or deep rooted insecurities that make him 'cling' to you. If you are not going out with him. This guy will try to ask you out several times over the span of multiple years, even if you decline every single time. You can dump him several times in a row, and keeps wanting to go out with you. Will do silly things, such as giving money he does not have, just in order to be 'liked'. Link to comment
Yaz Posted June 25, 2011 Author Share Posted June 25, 2011 It is true that niceness can be neediness and clinginess. These things are just as unattractive in a woman, as they are in a man. But being effeminate is different, to me. I've been out with nice guys and effeminate guys. There's a huge difference I can't seem to put into words. Edit: does it have something to do with begging for comfort? A nice man assesses the situation, makes sure the woman is comfortable and takes action - initiates. The effeminate man waits, and wonders why the woman doesn't take action, and then feels sorry for himself. He doesn't initiate, or "act like a man". Does a female with a masculine aura turn men off? Link to comment
Alezia Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 My man loves to be hugged, spooned and he loves to get his back scratched or massaged. He'll ask for attention, and it doesn't bother me. I've never seen it as a bad thing - more of an intimate moment we share. If he went screaming out the world that he feels unloved and desperately needs to be touched by someone, that's another matter. I just hate it when people start blaming and clinging on to everyone. I know of someone who has memorized every touch he's encountered in the month - that to me is where it reaches the extreme of non-attractiveness. It's true that I like my men to take charge in the relationship. As much as we have a much more modernized tradition, there's something hot about a making being confident and approaching the woman first. I prefer traditional dinner dating where the man pays - pitch eggs at me for admitting it. Honestly, I don't want to open doors or pull a chair for my man. I don't expect the guy to do those for me when dating (actually none of them ever did except for coworkers), but if he complained that I should as we are now equals, it would be a turn off. Link to comment
Yaz Posted June 25, 2011 Author Share Posted June 25, 2011 Honestly, I don't want to open doors or pull a chair for my man. Good point! I think the men I've dated that are effeminate have taken 'equality' to a stupid and unattractive level. If they put effort into a woman, they expect to be treated the same way. The same way a woman is treated in a traditional old-fashioned style relationship - having doors opened, surprise gifts, being pitied and fawned over in general. Ugh. I'll show a guy appreciation for his efforts, and make efforts for him, but I'm not going to treat him like a woman. Link to comment
frree Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I don't believe in chivalry personally. I also believe for dinner dates both should pay half each. If a woman refuses to pay her way then we won't be going on a dinner date in the first place. Saying that, I don't expect nor want a woman to open doors for me either. I have hands that are capable of opening doors, I don't expect others to open them for me, nor do I expect nor want to see a woman demand I open a door for her. Link to comment
Yaz Posted June 25, 2011 Author Share Posted June 25, 2011 I don't believe in chivalry personally. I also believe for dinner dates both should pay half each. If a woman refuses to pay her way then we won't be going on a dinner date in the first place. Saying that, I don't expect nor want a woman to open doors for me either. I have hands that are capable of opening doors, I don't expect others to open them for me, nor do I expect nor want to see a woman demand I open a door for her. See, that's fair and nice! And not effeminate. Link to comment
Alezia Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I don't know. I will always offer to pay my half, but if the guy lets me pay, it kind of ruins my sexual attraction in a way by assuming he's not really into me. He would have to make up in other ways to make sure his interest is known (without getting too physical since I don't want to move that on too fast if I aim for something serious). Link to comment
Alezia Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I prefer doing something like the man pays for dinner and I'll pay for drinks later if we go elsewhere, rather than just splitting a dinner bill. That's just so business like or friend like to me, that I am not really for it. I even pick up tabs for my guy friends or my bf's friends when we go to the bar (10$ pitchers), so I don't know... it would just seem off to me if I had to 'pay my portion of the meal'. I guess I've just been extremely lucky with all the guys I've dated. Link to comment
greywolf Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I think it's sexy when a man acts a little feminine from time to time. Link to comment
Yaz Posted June 25, 2011 Author Share Posted June 25, 2011 I think it's sexy when a man acts a little feminine from time to time. Oh man, I can't leave that alone. How? Why? Where? When? WHAT?! Please, please explain that to me! Link to comment
greywolf Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Oh man, I can't leave that alone. How? Why? Where? When? WHAT?! Please, please explain that to me! I just think it's sexy when people are comfortable in their own skin and act however they want, regardless of whether society considers it feminine or not. Link to comment
Yaz Posted June 25, 2011 Author Share Posted June 25, 2011 I just think it's sexy when people are comfortable in their own skin and act however they want, regardless of whether society considers it feminine or not. Fair enough. I just find men who need to be doted on, and get all hurt when they aren't, very unattractive. Repellant, even. Link to comment
greywolf Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Fair enough. I just find men who need to be doted on, and get all hurt when they aren't, very unattractive. Repellant, even. I don't equate femininity with neediness. Link to comment
Bluesman89 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I'm don't believe being nice or not really plays much of a part in whether or not a guy get's a girlfriend. All this is is another one of the little sprinkles of hope fed out to the hopelessly single men. Pretty damn useless to be honest. I know one particular extremely nice and gentle guy (same age as me) who has a girlfriend and she's not his first either. What he does have is olive skin, a foreign accent and good looks. I know a few others too. Link to comment
tiredofvampires Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 There's something a bit perplexing in a kind of disturbing way about this thread, Yaz. Because the guys you've been with in the past are such colossal a-holes, they should be harnessed as wind energy. These men are the ones who epitomize masculinity that plays by the "rules" with the most hardcore devotion -- don't cry, don't be a girlie man, stiff upper lip, be a tough SOB and show 'em. My-balls-have-their-own-barbell-set men. These are the men that have stomped on your feelings, your heart, and shoveled out some of the most astounding sexist attitudes I've ever read about on this board, second-hand. But the fact that you can't appreciate a man who becomes vulnerable at times plays right into this, so in a way -- you're as thoroughly indoctrinated to enable them as they are happy to keep perpetuating their own stereotype. I don't feel like a guy should have to stifle his emotions, including the desire to be comforted from time to time, or to shed a tear, or to openly enjoy and seek affection. I wouldn't like it if he were whiny or sobbing at every turn, or pleading...but wanting to be physically doted on I'm more than glad to provide (so long as it's not to a suffocating degree, but that goes for anything we do together). I'm pretty affectionate and demonstrative in my relationships, so usually this hasn't come up...but if it did, I might ask myself if I'd been retreating for some reason and what that was about. I've always felt that when men broke down crying it was a compliment of the highest order. Because it takes a lot of trust for a guy to allow himself that. Maybe with all the history you've had, Yaz, you'd be doing yourself a favor to give the guys who go against your grain in this way half a chance. It might be a big break for you. Because guys that allow themselves more latitude to feel stuff sometimes honor your feelings more. I find the best balance of man is one who is assertive in the world where it's required, but behind closed doors can let his guard down. Link to comment
dog stevens Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I would say that I'm either too nice or too mean. The problem is that I can never seem to find that gray area and I think most guys who succeed with women find that gray area. They aren't a pushover but they aren't an a-hole either. They don't let women control them yet they aren't mean when they don't get their way. Link to comment
Jake Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Yaz I believe there is a balance when it comes to all this. You don't want to be in a relationship with a guy that is your tool who takes whatever he can get from you but at the same time don't date guys who are rocks emotionally that they can easily discard you to the side of the road once they're done using you. The best balance is a guy who's there for you in solidness but who also knows to let his "soft spot" be yours. Link to comment
timlondon Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 It is true that niceness can be neediness and clinginess. These things are just as unattractive in a woman, as they are in a man. But being effeminate is different, to me. I've been out with nice guys and effeminate guys. There's a huge difference I can't seem to put into words. The term "nice guy" is so completely the wrong word for men's behaviour in almost all cases it's used - it should really be "doormat" or "supplicant" depending on the stage of a relationship. These guys think that just by being nice they should somehow suddenly be allowed into a woman's pants. What you're talking above is a little bit different, where a guy in a relationship loses all the stereotypically attractive masculine traits. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being nice to your girlfriend - in fact it's critical - but that doesn't mean you let go of your self-identity, boundaries and ability to lead. I'm a nice guy, but I'm pretty direct with what I want. Edit: does it have something to do with begging for comfort? A nice man assesses the situation, makes sure the woman is comfortable and takes action - initiates. The effeminate man waits, and wonders why the woman doesn't take action, and then feels sorry for himself. He doesn't initiate, or "act like a man". Does a female with a masculine aura turn men off? Not sure exactly what you mean by "masculline aura", I really like slightly tomboyish women as they tend to be great fun, but still need to be feminine. Otherwise I'd just be going out with a man I guess! Link to comment
GettingBetter Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I would consider one of my greatest strengths to be my ability to absorb negative energy from others and dispel it. On the outside, it may look like I'm taking a lot of crap. But, I don't feel like that threatens my manhood -- and I hope others don't either. Being able to remain calm really does put you in control. (I know that some in my past have gotten needlessly defensive for me, when I felt I had the situation completely under control.) For those who know me very well, they've probably seen me break down emotionally a time or two. Sometimes it just happens -- it really does happen to all of us. I know that many think of me as the type who's "solid as a rock," but that's only because they don't know me well enough. And I am a "rock" 99% of the time. But, maybe once a year or so, I go down for a couple of days, sort things out, "defrag" and then continue on. Those are very beneficial episodes for me, and nothing I'm ashamed of. They help me to put things into perspective, and remind me that I'm human. But yes, I believe some have discarded me as a "nice guy." Link to comment
Sparkly Eyes Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Nice guy basically = shy guy with no confidence. Crying about not holding a woman's hand is quite feminine. The higher the testosterone the less likely a man will think this way. People with high testosterone cry less also. I think the nice guy/bad guy think is over-exaggerated. Basically be a man who's wealthy and you're pretty in with most women. You can look like the penguin man from Batman Return's but you'll still get plenty of women all over you. Yeah, only if you are talking about golddiggers and poor women. I don't give a crap how wealthy a man is if I don't like how he looks. Link to comment
frree Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Yeah, only if you are talking about golddiggers and poor women. I don't give a crap how wealthy a man is if I don't like how he looks. Being wealthy gives you a huge advantage. It's nothing to do with being a golddigger, women want security, and they get that with a wealthy man. Link to comment
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