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Giving ultimatums


newwave

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I gave an ultimatum to the guy I want. Basically I told him this:

 

1) I want a relationship with him. I do not want to be his "friend", his counselor or his mother. If he can't give me a full relationship I want nothing at all. I have friends, I don't need a friendship with a guy I am interested in, who's interested in me but "afraid of falling in love".

 

2) That in said relationship once we get to the sexual part he must perform a certain sex act. He thinks it's gross but if he cares he'd get over his issues. Neither one of us wants sex yet anyway so maybe this one will develop in time. In the past he said he "might" reconsider.

 

More musts to come, but these are for starters. I am tired of dealing with him. Yes he's getting better, so maybe there is hope. Sadly, while I probably could do better, I know at 39 finding a never married no kid guy is hard.

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I'm just tired of him acting this way. He knows he can't find anyone else (friend or otherwise) because no one else wants him. Why would they? he's not cute, he doesn't make good money (makes less than $30,000), nor has any other redeeming qualities except he was a nice guy. He's not even treating me like he should. Sadly, there aren't many never married 40something guys without kids which is the only reason this went on this long.

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I'm just tired of him acting this way. He knows he can't find anyone else (friend or otherwise) because no one else wants him. Why would they? he's not cute, he doesn't make good money (makes less than $30,000), nor has any other redeeming qualities except he was a nice guy. He's not even treating me like he should. Sadly, there aren't many never married 40something guys without kids which is the only reason this went on this long.

 

If you don't even like or respect him... why? lol, I don't know how else to say it.. Why???

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1) I want a relationship with him. I do not want to be his "friend", his counselor or his mother. If he can't give me a full relationship I want nothing at all. I have friends, I don't need a friendship with a guy I am interested in, who's interested in me but "afraid of falling in love".

 

Ultimatums are never fair, nor do they end well. If you feel this way, I think it's probably best to just move on and end your friendship with him, without trying to push him into a relationship before you do so.

 

As for the second part, I don't see what you can get out of coercing someone into performing a sex act that they think is gross, this has nothing to do with him not caring enough about you...

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Because I did like him. Because he was a nice guy. Now I'm not so sure. I know he's going to counseling because he hates how he was to me. If he goes back to the guy I know he was (and who still is most of the time) then yes I will back down. Otherwise, I am done.

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Because I did like him. Because he was a nice guy. Now I'm not so sure. I know he's going to counseling because he hates how he was to me. If he goes back to the guy I know he was (and who still is most of the time) then yes I will back down. Otherwise, I am done.

 

If someone I dated said the following about me (and I found out about it):

 

He knows he can't find anyone else (friend or otherwise) because no one else wants him. Why would they? he's not cute, he doesn't make good money (makes less than $30,000), nor has any other redeeming qualities except he was a nice guy.

 

...I don't care if you're James Dean reincarnated, I wouldn't stay with you one nanosecond longer. You can't extract what you want from someone. That's not a partnership.

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Ultimatums are never fair, nor do they end well. If you feel this way, I think it's probably best to just move on and end your friendship with him, without trying to push him into a relationship before you do so.

 

As for the second part, I don't see what you can get out of coercing someone into performing a sex act that they think is gross, this has nothing to do with him not caring enough about you...

 

The first one, because I don't want to just be his friend. Not fair to me. I am 39 and deserve to have a partner in life. For months we've been in a limbo where he wanted a relationship, then a friendship, now a relationship (I think) but still scared). The second part because if he cared enough about me, he'd do something for me.

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Is this the same guy you told us doesn't want to be in a relationship with you? Please leave him alone because you have no respect for him. he doesn't treat you like you want because you have no respect for him and despise him. Yes, he CAN find someone else. Even if he is not attractive to you, there will be a woman who is attracted to him. His body type might be sexy to her, or his smile, eyes or kind ways. When you are in love with someone, you begin to see the bump in their nose or their crooked smile adorable. There are women out there who make less than him who won't care if he makes $30K and there are women who make more than him who will see that he is no slouch - that he works hard and that's just the job he happens to have. And there is such things as appreciating the simple things in life.

 

You cannot order people around and expect to get results.

 

It is very reasonable to tell a man that you don't want to play games and you cannot be "just friends", but it has to be heartfelt, not an order. And then you MUST accept his answer whether it is yes or no. He already told you no and now you want to mow him down until he wants you. The reason why he doesn't want you is not your attractiveness, but your attitude.

 

Also, it is unreasonable to tell anyone that they must perform a sex act. If a man said to a woman "you must let me have sex with you in public" or you "must let my friend watch" or "you must let me have anal sex with you" everyone would tell the guy to buzz off. Also, if you already know he does not like oral sex, at best he might try to humor you for a bit, but he will stop doing it.

 

You know what? I like oral sex a lot too. Does my boyfriend do it a lot? No. And you know what? I don't care! I have a bottle of lube and an imagination and I can play with myself. They even have stuff in sex catalogs that feel like a tongue if you really want. But what I can't live without is a man who is honest and caring and is crazy about me. And I am willing to go the rest of my life without oral sex if I have it. It is an awesome trade off. Sex with a real connection to someone and just seeing where it goes when the clothes start to come off is amazing. special sex is just not a bunch of parts that can be broken down into separate acts.

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If someone I dated said the following about me (and I found out about it):

 

He knows he can't find anyone else (friend or otherwise) because no one else wants him. Why would they? he's not cute, he doesn't make good money (makes less than $30,000), nor has any other redeeming qualities except he was a nice guy.

 

...I don't care if you're James Dean reincarnated, I wouldn't stay with you one nanosecond longer. You can't extract what you want from someone. That's not a partnership.

 

So if he doesn't come to his senses I can say I could do better. In my wish I'd love a good looking guy who makes good money. However, adding that to my wishlist of never married, no kid 40's, then it really makes it impossible. So since those parts don't matter as much as the never married, no kid rules I overlook. To other women (he has had many issues with women) he's worthless, he's even told me this himself.

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So you say his only redeeming quality is that he's a nice guy, but go on to list all the other ways he falls short and without you liking him, he'd be up S creek, since you're the only one who would like him?

 

I guess that WOULD give you the upper hand to issue an ultimatum. After all, this is his only chance for someone to want him. So he better snatch that right up.

 

If he buckled to that, he'd be finished, to tell you the truth.

 

This is the start of a very toxic dynamic, if all the IFs you want fall into place.

 

And just on a personal note -- ultimatums are to me are the cue to deep-six whatever else might have been salvaged. Nothing EVER good comes out of coercion, on principle.

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Because I did like him. Because he was a nice guy. Now I'm not so sure. I know he's going to counseling because he hates how he was to me. If he goes back to the guy I know he was (and who still is most of the time) then yes I will back down. Otherwise, I am done.

 

You DID like him. But not now. People change. He is not the man you have been carrying a torch for for the past decade. And you've changed too. everyone does. Also, counseling is about the person going to counseling. he is there to deal with his feelings. He is not there to fix himself so you'll want to be with him.

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So if he doesn't come to his senses I can say I could do better. In my wish I'd love a good looking guy who makes good money. However, adding that to my wishlist of never married, no kid 40's, then it really makes it impossible. So since those parts don't matter as much as the never married, no kid rules I overlook. To other women (he has had many issues with women) he's worthless, he's even told me this himself.

 

I honestly don't know what's worse. Your Eeyore-esque self-pity about relationships, or the fact that you're willing to use his lack of self-esteem against him in an attempt to extract from him what you want while ridiculing and disrespecting the man behind his back.

 

And you say you deserve a relationship? Not from where I'm standing, lady.

 

If he has any sense, he'll just walk when you deliver this ultimatum.

 

Best of luck.

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The first time anyone gives me an ultimatum is the last time anyone gives me an ultimatum. You cannot affect change positively this way. If it comes to this, it's just done, I'm sorry.

 

Absolutley. I'll never take ultimatums from someone else again.

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Btw, I'd never say mean things about his looks or his job to him. I'm not that mean. Yes, he is going to counseling and yes it's because of me. He doesn't want to lose me. Now he says he wants a relationship with me, but sure has a funny way of showing it. I am not going to sit around for years in the hope he MIGHT come around. I am 39 and my choices get limited every year.

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That is not really an ultimatium, you are giving him a choice. Ulimatiums usually have a negative consquence.

 

I think you are doing the right thing, you are showing self respect and diginity. You go girl!

 

I take it you didn't read the rest of the thread. I encourage you to do so as I don't think you'll have the same opinion.

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Btw, I'd never say mean things about his looks or his job to him. I'm not that mean. Yes, he is going to counseling and yes it's because of me. He doesn't want to lose me. Now he says he wants a relationship with me, but sure has a funny way of showing it. I am not going to sit around for years in the hope he MIGHT come around. I am 39 and my choices get limited every year.

 

No, you just think them. Is that what you'd want? Someone to think "Wow, well, I'm not getting any younger and she's kinda fat and boring, but hey, she's here. Might as well make the best of it."

 

I mean... WHAT?!

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The first one, because I don't want to just be his friend. Not fair to me. I am 39 and deserve to have a partner in life. For months we've been in a limbo where he wanted a relationship, then a friendship, now a relationship (I think) but still scared). The second part because if he cared enough about me, he'd do something for me.

 

Partners don't order each other around. If you want a partner, find someone who isn't so wishy-washy about wanting a relationship with you, who you don't need to push into a relationship.

 

I completely disagree with you on the second part, and I don't see how you can possibly enjoy it knowing that you're forcing him into doing something he hates. That would take all the fun out of it for me, but then I would never try to coerce my boyfriend into doing anything that he thinks is gross.

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I honestly don't know what's worse. Your Eeyore-esque self-pity about relationships, or the fact that you're willing to use his lack of self-esteem against him in an attempt to extract from him what you want while ridiculing and disrespecting the man behind his back.

 

And you say you deserve a relationship? Not from where I'm standing, lady.

 

If he has any sense, he'll just walk when you deliver this ultimatum.

 

Best of luck.

 

Agreed 100%. Goodness gracious.

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Just a tip, when you talk about someone behind their back it DOES do damage. My ex used to complain about me to his coworkers and family. So family who didn't know me formed a false opinion and his sisters were encouraged to treat me like trash because my ex thought so little of me. It also was tough being nice to them only to find out they would whisper behind my back. When I went into the office (i worked there part time to help him - we were married) i also got funny looks.

 

btw, what about just giving him his space to heal? It will show you respect him. You can give him an ultimatum, but just be prepared that if he says "no" to let him be. He has said no before and you didn't seem to.

 

I take it you didn't read the rest of the thread. I encourage you to do so as I don't think you'll have the same opinion.

 

And all the threads. newwave has been talking about the same guy on multiple threads for a long time now. I hope she finds some peace in this situation.

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I am 39 and my choices get limited every year.

 

I have 3 years on you, and I'm not the least bit interested in dating someone who I would describe in the manner you've described him, with such contempt and disrespect. To his face, behind his back, not no-how would I ever talk about the man I want to be with like that. Slim as the pickins' are.

 

And I don't know why "never married" is so important to you. You're cutting out a lot of potentially good partners there. Some people are going for a step up when then get divorced. And some people who have never been married haven't been for a good reason.

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