help me figure things out... if you can read this much

[misssmithviii]

Reading only what's bolded will give the basic outline.

 

History (there's so many other details left out because it'd be even longer with them):

 

I met your typical 'bad boy' at 16, he (Andrew) was 18.

We had a tumultuous, burning and passionate relationship involving drugs. We were carefree and crazy in obsessive love.

I got pregnant at 17. I quit everything once I found out, but he had trouble quitting. I kept the baby because I couldn't stomach getting an abortion, and he promised and assured me we'd stay together, get married and live a beautiful life.

The bigger I got, the more he wavered - beginning to flirt with other women, craving others' attention. I tried to make it work, while he only said he tried.

 

After giving birth, we were very close. Until he began acting irresponsibly again (as I should've seen coming). He left me at home all night to take care of her alone while he lied about being at work. It was obvious too because his store closed at 10pm but he came home every night at 3am - coincidentally when the strip club that my sister worked at, closed.

I found a crack pipe in his jeans as I cleaned the room one day. The jeans were tucked between the dresser and the wall. I confronted him about it fearlessly and he became abusive. (Little did I know at the time I was already being emotionally abused)

He tried to get clean (again) and got medication. He started going to rehab meetings (as far as I knew).

 

He refused to keep clean. I somehow thought we could still work it out - I blamed his 'disease' and not him. All up until one night...

He was out late and I was tired, needed help with our 1.5 month old daughter. I borrowed his friend's phone to text him, and after I sent the text, this smart phone's text history showed up of course. It goes without saying I found that he was going out (having sex) with other girls. This... this was my last straw. I gathered his things and threw them out.

He resented me.

We tried to keep making it work, but failed each time. He had grown to be physically abusive with me. Once he even dragged me by my hair accross the floor and slammed my head into the hardwood. He poisoned my mind... I LET him poison my mind... and I was scared to be without him. I became dependent after all the isolation and abuse. I had the stupid idea that maybe if I were 'bad' we could work out together, and he convinced me it was the only way. I used the drugs ONCE, but felt too guilty for words and when the police came for him, I told them to take me too.

 

A friend I recently got to know picked me up from the holding cell and he tried to help me get through it all. He was this nearly angelic force in my life, ever-so-gently helping me, unconditionally being there for me. This friend, Steven, gave me the courage and the confidence to stand up for myself.

 

So, shortly after these pointless efforts with Andrew, I finally told him I was done. Absolutely done. He proceeded to accuse me of being high - he said (w/o the cuss words) "You're high! That's the only way you're doing this, you're high!" He held me down, tugging my arm so tight and violently he ripped my skin. He squeezed my face so tight it broke my lip, and slapped me around telling me to stop screaming. Meanwhile my older sister (the stripper without a conscience) walked back inside saying, "Not my problem" after I begged for her to call the police.

 

I called Steven, who gave me the courage and self-respect to leave the abusive Andrew while I was running for my life. Andrew chased me with his car, then got out and grabbed me - dragging me into the car. Steven bolted over to where I was and took me away from Andrew. My daughter was being taken care of by baby-sitters this entire time.

 

This friend - Steven, took care of me. And loved me like I had never thought was possible. Long story short we became romantic.

My dad offered to take care of my daughter, Rae - until I wiped my life's slate clean and got myself together.

 

It was only until Rae was about a year old that Steven and I were stable enough and under Andrew's radar of threats, to have Rae.

 

Meanwhile, Andrew had claimed to the court I had abandoned Rae and made a motion to receive custody. To his demise, Steven and I were frequently with Rae, and had proof. Also it helped that this entire time I was going to a 3 month rehab to satiate my court sentence and also took voluntary therapy for domestic violence.

The judge was insulted by Andrew's attempt for custody and his lies that I had abandoned my daughter.

 

Custody was issued to me.

 

Steven and I settled down in Steven's mom's mansion of a house, only 15 minutes away from my dad's house. We have Rae Sunday afternoon through Thursday night. My dad has Rae the rest of the time during Friday and Saturday to "give us young 20 year olds a life".

 

My ex Andrew has rarely, but periodically tried getting in contact. The last time we agreed to see him, he asked if he could take Rae in his car (with his gf) for a little while. To this, I said surely not. He pulled a knife on me to threaten me, while his gf was shocked and Steven protected me.

 

Andrew's tried emailing me his phone number and telling me he wants to talk to me regarding Rae. I have not and do not plan to call him.

 

My dad said Andrew passed by the house not too long ago, asking where Rae was and then left. My dad said he looked terribly skinny considering he's always been a buff guy.

 

 

Question

Rae is 2.5 now and loves Steven so much, calls him "Daddy" and Steven loves Rae as his own.

Am I wrong for denying Andrew visitation of Rae?

I have read here that fathers have a 'right' to see their children, regardless of how things turned out with the mother and father, and regardless of who he is. I have read here that the child deserves to know.

Andrew has never paid child support and I don't take it to court because I would rather work more than deal with the risk of Andrew.

 

Should Andrew ever see Rae? What could he do that would merit him visitation?

My dad says that Rae doesn't need to know Andrew, and no good could come of it; especially since he hasn't changed.

 

 

 

 

 

I appreciate those who will take the time to read this and assure me of what is the right thing to do here.

[rosephase]

No. You don't have to let Rea know her dad now. Maybe when she is an adult and if she expresses interest in him then it is her right to know. But now you have to keep her safety in mind and nothing he has done would lead anyone to believe that he is safe enough to be allowed around a child.

 

I don't think you should lie to her about who her father is but you should keep her away from him for her own safety. In fact I would look into getting a restraining order. He pulled a knife on you. He's been around your dad's house. He isn't balanced. He is on drugs and acting unstable.

[oldenoughtoknow]

Of course you're doing the right thing. As Rae's biological father, Andrew has rights. But given his behavior, those rights disappear. The courts, at least in California, always side with the best interest of the child. Being around Andrew is clearly not in Rae's best interest. I've been down a similar path with an ex that fell into alcoholism. I went to court and got mandatory, random weekly drug and alcohol testing required for her visitation with our two kids. After five years, she hasn't complied once, and the kids are the better for it. Hang in there. People like this can be extremely manipulative. They'll try charm, they'll try rage, and everything in between, packaged in lies to get what they want. Don't listen. Stand by your boundaries. As you're becoming painfully aware, there's far more to parenting than having sex and giving birth. It's a privilege that must be earned, every day.

[FarthestEdge]

I think only in a strictly supervised setting. And I like the idea of mandatory drug testing. It gives him an incentive and an opportunity to prove that he can have something to offer the child.

 

Current child-centric thinking suggests that it's better for the kids to form their own opinions of their wayward parents than to not be given the chance. By not ever seeing the parent, there is a risk that the children will develop a romanticised ideal version of them, only to be more deeply hurt later on when that fantasy is shattered. I will admit though, that in practice, what they get is their messed up parents, in an ideal setting where they HAVE to behave, so it can be confusing to little kids.

 

But you can't do that without the courts. And I am not talking about parents, or sisters, or friends supervising. I am talking about a neutral supervised access centre and a court order that clearly specifies, he cannot take the child. The dad goes to the centre, you deliver the child, he visits with the child at the centre, you pick up the child, he leaves. That way, you never see him, he sees his child and others supervise his interaction with them.

 

Any other arrangement leaves too much room for error.

 

If I were you, I would get an RO, and have the court instruct him that any visitation will be determined by the courts. Then leave it up to him to decide how important access to his child is. When stripped of the opportunity to verbally abuse and threaten you, you will find out if he actually cares, or if he's just looking for revenge for leaving him.

[lavenderdove]

You should under no circumstances leave him alone with your daughter or let him take her anywhere... he has a drug problem and a criminal record, and it would risk your daughter on all kinds of levels to let him take her.

 

However, legally, he may be entitled to supervised visitation (nor sure the terms of your custody arrangements). He would only be allowed to see her in a neutral setting supervised by case workers or as arranged with the court, and not to take her anywhere.

 

If your current custody degree denies him the right to see her, then you don't have to do anything at all. But he might take you to court, or he may just try to bully you into it, but i wouldn't budge for the sake of your daughter and only allowed a formal court supervised visitation if he wins a suit to get that.

[OptomisticGirl]

He gave up that right to see her LONG ago. Supervised visits maybe but I agree with whoever else said mandatory drug tests could be a way. He fails, he doesn't see his kid.

[FarthestEdge]

He gave up that right to see her LONG ago. Supervised visits maybe but I agree with whoever else said mandatory drug tests could be a way. He fails, he doesn't see his kid.

 

The problem is that legally, it isn't her decision to make. And he could go after her for 'parental alienation' down the road. Judges have awarded full custody to the alienated parent in rare cases where it was demonstrated that the custodial parent made a deliberate effort to deny access rights from being exercised.. This is really a situation that should be settled by the courts. Ignoring his rights never reflects well in court, even if the reasons for it are sound.

[OptomisticGirl]

The problem is that legally, it isn't her decision to make. And he could go after her for 'parental alienation' down the road. Judges have awarded full custody to the alienated parent in rare cases where it was demonstrated that the custodial parent made a deliberate effort to deny access rights from being exercised.. This is really a situation that should be settled by the courts. Ignoring his rights never reflects well in court, even if the reasons for it are sound.

 

I'm sorry but with his history, the OP would be naive to let this father just take the child on a visit. She can suggest going through the courts for him to have supervised visits as long as he is clean so it shows she isn't trying to alienate him.

[FarthestEdge]

I'm sorry but with his history, the OP would be naive to let this father just take the child on a visit. She can suggest going through the courts for him to have supervised visits as long as he is clean so it shows she isn't trying to alienate him.

 

I am not suggesting she give him the child, where did I say that? I think I was pretty clear it needs to be supervised. I am merely pointing out the potential consequences of trying to avoid court, and taking matters into ones own hands.

 

Try reading my posts before criticising them.

 

I've seen this played out. And I know of an unfit parent who sees their child at a supervised centre. It isn't ideal, but it's secure and the other parent knows they are abiding by the law. The drama died down as soon as the court made it's ruling and issued the RO. The two parents have absolutely no contact, and the child sees both parents without being in any danger.

 

What's more, the supervising staff monitors ALL interactions, and should the wayward parent every try to change the arrangement, the supervisors are a neutral 3rd party who have seen the parent-child interactions and can testify to the nature of the relationship and the parenting skills of the wayward parent.

[Miss Firecracker]

You did exactly what I would do.

[OptomisticGirl]

Wasn't critizing, simply pointing out this is another case of weighing the safety of ones child - because third party supervised people aren't always on their game - over rights that have clearly been taken away.

 

OP, in the final custody arangment, is he allowed visitation or was that left solely up to your descretion?

[Miss Firecracker]

This man has pulled a knife on you? I'd get a protective order after that. And I would go nowhere near him.

[misssmithviii]

Thank you all for the replies - it's assured me, and helped me clear up my own clutter of thoughts.

 

I would never consider visitation without a 3rd party supervising - I am incapable of trusting Andrew, ever.

He pulled a knife out and quickly concealed it after Steven strongly suggested he put it away and we left the area immediately. I should've reported him, but we didn't. He's already gotten himself into so much trouble all on his own anyways.

 

The custody agreement was simply solidifying that Rae live with me, being the stable parent - and not with Andrew who continues to commit crimes. The hearing didn't discuss visitation, so that has been left up to my discretion. I had at one time told Andrew if he were to cease all drug usage and straighten out his life, he could see Rae as long as it was supervised by my father at least - but those plans quickly fell through as he continued his rebellious rampage 'against the system'.

 

I'm thinking I should wait until he actually makes an effort to see Rae, actually contacting me and saying he wants to see her instead of stalking my dad's house. And in the event that he does make that effort I plan to explain that I will gladly go to court and pursue mandatory drug testing and court supervised visitation.

Andrew's always feared going to court - and I think that's another reason why he is so hesitant to contact me.

 

Or, should I take action and stir things up now?

The last time he saw her was a little over a year ago, btw.

[FarthestEdge]

I've never seen a court document saying one parent has discretion over the other parents right to access.

 

That said, I am wondering if he is only using his right to access as a reason to stir up trouble, to have a reason to threaten and intimidate you. Because, technically, I believe you are denying him his parental rights, unless you have a court order that specifically gives you the right to do so. Even though you know you are acting in the child's best interests, you really should have the courts nod of approval.

 

It isn't up to you to legally enforce his parental rights so I wouldn't start any proceedings there, but you CAN restrain him from contacting you. I would request an RO so that he is barred from harassing you or contacting you. Then if he wants to pursue visitation, he'll have no choice but to go through the courts.

 

If it is important to him to have a relationship with the child, he'll suck up his rebellion and face a judge. Otherwise, he'll slither away. Either way, the ball was in his court and he made the choice. Currently, he could say you just wouldn't let him see his child, which is *technically* the truth.

 

An RO makes it clear that you are protecting yourself and your child.

[oldenoughtoknow]

In this case, as she has full custody and he has no visitation, it is up to her discretion. So yes, she can choose, kind of with the same discretion that a responsible parent can choose a baby sitter to leave their child with.

 

The father has forfeited his rights, until he can prove that he is a responsible parent and can provide a safe environment for the child. He had his day in court to prove he was a responsible parent, but with his rap sheet, he couldn't make it happen.

[Miss Firecracker]

I think he's still on drugs.

 

And I would leave things as they are now.

[OptomisticGirl]

My dad had full custody with visitation at his descretion because he told lies about my mom. It does happrn, especially if one parent isn't fit.

[FarthestEdge]

My dad had full custody with visitation at his descretion because he told lies about my mom. It does happrn, especially if one parent isn't fit.

 

You're 23, laws change. However they can also vary by jurisdiction.

 

The following quote was taken from : link removed which is a Government of Canada Website:

 

"Facts you need to know

 

•The Divorce Act clearly recognizes that your child needs to maintain a relationship with both parents unless it isn’t in the child's best interests. Generally speaking, one parent cannot make a final decision about this by themselves. If a parent believes that a relationship with the other parent is not in the child’s best interest, the parent should seek legal advice."

 

Sole physical custody, does not give a parent the legal right to decide if the other parent is fit for access, at least not in Canada.

 

I COMPLETELY get where MissSmithVIII is coming from, I do. I just think it's irresponsible of us to encourage her to knowingly ignore the law because she, and we, believe that morally, she is right. The fact remains, that at the end of the day, if she can't demonstrate that she tried to protect her child, within the confines of the law, it could bite her in the a$$.

 

Judges don't take too kindly on people taking matters into their own hands. Let's be fair, in a divorce/breakup situation, no one is unbiased.

[oldenoughtoknow]

^^ The OP did indicate she has sole custody. "The custody agreement was simply solidifying that Rae live with me, being the stable parent - and not with Andrew who continues to commit crimes. The hearing didn't discuss visitation, so that has been left up to my discretion."

 

In California, the law works like this. I'm very familiar with it, because I'm in the same situation. I have sole custody of my two kids and an alcoholic ex wife.

 

"One parent may be given physical sole custody in the best interests of the children. The court generally prefers to award some type of shared custody to allow both parents to participate in the child's life. There are circumstances, however, when this arrangement is not in the best interest of the child. One parent may be awarded sole custody when the other parent poses a potential threat to the child's welfare. These dangers can include: a history of violence and destructive behavior, drug and/or alcohol abuse, threatening to take the child away, history of placing the child in dangerous situations, and more. In sole custody situations where the other parent is denied custody on these grounds, the court may grant child visitation that is proctored by a neutral third party adult."

 

Since visitation was not discussed, with a neutral third party or otherwise, his visitation is essentially up to her discretion.

[FarthestEdge]

If it wasn't discussed though, you can't say that discretion was awarded with custody. The grounds you bolded are not at this point a case of fact witht he court, are they? I would think that there would be a clear expression in documents that state he has no right to access, denial of parental rights would not be implied by omission of discussion thereof. Physical custody does not, by definition deny the non-custodial parent any rights to access.

 

I personally know several people who have *sole* custody, but the other parents still has access rights. One of these parents has supervised access AFTER the custodial parent proved to the court, through documented evidence, police reports, doctors reports, recorded phone messages, written threats and sworn statements by others that the non-custodial parent posed a risk to the child. It wasn't easy just to get supervised, and the lawyer said it would be nigh on impossible to have the parental rights terminated- despite multiple suicide attempts and written and recorded threats that the custodial parent would 'never see your child again".

 

But I do agree that laws vary among jurisdictions, and can be complex which only adds more confusion. I think at a minimum the OP should call a legal hotline in her state and take the 1 hour of free legal advice many firms offer to determine what her rights, responsibilities and limitations are in her individual circumstances. To assume, is asking for trouble.

[misssmithviii]

Ok so a recap:

 

Andrew visited over a year ago, and had pulled a knife to threaten me because I did not approve of him taking Rae in his car with some stranger gf out of my sight (given his history obviously).

 

A lot of time has passed, and he's committed more crimes and violated the law at least 4 more times. He has made ONE attempt at talking to me about Rae once on a social networking site. He gave me his number and his email addresses and said he'd "please get ahold of me I would like to talk about Rae obviously. No tricks or stupid comments or anything to annoy you. Just talk about Rae please" I simply replied, "What about Rae?"

 

He never responded after that - in fact it says that the message I sent wasn't even READ!!!

 

It feels like he wants to be able to say he gave me access to contact him, and by me NOT contacting him - I'm passively withholding contact with him and any chance of seeing Rae.

 

I did not feel comfortable emailing him until he presented some sort of calm, collected and mature demeanor towards me. Above all I've always been afraid of my own safety as well. Andrew always told me when we were together that he'd torture me, make my life Hell if I ever left him - and he'd be even less merciful to whomever I "replaced" him with. Perhaps I'm a little naïve... but I've seen him pummel a man's face into the ground, I've seen him inflict pain and enjoy it. He's sick, and I cannot bring myself to trust that.

 

He's only stopped by my father's place to ask about Rae, then he left. His fiancé called my dad and said, "I'd like to see Rae since I'm Andrew's fiancé" - to which my father said, "so what" and hung up on her.

 

Do I email him?

Do I call him?

Do I make any effort to even contact him and tell him I do not trust him around Rae without court mandated drug testing and 3rd party supervision?

Will that only anger him more?

 

It's been so long since I've heard from him that it almost seems like he passively cares. And truth be told, I'm fine with this passive-Andrew. He hasn't demanded to see Rae.

 

Should I even take any other steps?

 

Also: Steven and I live on a plot of private property - the driveway is long and goes only to this house on it's own part of the hill here. There are signs stating it is private property and trespassers will be in violation. Andrew does NOT know where this house is specifically, and if he were to come here - he knows all we'd have to do is call the police and him trespassing would violate whatever probation he's on.

Andrew does NOT have my phone number (thankfully) nor my email.

 

Any contact between us, I would have to initiate.

[misssmithviii]

But I do agree that laws vary among jurisdictions, and can be complex which only adds more confusion. I think at a minimum the OP should call a legal hotline in her state and take the 1 hour of free legal advice many firms offer to determine what her rights, responsibilities and limitations are in her individual circumstances. To assume, is asking for trouble.

 

I agree very much with assumption being the quickest route to trouble.

I did not know I could call a legal hotline for 1 free hour.

 

What questions should I be absolutely SURE to ask in your opinion?

[OptomisticGirl]

That's pretty much how my home state worked too, but dad got it because he lied about my mom doing things (which was later found out and joint custody was issued) and he never stopped my mom from seeing us but he def had the power to say no. From what I read in the custody agreement when my mom got my brother, she know has that right to give visitation to my dad, although he hasn't contacted my brother in years.

[OptomisticGirl]

I agree very much with assumption being the quickest route to trouble.

I did not know I could call a legal hotline for 1 free hour.

 

What questions should I be absolutely SURE to ask in your opinion?

 

I would ask what rights, if any, does he have under the current custody order and the steps you need to take to get supervised visits if he wants contact.

[oldenoughtoknow]

I would reread your latest official divorce decree for the specified orders regarding physical custody, legal custody, and visitation, and compare your decreed orders against the definitions explained below. That will give you a start. It also always helps to document and date everything - like a printout of the social site where he requested contact, you responded, and he hasn't even read your response. If he ever does muster the money, ambition and temperance to challenge anything, you'll already have your guns loaded.

 

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