For the guys: A reminder of why you are here and how it all goes down.

[GrowingIn]

Another member suggested I asked to make a thread out of my reply to his post, and I added a few details. I'm sure it's been said in different words before, but perhaps this emotional perspective hits it closer to home for the rest. Hope it helps.

 

The cycle

 

This is how it ALWAYS starts and they get you every freaking time. Let me remind you:

 

"Man ....she is one collected, calm, independent individual, completely in control. Everything I am not but want." Her presence is reserved, yet felt. Her looks are fair and beautiful. "I HAVE to have her". So you do. And later you learn how she pulls it all off: she is cold, selfish, inconsiderate and hurtful. Insecure and indecisive. None of it matters. "I can handle this". You admired the woman you caught a glimpse of, but now you LOVE and make excuses for the selfish child in her. "I want her....BAD...just the way she is. She needs me! I was made for this!"

 

......and none of that makes any difference to her. She doesn't "feel" loved. She "knows" she's loved. She had to give nothing, she just had to be herself and got it all. And then the point of no return: She tells you she never thought someone could really love her if they really got to know who she is.

 

"YES!" You think you have her. In reality, this is the moment she's got you by the balls. This is the moment where it all flips. She feels uplifted and her ego is soaring. She looks at you and she sees the truth: you "need" her. She is now healed, complete and filled. That which you keep offering, is too much and no longer needed. She begins to pull away, and ready to look for someone that's more complete like her. The OPPOSITE of you. The black widow then leaves her pray in the middle of the spider net she weaved, not out of evil hate, not out of purpose, but out of instinct. Her own subconscious hurt and fear. Stuck, lost, you can barely move and breathe, you realize it's even worse than you thought: it's survival time. You have to escape while you are broke and busted. Your sanity is once again on the line. "Why couldn't she do the same for me?"

 

And then...

 

She finds Mr. Independent. Ooops.....he doesn't "love the child in her". He doesn't admire "the woman". No unconditional love here. She panics! She was wrong. She was not healed and complete(you made her feel that way). She fights to keep him. He breaks her down. She reacquaints herself with the million problems she's never fixed. She is messed up. She once again believes: "no one will ever love me if they really got to know who I am." She's frail, quiet, fair and beautiful. Her presence is reserved, but felt, just sitting there.....waiting.........for you!

 

Rinse and repeat.

 

 

 

 

So you are left asking yourself: why can't I feel this way about the one I KNOW can return what I give? What is wrong with me? And even knowing this, recognizing the feeling that I get next time I meet someone like her....will I have the strength to pull away? Will I remember all the pain I suffered, or will I, as always, ignore the red flags, throw caution to the wind(knowing damn well, deep down what's going to happen) and put it all on the line again hoping this next one will love me back for all which I have to offer?

 

In the mean time, the smiling girl at the gas station that's always been there, waiting, knowing very well she could treat you better than her and give you what you want keeps shaking her head: "When will he ever learn?"

 

"I'm so screwed up. Will anyone really love me when they get to know how I really am?"

 

PS: Yes we are screwed up too! And can you really blame her for you making her feel good and her liking it?

[LP90]

Great post and extremely accurate. Sadly you make a great point. Even when we do move on to someone else and see these red flags will we be strong enough to do something about them to change? Id imagine for a large portion of the people the answer would still be no. I know i for one wish i could control myself better and be able to recognize my mistakes and change them in time not to suffer heartbreak again.

[FathomFear]

Could you perhaps give a 3-4 sentence synopsis of this in layman's terms? I'm having a hard time discerning what you're trying to say. To be brutally honest, it sounds like another misogynistic "Omg women r teh devil" style of post which seems very common on these boards.

[GrowingIn]

I was just about to add this so hope it helps. And no it's not at all about "women are the devil", though it may seem that way. It depends on what stage you are on. When you are finally right in the head, you will see it different. You should get out of it exactly what you need depending on where you are at. Putting it into 3-4 sentences kind of ruins the entire idea.

 

I'm beginning more and more to feel like every guy here has dated my ex. At the end of the same they are all the same, are they not? And so are we.

 

I'll tell you why, because of the way we are wired. Because when you met her, she was probably down and insecure. You felt safe because she was down and insecure, because in the opposite way you are there as well, so you know what to do....you have what to give which is exactly what they need. You FEEL good when you take this frail person that's a little scared, a little bruised and you give your attention, your warmth, your affection and compassion - your love- in order to see her smile.

 

But you never get it back. You feel empty because you need that so much in return. You become angry. You become hurtful towards them, blaming, asking for things they cannot/will not give you. They become distant because your ability to give and them not returning it makes them feel guilty. Like they are a horrible person in love. At this point, you remind them of their last(their first?). They just wanna feel good too. You don't want to make them feel bad, but how can you NOT ask for it when YOU need it so much in return? You hurt even more, you become scared of them pulling away, so you stop asking but are giving less and less. They are pulling away, needing less and less, yet here you are giving the very last drops. They take those as well as they are running out the door.

 

Now you are broke.

 

See it. Feel it. Hurt. Learn. Heal. And LOVE it all! That means yourself too! Get off the crazy train. Then leave it all behind and GROW! When are you truly healed? When you can love again!

[Eocsor]

I think he's just saying that we(men and women) are attracted to people who aren't healthy for us and bypass people who would probably make great partners because of this

[doiiiieeezie]

Sorry, i disagree, and I'm not sticking up to my own gender, but I find your posts simply a rant based on your ex who has dumped you.

[GrowingIn]

Sorry, i disagree, and I'm not sticking up to my own gender, but I find your posts simply a rant based on your ex who has dumped you.

 

*shakes head*

 

Why did you feel the need to come into a thread that is titled "for the guys", not even get anything I wrote, and one star the thread?

[Tired Tiger]

Sorry, i disagree, and I'm not sticking up to my own gender, but I find your posts simply a rant based on your ex who has dumped you.

 

Yep.

 

It's one thing to gain a certain level of awareness about what's happened in a relationship (or pattern of relationships), but quite another to project that as 'the way all relationships are'. It's far more helpful to figure out why you choose the wrong partners than to assume everyone is that dysfunctional.

[FathomFear]

You FEEL good when you take this frail person that's a little scared, a little bruised and you give your attention, your warmth, your affection and compassion - your love- in order to see her smile.

 

While it is true that some guys are complete and utter suckers for "damsels in distress", so to speak, this is hardly a universal tendency which everyone falls prey to. You have to be wary of projecting your own circumstances on to men/women as a whole.

[FathomFear]

Yep.

 

It's one thing to gain a certain level of awareness about what's happened in a relationship (or pattern of relationships), but quite another to project that as 'the way all relationships are'. It's far more helpful to figure out why you choose the wrong partners than to assume everyone is that dysfunctional.

 

Exactly. This is where strength comes from, not from rationalizing our own individual problems by convincing ourselves that everyone else is the same. In reality they are not.

[GrowingIn]

Yep.

 

It's one thing to gain a certain level of awareness about what's happened in a relationship (or pattern of relationships), but quite another to project that as 'the way all relationships are'. It's far more helpful to figure out why you choose the wrong partners than to assume everyone is that dysfunctional.

 

That's actually exactly what this says to the ones that need it most. Eocsor figured it out first. The problem is you can't just "tell" someone like this that and expect them to follow your advice. They have to realize it.

[browneyedgirl36]

Welll...I'm a woman (so I'm probably not *supposed* to be posting on this thread, but...eh)... Here are my thoughts:

 

I can see how people might see this as a "women are the devil" rant (I DO see a bit of that in this post, actually -- lots of generalizations about "how it goes down" in regard to women), but...I think that, in a roundabout way, that the OP is making a point about people repeatedly choosing people who are bad for them and completely overlooking the ones who aren't -- that some people get stuck in a pattern of choosing the same type of person over and over again. This isn't a problem so much with the people they're choosing as it is with the person DOING the choosing. It's a cliche, but...the one common factor in all of your relationships (a general you -- not directed at anyone specifically) is YOU. So, if you keep picking the same types of people and your relationships keep "going down" the same way, well...that's not about who you're choosing; it's about YOU and WHY you keep choosing them.

 

I say this from the standpoint of the "smiling girl at the gas station" -- I was her with my last ex. He's been in an on-off relationship for YEARS with the same woman who keeps stomping his heart to bits; meanwhile, he dated me in between (at one of their "off" times) and went on and on about how great I am, what a great partner I'd make, etc. but... they've been broken up for two years again now, and he's STILL not over her. All I can do is shake my head, sigh, wish the best for him, and be glad that I am no longer in that game. I think he'll just keep repeating the same pattern -- with her or someone similar to her -- and there is nothing I can do but pursue my own happiness without him.

[Eocsor]

Good post. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing time after time and expecting different results.

[Live-N-Learn]

I see a lot of my ex in this post. However, I am really trying to understand why I am attracted to unhealthy women. I do not want to chose this type of partner again. It funny cuz I was telling a friend of mine the other day that if I see a girl and talk to her and get that "feeling", it probably means she's bad for me. Awareness is the key to change.

[GrowingIn]

Good post. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing time after time and expecting different results.

 

Yes, and for those that don't get it, that also goes for giving people advice and not figuring out why they don't take it. Too many people around here don't understand the concept of empathy.

 

It's the same problem we have in relationships. You can't advise someone into "stopping" how they are acting based on their feelings just by telling them to stop and do something else.....and actually expecting them to follow your advice. That's just as crazy. You are invalidating them. If you truly want someone to listen to you, you have to talk on an emotional level, let them know you feel what they feel, you understand, then walk them through it.

 

Just like this post Sorry, i disagree, and I'm not sticking up to my own gender, but I find your posts simply a rant based on your ex who has dumped you.

 

You cannot disagree with someone's own perception and feelings. You just come off cold and bitter when you do that even if you are correct, your words are unheard. And quite often detested.

[doiiiieeezie]

Okay, as I have been brought into this twice, I will explain my position.

 

It is one thing to look at your past patterns and say, I keep falling for this and the outcome is usually x. If I looked at my own dating pattern, I could say that I am attracted to the emotionally unavailable man, yet as a human being I need to look at my own actions and patterns as well. If I did this, then perhaps the outcome would have been different. Perhaps not. Relationships are about communication and action, caring and sharing each others lives. As emotionally charged human beings, we tend to relate our experiences and relationships based on the past, where I do see you have done in this post.

 

Now by saying that I cannot disagree with someone's perceptions and feelings is simply an invalidation of my own. You can by all means conclude that I am coming off cold and bitter, but my words have been heard. Just like you have made a statement as well.

 

It is about awareness and change

[Danny77]

I believe this post to be an exact description

of my last relationship.

I am fascinated by this insight and would love to hear more.

I also believe that it is not gender specific.

But it's frightening how I am the lead character in this post and she is the girl.

 

I wish I couldve read this sometime in the beginning.

Not that it wouldve helped but just to know why things were going where they were.

 

OP- this is one of the most accurate and insightful posts I have read so far.

[GrowingIn]

No one brought you in it. You did.

 

What you have not understood is this. This post was created with the genuine intent to empathize and help guys that are going through the SAME emotions that I have gone through. The purpose was TO HELP. Someone else got help from this and asked me to share it with others. It had nothing to do with generalizing, making statements about relationships, or even giving relationship advice. It was simply about stating a cycle and allowing a person to come out with their OWN realization of the events.

 

Ask yourself who did you help out with your reply? Yourself? What was your purpose?

[nsomnia912]

I too see this as exactly my last relationship...and the one prior...it did help me to realize things I need to be aware of IN MYSELF.....I pick the emotionally weak and unavailable....I share all my knowledge and love...I invest too much into the relationship and this person...all the while I'm losing my own self esteem because i cannot ever get anything in return...

 

Then it reverses, while I'm desperate to hold on because I'm now invested..i have lost perspective of my own self worth...and become needy for something...which she sees I'm no longer complete and have allowed myself to become dependant on the relationship...she moves on..im devastated.

 

The last month has been horrible for me, ive been in denial, blaming, hurt and angry... This post really opened my eyes to the types of women im with as well as the part i play and I understand the lesson on why...I know this post does not apply to all...but it does apply to some and maybe its an eye opener that was needed....it was for me..and if it can help one person out of a jam, that should be good enough.

[Danny77]

I have no idea why this post might offend women?

Don't you agree that there are women like this around?

Maybe it's just women that see themselves in the post that are being offeneded.

 

Its really about how you have to try and spot the incompatibility early as to save yourself the pain.

[Daligal83]

I think it can be found offense to women for two reasons.

 

1) Not every woman who is confident, stable, has their act together, etc is going to actually be cold and distant. I like to think that I have my act together and I'm independent, but when I'm in a relationship (and with my friends too really) I'm very loving and giving. While I get your point of the post, to recognize patterns in behavior and not repeat them, it can also be read as "watch out for this type of woman, she will hurt you." I'm not saying this about any of the people who have posted or responded to this thread, because I don't know any of you, but sometimes when someone who is very needy gets into a relationship with an independent person...the independent person is seen as cold because he/she cannot meet the high level of need of the first individual. It's not that the independent person actually is cold and distant, but maybe that person just isn't willing to give in to the neediness. Now, there are women like you described, of course. But the problem is that it's presented in a way that seems black and white and ignores all the gray.

 

2) The post does not articulate that men behave similarly. It might have been received different if it was posted in a gender neutral way so that everyone could relate. By setting it up so that this is ONLY to help men stay away from "bad" women...well it puts us on the defensive. The people who do act this way are not only women. Men do it too. So while maybe not intended, it can come off as a "women are evil" post.

[GrowingIn]

1). They are not independent women. They project the image, but they are in essence emotionally unavailable women who are attempting to become that. The act very needy, insecure and clingy after they enter a relationship, and basically suck up affection while not being able to return it. Up to a certain point. And yes they WILL hurt you They are the opposite of the boys/children going for them and we are both equally messed up. If they were complete, whole, independent women they would have NEVER gotten in the relationship in the first place.

 

2. Grow up! And that's all I'm going to say to that. Figure it out why!

[Daligal83]

1) I agree that women who act in the manner you described are not independent women. But the danger in being so black and white with this is that if you meet someone who seems to be independent, guys may not immediately decide she is the opposite of that. You need to get to know the individual person and then if she starts to show signs of being needy, yes leave.

 

2) Really? I said nothing insulting to you whatsoever. I stated my opinion, which you have also done. However I did not make mine against you personally and in fact made statements to make sure it was not taken that way. By telling me to "grow up" over that statement tells me that you have no real argument against it. There is no need to be personally insulting here. It's just a discussion.

[Sim54]

Op, you're simply describing dysfunctional relationships that happen between emotionally immature people, that's you as well as all the women you tried to save to manipulate into loving you back. Your ex's need a health warning, but so do you.

 

The first rule of relationships:

We are attracted to people of roughly the same level of emotional maturity or immaturity.

 

The second rule:

We are subconsciously drawn to a persons dysfunctions, and consciously drawn to their positive traits.

 

And therein lies the answer to all this.

Simply put, grow up. Take responsibility for yourself, your life, your needs, and stop making another person responsible for fixing you, and you fixing them.

Throw out the fantasy that someone is going to come along and make it all alright. Isn't going to happen.

Lift the lid on your subconscious and see what is really going under your hood, and you'll start to understand why you are drawn to a particular woman over and over. And no, not all women are like that.

 

When you have healed and grown into a fully functioning adult, then you won't need to watch out, as you simply won't notice those women/men any more, they will be no more attractive to you than a teenager.

 

Easily said, of course, but do the work, and it can happen.

[Glowguy]

To me it seems to be a commentary on women who hop from relationship to relationship viewed through the lens of personal experience. I guess people are generalizing it and getting offended because the title singles out men. BTW, I like your threads OP, they seem to spark a lot of debate.