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There is a certain subsection of the population that will never find a partner


LightbulbSun

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I'm not sure whether I should get a female therapist. Right now, I have no insurance, so even paying my male therapist is a hassle. I'm broke all the time. I honestly don't think I can afford a second therapist, just for the reason that she is female and we'll be able to roleplay.

 

Well it's up to you. But if your current therapist is not helping you in the area you most need help and you've come to a stalemate, just seeing him to see him isn't going to bring you closer to the goal. And I do think ongoing therapy is pretty important for you with the severity of your difficulties. I myself have just decided to switch therapists (if I even go to any more therapy) because my current therapist can't take me any further. These things can be security blankets -- but stagnant. I'm pretty loyal as a patient, and I understand feeling safe with all the trust you've built with a particular one.

 

But your ultimate goal is get effective treatment. A female therapist might offer insights, or even fresh blood, that you can't even foresee.

 

If you're broke and spending your hard-earned money on therapy, I say try some other therapy/-pists that might help more, where you're at NOW. You've got little to lose.

 

Call's yours.

 

ETA: I rather like the idea galaxy had of goal-setting. There are a number of posters here who have personal growth goals they want to chronicle, such as weight loss, or rehabilitation of some kind, and they make that into a journal in the Journals section. Maybe that would be helpful for you, to start a journal here for that purpose, so you can see your progress in this effort and what is being tried/done and the outcomes, and to keep you focused.

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wow...ummm....worry wart.

 

dude...if the guy I like even so much as hinted at wanting to have sex with me, I'd be one happy camper. I'm sure he'd be juuussstt fine, too. lmao

 

wait til you find a girl who's interested in you. it's rare we are. or at least, for me.

 

You're right, of course.

 

And being a fan of someone like Christina Aguilera, it proves that some women are as sexually driven as men. And that they go for what they want. I sincerely doubt that Christina Aguilera's (now ex) husband asked her out; he seemed like a beta male.

 

I just need to be lucky enough to have an attractive girl make the first move. And one thing that that list has shown me is that that has happened several times over the years. I just need for it to happen ONE TIME, when I'm comfortable enough to make a move back, and bam! I'm dating.

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Well it's up to you. But if your current therapist is not helping you in the area you most need help and you've come to a stalemate, just seeing him to see him isn't going to bring you closer to the goal. And I do think ongoing therapy is pretty important for you with the severity of your difficulties. I myself have just decided to switch therapists (if I even go to any more therapy) because my current therapist can't take me any further. These things can be security blankets -- but stagnant. I'm pretty loyal as a patient, and I understand feeling safe with all the trust you've built with a particular one.

 

Did I mention that I used to be agoraphobic? I wouldn't be able to leave the house, without having a panic attack. Now I'm able to live by myself, go to college, take the bus, walk into a store by myself and go through the checkout, and communicate with people.

 

Obviously that was the main thing that my therapist was working on, because he wanted me to be able to be self sufficient. Now he's pushing me towards getting a job, which is next on my list.

 

We have talked about dating and relationships, but this is a guy that I can relate to well, because he was a nerd in high school and no girl wanted to be with him. He's now married, but he said that he tried to talk his girlfriend (now wife) out of marrying him, because he thought she could do so much better.

 

He's pretty much clueless when it comes to attracting girls, since he just had a couple of girlfriends fall into his lap, and his self esteem was obviously okay enough that he was able to date them. Me, I had girl after girl fall into my lap, and I would always run away. He's not sure how to help me with that.

 

However, I disagree that a female therapist would be able to help me more, because A.) girls don't know how to attract girls, unless they're lesbians, and B.) I probably would feel extremely uncomfortable sharing all my relationship and sexual insecurities with a woman, especially if she's attractive. I'd feel like she was judging me.

 

What I need to do is to make new male friends, or ask my one friend if he knows how I can break the ice with girls. After all, he's good at it, maybe he'll know how to help me. We are really good friends, so I don't think he'd judge me; at the very most, he'd probably have all the questions about my sexuality answered (J isn't asexual, he just happens to freeze up around girls...good, I can work with that...etc.)

 

But your ultimate goal is get effective treatment. A female therapist might offer insights, or even fresh blood, that you can't even foresee.

 

I don't see how, other than creating sexual tension where there wasn't before, or making me uncomfortable.

 

If you're broke and spending your hard-earned money on therapy, I say try some other therapy/-pists that might help more, where you're at NOW. You've got little to lose.

 

Call's yours.

 

Well, right now I need to schedule an appointment with my current therapist...I haven't seen him for a month. I dunno, maybe I should change therapists? I just hate the idea of having to go over my mental illness history, of my social anxiety history, and all that with a new therapist.

 

ETA: I rather like the idea galaxy had of goal-setting. There are a number of posters here who have personal growth goals they want to chronicle, such as weight loss, or rehabilitation of some kind, and they make that into a journal in the Journals section. Maybe that would be helpful for you, to start a journal here for that purpose, so you can see your progress in this effort and what is being tried/done and the outcomes, and to keep you focused.

 

I created a thread a month ago called "LightbulbSun's Dating and in general progress thread." I will start posting in it, and maybe have a mod move it to relationships instead of dating, so that it involves friendship as well?

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I just need to be lucky enough to have an attractive girl make the first move. And one thing that that list has shown me is that that has happened several times over the years. I just need for it to happen ONE TIME, when I'm comfortable enough to make a move back, and bam! I'm dating.

 

Twenty-two pages of a thread and you're back to the same idea- waiting for something to happen to you instead of making the changes you need to make? This just doesn't seem like a very good plan.

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I just need to be lucky enough to have an attractive girl make the first move.

I have noticed in nearly ALL your threads and posts, you are very focused on wanting an attractive girl, which indicates that you are not even willing to give the average girl a chance. I have no doubt that by doing that, you are, and probably will, lose out on many many good opportunities of actually finding a girlfriend. I find it really interesting, considering you yourself have said many times before that you're not exactly an oil painting yourself, yet you don't give an ordinary girl a chance either. Double standards, perhaps? Tunnel vision ... open your mind more .... expand your way of thinking ... and all of that good stuff.

 

As to therapists: I agree with TOV, maybe it's time to change your therapist. I say this because after reading your many threads, and hearing that you have been in therapy since your teens or a very young age, it seems you haven't really had much constructive help at all. You still have many issues and I can't help wondering what exactly your therapist is doing to help you overcome them? I would strongly recommend changing to someone new. Like TOV says, maybe some fresh blood will actually bring some positive results.

 

Good luck.

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However, I disagree that a female therapist would be able to help me more, because A.) girls don't know how to attract girls, unless they're lesbians, and B.) I probably would feel extremely uncomfortable sharing all my relationship and sexual insecurities with a woman, especially if she's attractive. I'd feel like she was judging me.

 

I'm not sure that I understand the push for you to get a female therapist, frankly, but I disagree about a female being unable to tell you how to attract other females. Seriously - why do you think there are guys all over this board looking for female advice on how to deal with women or with particular situations with women? Because women know what women want. And men know what men want. Of course, you cannot generalize for an entire gender, but a female can give you a better perspective on what you can say or do to attract women than a male can, in my humble opinion, because she lives that everyday. I don't go to my girlfriends with questions about men; I go to my male friends.

 

Do you feel uncomfortable discussing sex and relationships with your male therapist? There are people who aren't cut out for discussing intimate sexual details with a relative stranger, but if you can't discuss it with someone who's there explicitly and exclusively to help you - regardless of gender - then you're going to have a hard time being in an intimate (both sexual and emotional) relationship. I've found that being able to communicate about my relationships in therapy has directly translated into being better able to communicate with my partner in my relationships.

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Twenty-two pages of a thread and you're back to the same idea- waiting for something to happen to you instead of making the changes you need to make? This just doesn't seem like a very good plan.

 

I never said this.

 

I plan to make changes in my life. Become more social and comfortable around people, in general. But my problem has always been that a girl has chased me, and I've been so socially STUPID that I screwed it up. Maybe if I felt more comfortable in my own skin, I wouldn't do that?

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Who said that I'm not attracted to average girls, or that I only chase the supermodels?

 

Some of the girls I've found incredibly sexy have been average. I don't only go after the supermodels. The last girl I crushed on before these two recent girls was chubby and wore glasses...I still found her cute as hell.

 

It seems like you're making judgments, based upon me saying that I want to be attracted to the girl I am potentially going to date. Well, what is wrong with that? If there is no sexual attraction, then it's only friendship. You wouldn't have sex with someone you weren't attracted to, would you?

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Wow. Please don't put words in my mouth. Nowhere, have I ever mentioned you're into looking for supermodels. Where on earth do you come up with that?

 

Also, I am not making judgments on you. I comment on only the information YOU have provided in your many threads/posts. I did not make anything up just for the hell of it.

 

I guess they way you expressed yourself was rather confusing and I misread/misunderstood what you meant. When I read, "I want an attractive woman", to me it means someone good looking. Sorry, I obviously got it wrong.

 

~steps out of thread~

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When I read, "I want an attractive woman", to me it means someone good looking. Sorry, I obviously got it wrong.

 

What I don't understand is, how is someone average looking not good looking?

 

To me, I like average to above average looking girls. If there was someone who was a bit overweight, but we connected, I wouldn't discount her directly on that. You have me all wrong.

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I don't really agree with this. I would advise 99.9% of guys to look to other guys on how to successfully approach/speak with women. Women do not know what women want. A random woman knows only what she wants, and even then that is not static. I've had conversations with many women about what they want, and when they conceptualize it they all tend to describe similar personality traits, but then when it comes down to the types of guys they interact with, date, and/or have sex with -- well, you don't necessarily see consistency. Every guy who creates a thread asking what women prefer is already in the wrong frame of mind. You are what you are -- you can't change that, you can only enhance its visibility, so when guys ask what personalities, styles, height, etc. etc. women prefer they are only limiting themselves. Lamenting the fact that you don't fit into any of the preferred characteristics isn't productive.

 

Not to mention that most women simply can not relate to the struggling, virginal guy. Women do not leer at us like predators or hurl any sort of physical validation our way. Few (not NONE) understand what it feels like to not be sexually viable.

 

LBS, trust me when I say you'd be far better off letting Strawberry Yogurt or myself watch you interact with women for 30 minutes than approaching women for lists of traits they like. I just think the time for speculation is over. If you stand on the precipice of a cliff and your goal is to jump, being overly analytical will just make the jump seem that much higher. Everyone would find it nice for an attractive member of their desired sex to make the first move and validate them. The fact of the matter is that the women you so badly want (the so called attractive ones) DO NOT NEED TO DO THIS. To be bluntly real with you, guys without your problems will approach them, so you're essentially asking them to trade those guys in for you and you require them to show more initial vulnerability and work. In most cases this won't happen.

 

Toss aside any preconceived notions you have about this stuff and read PUA articles if you have to. You have nothing to lose and I wouldn't scoff at any of it until perusing it. In my case, it was a confidence issue. I'm very quick on my feet and I have no problem retaliating to an insult with a cleverer one and I know how to disarm people, etc. etc. Knowing what to say wasn't my problem. But if you want to know what kind of conversations are best for what you want, you can find that in those types of articles. Maybe that knowledge would be the little comfort you could drag with you to these types of situations. Once you're desensitized to the interaction, you can ditch the material for good. Let it be your training wheels until you decide you can ride without them. I just feel like if people are going to suggest you have some sort of speech therapy or find a female therapist, you'd might as well go a step further and read the psychology behind attraction (and it's not as simplistic as you have narrowed it down to me, nor what I used to narrow it down to be). I am still surprised that people scoff at that sort of suggestion. You are an average guy struggling with women. Why not learn from average guys who struggleD with women and now don't?

 

It's good that you're self aware. But your self-awareness comes with a ball and chain that you drag into these situations, and instead of taking it off yourself you want someone to pick you up and carry you. The world isn't kind enough for that. You're a smart guy, but in your thinking you never arrive at a place that prompts action. Drop the hypotheticals for a while and go out and DO. If/when you fall on your face come back and tell us how it happened and maybe that'll be two steps forward in a few posts instead of one forward and two back in 20+ pages.

 

P.S.

 

I am ridiculously aware of the irony that my SN is attached to THAT post.

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My fault? How is it my fault that I don't know how to date?

 

That's like saying it's your fault that you were born with a certain hair color.

 

Not exactly. Hair color is genetic. You may not be responsible for the things in the past that have shaped your personality and formed your neuroses, but for some time now you've been responsible for taking action to learn how to overcome your issues. If you haven't done that yet, then it is your "fault", for lack of a better word, that the circumstances are what they are.

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For the record, I never said it was women's fault. I just said their advice hasn't helped.

 

On second thought, attack not needed. Danger, Will Robinson!

 

What I meant was that women's advices are probably not bad, you perhaps are in fault for not really putting those advices into practice. I myself have given you advices that I'm 100% sure will make you more successful with women. The most important one be working on your looks and getting in a great shape. Women have told you to be confident, be an achiever and try to look better. How in earth any of those are bad advices?!

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Not exactly. Hair color is genetic. You may not be responsible for the things in the past that have shaped your personality and formed your neuroses, but for some time now you've been responsible for taking action to learn how to overcome your issues. If you haven't done that yet, then it is your "fault", for lack of a better word, that the circumstances are what they are.

 

Fair enough, and that is why I am going to make changes. I've already addressed that several times in this thread.

 

What I meant was that women's advices are probably not bad, you perhaps are in fault for not really putting those advices into practice. I myself have given you advices that I'm 100% sure will make you more successful with women. The most important one be working on your looks and getting in a great shape. Women have told you to be confident, be an achiever and try to look better. How in earth any of those are bad advices?!

 

Well, confidence doesn't just come to you...you get that through experience. Being an achiever...that's great advice, and I'm going to take it to heart. Also, looking better...I put my BMI in my siggy, because I plan to lose weight, and I will change that every day (just getting ready to check the scale and see how it's dropped or gained right now!) So it's not like I'm ignoring the advice here.

 

I was given a compliment by a 60 year old woman the other day, that I was 'incredibly attractive for my age.' I don't think it's looks that are the problem, it's confidence and social anxiety, which is all tied together in a big horrible mess. I need to break out of that, because even if I looked like Brad Pitt, the way I've acted around girls would lead me to not have success with them.

 

When I said girls go for looks, no, personality, no, looks...I think it's both of them. They want someone they're attracted to, but they also want someone they connect with and who is a skilled speaker and confident. Shyness isn't attractive, simply for that reason; you can't be confident AND shy. I need to get over my shyness, and realize the world isn't going to end if I talk to a pretty girl. My world just might be beginning.

 

(And before someone says, "Oh he's shallow", I'm talking about pretty TO ME. I don't know how much more obvious I have to make that, before someone understands.)

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Loneliness is a disease. I know because I've felt it. And can I tell you that looks don't make a difference. I've been told I'm attractive all my life, but I know how it feels to crave human touch because you've gone so long without it. And yes, it can make you very bitter. I don't have a pill you can take to make things better, but it will improve. You'll get your day in the sun. People meet people all the time and they come in all shapes and sizes and types. The thing to focus on is building the love in your heart, for yourself and other people. Become a magnet of love. That's the only way. If it helps, I'm on this journey for myself too. Be kind to yourself. Be open. Your inexperience can actually be a great thing and I know some lucky woman is going to be happy that she is your first. But the key is to not give yourself an impossibly hard time. Every time you hear the hater start talking, talk back and use nice thoughts and good words to describe yourself.

 

Oh - and don't listen to the haters, and the nasty people. They are unhappy themselves and are simply projecting their misery onto you. Give it back to them, where it belongs. Stand tall and proud. And be the love you want to see in your life.

 

(Hey me... look at this good advice you just wrote. You should take it up yourself. Yeh... thanks me. Think I'll do just that... )

 

Well, confidence doesn't just come to you...you get that through experience. Being an achiever...that's great advice, and I'm going to take it to heart. Also, looking better...I put my BMI in my siggy, because I plan to lose weight, and I will change that every day (just getting ready to check the scale and see how it's dropped or gained right now!) So it's not like I'm ignoring the advice here.

 

Can I just say - as a woman - that yes looks do play their part, BUT a good looking man with zero personality and love in his heart will always lose out to an average looking guy with a big heart. And I think that's true of most women. If the only thing you work on is your appearance, then yeh - you'll attract a certain type of woman. But you've got to also ask yourself what you want from a relationship. That's my two-cents worth anyway. Superficial things will fade - the deeper things will only grow better with time.

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Can I just say - as a woman - that yes looks do play their part, BUT a good looking man with zero personality and love in his heart will always lose out to an average looking guy with a big heart. And I think that's true of most women. If the only thing you work on is your appearance, then yeh - you'll attract a certain type of woman. But you've got to also ask yourself what you want from a relationship. That's my two-cents worth anyway. Superficial things will fade - the deeper things will only grow better with time.

 

This is totally true. I think it's great that you're working on your appearance, especially since you think it will help you build confidence, but you need to remember that working on emotional issues is really what's going to help you most. You seem like a smart and kind guy, but in your threads you can come accross as a bit bitter and overwhelmed with women. I can't say that I blame you, given your history with dating, but that's the first thing that you need to work on. No one - Brad Pitt or the ugliest guy on the planet or someone totally average - is going to attract people (not even romantically, just generally) when their personality is clouded by bitterness.

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Fair enough, and that is why I am going to make changes. I've already addressed that several times in this thread.

 

It's funny that after 25 pages of your thread, I don't know what changes you're going to make -- and most importantly, how you intend on making them.

 

You need a hardcore gameplan and I don't see that anywhere in your thread. I see you've said you're working on your BMI. Sweet. And WHAT ELSE? That's only a fraction of the puzzle.

 

1. What CONCRETE actions will you take after this thread has cooled in the next week?

 

2. You have concluded many a thread saying you'd make changes, and the changes discussed on the thread were to get out there and make more social contact, but here we are rehashing that goal. What makes NOW different from before? What will you do, think, act upon, or otherwise conjure up within yourself that separates this thread from previous ones so as to ensure the next thread isn't an exact replica?

 

As for where you put your chronicling of your progress with women, health, social interactions, etc., I do not suggest a thread in any forum except JOURNALS. Because that's where you log your progress best on this site. Interested posters who have followed your threads will migrate there to see how you're doing in your CONCRETE actions towards your goals and what sort of "changes" you're making. And people who just like the Journal forum will read it.

 

I have more to say than this, but it's going to happen when I have a bit more time, because it promises to be another long post, and the last one like it from me on this thread.

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