Love is...???

[guest2345]

My ex was hurt by another woman in his past which seemed to have closed him off to love in a sense. I thought we had it and he did feel deeply for me for a moment but recently we parted ways.

 

I spoke with him just the other day and he told me that he believes in love but he was looking for a undeniable, unquestioned feeling when it came to love.

 

But in the next sentence he says that he lost my sense of the romantic and trust in love for a while and now he's open to it. I guess not with me. I'm okay with that, I want someone who wants me.

 

Still... do you think when people say that they are looking for a unquestioned, undeniable feeling in regards to love that it's unattainable? It's like a fairytail of what love is or should be? Just in talking to him it felt as if he was saying that this is what he was looking for in a partner. It got me thinking. Is this everyone's view? Is it as simple as that? I figure everyone has questions about is he/she the right one @ certain moments in our relationship. He seemed okay that I was it until I questioned him and pushed for commitment. Then he wasn't so sure.

 

I'm just wondering your views on it.

 

This is the man who got the GIGS when he was with me. He used the old ILYBNILWY line. I figure it was because he got caught and wanted to explore his options. He contacted me recently and we've spoken but there's nothing between us anymore.

[uhohlala]

I think that love can take different forms, and that people's experiences vary. The all-consuming, no-doubts-about-it kind of love does happen, but I think is more likely to occur among the young/inexperienced. And it's no guarantee of longevity.

 

People who are actively seeking that kind of experience are, in my opinion, looking for a way to absolve themselves of responsibility for building a relationship with another person. Chemistry is essential and it can't be fabricated, but a loving, caring, lasting relationship needs more than just chemistry and romance -- it needs both partners' conscious efforts. Love and a partnership built on love require compromises and sacrifices at times -- small, petty sacrifices, not huge gestures like donating a kidney. You'll be annoyed at times, frustrated at times, angry at times. Some people interpret their annoyance, etc. as evidence that they really aren't "in love" with the other person. They think that if you really are in love everything will be easy and given freely without question, that it will never be tedious or irritating.

 

Some people are infatuation junkies -- they're hooked on the honeymoon phase of budding relationships.

 

I'm not suggesting that relationships which start off as strong infatuation can't ripen into something deeper and long-lasting. But consuming infatuation is not a necessary first step for love, nor is it an indicator of how well the love will endure. It sounds like your ex is setting himself up for disappointment -- he might well never find the all-consuming kind of love he seeks. And if he does, he might find himself very hurt again, because that all-consuming sort of infatuation can cause people to ignore warning signs that they wouldn't otherwise have missed.

[broken71]

Still... do you think when people say that they are looking for a unquestioned, undeniable feeling in regards to love that it's unattainable? It's like a fairytail of what love is or should be? Just in talking to him it felt as if he was saying that this is what he was looking for in a partner. It got me thinking. Is this everyone's view? Is it as simple as that? I figure everyone has questions about is he/she the right one @ certain moments in our relationship. He seemed okay that I was it until I questioned him and pushed for commitment. Then he wasn't so sure.

 

 

I think it's everyone's hope to have that unquestioned, undeniable feeling. Whether it's reality, it may be debatable. I'm sure your ex may have felt that for the woman he was hurt by. It's a very comforting feeling but naive as well since the relationship was obviously not entirely what it seemed to him. The problem with being badly burned is that the person may still think that having those comfortable unquestioned, undeniable feelings would be the sign to really pursue something more substantial but they may be so guarded that they'll never let themselves be that comfortable. That's how it was with me. I had a handful of relationships after my divorce with some good women but I didn't want to commit more. I said to myself, I don't feel that level of comfort that I felt before so let's not get too deep. Now I know, I held back on some relationships where it would've been really worthwhile to give more of myself to.

[guest2345]

uhohlala - I think what you wrote is exactly what I thought just couldn't put it down in writing. It's a shame, he's 34. I think he thinks he knows everything about relationships but I honestly don't think he did. I think he was inexperienced and

 

I believe that what you wrote was true in our case which led him to seek out new stimulation.

 

Chemistry is essential and it can't be fabricated, but a loving, caring, lasting relationship needs more than just chemistry and romance -- it needs both partners' conscious efforts. Love and a partnership built on love require compromises and sacrifices at times -- small, petty sacrifices, not huge gestures like donating a kidney. You'll be annoyed at times, frustrated at times, angry at times. Some people interpret their annoyance, etc. as evidence that they really aren't "in love" with the other person. They think that if you really are in love everything will be easy and given freely without question, that it will never be tedious or irritating.

 

I never did feel like he was great at compromising nor sacrificing. But the chemistry we had was absolute.

 

I also told him upon leaving that he was doomed to always repeat the same patterns unless he changed. I don't think he's there yet.

 

broken71

 

I think it's everyone's hope to have that unquestioned, undeniable feeling. Whether it's reality, it may be debatable. I'm sure your ex may have felt that for the woman he was hurt by. It's a very comforting feeling but naive as well since the relationship was obviously not entirely what it seemed to him. The problem with being badly burned is that the person may still think that having those comfortable unquestioned, undeniable feelings would be the sign to really pursue something more substantial but they may be so guarded that they'll never let themselves be that comfortable. That's how it was with me. I had a handful of relationships after my divorce with some good women but I didn't want to commit more. I said to myself, I don't feel that level of comfort that I felt before so let's not get too deep. Now I know, I held back on some relationships where it would've been really worthwhile to give more of myself to

 

I think he did feel this way about the woman he was hurt by. It's so sad because she cheated on him the whole time they were together and everyone but him knew! I think that's exactly what it is with him. I wonder how long it took you to realize this about yourself.

 

I think for a moment he felt that with me. Until I sought out more of a commitment.

 

** I am not attempting to get back with him btw. We spoke on a friendly/neutral level and when he opened up and said these things to me... it made me realize that the problem was so much deeper than GIGS. I knew that the initial problem was him but this admission takes the cake and it's much much deeper.

[FootofGod]

But in the next sentence he says that he lost my sense of the romantic and trust in love for a while and now he's open to it. I guess not with me. I'm okay with that, I want someone who wants me.

 

I'm gonna give you my run of it. And vent, too (this place is becoming my way of coping).:

 

I don't believe in it, and the evidence is strong against it. My ex just left me for another guy and said she "fell out of love with me," but I know that's not true. She still cries her eyes out on the rare occasions we talk. To make it worse, she left me when things between us, save her doubt, were better than ever.

 

When we were together, she let me read her old diaries and wanted me to know of her old relationships. Her first boyfriend was a total braying ***. This guy was a narcissist, some times emotionally abusive, and she said the relationship was bad for a while, but it was her first, so she stuck with it. Then she met another guy, had feelings for both, and left for the new guy... he was equally bad in the opposite ways - COMPLETELY emotionally unavailable. I've met him - it's scary, to the point of seriously doubting he has emotions. Even in private during their best times he was. Same thing happened - spark left and nothing much remained. She met me when she was already going to break up with him, they had a clean break (as in he didn't even care), and she came to me. We had 2 wonderful years together. Even up to a month before she broke it off she was stunned at how much better I was than her other boyfriends... but, an old crush and mutual friend told her he loved her, and she felt that spark again. She left me for him 5 days ago, and I had to let her go, because I care about her more than anything, and I love myself enough to live my life and be happy. We both deserve it.

 

You tell me - which is real? The life we had together, how we could always talk, how she still says I'm her best friend and was always there for her, and how she's an emotional wreck for leaving me? (that's weird, she's worse off than I am, it seems).The fact that I will let her go, possibly making a terrible mistake, because she's one of my favorite people in the whole world? Or is it really that spark that we feel - that natural drug that releases in our body, that can come with anyone (think of the weird crushes you've seen people have), always leaves eventually, and seems to make us do so many harmful things to ourselves. Don't believe Hollywood - that's all that feeling is is a natural high, but a high none the less, and abandoning important things for that high is being a drug addict. No wonder the media pushes it like a drug - it IS a drug! Here's an article about a study I found to further my point:

 

link removed

 

Look, I've done psychadelics. When you're under the influence, everything you experience is profound and REAL. Really, the drug doesn't add or subtract anything from you - it's not a magic spell. It just makes your brain release different things it already has in it. It's at least just as real as any other chemical interaction in the brain, including "passion". I don't chase those highs -I enjoyed them and they made me a better person, but I know there are far more important things. I'd dare say love is EVERYTHING BUT that spark - it's what keeps you going for 30, 40, 50 years together, not something that leaves you every time you think you figured it out. I mean, do you think love doesn't go cold for those people who have been married 30 years? It does. Alot. And it comes back, too. It's just brain chemistry. Enjoy it, but don't value it over actual love.

 

I tried to explain this to my ex before, and very briefly after, because now I told her I can't talk to her, and we have to both be happy and walk our separate paths with no guilt or shame. She might have to learn this the hard way, and the guy she left me for is real bad in relationships. I hope she learns, rather or not it ever brings her back to me... which, of course, I hope it does. And I hope everybody learns. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think I am. Love is everything but that cheap high. Don't let your biology confound your inner wisdom and strength.

 

I digress. Let them learn on their own, and maybe some day your paths will cross and you'll both be ready, knowing this. And maybe it'll be with someone new, who's already learned. Just live and love life! I wish you all the luck in the world! Stay strong!

 

***NOTE: please don't think of me as being a narcissist as well, bc reading my post, it seems a little pompous at times. I "love myself" in the good way, as in I'm comfortable but aware of my flaws, and I want to make my life better as much as I can. Not like the first guy - he'll reengineer his past to make himself look great, thinks he's better, etc. And the only reason I say I was better than them is because it really seemed I was. We can go down the checkmarks of what makes a good partner, and I outmark them all by far.

[guest2345]

No no your post was okay. A bit long but you were venting and had something to say and the point came accross very clearly.

 

I love myself too! In a goodway. That's why I let him go without chase. It's pretty sad these people, their actions and the carnage they can leave behind.

[FootofGod]

You also need to totally forgive them. For realsies- again, not the Hollywood "forgiveness." Real forgiveness - for everything, even for breaking your heart and destroying your life, if those feelings are applicable. Don't wish ill will, hope they succeed in their endeavors (even if you REALLY doubt they will- trust me, I'm there. She's gonna need the good will I gave her), and erase all the blame, even the blame they may very well deserve. Just discard it, it won't help either of you.

 

I also apologized for falling short, myself. It helps. But I said all this in our one final conversation (til enough NC time passes), as to not drag out our contact. *sigh* It's hard. I want to chase her to the ends of the earth and back, but I know it's not an option. Doing the right thing takes it out of you, especially when you feel like it already WAS taken out of you! I'm glad you're strong enough to do it!

[guest2345]

I all ready forgave him. I wasn't at first... he wanted it so much I guess because of guilt, etc. but then I thought about it and gave it to him. Forgave... not forget.

 

I think the reason I'm strong is because I went through this before with another partner. Not this exact situation but a huge huge breakup that just about killed me. Anything after that breakup feels like a walk in the park. I lovd this man... but I love myself more. This is something he'll have to deal with for a long time. I was the only one of his exes that seemed to treat him nicely - tales of a few of the others seemed iffy. Though I'm sure it was his fault, doing the same things he has done with me to them. This will be his cross to bear. I actually feel sorry for him.

[broken71]

broken71

 

 

 

I think he did feel this way about the woman he was hurt by. It's so sad because she cheated on him the whole time they were together and everyone but him knew! I think that's exactly what it is with him. I wonder how long it took you to realize this about yourself.

 

I think for a moment he felt that with me. Until I sought out more of a commitment.

 

** I am not attempting to get back with him btw. We spoke on a friendly/neutral level and when he opened up and said these things to me... it made me realize that the problem was so much deeper than GIGS. I knew that the initial problem was him but this admission takes the cake and it's much much deeper.

 

 

Well it's been 8 years since my divorce which is a long time but I don't think it was just the amount of time but also a specific event that made me realize this. Just some background on me- Married at 25, divorced at 31. Ex-wife just came home one day and said 'I never loved you' and pretty much took off by the end of the week. I suppose she cheated but I don't even think that matters anymore if there was never any love. No children or assets to divide so it was quick and clean. It took maybe a year or so before I started seeing someone on a steady basis. By then, I was convinced I knew everything about relationships. Guaging their interest in me first and then questioning my interest in them. Do they treat me good? - check... Do they like to have sex with me? - check... Do I like to have sex with them? - check... Am I really into them? - ummmmm maybe not. I make that determination fairly soon into the relationship and while it's comfortable to stay in something like this, it's not that fulfilling. I don't cheat so I would not get involved with someone else unless I break it off so when the question of commitment comes up, I would take that as a signal to break things off. This would be the pattern for the relationships I had leading up to the most recent one. In the most recent one, I told her honestly how I felt when she asked me her 'feeler' questions but never pushed for more commitment. Then 7 months ago, she said she was thinking of seeing someone else so she breaks up with me which never really occurred since my divorce. At first, I was relieved. I was thinking, 'hey.. she made it easy for me!' Within the next few weeks, this emotional tsunami just hits me, letting me know that there's something wrong. Things were good and there was real potential there so what the f am I doing? I wanted her back so bad and asked her to come back around 3 weeks later but she wasn't having it.

 

I'm not saying that it would've been worthwhile to really give my all in all the relationships I had or that it may be good for you to give this guy a second chance. I'm just saying that some people can really be held back in the current relationships by past experiences and not know it. I'm 38 now and I feel sorry for myself that it took this long. I don't know if I'll be more aware in my next relationship but at least I know that I need to question myself more if the doubts start creeping up. It's a lesson that we have to learn for ourselves. I'm still trying to get over the recent ex and it hasn't been easy. Regret's a * * * * * .

 

btw, what's GIGS?

[FootofGod]

It's hard knowing you've loved people who are all the type to just leave what at least was great thing and pretend they never loved you - hey, maybe it's true. But I really, really doubt it. There seem to be those who are ready to commit and go through the hard times when love runs cold and grow through it with the person, besides that. Then there seem to be the people who bail, can't take it, and don't know how to find the strength to stick with it. I wonder how we keep running into people of the other type...

 

I know my ex will always have a special, irreversible place in my heart, even after things are totally different and that place takes on a new context. Regret does suck, and I'll have it for a while. But it's hard to regret things you have no power over. And regretting NOT having power over them makes no sense.

 

The type that bails or hops from one relationship to another always are seeking happiness and don't know how to find it. It's like both personality types have a curse - one will always seek and never find, and we will always find it but never keep it.

[guest2345]

GIGS is grass is greener syndrome. We'd been dating for two years, two mostly good years. About four months ago I asked for more of a commitment, I wanted to live with him and wanted him to start thinking about possibly taking things a step further (no hurry but just eventually as I started to feel like I was in limbo) two months ago he started talking to another woman. I left him about a month ago after confronting him. He just contacted me. I honestly don't think that he will "come back" to me at this point in time. Maybe years from now when we're both changed. But right now? He hasn't even admitted that he's lied to me about talking to the other woman. So we have nothing. If he had just left and there had not been another, things, our interaction would have been different. Be difference.

 

In time I'll leave the past behind I'm sure but any future for us? Most likely no. I'll never say never but I'm not actively searching for it.

 

Knowing him the way I know him I believe that the tsunami will eventually hit him as well. His own friends even think he will. But it was his choice and I'm not going to talk him out of it. He wants me in his life as a friend. He'll have to go in it alone and deal with all the consequences and the regrets

[FootofGod]

Yeah, rather you *want* it or not, there pretty much is no actively searching it, I've discovered. Opportunities will be made present in the future if there's a possibility between you two. From there, you can decide what to do. Depending on when that is, we could all think and feel completely different things, rather that's a new admiration and spark or a complete feeling of being past it for good. Both of those are good ends. We just have to let go and not be intimidated by uncertainty

[FootofGod]

After all, I didn't actively search her the first time. Just think - 6 billion people on the planet, and we found each other and it was great. That's astounding. If a miracle like that can happen once, it could definitely happen again, just as mysteriously as before.

[hater13]

lol this is the kind of love my ex expected. A love where you don't ever fight, never disagree, never get hurt. Unfortunately such things do not exist.

 

Love is about compromise, understanding, patience, commitment..so many other things. It's never a fairytale. It's hard work

[guest2345]

FootofGod - Knowing him... the opportunity just might present itself again. But I guess I'm in the mindset of he's not coming back. He came back after a few weeks and though we had no conversation about us, it just made me think it's over for good, plus some of the things he said. I guess this can be a good thing because I won't be holding on. I'll admit there is a slight thought to it, but I also feel it's a unrealistic one. Still I'll never say never. Who knows. All I know now is I can't be friends with him. I'm still a bit angry.

 

 

lol this is the kind of love my ex expected. A love where you don't ever fight, never disagree, never get hurt. Unfortunately such things do not exist.

 

Love is about compromise, understanding, patience, commitment..so many other things. It's never a fairytale. It's hard work.

 

hater13 - Yeah and like I said... the fairytale relationship he was in consisted of him being "in love" with a woman who cheated on him the majority of their relationship.. I really think that if I treated him like crap we'd still be in a relationship. But... I'm not like that. Never will be. I think he believes that he did compromise, have patience, commitment and other things but we didn't. And he never really tried to listen. Well hear, it felt like he never really tried to hear me. His loss. He even wanted to be friends after. I'm thinking how can we be friends with the way you chose to end things? If he had just ended things, okay friends possibly when my feelings leave but talking to another woman before you leave? Um... how bout no? In regards to friendship.

 

I think what you guys have said about him more or less is correct. Maybe a bit of immaturity and a lot of insecurity plus a little bit of ego coming from his end. I do think he'll regret it eventually, up until this point we were pretty good together. We had fun and we were good friends. We clicked in a positive way. Maybe not a relationship way for him but other than that... he not only lost a lover, he lost a good friend.