GrowingIn Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 First of all I don't know that my assessment of the situation is right which is why I said I would have to hear both sides of the story. I DO know that the truth is always somewhere in the middle however. I do understand that it takes two to make a marriage, and I need to hear both sides of the story before I give advice on divorce or separation. I automatically revert to staying together if I feel like I'm only getting one side. I look at it like this. If you're single I'm your friend. If you're in a marriage, I'm your marriage's friend. Unless there is clear and undeniable evidence of one person truly doing wrong, I don't advocate separation or divorce. If you are asking for my personal feelings on the matter, I'm pro-marriage and to me distress is not a reason to advocate divorce, so yeah they should stay married and work this stuff out. I do know divorce has huge psychological impacts on children. And anyone that willingly admits her husband is 80% a wonderful man, just doesn't want to put up with the 20% that is crap is just immature, unrealistic and most likely NOT thinking clearly. What were your expectations of marriage to begin with? What was "the bad" part of the marriage that you had agreed to put up with when you initially committed? I think this is a perfect example of "the bad" that a person is supposed to deal with and work on for a marriage to work. It's just like a job. If you are a data entry clerk, then over the span of a life time, guess what? You are going to have some serious abuse on your lower back and eyes from sitting down on a chair and starring at a computer screen. That IS part of the job that you endure. The most you can do is get a better chair, learn how to rest your eyes. But you should never expect that if you sit on your ass in a chair all your life, your back isn't going to have some issues. You can't go: "well I didn't sign up for this. I wanted to sit on my ass all day and type and make money, but I don't want the back pain, eye soreness, and arthritis that comes along with it. That's abuse. Naaah....that's work and that's life." She's unsatisfied with her job as a housewife because she doesn't feel she's been rewarded fairly from it and appreciated it by her husband. I get it. But nobody here seems to be aware of the fact that clearly this man IS ALSO bothered by some things she is doing or not doing and ALSO putting up with these things that are bothersome to him. Who is more right to be bothered, again, I do not know. In the end it's not even about who's right. It's actually that kind of attitude that makes marriages go bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lester Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 My book taught me the differences between a man and woman. I grew up thinking women were just like me. Man was I wrong. You’re book, (being a guy I only skimmed it), I hope will do the same. “If only he knew” saved my marriage. At this juncture I won’t suggest “If only” to your husband. I think he’s a nut and needs to be in the care of a psychiatrist. Hang in there... I'll say a prayer for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphim Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 The thing is you are not going to hear both sides. That is just the way it goes. 99% of the time on here you will hear ONE side and that is it. The 1% that you hear both sides is almost instantly shut down and the people are banned because it is not promoting a good atmosphere for the site. They do not want the drama of people have cat fights online which is what it always comes down to. People can not also be free to speak their mind if they feel their SO is "eagle watching" the site for everything the other says. That is not what this site is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lester Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Dear Growing, You keep missing the point and need to have a cream soda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermom10 Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 Victoria-- thats tough. I think it is a different ball game when mental illness is involved. When his bad attitude and unwillingness to improve himself has a negative impact on your/your kids emotional well-being is when I think its time to consider leaving. Which is the point I am at. Ive been fighting this for a long time. I started this thread out by saying I know marriages are hard.. certain arguments are normal.. just like the back pain is to be expected. But there still has to be a line, limits, boundaries. Certain behaviors are unacceptable no matter the circumstances. Yes things could work out if he were more open to trying new things.. support groups.. anger management... im ready and willing to try and do anything he asks of me. But it takes two to feel that way to make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermom10 Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 I agree on the cream soda.. and if your so against everyone and just trying to me mr in the middle.. then why are you on this site.. or in the divorce section? Thanks everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphim Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Victoria-- thats tough. I think it is a different ball game when mental illness is involved. When his bad attitude and unwillingness to improve himself has a negative impact on your/your kids emotional well-being is when I think its time to consider leaving. Which is the point I am at. Ive been fighting this for a long time. I started this thread out by saying I know marriages are hard.. certain arguments are normal.. just like the back pain is to be expected. But there still has to be a line, limits, boundaries. Certain behaviors are unacceptable no matter the circumstances. Yes things could work out if he were more open to trying new things.. support groups.. anger management... im ready and willing to try and do anything he asks of me. But it takes two to feel that way to make it work. You are right. It takes two. I know you consider marriage to be very important, but not marriage at ANY cost. Mental illness is VERY tricky. I have spent most of my life with mentally ill people and it wears you down till you have almost no energy or life left. It is like living with an emotional vampire. People do not understand that until they live in the situation. They do not understand WHY someone would not want to try and assume the other person is at fault some how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lester Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 We men are capable of incredible change but many times it takes an earthquake to get us going. That's the hard part. We can be very pig-headed right up to a loss. Some of us do change. Don't expect it to be easy. Only you can tell if it's worth the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrowingIn Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Look up the rate of divorce from two individuals coming from divorced families for one thing. Look up statistics on suicide, depression, job and education performance from men that were raised without a father. It's all there. Believe me. Ask the men on this website that are having difficulties in relationships and are usually the ones that get taken advantage of by women or left by them. Look at the number of pregnant young girls that become victims, sexually active at a young age. You will notice a pattern and they usually have one thing in common: missing father. My parents have been divorced since the age of 2. My mother gave me everything she could. She was, like you, SUPERmom. To her surprise at the age of 29 I'm seeking out the man I only met 6-7 times in my lifetime, the one that was abusive, for answers that she could never help me with and now I cannot establish a relationship with him. I could be selfish and say he's irresponsible and doesn't care, but deep down, that doesn't even matter. I forgive him, and just want to establish some kind of connection, and I'm afraid now that is too late. But what I have learned, and sure enough so did she, is that a woman, or a mother, as SUPER as she is, can never prepare a man or teach a man how to be a man. Only a man can. And a mother or wife can never teach a son how to be a father or a husband. Only a father or a husband can. Because children and young adults, when it comes to behavior, they learn it through observation and example. Not advice. It just doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrowingIn Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I agree on the cream soda.. and if your so against everyone and just trying to me mr in the middle.. then why are you on this site.. or in the divorce section? Thanks everyone Because I wanna help make the world a better place. Because I believe everything nowadays is geared so much more towards divorce and separation, and I believe society is destroying families, NOT making them better. Because I believe people are losing sight of what marriage means. Because I wanna be the opposing force on the other side, because I BELIEVE in the importance of marriage and family. And because it is priceless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphim Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 ^^^It IS priceless however when your spouse is not treating it like that, are you supposed to stay at ANY cost, no. When someone is addicted to pills and has a mental illness and is totally not co operative you HAVE to weigh what is better. I was partially raised by a severely mentally ill parent, from birth to 6 and from 13 to 23. I can tell you my life was HORRIFIC. My father allowed me to be sexually abused by one of his family members, he was INCREDIBLY abusive to my mother, he ignored my brother and I and did not care where we were, only that we did not bother him for ANY reason. He allowed me to have broken bones and not take my to the dr because it was " a pain in the a$$ to take me to a dr".Is that life better? I can tell you it was not. I have horrible emotional scars from that life. I have PTSD from that life. When we were just with our mother or when she was married to my first step dad my brother and I were doing AWESOME and had a great life.So, yes marriage IS priceless, but NOT at ANY cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrowingIn Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 It IS priceless however when your spouse is not treating it like that, are you supposed to stay at ANY cost, no. When someone is addicted to pills and has a mental illness and is totally not co operative you HAVE to weigh what is better. I was partially raised by a severely mentally ill parent, from birth to 6 and from 13 to 23. I can tell you my life was HORRIFIC. My father allowed me to be sexually abused by one of his family members, he was INCREDIBLY abusive to my mother, he ignored my brother and I and did not care where we were, only that we did not bother him for ANY reason. Is that life better? I can tell you it was not. I have horrible emotional scars from that life. I have PTSD from that life. So, yes marriage IS priceless, but NOT at ANY cost. Of course that's not a situation one stays in. That's not exactly what's happening here. I even said above I would only recommend separation or divorce if there was evidence of clear abuse, molestation, etc. Which in your case, it is clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphim Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 ^^ Have you ever dealt with a mentally ill person though? She said her husband has been diagnosed as severely depressed. That is mental illness. He does not want his medication, he does not want counseling and he wants to abuse prescription pills. You see no danger there? I do. Living with a mentally ill parent is NO fun. Also today MANY kids who have divorced parents live half time with one parent and half time with the other. They can learn plenty how to be a MAN or WOMAN in the half week they spend with their parent of whoever they need the image from. My brother is an AWESOME man and he did not model himself after his father. His father was abusive,lazy and useless as a parent. Instead he modeled himself after his mother, he is hard working and honest and an outstanding father to his 3 daughters and spends every moment with them when he is not at work playing games with them,taking them to their karate and ballet and swimming and other lessons. He reads to them every night and tucks them in. He provides them an excellent living and has their education already funded and they are not any of them over 10 years old yet. He takes them all over the world. He is NOTHING like his father. You CAN model yourself after your opposite parent. You CAN overcome bad parenting or no parenting from your opposite parent but you have to WANT to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrowingIn Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 See this is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. You just went to a completely different place and played doctor based on someone else's description. How can you do that? She also said her husband is 80% wonderful. He's a man who seems to be working long and odd hours(night shift) who sleeps during the day with 3 children and not getting along with his wife. Could his depression have anything to do with that? I don't think Prozac is going to fix all that. You don't know. Honestly, you are digging way deep now and not trying to be objective. If you want to find something wrong in a person, you will. Any person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lester Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Because I wanna help make the world a better place. Because I believe everything nowadays is geared so much more towards divorce and separation, and I believe society is destroying families, NOT making them better. Because I believe people are losing sight of what marriage means. Because I wanna be the opposing force on the other side, because I BELIEVE in the importance of marriage and family. And because it is priceless. Dear Growing We also want to save marriages but know it can only be done one at a time. Super can’t change the world. She may be able to save her marriage but she has to prudent. First She has to be safe. Second She has to protect and keep her children safe. Third She has to try to save her marriage. (This is why she’s here.) No husband goes from the altar of marriage to committing violence against his family in one fell swoop. With the wife’s appeasement it happens over time with ever increasingly anger and violence. The worst examples of violence against wives/kids found daily in the newspapers all started with the smallest, unchecked, disrespectful comment uttered by the husband. The wife’s noble reaction is to preserve the family unfortunately is taken as weakness. This appeasement only serves to turn the marriage into a nightmare for the wife and kids. It gets worse… sometimes much worse. I sense this from Super’s original post. I certainly do not want to see her marriage fail…but also do not want the situation to decline any further. Appeasement kills marriages and sometimes much more. It’s too bad wives fall into this trap by waiting too long. A better scenario would be the following for all newlyweds: At the exact moment of the first disrespectful, over the line statement, regardless of location and company, (Coward husbands hate public displays…but this increases the wife’s leverage exponentially.) The wife should say. Excuse me? What did you just say? You will never talk to me such manner ever again! I’m not your kid. If you ever do I will leave you. I’m not afraid to start all over. I don’t care how hard it is. I will work two jobs to be free of you. Again, that’s the first and last time you ever talk to me like that! So Grow, want to save marriages? Teach the above to every young un-married girl you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphim Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 GrowingIn let's not pretend you are totally objective ok? Everyone is a sum of experiences, as you state yours. You feel victimized at NOT having your dad in your life, so now you are out to save every marriage you can......why?? You stated your reason right there in print. THAT is NOT objective. No one is entirely objective because they have opinions and life experience so let's not pretend I am not objective and I am playing dr and you are not. Everyone on here has an OPINION. No one is playing de they are giving an OPINION. I can see you do not agree with mine and that is fine. You have different experience than I do. Also too I am giving supermom the credit of having a brain as I said before and give her credit to have the knowledge to know what applies to her, what makes sense to her and what can help her. I DO value marriage very much as I have been married for 17 years. Through thick and thin and good and hell on earth and losing 4 babies and having a living child with developmental and learning disabilities, a husband with a severe anxiety issue that requires medication and therapy, the fact he is in the military and is gone at least 6 months of every year. If you do not think I value marriage and want to save every marriage that is salvageable you are dead wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrowingIn Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Lester, she didn't come here asking how to save her marriage. Again, from everything in the OP, she's asking if she's wrong to want to split up her family over situations as the one she described. It appears to me she's looking for people to back her up. She also got defensive at the fact that I disagree and would rather not hear what I have to say. That pretty much says it all, no? So I'm just going to keep it simple. Based on everything she said my opinion is yes she is wrong. There are a million other choices and actions she can take before getting to that step, and I sense she's not interested in even making the effort. You sense what you wanna sense and personally I think you are reading way too much into one person's point of view and drawing up a lot of assumptions based on way too little information. Personally, I sense something different and it is exactly what I said above. Yeah there is nothing wrong with teaching someone not to be a victim IN her marriage(but once again this is something you can't even identify by one person's point of view....people play victims all the time and a lot of times roles change depending on the circumstances) but you should be careful teaching people to use threats, since most of the time threatening of leaving DOES NOT WORK and it is entirely unhealthy behavior! It becomes habitual. "If you don't do this, I will leave". Horrible advice, imo. And it should only be used when it is really the last option, not over any disagreement, or communication issue, or house chores, or whatever. But again, she is not asking for advice on saving her marriage. If she was, I'd be happy to put my two cents in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrowingIn Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I think you still misunderstand. My personal viewpoint of when it's ok to go for separation or divorce is certainly not objective and I never claimed such a thing. I am also certainly not 100% objective on ENA, because I feel it's quite one sided when it comes to gender. Like I said, I'm just here to try and restore some balance. But you are confusing objectivity in this case: 1. My viewpoint on on what constitutes motives for divorce: not objective. 2. My viewpoint on when it is appropriate to pass judgment on the topic of separation or divorce IS objective: when you have both sides of the story. When it comes to this topic, I think of it like a courtroom. I'm part of the jury. Unfortunately only the prosecutor is present and the defense is missing, yet people are still passing a verdict. I'm willing to bet money if her husband came in here and made a thread: I am depressed. I work 12 hours a day, I work the night shift. I bring in the money and my wife doesn't keep up her end of the bargain. She doesn't take care of the chores on time and I ask her repeatedly to change her routine but she still continues to not want to make a change. When I try to bring it to her attention she snaps back and tells me "you do it!". She handles the finances, I give her plenty of money, but the bills still come in late. I am fed up, frustrated and falling deeper and deeper into a depression. When I say anything she just threatens to leave. Etc, etc etc. All of a sudden he is the victim. Get my point? You cannot figure out who the victim is in a relationship from one person's viewpoint. Sometimes it's one, sometimes it's both, sometimes it's actually the other person because one person is always playing the victim(this happens quite often). You don't know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphim Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Ok but the reason you are frustrated is you WANT the whole story and wont accept you are not going to get it. I do not think ENA is gender specific. You see plenty _o _men giving their married woes on here and we do not hear from the wife and vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrowingIn Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Once again, that's incorrect. I am not frustrated because I want the full story. I personally chose to refrain and practice self restrain when it comes to supporting people in their decision of separation or divorce if it is obvious I'm only getting half the story. What frustrates me is not enough other people doing this especially if it is a woman making the complaint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lester Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 You repeatedly say we don't know because we are only hearing one side of story but then you say... "Based on everything she said my opinion is yes she is wrong." The stardard you want us to follow you don't follow yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrowingIn Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Really? Read again! Where in there am I advocating separation or divorce? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphim Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Once again, that's incorrect. I am not frustrated because I want the full story. I personally chose to refrain and practice self restrain when it comes to supporting people in their decision of separation or divorce if it is obvious I'm only getting half the story. What frustrates me is not enough other people doing this especially if it is a woman making the complaint. Ok but you can not force on other people what YOU want them to do. Right? Grown people are going to do and say what they like based on their own experience no matter if you like it or not. You can complain about it of course, but I am going to do what I feel is right in my estimation,as far as giving my advice. As Lester pointed out, you are trying to make a standard for people based on what YOU think it is right and based on one half of a story you have told this woman she is wrong based on YOUR estimation of her side, so you are not really holding to your judgement free until you hear both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphim Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Anyway, I have stated my point and you have stated yours and they do not mesh and I am not worried about it. Supermom knows what is what in her relationship and she is going to decide what best suits her, and I passed on what I think and I do not need to reiterate it further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lester Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Growing, Being incorrigible does not make you right. You continually miss the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.