My boyfriend and his 12yr old daughter kiss & hug constantly. Is this normal?

[pepsis4kids]

We are both 40 and although I get all the attention in the world from my boyfriend of 15 months, it grosses me out to see him and his daughter kiss (on the lips) and hug and the "I love you's" that are constant between them, whom he has 50% of the time. The biggest gross-out for me is the cuddling on the couch. Every night, they are under a blanket, cuddling arm in arm with each other while we watch tv, and I can't even look at them. I sit as far away as I can (I've been invited to join them and always say no thanks). I grew up in a family that doesn't do any of that so I hope I am over-reacting. But when I witness it, and I see it often, I don't think oh how nice that they have such a great relationship, instead I think how gross it is. I know there isn't any sexual inuendos going on (although he see's her naked in the tub or changing her clothes, and that, I feel, is definitely wrong). He thinks I'm the weirdo because my family does not say I love you, or kiss, or hug or any of that. But we are a very close family regardless. I don't need my dad cuddling me and hugging me 5 times a day to prove it. I hope I'm just over-reacting. This behaviour with them is so foreign to me. She is often trying to cuddle up to me as well when we are on the couch and I find ways to get away by saying I'm too hot, or I'm uncomfortable, or I just leave the room. It's too weird. What is really bizarre is the fact that I won the lottery as far as dating a guy with a teenage daughter goes. Shes great, she loves me to death, and she's a good girl. Why am I so bent out of shape about them being so physically close. I hope the response is that I'm an idiot and this is normal, healthy behaviour between dads and daughters. BTW, I have no children. Never wanted any.

[Seraphim]

One is often wary of what they are not used to. If there is nothing happening there then I see nothing wrong with it. That is their family dynamic. Every family has their own. No one is wrong or right, my mother was very tactile and hugged and cuddled us all the time. I am the same with my son. My husband's family is far more cold. That is normal to him. However after spending 22 years with me he thinks being demonstrative with his son is a better way to go as he did not feel too loved in his own family.

[rosephase]

I think it's perfectly normal and pretty healthy to be honest. My family didn't say "I love you" or have a lot of physical intimacy but I always felt loved. I've been around a lot of families that are close like that and it's great. It's not the only way to show love but I think it's fine.

 

My boyfriends brothers family (he has two kids the oldest is now 20 and the youngest is 17) cuddle like crazy. It's normal to find all four of them +friends on there giant couch any given night watching movies when we stay with them we join right in.

 

I think our society is a little screwed up around touch we have a hard time seeing it as anything but sexual and because of that it causes more distance then is necessary. It sounds like your boyfriend and his daughter are happy and loving you should be happy to have people who are healthy and loving in your life. Maybe try and relax a little about it. Maybe even give it a shot and see how cuddling feels.

[Seraphim]

I so agree with you Rose, there is nothing wrong with closeness in a family when there is nothing there but being a loving family. I am close with my son and we cuddle and watch TV sometimes and he is 13. There is definitely nothing creepy in it only that we enjoy human closeness. Some people enjoy the tactile need very much while others hate it.

Even when I was 24 and my brother was 20 we used to sit together now and again and cuddle with our mom and watch TV. Those were the best times ever.

[SongCoyote]

Hey Pepsis4Kids,

 

First off, you're not an idiot or a bad person - you just have a very different outlook.

 

I believe Victoria66 (and others who have posted similarly) is quite right: this is more a case of differences in your upbringing than there being anything wrong going on. If there was any sort of innuendo or if you saw inappropriate touching or other truly bad signs, that would be another thing - but if not, I don't think it's a bad thing at all.

 

For a bit of history, I also grew up in a very tactile family that was quite comfortable with nudity... which was a little tricky for my primary to get used to as they weren't accustomed to someone as demonstrative as I. Over the past 15 years we've accepted each other's quirks, though, and we kiss happily (and sometimes rather passionately) in public, which wasn't quite the case in our first year!

 

Anyway, given all the other wonderful things you spoke of, such as really adoring this guy and having such a good relationship with his daughter, I hope you can find your way past your discomfort to share in their affection - or at least to be comfortable with it. You might even consider telling him how you feel, though I suggest you be very careful and diplomatic about it.

 

Something like, "I'm really glad you and your daughter get along so well. I just want you to know, though, that because of my background I'm sometimes uncomfortable with how affectionate you are with each other. That's why I sometimes won't snuggle with you. It's not because I don't care about you - I really do! - it's just that I'm not used to that kind of interaction within the family. I don't want you to stop, I just want you to know how I feel so you understand."

 

That way it's not confrontational, it's clearly about how you feel and not a judgement of them, and it lets him know that you trust him enough to tell him the truth.

 

It's scary, I know, and I wish you all the best. Be good to yourself and to them, keep a calm center in your heart, and exercise compassion for everyone involved, including you.

 

Light and laughter,

SongCoyote

[Starrgrl]

But a dad seeing his daughter naked at 12 is alittle eh... Don't you think? I mean it's fine until it gets to a certain age, then afterwards it's the alittle strange.

[Seraphim]

I do not think walking into the bathroom by accident when someone is in the bath makes someone a raging pedo, it sometimes happens in families.

 

Society is always looking for ways to make affectionate parents look "weird" or pervy when there is really nothing there.

[LightbulbSun]

I agree with Victoria.

 

People are so accustomed to seeing perverted stuff everywhere. However, not everything is sexual, and people make things fit to their ideals.

 

For example, I have a foot fetish. I find female feet beautiful and sexy, and yes they turn me on. However, take a girl who doesn't view her feet in a sexual way, to her they're "just feet", and suddenly I'm creepy. Another girl, who had a foot fetish herself, would view feet in a sexual way.

 

Now let's throw your boyfriend into the example. You grew up in a household where what he's doing would be taken as sexual (same as me and the foot fetish.) However, your boyfriend is like the girl who doesn't recognize that her feet could be taken as sexy. In that way, he's pure...it's you who is viewing things in a different light, and has the distorted view.

 

That doesn't mean that you're a bad person, but it does mean that you're not compatible with your boyfriend. Because he obviously shares a different view of how to raise a family than you. If you're just having this problem NOW, imagine what would happen if you spent a lifetime together. You'd make each other miserable over it.

 

Bottom line is, you need to either A.) recognize that this is completely normal to him, and doesn't make him perverted, or B.) recognize that you will never be able to accept this, and will have to let him go, no matter how much you love him. If it's B, it's a dealbreaker. If it's A, then you'll be able to work your way through this.

[bulletproof]

I think it's fine. I grew up in a non-touchy family. But as an adult I had a roommate who was very physically affectionate, perhaps because she was European and grew up in a different culture. She brought me around to being more open that way and it's really kind of nice.

[Circe]

I can understand that it makes you uncomfortable because it is not something that you are used to, however, no - I don't think there is anything wrong with it - and I do think it's lovely that they are so close and affectionate. As for seeing her naked - again, I don't think that's a problem provided there is nothing sexual to it. Some people have naked households (kids included) after all.

[Fudgie]

My father and I were always really close...cuddling, slow dancing, i'd kiss him a lot, and tell him "I love you". To this day, I'm still physically affectionate and we end our phone calls with "I love you".

 

I don't think you're a bad person....you're just not used to it! All families are different. You just need to find peace with this somehow.

 

BTW, the fact that she tries to be physical with you shows that she used to being that way with close family members, not just her father. I don't think it's a bad thing.

[PhilliesFan001]

That would make me really uncomfortable too. I come from a very affectionate, huggy/kissy family, but I know if I were you, I'd feel weird about it.

 

Although saying that, I had some abuse issues as a kid so I can't trust my own judgment in terms of what's normal family affection and what isn't. Everything more than a quick hug feels creepy to me so..I'm not the best to say. It seems like everyone else in the thread finds nothing alarming about it, so I'd go with them.

[Cognitive_Canine]

This kind of stuff makes me extremely uncomfortable. I grew up in a very nontouchy household. We didn't really kiss or hug except when saying goodbye. To this day I only really kiss my grandmother and that's on the cheek. I definitely understand the discomfort but to people raised that way, it's healthy and normal.

[Firiel]

It's not abnormal at all. I used to kiss my mom and then my dad on the lips every night when they tucked me into bed. Sometimes while babysitting my husband's young cousins (four and six), I'll put in a movie and they'll both jump onto the couch and cuddle up next to me. I never had any much younger children in my life, so at first it kind of freaked me out, but then I realized it wasn't a big deal and was actually rather sweet.

 

I do understand being uncomfortable about it... despite being kissed on the lips as a kid and not being screwed up by it and knowing it's not inappropriate, it's still something I wouldn't feel comfortable doing with my own kids... not sure why. Just be careful not to how you feel about things like cuddling with the kids on him. Neither one of you is weird or abnormal... just different.

[Stay_home]

Some families tend to have a much greater threshold for affection than other families. As long as he isn't abusing his daughter, then I guess there's really not anything you can do about that. Take into consideration however the number of men out there who do have kids and don't even come see them.

[BellaDonna]

(although he see's her naked in the tub or changing her clothes, and that, I feel, is definitely wrong).

 

In all you described, ^ that is the only thing I think is a little concerning. I don't understand why a child that age would need to have a parent present in the room when they were bathing or changing unless they had special needs.

 

Does he have primary custody? I mean, if there is one bathroom in the house and she is in there bathing and he desperately needs to get something out of the bathroom- fine- but I don't understand why it would be a common occurrence.

[FreedomRing]

^^^^^ I have issue with this part too. I don't think parents should see children of the opposite sex who have reached puberty, unclothed. Doesn't seem right.

[Leona700]

Just the fact that they do this in front of you seems like there is nothing to hide. Most of us when we see a relationship that close we automaticlly assume he's a child molester. However it is a bit strange that he sees her naked since shes about to hit puberty soon but in his eyes she is still a baby. Is she his only child/only daughter because that could also explain that type of relationship. I personally am a very paranoid person when it comes to trusting men. So if you really want to do a little detective work watch him when he dosnt think your there. Check his computer if he watches child pernography. I know this sounds over the top but thats if you are really paranoid. You can also ask his daughter about it. But that can cause BIG Problems if she tell him what you asked. Only ask if you feel you have proof. If you dont then theres nothing to worry about. Dont make any assuptions just observe and make your conclusion with facts. Patience is key. If you find nothing then teach yourself to adapt to a new type of relationship.

[Leona700]

One more thing when I was little my aunt used to kiss all her children the boys and girls in the lips in front of the whole family. It is just another way of affaction.

[buddha55]

I kissed my parents on the lips until age 14 or so. My brothers and I stopped kissing when they were in high school (understanable for teenage boys)... now I kiss and hug my parents on the cheek and all my brothers. I am very affectionate with my friends and greet or say goodbye to them in that fashion as well. My best friend and I (we were both 21/22) used to kiss eachother on the cheek and then the lips as a hello or goodbye. Nothing sexual at all, we were just super affectionate

 

also I don't find the nudity a problem. I was in europe and my boyfriend, his two sisters, and two parents and I all went to a sauna/bathhosue/wellness center and all saw eachother naked. It's not sexual unless you make it.

[afonselaca]

I would feel like something is wrong if my BF acted this way toward his daughter. In fact, something did happen recently that really bothered me but nothing has gone on like this since.

 

So, she was sitting next to him in a restaurant and I was accross the table with my kids. She is 14, he is 44. After everyone had finished eating, except my little one, she leaned up on him and put her left arm on his right shoulder then started talking and telling us about something that happened at school. She reached her right arm up and played with the hair on the top of his head, near his forehead, and twisted the hair and played with it and petted it... much like a girlfriend would do... all the while talking and talking. I was sitting accross from them thinking how uncomfortable, I've got to make this end!! I asked for the check and tried to speed the dinner to a close but she and he were very cozy and happy. Seemed to go on forever!! I was thrilled to get my kids out of there and go home.

 

A few days later I told him that I had been super uncomfortable at dinner and explained why. He really had no idea that was how I had perceived her actions. Never occurred to him although he did wonder why I was looking at him so oddly. So, I proceeded to tell him how I thought they lacked boundaries in their relationship and now that she is a young lady these things just can't go on in public, no matter how close the two of them are. They looked too intimate, they looked like a couple. It was terribly disconcerting to me and I needed him to understand my viewpoint. I also needed it to stop, meaning I needed him to be the adult and put a stop to it, redirect her if you will. It doesn't have to be ugly, or make her feel badly, but it definitely needs to not be so intimate and it is his job as the adult to gauge it.

 

Thankfully, my guy didn't take offense or act defensive. It was a hard talk to have but I'm glad I brought it out into the open.

 

So, my advice would be to have a convo with your guy about boundaries. His boundary in regard to her now that she is hitting puberty. Things must change, she isn't 4yo any longer! Certain things aren't acceptable any longer such as seeing her naked, or her seeing him naked. What you think is inappropriate you should describe, be honest.

 

Watching them kiss and act intimate with her will not only make you wretch every time and turn you off to him, but it could potentially cause huge problems down the road for him.

[penelope13]

It is one thing to tell a partner your preferences, but totally another to demand from him that he changes solely for your benefit. As has been discussed in this thread, different people have different comfort level with affection between family members. While you are entitled to chose how you want to raise your own children I don't feel you have a right to determine and demand from him what is right in his interaction with his daughter.

 

You might be able to rationalize and force him, but what effect will it have on his daughter if all of a sudden her father stops showing her the affection she is used to? She might start doubting his love for her.

[Leona700]

Those are both good points of view. Be honest with him after all what are relationships for. But don't demand him to change right away.

[j.man]

I'm 24 and whenever I visit home and stay at my mother's house, I will kiss her on the lips and hug her as a greeting. There are points throughout the day I might be standing next to her and put my arm around her waist, or put my hands on her shoulders if she's sitting. I always tell her I love her whenever I say bye to her. I do the same for my sister and my aunts and grandma. I've never seen it as a big deal and certainly have never meant it in any way sexual or inappropriate.

 

Had I not been raised in an environment like that, it might put me off to experience it at this stage of my life. You have to realize though that personal boundaries with physical intimacy are extremely relative. Even a daughter playing with her father's hair while she talks to him isn't necessarily a bad thing, nor is the father any less of an adult for not telling her to stop.

 

Ultimately, while there's nothing wrong with being put off, it is up to you to get over it. If that means keeping an open line of communication so that he can keep assuring you there is nothing inappropriate behind it, that shouldn't be a problem. But don't try to mess with the dynamic of his relationship with his daughter.

[afonselaca]

But the dynamic of the relationship between father and daughter is exactly the point. Once the daughter hits a certain age, say puberty, it is no longer appropriate for a father and daughter to carry on as if she is still four. The dynamic must evolve with her age and, unfortunately, if the dad doesn't recognize behavior that could be construed as inappropriate then someone must key him into that fact. Since it was me this round, so be it. I would rather be the one to do it than some uncaring outsider who jumps in and points accusing fingers.

 

J.man, the way you describe your affections toward the women in your family is exactly the way my family is toward one another. My problem rests with the affection that surpasses the level you describe and ventures into the type of intimacy that should be reserved for couples only. There is no healthy reason for a father and daughter to carry on at that level, plus it is not socially acceptable.