There is a certain subsection of the population that will never find a partner

[LightbulbSun]

Goals:

 

1. Walk every day, go to the college gym 3 times a week and get on the treadmill

2. Get new glasses

3. Join some community groups (right now, the campus is closed for Thanksgiving, so I have to wait until Monday)

4. I am going to a fundraiser for an organization I support on Sunday. Maybe I'll meet some people there.

5. There is a meetup group coming up soon, which I will RSVP and go to.

6. I will talk to the people in my classes. Like rich said, now I can talk to my former crush and break down that tension. And I can maybe form a study group in that class. As well as yoga goes, I can practice talking to people in there, and also try starting a conversation with my crush.

7. I will aim on getting a male mentor. I think I will open up to my friend who's good with women, and see if he can offer advice.

 

Those are my goal aims. Is there anything you can add to the list?

[LightbulbSun]

This is totally true. I think it's great that you're working on your appearance, especially since you think it will help you build confidence, but you need to remember that working on emotional issues is really what's going to help you most. You seem like a smart and kind guy, but in your threads you can come accross as a bit bitter and overwhelmed with women. I can't say that I blame you, given your history with dating, but that's the first thing that you need to work on. No one - Brad Pitt or the ugliest guy on the planet or someone totally average - is going to attract people (not even romantically, just generally) when their personality is clouded by bitterness.

 

You're right.

 

And I think I've discovered that my priorities are screwed up. I can't just see a pretty girl, and say, "I want to date that girl" without ever even talking to her. That's what you guys have made me realize - that I need to form a connection, before I can even consider someone a crush. That's like saying, "Oh, I have a crush on Christina Aguilera".. come on! I don't even know her!

 

I need to be more open minded about things. That fight I started with Capricorn...well, that ended badly, and made me feel horrible. Bottom line is, if I want peace in my life, I have to treat others with respect...and I've been making a poor shot at that recently. Especially in regards to girls, and treating them like goddesses simply because they're attractive.

 

Someone called me shallow in the other thread, I think it was Sparkley Eyes. I HAVE been acting shallow. I guess I never grew out of that teenage mentality of rating women, but I really need to grow out of it now. Because it is immature, and it only serves to be my enemy when it comes to dating. And if I'm not an Andonis, I shouldn't expect a model.

 

I really need to talk this over with my therapist, because I believe that this is part of a self sabotage. There are such things as dating leagues, and since I'm always aiming out of my league, I never have to face acceptance. Therefore I can wallow in self pity and bitterness, and say all women are the same, when they're not. The average girl has just as much to offer me as the attractive girl, and since I'm average myself, I'd have more in common with her.

 

Basically, I'm going to stop sabotaging myself, and creating threads like this that are basic self pity fests. This thread should have never been created, let alone gone on for 26 pages. It's about time that I start respecting myself, and accepting myself, instead of rejecting myself.

[newwave]

Lightbulbsun, I think you are hitting on your problems with what you posted. The thing is people often aim too high then say 'that person's a jerk' when they reject you. For instance, let's say I was a cashier at a store (I'm not btw) and only decided to date doctors and lawyers. If I came on here and stated this I'd get bashed (and rightfully so) saying I am dating out of my league. Meanwhile I'm rejecting a cop or a teacher because they aren't good enough for me. See where I'm going? Sure, most people would rather date the doctor or lawyer over the cop or teacher, but there are likely more cops and teachers than doctors and lawyers. This is the same thing with every aspect of dating. I posted about the ad I saw from an obese guy looking for a skinny gal and "no fatties". Being that he's obese himself he shouldn't be aiming that high. Sure he MIGHT find a skinny girl, but he might also be overlooking another large lady who'd be a great match.

 

This is different than denying someone who doesn't share values or morals you do.

[LightbulbSun]

Yeah, I agree.

 

Bottom line is, I need to somehow 'turn off' that switch where I develop a crush, and a whole persona, based on the way a person looks. That is definitely troubling, because A.) the pretty girl that I like could turn out to be a total b, and B.) we might not be compatible, anyways.

 

I think what I need to do is to sit back, and instead of forcing my opinions on you guys, I should just sit back and observe. Not stop posting entirely, and give advice when I have it (because I know how relationships work, to some extent), but as far as the attraction and the beginning parts, I should just sit back and let other posters give advice. Because what I've been doing here is not listening; I can understand ToV's frustration. I haven't really been listening for the past three years I've been a member, just becoming more and more set in my ways.

 

It's time to listen.

[tiredofvampires]

This is a bit of a thread bump, but in my last post, I said I was going to post once more (and extensively, haha.) And I'd like to make good on that.

 

In some ways, this feels after the fact because I think this thread's kind of had it and you're moving on with pragmatic threads, which is good.

 

I do want to make a few concluding remarks though, and leave you with a few concepts.

 

Before that though, let me just say that I am encouraged to see your list, as well as that you've started a journal which it seems you're actively using. I have not had a chance to do more than just skim it briefly, but it seems you're serious about your goals, as set out on this thread and in your list. I can't think of anything to add to the list, and if you actively and aggressively pursue getting involved in all the types of networking you've indicated (organizations, link removed, etc.), you'll vastly open up opportunities to meet people and practice conversing in many situations which I believe will bear fruit. It will help you gain in so many ways, and could eventually lead to your goals not just of female interaction but work as well. So I think you have enough here to start and I hope you get very involved -- you have enough interests here to generate a lot of social potential.

 

I think your journal is fine as a solo journal, but some time down the line you might want to consider moving it to the journals that others can comment on, if they have suggestions for problems you're running into along the way -- it's a direct way of getting feedback from posters, without having to make a separate thread (or in addition to).

 

I like the conclusions you've drawn at the end of this thread -- and if this thread has had the effect of lighting a fire at last under your ass, then it was all worth it. Because you're right -- you've been here a long time, on this board, and the bottom line is that your time is really long up for waiting for some better time, when you feel better "in your own skin" to make things happen in your life. That line of thinking is the figure 8 symbol lying on its side. You feeling more confident to do things with women requires doing things you're not confident about, to get there -- that's the paradox. Years pass quickly at this age, and you have a lot of work cut out for you. So if not now, when? It's your time to hit the ground running.

 

I don't think this thread "should have never been started", if this time you're going to hit the ground running because of it. However, I'd like to make a suggestion and of course, you can reject it. If I were in your place I would vow never -- and I mean, NEVER -- to start a thread like this again in the future. Because it's not where your mind needs to be, it's of no use to you in what must be done. You should consider this line of thinking closed, like a road that will not be used anymore, or at least not entertained and enabled by making it into a thread. There will always be jaded people to respond to such threads; always be people on the other side, telling you they think it's malarchy. But none of it has any relevance to your direction now and is only polluting to your mind, to put emphasis there. You will never know the future and it's not your business to try to figure it out now, in service to your goals. It's only counterproductive. It will ALWAYS be counterproductive. Whether you're 30 or 40 or 50 and beyond. It's a dead-end of thought, a fork that leads straight into a brick wall...when the other fork of action and planning and goal-setting and visualizing what you want leads to life. So don't even go there. I would suggest that you consider not posting any more threads that have to do with lament or hypotheticals, but only practical and emotional roadblocks you run into along the way as you encounter actual situations/predicaments you want feedback on.

 

I'm glad you've concluded you have to listen more. This is a very good trait in a person, and good you've come to it. Listening in this case leading to doing.

 

I think your idea of finding a male mentor is a good idea. I'd like to say something about this. I would be all for a small gang of savvy ENA dudes like Richpart, Strawberry Yogurt, Galaxy, PTH, etc. being able to provide "fly on the wall" observation and immediate feedback in social situations with women. That would be great -- even better than a female therapist. But I did not suggest something like this because it's completely practically out of the question for every obvious reason, and I might add, even if you had such a group of guys you knew who would be willing to do this in real life (how would that work? a group of guys within earshot of your conversing but being unobtrusive?). So lacking that luxury, what else is there? You say you'll ask your male friend with experience about this, and I'm all for that, but earlier in this thread you shot that down quite soundly when Lamour suggested it. You said it would be like "ripping out your soul and eating it" and even if you did do this, this dude couldn't contribute much insight of any sort except some pat, generic answer. So you shot down your male friends as options. And it's clear your therapist -- even given all the good work he's done with you for other problems -- is not competent to help you with this problem, with what you've stated. (Which I find highly odd for a therapist, but this is a weak point then for him that means you've come to a limit with him.)

 

What that leaves you with is women -- either women friends or a woman professional. When I mentioned women friends, you said "I have friends, but I'm introverted and would rather keep to myself." So that was also stricken from the possibilities. You really left nothing but this: another therapist, someone paid. And in light of the fact that your current therapist is not helping you in this way, which is a subject very critical to your emotional health now, I see having the benefit of another therapist who is more versatile and focused on this subject to be quite important to your recovery.

 

You could choose another male therapist...OR you could choose a woman. Which would be somewhat uneasy perhaps at first, but I can tell you from personal experience that working with an opposite sex therapist when you've had problems with the opposite sex has a healing property of its own. Because you are getting a sympathetic and nonjudgmental, supportive, listening example of the gender that has caused you pain, and that in and of itself is therapeutic. Not to mention, if you do get to roleplay with a therapist, in a situation where you're nervously anticipating an event, how much weirder is it going to feel doing that with a man than a woman? I think you'd be surprised that dialoguing with a female therapist would not carry "sexual tension" because of the nature of the professional atmosphere that's created. I think it would in your case help to actually dissipate some of the phobia just by addressing dicey issues with someone who you feel uncomfortable with at first but proves there's nothing to fear with.

 

Given all of the above inventory of ways to seek help, this one seemed the only way, really. Given that you took all others off the table for one reason or the other, as viable. But then you started to flip-flop, (which you do often, and I'd add, becoming aware you do this would be a good move), and you said you'd talk to your male friend after all, that you're looking to be mentored (which would cost money if it was regular and session-styled, as opposed to a few random bits of advice from him as a buddy). You also then said that "women haven't helped you" (in a flip-flop from your earlier stating that most of your friends are women and you prefer talking to women, as a "male lesbian") -- even though you ought to note that this thread is composed of about 97% women advising you, most of them providing multiple posts to you. Have none of them helped you? If women don't help you as you said, and it's now just about "male bonding", should women refrain from advising you on this site, on your threads? If the answer is no to that, then why in real life would you not seek the advice of a woman/women as well?

 

So there has been a good deal of back and forth. And I hope that you won't in this state of ambiguity just keep chugging along with your therapist and stay at status quo. I think I'm the only one on this thread supporting a female therapist (except maybe Cap), but my rationale is as I stated, and it was based on your own reported limitations of finances, social resources and current therapeutic outcomes.

 

Finally, I'd just like to say that I haven't heard a more ludicrous contention (or implication) lately than this one: men know what women need/like/want more than women do. That is absolutely bogus. To make a rather crude analogy (but if it's good for the sex forum, it's good here), who do you think can tell you what feels best in a blowjob, a man or a woman? Women can get together and have girlie practice sessions with dildos and talk about what turns a guy on, how to work the technique, and how to know when you sense a guy is digging what you're doing, reading his signals. But who actually is standing in the shoes of the person who's being "read"? The gal or the guy? Women can tell you when they sense a guy's enjoying or not enjoying what they're doing, but if you want to get it form the horse's mouth, you've got to ask a guy. And we're never going to have a penis to know, ourselves.

 

So to translate this into men knowing what women like in a prospective dating/flirtation situation, you can definitely learn a lot about what women go for from other guys. You can especially learn how they know "signals" of a gender they don't belong to. But this is no replacement for what women have to say about women. Women do not know less about being women than men know about being women, lol. PERIOD.

 

And so women are inherently the MOST qualified to tell you what they find inviting, what they find repellant, what they find "off", what they find creepy, what makes them relax and open up, etc. This is not about some gross, superficial list of traits women look for in a guy. This is about live interchange and what women respond well to, and what they don't. Even in this, there will be a lot of variation; I respond well to a man who is not too bold, but more understated, for instance, whereas other women prefer a very bold type. But what I'm getting at is that if you took orchidrose, Capricorn, bulletproof, Fudgie, sweetpea and all the women who have advised you in multiple posts on this thread and brought them along to watch you interact live, we would have as much viable, instructive, eye-opening feedback as the gentleman I mentioned earlier.

 

And in fact, if those gentlemen are worth their weight in salt, they will say about the same things as we do, more or less, if we were to all observe you with a keen and perceptive eye.

 

So I just needed to debunk the idea that women don't know themselves. Confused people are confused, male or female. But women are not more confused about how they feel in an interaction and what feels right, or possess less self-insight as a whole, than their counterpart (men).

 

I think you're on the right track and I really hope you will not drop the ball here, because this could be a turning point for you, LBS. Good luck.

[shy2cool]

I think I am not attractive to anyone. I am a total contradiction - I like my alone time with technology and games but I also like to party/socialise, which is rare because my network of friends is limited.

 

I am not geeky enough for the geeks, and am considered too geeky for regular girly girls.

[BriarRose]

I think I am not attractive to anyone. I am a total contradiction - I like my alone time with technology and games but I also like to party/socialise, which is rare because my network of friends is limited.

 

I am not geeky enough for the geeks, and am considered too geeky for regular girly girls.

 

I can sort of relate to this. I am too wild for conservative people, but too responsible for the wild folk.

[Raize]

Basically, I'm going to stop sabotaging myself, and creating threads like this that are basic self pity fests. This thread should have never been created, let alone gone on for 26 pages. It's about time that I start respecting myself, and accepting myself, instead of rejecting myself.

 

I totally agree with you on this one man. I have massively cut back on how often I visit ENA and make threads regarding my love life woes. I cannot emphasize enough how great people's advice to me has been for the few years I have been on ENA, but I found that my solution was to go online looking for help way more than was necessary instead of focusing on the situation in reality.

 

I used to write diary entries a lot, every time my lovelorness feels especially tough to deal with. Now, I just 'suck it up' and deal with the now instead of running away from life and writing about it. Has my love life changed for the better for it? No and I'm not sure it ever will, but for me dwelling over it in diaries and forums is only good to a point, but too much and it makes everything worse not better. Mainly because it makes me overanalyse and procrastinate things the more I think/write about them.

 

And on that note that's all from me!

[newwave]

I can sort of relate to this. I am too wild for conservative people, but too responsible for the wild folk.

 

The in betweeners (these are what I'll call people like you) seem to be at an disadvantage. I would call myself a betweener because I'm somewhat religious but not too religious. I want a man with certain conservative views (doesn't sleep around, would marry me if I become pregnant) but certain liberal views (wouldn't expect my career to come after his). I've met exactly one guy with the same views: the one I want. Most guys fall into either the sleep around category or the chauvinist pig.

[bostonbruins44]

The in betweeners (these are what I'll call people like you) seem to be at an disadvantage. I would call myself a betweener because I'm somewhat religious but not too religious. I want a man with certain conservative views (doesn't sleep around, would marry me if I become pregnant) but certain liberal views (wouldn't expect my career to come after his). I've met exactly one guy with the same views: the one I want. Most guys fall into either the sleep around category or the chauvinist pig.

''Most guys fall into either the sleep around category or the chauvinist pig '',I don't think that's true ,I think your current pickiness is clouding your judgement .

[BriarRose]

Yeah, I have met some really nice guys in my life - some pigs, sure, but some nice guys, too. So things didn't work out - either they didn't like me or I didn't like them, but at least I know there are nice guys out there. Just look how many nice guys are here on ENA. But whether I end up with one at my age, who knows. Maybe I will be one of the 10% of Americans that never marries.

[newwave]

''Most guys fall into either the sleep around category or the chauvinist pig '',I don't think that's true ,I think your current pickiness is clouding your judgement .

 

I'm not picky except when it comes to not dating dads. I don't want to get into that again but the whole dad thing along with the never married is partly due to religion and I wish more people would respect this view of mine. Yes I will admit I'm still in love with the guy I want and this will never change. I'm smart enough to know this and yes it will affect if I find someone else. I also know that if I don't end up with him I will likely just take the next never married childless man I meet and hope I fall in love.

[BriarRose]

''Most guys fall into either the sleep around category or the chauvinist pig '',I don't think that's true ,I think your current pickiness is clouding your judgement .

 

Newwave, I think since you were/are a model, that you have experienced more sexual come-ons and lude behavior than us average folk. A beautiful woman is going to bring out the beast in many men, lol!

[newwave]

Yeah, I have met some really nice guys in my life - some pigs, sure, but some nice guys, too. So things didn't work out - either they didn't like me or I didn't like them, but at least I know there are nice guys out there. Just look how many nice guys are here on ENA. But whether I end up with one at my age, who knows. Maybe I will be one of the 10% of Americans that never marries.

 

But how many were never married and childless? See that's my big issue. I could meet the nicest guy but if he has kids I am out of there. I'm not interested in playing stepmother so these nice guys wouldn't be good for me. I know there are still never married childless men at all ages so I keep that in my mind. It's why I'm looking now though I love someone, because if he doesn't come around then I still have a chance at one of these guys.

[newwave]

Newwave, I think since you were/are a model, that you have experienced more sexual come-ons and lude behavior than us average folk. A beautiful woman is going to bring out the beast in many men, lol!

 

Probably. I've seen the worst in everyone, men and women.

[Yaz]

I reckon I'm out. The dating game sucks, I want to play Hungry, Hungry Hippo.

 

There was only one man for me, and he found better things. I don't think I will ever find anything ever again for me. Just gotta be happy single

 

Hey newwave - you want to go on vacation somewhere?

[bostonbruins44]

I'm not picky except when it comes to not dating dads. I don't want to get into that again but the whole dad thing along with the never married is partly due to religion and I wish more people would respect this view of mine. Yes I will admit I'm still in love with the guy I want and this will never change. I'm smart enough to know this and yes it will affect if I find someone else. I also know that if I don't end up with him I will likely just take the next never married childless man I meet and hope I fall in love.

Okay maybe ''picky'' wasn't the correct term ,how about your ''selectiveness'' ..

[newwave]

Yaz I wish you loved closer. I definitely need a vacation now.

 

Okay maybe ''picky'' wasn't the correct term ,how about your ''selectiveness'' ..

 

We all have selectiveness some are more out there. This requirement is something not flexible.

[bostonbruins44]

Yaz I wish you loved closer. I definitely need a vacation now.

 

 

 

We all have selectiveness some are more out there. This requirement is something not flexible.

It's odd though since you seem to have such a strong desire to marry yet you have such stringent qualities that you are looking for in a man ..What is more important for you that you attract the ''right '' guy who may have a child or someone not so right for you who is childless ?

[newwave]

It's odd though since you seem to have such a strong desire to marry yet you have such stringent qualities that you are looking for in a man ..What is more important for you that you attract the ''right '' guy who may have a child or someone not so right for you who is childless ?

 

In that option a childless man who's not so right. A guy with a kid would never be right. I don't think what I am looking for is stringent. It's for many reasons, including religious (which I've explained before). I prefer a childless guy who's right but would take a childless man over a father, which is a no way. I'd date a guy with a criminal record before a dad.

[BriarRose]

Probably. I've seen the worst in everyone, men and women.

 

That is understandable. I had a friend in my youth who was drop-dead gorgeous and it got to a point I didn't want to go clubbing with her anymore because it was like I was invisible to the guys. I felt badly, she was a nice girl, but I would always go home feeling crappy. So in some ways, I think it's hard for beautiful women - I probably was not the first person to treat her that way.

[newwave]

That is understandable. I had a friend in my youth who was drop-dead gorgeous and it got to a point I didn't want to go clubbing with her anymore because it was like I was invisible to the guys. I felt badly, she was a nice girl, but I would always go home feeling crappy. So in some ways, I think it's hard for beautiful women - I probably was not the first person to treat her that way.

 

The main problem was that guys thought I wouldn't be interested in them and in many cases I was. Like the one I want, he thought I had no interest. But I did and still do.

[bostonbruins44]

In that option a childless man who's not so right. A guy with a kid would never be right. I don't think what I am looking for is stringent. It's for many reasons, including religious (which I've explained before). I prefer a childless guy who's right but would take a childless man over a father, which is a no way. I'd date a guy with a criminal record before a dad.

There's nothing inherently wrong with your preferences but you do have to realize and accept that it isn't necessarily going to be easy to find what you are looking for ,so you should be hesitant to COMPLAIN because in large part you are creating the situation yourself with the narrow qualifications that you are looking for .

[newwave]

It's never easy to find anyone so I'm fine with it. I wouldn't say I'm creating the situation because it's something I can't budge on. I can't consider a guy who's divorced with kids and this won't change.

[Yaz]

Just keep at it newwave

I'm pulling for you!