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DN,

 

It's really good to hear from you. Will you be posting on ena again? I hope so.

 

I do ultimately agree that it will be good for OG to accept and move on and to let go of anger, however, I still think she needs to contact immigration. That's not out of revenge. He came here on condition of being with her. Immigration needs to know that it's no longer the case. She needs to protect herself legally by letting them know because since they are not together, anything he may do that is wrong it could come back to bite her if the government still thinks they are together.

 

My calling L a small man, I still think he is. You're right, you can't force feelings. And ultimately, I don't think L should stay with her if the love is gone. I don't think OG would want that either. But as a spouse, he owed it to her to try and fix it. It was so early on. If it didn't work, then divorce, okay. But she was left so quickly and he gave up so quickly and didn't even try to fix it with her. That's why I think he's a small man.

 

 

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Thank you for the post DN.

 

I can understand falling out of love with someone, I can understand how it's easy to let those embers die out. All the reasons he listed as to why were fixable though and yes, I can see were those reasons made him fall out of love. Was there romance in the marriage? No. Did we talk about work a lot, he and I both? Yes. But those are fixable with effort- you can do things to bring the romance back, talk less about work. What I can't get past is the fact there was no effort on his part. I've talked about it so much with my uncle who has admitted there were times in his 12 year marriage he would come home and just want to pack his bags, that those embers weren't there anymore. But he tried and they were able to reignite them. If he had just tried and in a few months still felt the same way I could walk away a lot easier. He would have tried and if those feelings weren't able to come back I couldn't have faulted him for that. I'd still be sad that it was over but nothing near the sad I am now because he didn't even try and I do fault him for not trying. And to me that is were he became a coward and like his father.

 

As my aunt says, he made a unilateral decision on a subject - our marriage - that was not unilateral. Two of us chose to go into this marriage, two of us should have chosen to end it. Maybe that's a romantic way of looking at it but I deserved the respect of him at least trying, of having a say of 'okay, the things we are doing aren't bringing it back. Let's end it on good terms.' He didn't promise to love me forever when we said our vows but he did promise to communicate with me and he didn't.

 

At the end of the day, it's his choice not to fight that he will have to live with. Not to toot my own horn but I am a damn good woman. I give everything I have to the people I love and it's his decision to walk away from that. It's because he didn't try is the reason he is being vilified. My aunt and uncle, who have watched me sturggle with this so much over the past 3 weeks, who have held me while I sobbed into their arms on the bathroom floor have still said, even today, they would respect him more if he would have just tried or chose to try. My two best friends have said the same thing.

 

I won't simply let him walk over me but no, I won't get vindictive. It's not who I am. I will protect myself legally but my goal is to not make his life harder, despite how much pain he has caused me.

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Hi OG,

 

I still believe that one can't talk oneself into and out of love, or fight to keep that emotion. It's either there or it isn't on his part but I won't belabour the point, I do understand why you are very angry. In any event, as I said, you need to concentrate on you, not on him and whatever his emotions are.

 

but I am a damn good woman. I give everything I have to the people I love
That is exactly the attitude you should carry forward.

 

Thanks Fudgie, but no, I won't be posting any more. I just felt so sorry for OG, whom I really like, and felt she needed a different perspective than she was getting on here. Insults and vindictiveness towards L are not helpful, just somewhat immature, and tend to give him the moral high-ground. I was pretty sure OG was not like that, but it can be hard to resist a 'Chorus of Disapproval' when there is nothing to mitigate it.

 

Take care OG, I shall drop in now and again to see how you prosper, as I am sure you will. There will be dark times but they will get less and less, until they are completely gone.

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I like OG's stance on this - that she should protect her best interests legally (and otherwise of course) but not resort to being vindictive. I think it would be unwise for her to proceed without an attorney reviewing her paperwork which she has said she will do. I do think in other situations perhaps the couple could resolve these issues without legal counsel but in this situation I think there is enough questions about L's actions/inactions that it's wise to get that kind of professional opinion.

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I don't think anyone is suggesting that OG should be vindictive, but she does need to stand up for herself. OG herself has admitted to being a pushover and he clearly knows her weaker sides and quite possibly will use them to his advantage. This isn't anything new when couples decide to split up.

 

In the end whatever she decides will be her choice, because she is the one that has to deal with the consequences. In my opinion she very clearly still cares and loves him and that is why she is having a hard time even being angry. It is quite possible that later on she will regret not doing x, y , z. That is why we are all suggesting she seek legal advice and speak with INS. OG needs to protect herself legally. Especially when it comes to divorcing a foreigner she needs to speak with a lawyer in her state and explain every little detail regardless how little or unimportant it might seem. (Having him kicked out would just be a bonus)

 

This isn't just your regular run of the mill American couple. I've never cared much for him, and OG and I have butted heads a few times, but regardless who the poster is given this much information I'd tell them the same things I have said to OG. I also feel extremely sad and upset for OG, because she has built a good life for herself from living in a small room with her family and working as a cleaning lady to living in her own place and working as admin. Heck she hasd health insurance. It saddens me that she has lost that. That loss was directly caused by him.

 

I don't care to bully him and haven't, but his attitude and the way he has handled this whole situation is extremely callous. It is hard to believe that someone that went to such great lengths to be with OG would give up so soon.

My parents have been married well over 30 years, and have and their share of ups and downs, it wasn't always romantic, careers, kids, problems get in the way of romance. But people try to make it work.

 

If he was just your regular average American that fell out of love with his wife, it wouldn't really make you think twice. It does happen. But after long distance, visas, and all the other stuff they have had to do in order to have him come to the US to live and build a life together which until yesterday he WANTED. Then to just pull the plug and say it's over? Without ever discussing anything? Or even saying 'look sweetie, I'm not happy, this is why, perhaps we can see a counselor, pastor, whomever'. He just sat quietly and one day told her it was over.

 

And that is why it makes people think twice about his actions. That is why nothing is off the table. The person she knew and believed him to be is no longer there. That's why she needs to look after herself first and do whatever she has to in order to make her own life easier. If that means him going back to whatever ever the heck he came from, so be it. Everything he has is in the US is thanks to OG.

 

Did he love her? Was he honest about loving her? Only he knows. Did he move the the US for her? Again only he truly knows.

The person she believed him to be is clearly not one to be trusted, and that's why she needs to protect herself. If he can just pull the plug on their marriage so easily it just makes you think about his motives.

 

I don't know if he married her because he truly deeply loved her or because he had a deep desire to live in the US. But given what has happened in the past and how quickly he had divorce papers drafted it just makes you question his motives. And that's being realistic and not sugar coating it.

 

Of course OG needs to concentrate on healing and she will be better off once she gets past this horrible mess, but she also needs to look after herself. Legally an otherwise. He isn't her friend anymore and she can't trust anything he says because if he could pretend things were fine to his wife, what's to say he wouldn't pretend now? Even during their New York trip he was reassuring her that her back (I think back?) issues weren't making the trip useless. That's it's fine, that it's all good. And just two short months ago he told her he loved her more and more. I'm sorry but how does someone fall out of love that quickly? Seriously, I'm sure most heartbroken people would love to know this secret.

 

Most people don't have divorce papers drafted immediately after saying it is over.

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I've been lurking here somewhat, feeling a bit disturbed at the business about getting L deported. I'm really glad DN came on to say what he said.

 

He made good points about how convoluted it would have been to arrange for you to go live in the UK if his real intent was a US citizenship. I think it's possible he may have his eye on someone else, but that's a matter of conjecture, and even if it's true, I don't think it was calculated that way. I believe he at least BELIEVED he loved you -- and as I said before, in that, I think he did not really understand his limitations, his abilities, or perhaps his own heart. It's possible, OG, that he loved the idea of this kind of love more than he actually loved the reality/person/life itself -- and he came to realize this. It is possible he came to realize that he was high on some ideas -- not on a person. And in that case, no amount of "trying to fix it" would have worked. How do you fix what was never made? I'm not presuming to guess what was really in his heart -- and if it's true that he loved you, and wasn't just infatuated, every effort should have been made to bring the romance back. But if it was just romance, with little deep-seated love, that could not have sustained the marriage. Romance can only re-ignite what is already created and existent. So I think the question is -- and I don't know if anyone, even L will get an answer to this -- what was this built on? Was it really love? Or the love of love, which romance thrives on, and then naturally expires?

 

I do believe that he should have come to you sooner, and talked about it. I think he should have given it a shot, trying to improve in the areas where it was problematic to him. He did let it go too easily. The fact is, he made a pledge to you, and a very serious one, so that required of him a level of effort that he failed to put in. But then on the other hand, if he had a realization that it wasn't just "the romance is missing" but rather, "the love is missing"...that's something that might have felt pointless working on, just to say you're working on, you know?

 

I'm just trying to imagine if this happened to me -- something I know I can't approximate in my head, just imagining. But I'm asking myself if my partner communicated to me that he no longer felt connected to me, and that he was having serious misgivings about whether he even loved me (if we're talking about unsparing, brute honesty, which you'd have wanted)...would I want us to do things to see if he could "try" to "love me again"? I might find that torture, emotionally. To think I'm with someone who is now TRYING to FEEL HE LOVES ME AGAIN. How horrible that would make me feel each day that I woke up to him. Wondering if he's feeling it now, again? Or now? Or now? And I'd be continually trying to make him feel happy, maybe to my own detriment, just because I was scared his feelings wouldn't return. So that would have been a kind of hell to live through that it's easy to say now would have been better -- but would it really have been? Or would it have been you feeling alone, lonely, and rejected, trying to win back his love every single day? It's degrading and demoralizing to think about. I think that might have been even worse for your self-esteem and feeling lovable than this, if that's even conceivable. Because you would have been TRYING TO WIN HIM BACK. And especially if it had not worked? He had put in some compulsory time doing it and said, "Welp, nope, still not feeling it" -- no, I don't think you would have felt, "well, at least we tried, now it's a mutual break." I think it would have made you feel the same way you feel now about his change of heart and lack of staying power, only like you had had to become a beggar.

 

And though I absolutely do not condone his being "vicious" -- I also think that if you threatened to obstruct the divorce, and you admit yourself that wasn't a stellar moment -- maybe vilifying him over that could be tempered.

 

I still think his biggest mistake was his inability to know himself, his immaturity, and his lacking any kind of foresight. Secondarily, he did not communicate with you as he should have. But it's like blaming a blind man for a lack of sight -- in the end, he was incapable, and that's probably the best adjective to describe him. I only briefly interacted with him on here, and he struck me as someone with his heart in the right place, but a lot of foolishness, impulsivity, and growing to do, who was probably a little too sure of himself.

 

I strongly agree that in terms of the legal matters, you should only do what is necessary to protect yourself now and in the future, but no more; that you should not try to get him deported, or hurt him. His own life will exact whatever it needs, and you will feel better about yourself and the love you had for him if you don't stoop to blows. I don't think just because you have a track record trying to please people that leaving on the high road is you being a doormat.

 

Leaving on the high road is ending as you came -- with love. Someday, that will be the only closure you will need.

 

In the meantime, I advocate letting yourself feel angry, as angry as you need to feel, as it's part of the grieving process, and it's healthy. It will naturally ebb when it ebbs, just as the tears do.

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By the way, for some reason I read a feeling of guilt into him saying he was coming to "love you more and more every day" soon before ending it. I think he was trying very hard to convince himself of something, or to chase away the thoughts/feelings he wasn't proud of (whether it was feeling something for someone else, or just feeling a lack with you). That is my read on that, for what it's worth.

 

In either case, OG, I want to say again that you ARE a great catch, and I hope you keep reminding yourself that this is just one man.

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If I were getting divorced, I would personally want the same things I had as when I got in the marriage. You had your own home and a job at the hospital, personally, I would want those things back.

 

As far as being "vindictive" and kicking him out of the country, to be honest, we can't say that OG is the one kicking him out of the country or letting him stay. Ultimately, that's up to the government agency who makes those decisions. I just think OG's role here is to tell the truth about what happened, the circumstances that led up to the separation/divorce, and then the INS agents will decide what to do with that information.

 

Also, you don't have to accept the terms of the divorce, as is. You can decide what you want that will make this seem fairer to you. Not like L has millions stashed anywhere, but you did just uproot your life. Actions have consequences. He chose to pull the plug, so he has to deal with the fall out. Again, for me, this isn't about being vindictive, but hey - marriage is a legal contract, you can't cancel a contract and expect to move on like it never happened. Just ask anyone who's tried to get out of a cable TV contract.

 

What type of law does the friend of the family practice? If he/she doesn't specialize in divorce, I'd see if they can refer you to someone who does, especially if they can charge you on a sliding scale.

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While I agree with DN, that being angry and vindictive isn't the way to go, I do think that sometimes being angry is what really help us to move on. I don't mean the type of anger that makes you want to hurt them and bring them down. What's needed is the type of anger that makes you never want to think about them again and move on because you know that you deserve better than that.

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I went and sat in my room, hugged my babies, and had a nice, long cry. God I needed that cry. I wonder if they know what is going on, if they even realise L isn't around anymore. Shadowfax clings to me in a way she never has before.

 

My aunt hosted a baby shower today. The baby shower part I was fine during - even if it was elephant themed - but afterward, when we were all sat around talking.... God. A few of the girls were telling stories about their wedding and all I could do was sit there. I had this beautiful wedding and it hurts to even think about it. I ended up having to excuse myself to sit on the back porch for a while by myself.

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Honestly OG if I was in your shoes, I don’t know that I could have been a part of that baby shower at all, so hats off to you. Great things are coming your way.

 

Can I ask, what’s the deal with the elephants?

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^

I was just thinking of you and the big pig thing.

 

I think for me it would be kitties. We can’t go anywhere without Alex stopping and "meeting" cats. It’s adorable.

I have no chance of ever seeing a pigwhalemuffinbutt, so I think I’m safe...

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I'm also not saying the visa was the case, but I don't care how convoluted the story might be. There are a lot of crazy people in the world doing messed up things. Heck, how many con artists and criminals in this world do much more than marrying someone for a visa? Just saying... Unfortunately, we live in a world with a lot of messed up people.

 

I just had a weird epiphany back when OG got married. I remember reading about L's problems flying to the US for the wedding and his excuses did not sit well with me. I felt like something was wrong there.

 

Anyways, I'm not saying L is a bad person. Or that he wasn't in love with OG. All I'm saying is that people are capable of doing much worst than what we are implying here. It happens every day.

 

The world is a playground for sociopaths and psychopaths. And the kindest people are generally the ones who fall prey to them.

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Well, it speaks volumes of his character if he can handle everything the way he has. And you're right justagirl, that missed flight was extremely weird. As someone that travels quite often internationally and whose husband travels a lot, if you try hard enough chances are you will get bumped up to the next flight and heck I've been known to miss flights and be bumped to the first available flight free of charge. My husband has never had to pay to be bumped to the next flight available or my brothers.. It happens all the time! No one is saying he married her for the green card, but I'd be lying if that's not what I'm thinking now after how he just all of a sudden fell out of love. They were on vacation just before he dropped the bomb. the thing is if he cared he would have just told her things weren't right or his feelings were changing. It all does SEEM very calculated. I realize some people might think that's just not right, but lets be realistic it isn't an everyday couple that meet at the coffee shop and get married. Once you start putting two and two together whether you like it to be three it simply isn't three. No one is saying he should have stayed married to someone he doesn't love, that's silly, but why wait until that happens? Also, I don't know how one just stops loving their partner. It doesn't happen overnight. It just doesn't.

 

It's just very, very unfair that OG basically moved out of town, had to leave her job and home after giving SO MUCH of herself to that relationship.

 

You know, I'd probably think differently if he said "look babe, I am sorry this isn't working out, my feelings have changed, it isn't your fault. I want to make this easier on you because you've sacrificed so much - therefore I will pack my bags and get on the next flight back home". If not that then at least to be generous enough and say he will leave that job and town and everything that he fund in the apartment. Instead OG left, lost her health insurance which she needs due to her health issues (AND HE KNOWS THIS!) lost a good job and her home. Sorry but that's just so much BS right there. And to think he suggested they be roommates until the lease runs out. Come the F on!

 

Beating dead horse and all, sorry it just frustrates me that OG is now supposed to just take whatever is being thrown her way without protecting herself in every way possible and getting what she is entitled to due to her hard work.

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I know it's just how I feel right now, but I just want to throw the biggest wall around my heart and never let anyone else in.

 

Big hugs sweetheart. This is hard. I like F's idea. I think you will be in a better place a year from now and having a party for your loved ones sounds like a good idea. I am thinking of you and admire how strong you are.

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I think what OG needs now isn’t hypothesizing, or attacking L, but just support... plain and simple. Her journal is supposed to be a safe place to come and seeing some of these posts, I’m thinking that it’s adding salt to the wound and they may make it harder to heal. I’m sure we all have our own theories, but this isn’t a romance novel with a twist ending, this is OG’s life. OG if you disagree, I apologize.

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I wanted to add - wow that you went to the baby shower. I kind of wish the conversation topic would have have been different just to be supportive of you but I get it. Put up that wall and hug your babies -whatever works right now is what is right!

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