What's with his Flip-flopping?

[ElliDi]

We're both over 40, both divorced for a number of years. I'm not interested in getting married now but as a general idea, I do believe in marriage and someday want that again. (Who knows when, but not sooner than 5-6 years)

We've known each other for 4 years, but only started dating about 9 months ago.

 

He's always said he'll never marry again. I've always said "fine, then one day I might want to find someone who wants what I want, and you might do the same." And we're both ok with that. We really love each other and are just enjoying the time we share, which is wonderful. I know by his actions, words, facial expressions, etc. how much he loves me. I've never met a man who made me feel more loved and adored, and he's not shy about telling me how he feels about me.

 

But about marriage he's said to me- "if we would have met years before, I would have married you!" and "what would being married be like?" and "If we were married we could make love all the time" (things of that nature) and when I said "you're not the marrying kind" he's almost surprised and says, "who said so???"

 

Recently, when some relationship talk came up, he says stuff like "but you know I'll never ever marry or live with anyone ever!! bla bla bla" So once again when I said, "I understand. But one day I'll want more than that", he starts dropping hints about how things could change, never say never, and you never know, and quickly admits that yes oh yes oh yes, he would dearly love to be in a happy marriage...

 

I said to him "You of all people want to be loved and understood and adored in a close relationship. But since that hasn't worked out in the past, you'd rather keep your freedom and your space than try it again -- because you're afraid." He readily agreed with everything (almost with a sense of relief) and later that night said he was really really glad we'd talked.

 

I've always thought that when a man says what he wants/who he is, listen. I've broken off with men who were anti-marriage because at least being open to the idea is important to me.

I feel he could be different, it's only been 9 months, and maybe with more time ...but.... how many times does a woman think that? I don't want to be a fool either.

What do you think?

[SapphireNoir10]

Hes made it pretty clear where he stands. Whats the point in wasting another two years or so hoping he MIGHT change his mind.

[DN]

Is he scared of marriage or divorce?

[JonasWaingaro]

Honestly I agree, I would take him at his word. All the wishy washy stuff sounds nice but he's being pretty clear on where he stands on marriage. If you are fine with living that way for a while then it's all good but I wouldn't bank on him changing his mind.

[ElliDi]

Is he scared of marriage or divorce?

 

He's afraid being trapped in a lousy, sexless, passionless marriage with an indifferent wife who doesn't care about him or his needs (again).

[bulletproof]

I know he said he wasn't into the idea of living together, but is he slightly more flexible on that point? I just feel that if you both have been married before, maybe living together is the compromise. At least then he can't use the excuse of fearing a loveless marriage- he's free to leave anytime, as are you.

[lavenderdove]

I would never pressure anyone to marry me after only dating 9 months... it takes longer than that to really be sure that you are compatible with the person. I wouldn't expect an engagement myself before 18-24 months at earliest.

 

But if he's made strong pronouncements that he'll never do it again, then if marriage is important to you, he might not be the guy for you. He might feel different if you give him a year or two to realize you are good for each other, but if he is adamantly opposed, he may never marry again.

[DN]

He's afraid being trapped in a lousy, sexless, passionless marriage with an indifferent wife who doesn't care about him or his needs (again).

Did he specifically say that?

[ElliDi]

Did he specifically say that?

 

He explained how that's what went wrong in his first marriage and subsequent LTR. He says what we have is the best thing he's ever had in his life, and is afraid marriage would ruin it because "it always does". He wants to date forever, assuming we'll always keep the excitement and passion if we have our own homes "together but separate".

 

Incidentally, he's the one who's always waxing poetic about the idea of a wonderful marriage with me, and I play along, assuming it's pillow talk. (Example - Him: what would it be like if we were married? Me: Oh, a homecooked meal every night, and passionate love for dessert). To me, that's pillow talk, but when he brings it up, it throws me. When talk turned to a reality-based discussion, he went with his "I'll never marry" thing.

 

I've told him: I'm perfectly OK with how things are now- I love being with you- but I'd want to think the idea isn't totally off the table a few of years down the line. If that's not you, then I'm not going to try to change you. I'll want someone who feels the same as me. But I like how things are now!

 

So I'm hearing from him- "being married to you would be a dream come true! But I'll never ever get married/live together again. Though you never known because everything in life changes."

Huh?

 

 

 

PS Thanks for all your input everyone-- I appreciate it

[DN]

It's a bit like being burned by a flame. You don't want to get burned again but you do want to enjoy it's warmth and comfort. So long as you keep it near but not too near you will be OK.

[Lucidity]

One thing you dont mention in your OP is if the both of you have only ever been in but ONE prior marriage....??

 

Trust me on this, if he is in his 40's, he is going to be dealing with a lot of things...like his career, his financial solidity, children/grandchildren from his previous marriage(s), and most importantly - him nearing that mid-life point where success and libido are at constant odds with each other. There are also a couple of things that you mention that makes me feel that he is clearly communicating his wishes here, like wanting to maintain separate households. This is clearly non-committal on both of your parts, and he could be thinking that you are the one who wants to maintain this, which might be causing his perceived "flip-flopping" on your part. You also mention conversations that you think are serious along with conversations that you conclude are "pillowtalk", and this indicates that there might be more of a communication issue at work here than you realize. I dont know about other men, but I never say things that I dont mean, even if it's considered pillow-talk by my SO. Else it would come off as manipulative and deceitful if I said things, made promises or offered things with no intentions of ever following thru with them. It almost sounds as if you are being a bit fickle in getting to be the one who is determining what he says as "pillow-talk, and what he says when you think the both of you are in a serious discussion. One thing however is for certain, either you will want to marry this guy, or you wont. Period. But only you can determine what you will want out of this relationship, and the day you find that out, you wont be able to claim that he is going to "flip-flop" on you if you havent done your part in making him feel just as secure in the relationship as you want to be.

[ElliDi]

It almost sounds as if you are being a bit fickle in getting to be the one who is determining what he says as "pillow-talk, and what he says when you think the both of you are in a serious discussion. One thing however is for certain, either you will want to marry this guy, or you wont. Period.

...

But only you can determine what you will want out of this relationship, and the day you find that out, you wont be able to claim that he is going to "flip-flop" on you if you havent done your part in making him feel just as secure in the relationship as you want to be.

OMG you're right. I haven't done my part in making him feel secure about this relationship.

Thank you for pointing that out. I need to think about my own words and behavior.

[tresqua]

I'm mid 40s, been married once and I'll never do it again, I think the whole marriage concept is a sham, people walk away from marriage as quickly as they do a non "legal" relationship, all that marriage does is tie you into the sloppy, careless, incompetent and corrupt court system and make it difficult to get out of a bad relationship.

 

I would consider living with a woman again but marriage is OUT and I let them know that early on. He's got the right idea, why repeat your bad mistakes rather than learning something from them?