sfindependent Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 After reading your thread/posts, I have to say that this part seems the only time you've come accross as genuinely excited about something-this is great! Keep focusing on getting into a new place, I'm sure the confidence of your last few posts have stemmed from being able to see beyond this girl-good for you! i am overall excited! things coukd have been worse...im young, smart, highly educated, ive got some swagger in my step and have a lot of loving friends! ive been on both sides, there's a bounty of women here in sf! lol dont get me wrong, i love M to death but i promised myself a long time ago i wouldnt beg plead cry or act stupid in front of an ex. ive got more pride than that. im upset and wishing we had a different life but hey... You have a lock on this man. If you are looking forward to your new life she is going to come crawling back...no doubt about it. If for some reason she does not you will not even care at that point. what do mean i got this? correct me if im wrong i do think shes still loves me at this point, butnis severely confused about what to do with her lack of sexual attraction towards me. either case i am not too concerned at the moment. if and when is a bridge that id cross, if and when. at one point during the night, i wanted to get a reaction from her or at least plant something in her head; i acknowledged my faults and said how awesome it would hve been diferent if i only listened to what she was needing... she ha a very visual look of "i hate u right now" on her face. Link to comment
Mrs Popsicle Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 i am overall excited! things coukd have been worse...im young, smart, highly educated, ive got some swagger in my step and have a lot of loving friends! ive been on both sides, there's a bounty of women here in sf! lol dont get me wrong, i love M to death but i promised myself a long time ago i wouldnt beg plead cry or act stupid in front of an ex. ive got more pride than that. im upset and wishing we had a different life but hey... That's the spirit! It's really good to see you so much more upbeat about things Bogswagen. Good luck! Mrs Popsicle Link to comment
sfindependent Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 That's the spirit! It's really good to see you so much more upbeat about things Bogswagen. Good luck! Mrs Popsicle thank u! im trying to feel better im sure that its not gonna be an easy road but as long as im moving forward, with or without her Link to comment
sfindependent Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 ugh! so confused (but not letting it show)... she'll display/ try to plan things between us (watch movies) and then say "its too late" meaning for things to get better between us... im deflecting them successduly butnreally dont know what to make of it Link to comment
sfindependent Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 push and pull... push and pull...... i wanna pull my hair out Link to comment
Real Deal Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 what do mean i got this? correct me if im wrong i do think shes still loves me at this point, butnis severely confused about what to do with her lack of sexual attraction towards me. either case i am not too concerned at the moment. if and when is a bridge that id cross, if and when. at one point during the night, i wanted to get a reaction from her or at least plant something in her head; i acknowledged my faults and said how awesome it would hve been diferent if i only listened to what she was needing... she ha a very visual look of "i hate u right now" on her face. What I mean is your are acting in the right way (for the most part). Don't say things like that to her anymore - all you are doing is being petty and in doing so she wins (the battle and the war). She is all over the map right now and will be for a while. Things are likely going to get worse before they get better. You need to stop making plans with her and sleeping with her. SHE IS USING YOU! Maybe not on purpose, but she is, period. Trust me on this - I did the same thing and it will get you no where in the long run except further away from her. If that is what you want than keep doing it. I hate being so harsh but that is a FACT. Regardless of what she says or really does at this point you are validating her decision to leave you when you do this (it is needy). Think of it like this - how has her behavior been when you act aloof and like you are pulling away? She may initially say crappy things but then she pays more attention to you. Now multiply this time ten - what would she do if you went out with your friends tonight? She is going to be livid. Especially if you have a good time and she has no idea what you do. Sure, she will go out with "the girls" and likely say all kinds of BS how guys were hitting on her, etc. Ignore that, or better yet, encourage it - something like: "that's not supirising, you can be pretty attractive at times when you fix up" . Some may say you are trying to be mean by saying things like this but what you are showing is that she is not on a damn pedestal that you set her on. I wouldn't say anything about what you did even if you sleep with 10 hot girls when you go out. I am not talking about playing games here either. You need to pull away from her completely for YOU and break this hold that she has on you. If you don't then if/when you guys give it another try you will go down the same road. Not to mention she has not had the opportunity to really miss you yet. I would also get moved out as soon as you can too. Don't be angry at all but be in a hurry to do it but upbeat about it. Make sense? Link to comment
sfindependent Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 She left for NY for a few days last night, and she asked me to take her to the airport after dinner. While having drinks, I received a call from the apartment I liked. even the SERVER noticed how excited I was about the phone call. She told Michelle, "he was jumping up and down outside. It must have been an important call". I told Michelle I was moving out soon, if possible this weekend. She was cool with it but whenver I acknowledged the fact I've been changing (losing weight, not drinking much going to the gym, how I think it IS a good idea to be broken up since things weren't working out, etc. she would get teary eyed, would tell me how upset she is about why I'm just doing this now, how late these changes are since her mind's made up etc. I slipped two or three times touching her arm or something and she would keep me in check by saying "no, don't do that. I'm not comfortable". I retract, do not apologize and act like it was nothing and continue to be upbeat.. Yeah. She's acting weird definitely. Despite her saying "No don't do that" or "we're done" or "It's too late"... she's saying stuff like "I saw a bunch of movies that was turned to DVD's, i couldn't watch some of it because I have to wait for you or you'll get upset". I didn't acknowledge it, just laughed and said "I wanted to watch____". She was also saying "we can do ____ next time". All throughout the night I've remained upbeat, I looked happy when I was talking about my plans of moving out. What I did say was how happy I was with how we have been dealing with each other the past few days. How things have been lighter, how much fun its been hangng with her. If a server who was NOT in our conversation at all was able to pick up my excitement, I think that would say "genuinely happy". Lol. I mentioned how I'm glad we don't hate each other, acknowledged our mutual respect towards each other. I did not gush any feelings, I did not profess love, no sappy emotions. I did not deny my feelings but rather, focused on the good things and wanted to remind her of that (i know she can think about these things on her own but during dinner, i think it helped to talk about the better things that we have) I did talk about positive things, good memories, good things, our mutual respect, how we care about each other and how we're both involved with each other's life. I am and always be clear how I want only a romantic relationship with her. I must confess, I did slip a bit with my nonchalance and i hinted having noncommitted sex (humorously of course!). She said "i dont think you're ready" dryly but I turned it back at her saying "i don't think YOU'RE ready" and laughed. I maintained my upbeatness, my vagueness and my intentions to "move on forward" I'm not sure... am i being friendzoned? The thing is, during our relationship, we did NOT have a good friendship...we weren't the "im inlove with my best friend" so i'm not sure if having a platonic friendship with her is necessary for us to have inorder to have a romantic relationship later on again? I dont know where her heads at so i'm trying to focus on what is on MY head instead. I'm not sure if i'm building attraction already either and want to see what you guys thought and what I should keep doing. Link to comment
anthony4 Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 even though my ex is really bad for me, and it will never work, this is the best advice i've ever read. i was too needy wanting validation from her. thanks Mon! Link to comment
Real Deal Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 That is good man. Your are definitely building attraction BUT you are also being "friendzoned". On the sex thing - NEVER ask a woman for sex. I repeat, NEVER ask any woman for sex. I am am simple man so I will say this plainly - women like sex as much as men do so YOU decide when you guys have sex (and not in a creepy rapist way...LOL). After all, she decided to "dump you" so ask yourself what has she done to EARN the prize of your c*ck. I know, I know, many woman may read this and think this is shovenistic but what is the alternative? Putting her and her p**sy on a pedstal? I think not. Having said all of that, I like the way that you handled that by saying that she might not be ready for it. Nice pull. The idea of her saying that you won't means that overall she still thinks of you as non-Alpha - like she would be doing you a favor - F that!! There are 3.2 BILLION women on this planet (give or take a few million) and I am most certain that if you started right now you could not even scratch the surface on all the women that you could have sex with and enjoy the hell out of it. There is an acronym that I heard a while back that resignated with me and I applied it after my split - F.T.O.W. = F**k Ten Other Women. You may or may not make it to the tenth one and that is not the point. The point is that AT LEAST one of the ten will be better in just about every single way than M is. I am not promoting being a man wh*re or anything like that, and definitely not promoting that you use women for sex - unless you really want to. If you do just make sure that you are honest and upfront that is what you want from them and are not looking for a comittment of any sort. I am just saying that in doing so you will realize that she is not all that special or at least not special enough that you want to continually subject yoursellf to emotional bumper cars with her. I got a little sidetracked on the sex thing but I have just seen too many guys at all stages of a relationship make these mistakes (myself included). You are the prize my friend - YOU are 'the set'. Do not call or text her at all why she is gone - let it come to you. In time it will and if she doesn't than she is not worth it and you will never feel truly secure in any future that you all may have together. Go out tonight with your friends and do not think about how much you miss her. You are free to do WHATEVER you want and so is she. Remember that - you owe her nothing and she owes you nothing at this point. Keep being nice but only because you want to - not because it will get you something with or from her. Link to comment
Real Deal Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 I forgot - do not "remind" her of how good things are and especially how they "were". Not that you are but she will view this as emotional blackmail/manipulation and whether or not you realize it, it is. Link to comment
Real Deal Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Anthony - Right on brother - stay strong.... Link to comment
sfindependent Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 LOL! no, didnt ask for sex per se... i was being playful, flirty and suggestive. That's about it... i maintained a playful smile, an upbeat demeanor even when she called me out... When there's something extremely negative that she would say against me, i would react like a man and figuratively say "no" or "stop it" and call her out on her bad behavior or just ignore it completely; not say anything and let myself calm down.... She's interpreting it as me getting mad at her but it's ok. I'd rather set boundaries now and establish i won't take any bull but still be a happy man to be around. good to know. I will definitely avoid that next time... Im a little confused... i don't want to be her friend. I want a passionate relationship with her... her responses of "too bad" and "too late" and "don't touch me, i'm not comfortable" tell me no interest, but she's definitely upset im becoming a different guy. Keep in mind, i'm still wanting to move. I'm still looking forward to movin out, but in looking ahead, I want to nip "friendzone" in the bud and instead let her think "romantic feelings"...suggestions? Link to comment
Real Deal Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 On the friendzone thing just don't do things with her that she associates with you guys being friends. i.e. - taking her to the airport, watching movies, going to dinner, etc. Of course if you love and care for someone and are in a relationship you do these things with them but you also tell each other that you love one another, have sex and are affectionate. Catch my drift? She is getting all the benefits that she wants from a "relationship" and using you as an emotional crutch. This is pretty common because it is helping her get through this rough time until she moves on with her life. If you keep doing this (especially after you move out) you are going to get blindsided one day with the old "I just don't think it's good that we talk anymore" or some BS like that. Right now she is setting the terms for the "relationship", not you. Take the lead and do what is best for YOU. No matter what happens you will respect yourself more and in the end that is all that matters really. I am going to make an assumption here - did you basically stop hanging out with all of your friends when you were with her? How long have you guys been together and how long have you lived together? Link to comment
sfindependent Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 On the friendzone thing just don't do things with her that she associates with you guys being friends. i.e. - taking her to the airport, watching movies, going to dinner, etc. Of course if you love and care for someone and are in a relationship you do these things with them but you also tell each other that you love one another, have sex and are affectionate. good point. We are not having any of the latter, for her, we're hving a friendship right now. due to the lack of sex, affecton and that kind of "love" that's what we have had for the past few months and that's how she said she sees me as now (friends)... but as you and the rest of the people on here know... that's not what I want from her. She is getting all the benefits that she wants from a "relationship" and using you as an emotional crutch. This is pretty common because it is helping her get through this rough time until she moves on with her life. If you keep doing this (especially after you move out) you are going to get blindsided one day with the old "I just don't think it's good that we talk anymore" or some BS like that. Right now she is setting the terms for the "relationship", not you. Take the lead and do what is best for YOU. No matter what happens you will respect yourself more and in the end that is all that matters really. I agree... how exactly does one "take lead" in this situation? I agree, i do not want to be the emotional crutch to "ease her" out of this situation. In the interim, I'm just trying to make whatever we have left filled with positivity and a lead off to her thinking i'm a new man and have moved on without her easily. am going to make an assumption here - did you basically stop hanging out with all of your friends when you were with her? How long have you guys been together and how long have you lived together? no, as a matter of fact. She's a transplant from another state and almost if not ALL my close friends have adopted her as friends too. Even moreso, since we've gotten together, most of my friends have met and become good friends with my other friends making my multiple circle of friends one big circle. I love my friends. a brief hx is that we met at a bar, didnt start as "lovers" but gradually went up there... she's insisted I'm not her type (although she's claimed she doesnt have a specific type) but loved my personality. I'm also of a different race, (i'm asian and she's white) and i'm the only asian (or anyother race for that matter) that she's dated other than white. She also said she loved the way I treated her (sweet, loving etc) but wonders where the "magics" gone... we dated for two years and change. Also, on a note, during the first months (2nd i think) of our courtship we got pregnant and decided to abort the baby. She's never had that experience before but I stood by her everystep of the way. I assured her I wouldn't leave her during her pregnancy, regardless of if we keep it or not. She never got counseling for it and sometime after that was when I am associating (i can be wrong) that our relationship started to have problems. I'm sure there's so much more than just the abortion or my neediness that's affected our relationship. I'm not blaming one or two singular qualities that contributed to our current situation, but definitely DEFINITELY not going to fall for the friendzone. I need to get outta that while i still can. Link to comment
Real Deal Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 On the leading thing it's simple - do what you want to do and more importantly NOT what she wants. Like the other night she wanted to go to eat dinner, and you did. Whether true or not she controls you in her mind. She wants to watch movies, so you do it - she still "has you" where she wants you in her mind. Make sense? I lived with my ex wife for two months after she wanted to split. We still hung out (during which I would try to reason with her that we should be together...mistake). Still had sex, still slept in the same bed, mistake, mistake. All of this prolonged her seeing me as being happy and independent on my own. Four days after I moved out she wanted to go out and asked me to sepnd the night - and I did - MISTAKE. All the while she had started making other comments about other guys (in general dating sense not specific ones), her freedom, her social life and how great it was going to be, etc. All rubbing it in my face basically. In a sense this is what your woman is doing/has done. Is that how people treat someone that they want to be with? I think not. Mine would break down and cry and get all pissy that I was changing, getting in great shape, and that I "wasn't willing to do that for her", etc. They only do this to try to build more resentment towards you and justify leaving you...it's BS and a total sh*t test. Don't fall for it. Dont talk about changing and that other people notice either. F that. Just do your own thing and be your own man. If she wants you back - great. If not - great. I mean hell, I have been divorced for 13 months, split for 18 and I just ignore the sh*t test I get from my ex. I got one just last night. She basically called me to talk about some BS with selling the house (we haven't talked in 2 or 3 weeks or something) and brought up the fact that I am going to Barbados this summer and how it's all F'd up, blah, blah, blah. I guess she heard about it thru one of our mutual 'friends' but it is none of her business. She is with some other dude (who's old as hell and scrubby looking) now and I am with someone else and it's great (who's hotter than my ex)! I could care less but I wasn't able to make that shift until I realized that she does not call the shots. Just like that article I posted a few days ago. Sometimes they will be all angry and bitter because you are happy and sometimes they will try to be all nice and find out what is going on with you. Play the two exactly the same - calm, happy, aloof and evasive all at the same time. If she tries to being up what is going on with her life, dating, work, etc. be cool about it but don't get into lenghty convos with her. You have something better to be doing...literally. One other thing - if they try to lob and insult at you always one up it in a cocky way. For example - Her: "You're selfish and you're an a$$hole." You: "yep, you're pretty much right, it's a good thing we are broken up and you don't have to be the victim anymore." OR Her: "You were so mean to me and treated me terribly" You: "I know, all those trips to the hospital, times we spent on the Jerry Springer Show, how hard it must have been for you." Basically she is going to re-write history on you and try to make you feel like crap. You already tried being nice and convincing her that you have/will change and where did that get you? Don't even play the game and try to reason with her. Were you perfect in the relationship? Nope. Was she? Nope. The sonner you accept that 95% of what she says is driven by emotion and not logic the better off you will be. I am not saying to stand/sit there and take abuse but just do not get into it with her. Being a leader means that you do not argue with her. That is the sign of a true man. If she does not accept that you refuse to argue with her and insists on it, put her on a shelf until she wants to discuss things logically. YOU call the shots - and not in a controlling ego manic way either. Calm and centered is what you want to be. Link to comment
sfindependent Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 real quick: so shes in new york for a couple of days and i thought "sweet time apart"...weve been texting and i jokingly said "for someone who doesnt want to be with me so bad, u sure miss me a lot. what u get pasta?". she texted back saying "i dont miss u i just dont have any other friends its the perfect trifectA" so i texted back saying "its bifacta du-ba-s" am i going the right dire tion here? ps i gt the friggin room!!!! Link to comment
mikesmith909 Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Damn man, you are getting played so hard, get the hell out of there. "i dont miss u i just dont have any other friends" - UGH, I've said hurtful * * * * like that and played it off like I was joking but I mean it, and I'm sure she does too. Link to comment
22n32 Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 U should of never Texted her back.. she could be back in few days anyway. She would of wondered what u were doing and why u didn't text her Link to comment
sfindependent Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 ill write here instead of texting her: i hate u for ruining sonething so good Link to comment
Real Deal Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 She's only saying (texting) sh*t like that to get a reaction out of you. The less reactive you are the worse the comments and her actions will get. Like I said, it will get much worse before it ever gets better. Think back to that article I posted initially - her EGO needs to be right that you are weak, needy and pathetic so when you are upbeat, happy and confident it makes her ANGRY and when we are angry with someone we try to hurt them. I am assumming she cannot kick your a$$ (hopefully) so she is going to try to hurt you emtionally. After all, this whole thing is YOUR fault her mind because you didn't do, blah, blah, blah for her when you guys were together. It's total BS. Granted, not that you should be totally without fault but this is how these things work. We men have our own ways of acting crazy at times but women are sooooo predictable in these situations its scary. MikeSmith is right - you are getting played in a sense. You need to STOP even joking around with her. You can still be happy but be more aloof vice cocky with her. When you say things about her missing you or wanting sex from you or whatever that is conveyed that you WANT that from her which means you want her. Make sense? If she consistently acts decent reward her with a little attention. If she acts bratty and gives you sh*t tests, withdraw your time and attention. You live in San Fran, right? I'll bet there are thousands and thousands of beautiful, sweet and attrative women there that you could easily get with. What has she done to deserve all of your attention and love? Nothing my friend, absoulutely nothing. Keep that in mind in every interaction and exchange with her but don't let it make you angry though. You lead, you set the tone for all the interactions, period! Link to comment
sfindependent Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 Hey folks (especially Real), I can sense a fair knowledge on human behavior with you... It's a passion of mine both personally and professionally. I'm enjoying reading your lengthened posts, opinions and advice... I've found a place and will be moving out TODAY, while she's in NY.... I suppose I can give her a heads up later on tonight as soon as I sign papers and about half way through the moving process (don't want to jinx it). The visual impact of an empty apartment will be quite high, i believe. Overall, I don't think her increasing depressive behavior isn't just related solely towards me. She's lost the motivation to do her art, her idea of unwinding from stressful situations is to drink at the bar (lousy coping mechanism) and avoid her problems (used to be like that but now even moreso). She barely wants to do anything outside the norm of staying in our neighborhood. If I wanted to go out into Berkeley or SF with her to "change things up", she'll decline and say "too far" or "too cold". Her decreasing temperament and inreasing irritability suggests to me some repression going on there somewhere. She did verbalize to me sometime a few weeks ago that " I find myself staying because I feel guilty for leaving you". Ouch. But there WAS a time when she was happy. There's so many varying factors that contribute to her unhappiness that removing myself from the situation would clarify things with her if i was the causal factor to her "depression" or if i was just a victim of her negative energy. There are hundreds, thousands of beautiful women here! I am not sure what kind of contact I'll be having with her in the future but in all honesty, I want her back but right now as I've told her, there's an imbalance between us. Something I want restored. I do not want someone to be with me because they are guilty of leaving me alone (im an alpha male, dang it! Not debilitated!) or are scared of being alone (she has no friends here in CA except for the friends I have. They love her to death btw and not just tolerating her because she's my girl... and two lesbians who drink all the time and hang out at the bar). She's said something about it before where she's frustrated she doesn't have any friends however when my friends tried o take her on girls nights out she declined... I'm not really sure how to follow through with this, I knoW NC, NIC, moving on, nonchalance are the key but of course, the heart is difficult to ignore. I need to have stronger *alls to get over s*it like this. It's just so hard NOT to say anything when you CLEARLY see some of the things that are messed up. Its your posts that keep me level headed. At some point I can dish out great advice, but it's difficult to follow your own advice if you are too convoluted to see the silver lining. Its not necessarily a "game" but if i've to be strategic about my actions to get my desired goal, I need to read advices like what i've been getting. Link to comment
Real Deal Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 She is not going to want you back as long as you still want her (espcially if you say it). It sucks but it's just the way it works man. Once you move on and are not really thinking about her that much anymore is when it will happen. Link to comment
sfindependent Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 yeah i suppose. im moving out as i type. by the time she gets home tomorrow my stuff will pretty much be gone. i have to say, i do think theres a strong possibilitu o reconciliation if i play it right. we dont hate each other. the attraction simply faded away. we didnt have a good foundation of a friendship. if im still interested in te future, i know things wont work out unless we have a better foundation to build upon Link to comment
sfindependent Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 ugh. weak moment. its disappointing really. i wish things were different between us. Link to comment
sfindependent Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 update: i got that victorian i wanted. i wanted it, and got it. that is a man right there if i ever saw one. lol! i moved my stuff last night but kinda figure ill have some more random things shell find laying inthe house for a while. im keeping my car in the garage, im paying for her insurance anyway so that evens it up for thr time being. i texted her to call me last nght and she did after her dinner in NYC. in the beginning she was telling me how wonderful her day went (she was genuinely excited and wanted to share not gloat or throw it in my face). after that i explained to her that i wanted to give her the respect of talking to her rather than texting her or her just finding out, that ive moved out. her mood dropped and i can seriously feel her heart breaking. i changed the topic and told her im picking her up at the airport and looked forward to seeing her. i said goodbye and she didnt respond and just hung up. i am wondering how affected she is and what that means...? my buddy said that overhearinv what i said to Michelle, was perfect. it was cool collected and nonchalant. i really think that this is a goodtime for us to be friends and build a solid foundafion between us. im not looking into divig right back in with her or with anyone but if ever i do, i want it solid and meaningful. as much as people will tell meto go NC on her donkey (get it?hehehe) i think NIC or LC and positivity will go a lot longer way for me. suggestions. opinions, and advice, anyone? Link to comment
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