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There is a certain subsection of the population that will never find a partner


LightbulbSun
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LightBulbSun,

You're not getting to that age.

I don't think it's ever inappropriate to strike up conversations with women.

Who knows, many of these women may be looking, too.

Have you considered that?

Remember Jooj's post where she gave us some "inside" information on girls wanting guys to ask them out...??

 

At 28, I changed careers and was attending grad school.

I remember sitting in the hall outside of the classes one evening and there was this attractive but older blonde in another seat on the other side of the chairs.

I may have seen her there before, can't recall. (This was 1988 or 89).

 

I was alone that summer in an out-of-state school and an older student who didn't really fit with the younger students at this Big 8 university. I didn't really know anyone in town.

 

After I saw her, I decided to ask her out.

 

No, I had never really made a "cold-call" like that before. But I determined I was gonna change things about my sucky dating life.

 

So I moved closer and sat next to her.

Started a little conversation about the eve. grad. school class she was taking or what field she was in.

I may have approached her by saying, "I'm Fla. Man. I notice you're here tonight for classes too... What field are you in? What do you enjoy about nursing?"

Then I asked her if she'd like to join me for dinner.

 

We met that weekend.

 

That relationship didn't last, but we dated a year or so, so it was one of my more long-term relationships.

 

I didn't ask anyone out like that again on such a spur of the moment, but felt good being comfortable enough to work up the courage to ask a woman out as she was good for me in that I wasn't lonely that year or so and had someone to date.

I think it gave me some confidence that I had been missing.

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I just answered my own question:

 

I need to put myself into the uncomfortable social situations, even if I have a panic attack.

 

You're absolutely right, bulletproof. I need to start asking out girls. Not this particular girl, because it's clear that I screwed that up...but some girl.

 

I am part of a student organization. Maybe I should just sit next to a pretty girl, and try to talk to her, next meeting?

 

It's clear that I'm putting all this social pressure on myself. What is the difference between saying "hi" to a cashier at a store, and saying "hi" to a girl in my class? Nothing.

 

And it's not like I'm 40, or something. Florida Man is right, I haven't gotten to the creepy age yet.

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You know, I'm starting to recognize what the people at Incel Support meant when they said that this wasn't a place for virgins. It's clear that the advice offered here is for people who already have their life together. I'm sorry, but it's cliched advice, and it's something that I've heard before. And for someone with social anxiety, it doesn't work.

 

Consider this my last post on this forum. I'm going to remove myself from here, because it's clear that I'm torturing myself, trying to come up with answers when none of you have any. I might as well just beat my head against the wall; it accomplishes the same thing, and it's much less painful.

Lightbulb, please don't do anything rash in a fit of anger or frustration.

I got mad on another forum where I posted something I thought would help people. Some other poster bashed me, saying, "That's your interpretation!" etc. I almost posted how I was gonna leave that crummy forum and...

I've decided to edit those posts and post that info in a diff. thread.

 

That incel forum? Is that the place you talked about that was real offensive and had a lot of hurtful posts? I thought you said you didn't want to participate there anymore.

It's not workable advice because say:

A.) I join a student organization at college

B.) The "organization" is made up of 18-21 year olds

C.) I face the same situation I do in class, and the cycle repeats.

Then join a group that has older students. Or join one outside of campus, like a religious denomination group (ala Catholic student group).

Do you see where my problem is? I generally don't like and/or feel comfortable asking people in my class to meet for coffee/lunch/whatever outside of class. I go to class, get out of class, and walk home and eat lunch there. I don't even stay on campus, because the last time I did, I felt so uncomfortable that I almost passed out

Lightbulb,

I'm not an MD so I can't address your medical issues, but....

 

You can't just run away from this problem or your shyness.

Honestly, it sounds like you only go to college bec. you have to, and aren't enjoying the full experience that comes from meeting people and getting involved in activities there.

 

My first semester as a freshman, I lived at home with my mom (I had been living out of state with my dad in HS). Though I was involved in a religious student organization a couple of evenings a week and the local church our family attended, I realized pretty quickly that living off-campus was keeping me from meeting people.

So I moved into the dorms where I met many more people.

 

Don't rush off so quickly after class. See if you and some other classmates, guys too (not just women) may want to go to lunch or something. A woman or two may join the group and soon you're meeting more women...

Edited by ClarenceRutherford
Shyness, added
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One more thing before this thread gets shut down

 

I'm glad to offer advice. Me and the other posters don't have to.

It does take time to read and post.

I honestly wish there were internet forums in the late 80s when I was single....

 

Of course, I have a lot more time now as I'm physically (not maritally) separated from my wife who is in another state... but still, I do like to offer assistance.

If interested, I posted my problems here..

link removed

I haven't posted that situation yet here on this forum. Not sure if will. See? Getting married and living with a woman isn't always like the Garden of Eden, huh?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

I first posted here in defense of another poster I thought was unfairly attacked...

Then I read how there are many virgin men in their late 20s, 30s and 40s that needed help.

 

I really felt for them as hey, I had been there too (not successful in dating as I got close to 30 with very limited sexual experience - read my posts).

I thought relating my experiences might help someone...

 

Another guy like you, who is 30 if I recall, has PM'd me.

He thinks he's making big mistakes on dates or asking girls out... I'm trying to help....

If I can get him to tell me what he thinks he's doing wrong...

after all, I made some big mistakes too, like putting my arm around this woman in the movie before we really got to know each other. Big no-no. (I was 25 and should have known better).

 

So don't get too down on yourself... or those of us offering you assistance.

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Like FloridaMan said, join an organization with a more varied (age and gender) membership.

 

-Volunteer for a political cause

- Volunteer at an animal shelter or with an animal rescue group

- Join an organization like Habitat for Humanity or Park Clean-up, or something civic-minded

- See if you school has any groups for older/non-traditional students

 

You need to put yourself in situations where you are seeing the same people (and not just teen girls) every week, so eventually you will become comfortable, come out of your shell a bit and have some social successes.

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Well, friendship is definitely a place to start. I think my problem is that I've been approaching this backwards. I've only been focusing on the girls that I find attractive, and not trying to meet people that are interesting and share my interests. Because, I can meet women through those social circles, too.

 

Don't worry, I'm not in the least bit suicidal. I just meant that I was going to leave THIS FORUM, because I felt that it wasn't helping me. However, the truth is that I'm just hesitant to push myself out of my comfort zone - and I need to 'desensitize' myself to these panic attacks, before I end up 40 and in the same situation.

 

I suppose I am going to college just because I have to. To be honest, I haven't been able to make a friend since 2007. And the friends I have now, most of them are having fun with their spouses and kids, and me being where I am (college student, no job, no spouse or kids), they simply don't have time for me anymore. That's where I want to make NEW friends...but the problem is that the college students are all into Justin Biebler and Twilight, or whatever the new 'fad' is, and I simply just don't give a [beep] about that stuff. The fact that I'm into 90's stuff kind of points out to them that I'm older, even though I look their age.

 

I'd just like to meet a group of college students who aren't into partying, drinking, and Miley Cyrus. I'd love to meet someone who loves the classic rock and alternative bands like I do, or who would rather sit around a table drinking cups of coffee, than downing vodka shots. But I suppose that doesn't come until later.

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Like FloridaMan said, join an organization with a more varied (age and gender) membership.

 

-Volunteer for a political cause

- Volunteer at an animal shelter or with an animal rescue group

- Join an organization like Habitat for Humanity or Park Clean-up, or something civic-minded

- See if you school has any groups for older/non-traditional students

 

You need to put yourself in situations where you are seeing the same people (and not just teen girls) every week, so eventually you will become comfortable, come out of your shell a bit and have some social successes.

 

I'll look for animal rescue organizations in my area. Thanks!

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I read a lot of "if's" here.

 

Imagine being on the Titanic or another sinking ship.

A small boat approaches and offers to rescue people.

 

Some of people on the sinking ship start to murmur.

 

"What if this boat sinks?"

"What if there isn't enough room for all of us?"

"What if there's no meals?"

"What if there aren't enough life jackets?"

"What if I fall trying to get in the rescue boat?"

"What if a storm hits while we're in that other boat?"

"What if .... "What if ...."

 

What if the operator of the other boat says, "Look, I'm here to rescue you. You would prefer to stay with a sinking ship than risk being safe on this ship?

 

Lightbulb, You need to decide this day if you will go forward or remain where you're at.

Edited by ClarenceRutherford
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Everyone needs friends of course but why do you consider them a prerequisite towards getting a girlfriend? Are you suggesting you can't get a girlfriend before you acquire some friends? Considering your circumstances [no social network] have you ever considered internet dating? Of course you are likely going to have to go through several meetups before you click with someone but with internet dating a lot of the work is already done.

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Everyone needs friends of course but why do you consider them a prerequisite towards getting a girlfriend? Are you suggesting you can't get a girlfriend before you acquire some friends? Considering your circumstances [no social network] have you ever considered internet dating? Of course you are likely going to have to go through several meetups before you click with someone but with internet dating a lot of the work is already done.

 

I think people with severe shyness & social anxiety like the OP describes are encouraged by posters (including me) to make friends because this is a way to practice social interaction and social skills. Also, making friends and building up a small social circle will increase his chances of meeting a potential girlfriend through his new friends.

 

The OP has also described himself as quite lonely. I think making some friends will alleviate that, and he won't be quite so desperate to meet a girlfriend, which will make his interactions with women he finds attractive more relaxed. Having some friends will also increase his chances of having a healthy relationship once he finally does get a girlfriend.

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Instead of focusing on finding a pretty attractive girl, you should try looking for a nice, sweet and kind girl. If you want a girl to see beyond your looks and into your soul then you have to do the same thing too.

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Everyone needs friends of course but why do you consider them a prerequisite towards getting a girlfriend? Are you suggesting you can't get a girlfriend before you acquire some friends? Considering your circumstances [no social network] have you ever considered internet dating? Of course you are likely going to have to go through several meetups before you click with someone but with internet dating a lot of the work is already done.

 

No, I'm not suggesting that. But I'd like to make new friends, because I'd like to have someone to go have a beer with on Saturday night, instead of staying in, like I always do.

 

I think being a homebody is the worst thing for a guy. However, when all your friends are busy with their kids or spouses, and don't have time for social stuff anymore, how can you not be a homebody? It's like, what came first: the chicken or the egg? Did the social isolation come first, or did the social anxiety come first?

 

I'd like to have a wide social circle, so that if I "do" want to go out, I can have someone to call. Right now, I don't have that. And, by some chance, I met the love of my life tomorrow, she wouldn't want to fill that void. I mean, who would?

 

I think people with severe shyness & social anxiety like the OP describes are encouraged by posters (including me) to make friends because this is a way to practice social interaction and social skills. Also, making friends and building up a small social circle will increase his chances of meeting a potential girlfriend through his new friends.

 

The OP has also described himself as quite lonely. I think making some friends will alleviate that, and he won't be quite so desperate to meet a girlfriend, which will make his interactions with women he finds attractive more relaxed. Having some friends will also increase his chances of having a healthy relationship once he finally does get a girlfriend.

 

You get it, that's exactly what I'm driving at. Thank you!

 

I think I just need to focus on making friends right now. And that doesn't involve trying to force people, who already have a social circle and don't need more friends, to be my friend. It's clear that that's where I went wrong with that one girl. I shouldn't be frustrated over that, because it's a life experience that I've learned from, but the key is to not doing it again.

 

People don't want to be friends with desperate or needy people. I suppose the key is to not needing friends, but wanting them - therefore, when they show up, I won't put out the needy vibes that I have been.

 

Instead of focusing on finding a pretty attractive girl, you should try looking for a nice, sweet and kind girl. If you want a girl to see beyond your looks and into your soul then you have to do the same thing too.

 

jooj, I think you're misinterpreting what I do.

 

I don't just aim for the "hotties." I also give the more average looking girls a chance. And sometimes a more average girl can be really cute, or beautiful, as well! I got into a debate with Cognitive Canine on this, where we both determined that I was aiming for what she considered 'average', and considered those girls hot...so I aim for the more average girls, anyways.

 

However, I think it's counterproductive to try to date someone I'm not attracted to physically in any way. If there's no physical attraction, we're just going to be friends. Period.

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I think it's counterproductive to try to date someone I'm not attracted to physically in any way. If there's no physical attraction, we're just going to be friends. Period.

As you're not really dating anyone at this stage, it may be counterproductive to rule out women you think you're not attracted to.

Why so focused on looks?

 

Go out with them anyway, Lightbulb, and try to look past her physical appearance.

You don't need to screen potential women out, you want to include as many as you can.

 

Think of it this way what if all these women who you say aren't giving you a chance rule you out bec. they think you look "average" and they rule out any physical attraction?

 

Wouldn't that be a bit unfair?

 

Attraction is more than just the exterior and relationships are based on what's inside the woman/man.

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Isn't it better for you to be with someone that's so nice and kind to you and cares about you even if she is not very attractive then to never try a relationship in your life? If you see a nice sweet girl give her a chance and ask her out and get to know her better and then decide whether or not you want to get into a relationship with her.

Btw lots of girls get turned off when they feel that a guy asked them out just based on their looks.

If you don't want to be from the certain subset of the population that will never find a partner then you've gotta change the way you think.

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Isn't it better for you to be with someone that's so nice and kind to you and cares about you even if she is not very attractive then to never try a relationship in your life? If you see a nice sweet girl give her a chance and ask her out and get to know her better and then decide whether or not you want to get into a relationship with her.

Btw lots of girls get turned off when they feel that a guy asked them out just based on their looks.

If you don't want to be from the certain subset of the population that will never find a partner then you've gotta change the way you think.

 

Guys are very visual. It's not just me - it's all guys.

 

If I dated someone who I wasn't attracted to physically, that would be like turning off my masculinity.

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You said in your original post that you're not attractive. Don't you want a girl to give you a chance and get to know you better before rejecting you based on your looks?

Exactly.

Guys are very visual. It's not just me - it's all guys.

If I dated someone who I wasn't attracted to physically, that would be like turning off my masculinity.

But, Lightbulb, it's getting a little late to be too picky.

 

What good is your masculinity now?

 

No one's saying you have to marry any of these girls. I see them more as "practice" dates as some have recommended (just don't tell them that).

 

You're not "using" them but are working to gain experience.

 

Who knows. You may fall in love with a "nice, sweet and kind girl" as Jooj wisely recommends.

Listen to her, LightBulb. She knows from experience. (And don't think she's somehow "ugly" or unattractive).

Edited by ClarenceRutherford
added Joog's appropriate quote
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Oh, and Florida, Incel Support is an okay site, sort of. That wasn't the site I was talking about in the OP.

 

Although I have gotten fed up with the site in the OP. One of the admins just sent me a link to an article via pm, and I was highly offended. There are some decent people on that site, but they just elected one of the most unreasonable posters to an admin position, which is like handling it over to an extremist.

 

It's just a hopeless situation over there. People try to talk you out of having hope. I don't like that, so I'm through going over there (in fact, I'll use a bit of tech savvy, and "block" that site from even opening in my browser, so I'm not even tempted.)

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LightBulb,

 

I think you should date women that you find attractive. That being said, there are so many nice, kind girls out there who are average-looking and up. Most people find "average" attractive depending on their tastes. Do you feel the same? And yes, hygiene is key.

 

Don't date models ("10s") only. I say this to everyone regardless of how they look. I would even tell Brad Pitt not to just date "10s". Why? Because I feel you're passing up on so many awesome women and really limiting yourself. There just aren't many people out there who are 10s.

 

If you find yourself unattracted to ANYONE but those who are model-like, I do consider that a problem and suggest you work on it. Like I said, it has nothing to do with your looks. It has everything to do with being limited and passsing up some nice girls who could be attractive to you if you gave them the chance.

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Fudgie,

 

Well, the girl I had a crush on, who I was getting the negative vibes from, is average looking. She is no stunner - but at the beginning, when things were "cool" between us, I was highly attracted to her personality.

 

Now...I don't know what to do. I'm actually skipping yoga class today, because I don't have a clean pair of gym shorts (stupid reason, I know, but no working washing machine/dryer here, and I don't have time to run out to the laundromat.) But even if I went, I'm pretty sure her reaction would be the same. She hates me for some reason, maybe because of what jenny said, maybe not. All I know is that she hates me, and I don't want to be around someone with that much negative energy. Granted, I haven't been in the best of moods lately, but that's how I feel. Negativity breeds negativity.

 

I never said I would date just for looks. In fact, if a girl is a stunner and her personality is crap, I wouldn't even want to be around her (how many times have I said this before?) And if she's more average looking, but has a fun personality, I'd want to be around her. However, I'm not going to date someone I find unattractive, because A.) it's not fair to me or the girl, and B.) she deserves to find someone who does find her attractive.

 

I am no Brad Pitt, but some good looking girls have found me attractive in the past. And I'm sure they will again. Isn't it better to hold out for that, rather than give in and settle for someone I don't want, just to not be alone? I can understand the practice dating aspect of it, but that also makes me hesitant, because I don't think it's fair to the girl. If she develops feelings for me, and I'm just using her as a "practice date", isn't that hurtful to her?

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Well, my question is, do you find average girls unattractive and only like REALLY gorgeous women?

 

Because regardless of who you are, I could see this being a problem.

 

There's nothing wrong with saying "I won't date someone who is morbidly obese and doesn't shower." Fair enough. But if you're passing up girl after girl because they are average and you're not feeling that "wow" moment the SECOND you meet her, then yes, I consider this to be a problem, regardless of what you look like.

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if you're passing up girl after girl because they are average and you're not feeling that "wow" moment the SECOND you meet her, then yes, I consider this to be a problem, regardless of what you look like.

Don't judge things by feeling some kind of "wow" moment.

 

My first date with my future wife, a blind date set up by her best friend, did not go so well. (She set her up on a lot of dates ).

 

She seemed nice, but didn't express much interest in me and wasn't as conversational as me and the other couple. I tried to bring her into the conversation, but only got short responses.

 

Her best friend this Christmas told us she sensed it was a "disaster date" so Plan B had us going for a drive around town. At the scenic overlook, she and I found ourselves alone and talked more and she seemed okay.

 

As I was 30 and seriously looking for a life partner, I told myself earlier in the eve., "This isn't gonna work. She's not interested in me. I'll get through this night and try to date someone else..."

 

During the next week or two, I kept thinking I needed to call her friend for her number...

 

---- If I had followed my first hunch, I wouldn't have married her.

So don't judge a potential date by the way things go on that first date.

First impressions aren't always accurate.

To think that I almost ruled her out of my life.... We've been married 14 years now...

 

Another lesson: for those single and getting late in life, value friends and their connections. Maybe one of your friends knows someone you could go out with and arrange for a blind date. They can work.

Edited by ClarenceRutherford
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