What Employee Rights?

[Binoo]

This sucks. On Friday my boyfriend was fired from his job. He was a writer there. Been working there for over 8 months. They just pulled him into an office and said they were letting him go and for legal reasons they couldn't tell him why.

 

I called the labour board because as far as I had understood it, in Canada, anyway, after a 3 month probation a company needed just cause to can someone. And I didn't think it was right that they could refuse to even give him a reason why they were letting him go.

 

The labour board told me that employers can get rid of anyone at anytime without warning and without reason at any time, even if you've been working at a company for 20 years.

 

All he gets is one week's pay for all his hard work with that company. That's the thanks he gets. And just to add the insult to injury they won't even tell him what he's done.

 

I know a bit about the company and I know they go long periods without work and have laid off dozens of employees in the past. I think they ran out of projects and possibly hired him in haste. They only got rid of him a couple days after he finished the last company project. He had been getting positive feedback about his work from a lot of people inside and outside the company.

 

I'm just shocked that you can work somewhere and then suddenly your job is gone, just like that and there's nothing you can do about it. They don't even have to give you a reason. You can be the best employee on earth and they can sack you instantly. I just think it's sick and I'm wondering why the labour board even exists as clearly, we employees have no rights. We don't even have the right to an explanation. It just makes me really angry and sad to have to watch my boyfriend go through such depression. He moved from the opposite end of the country for this job and went in every day. This is ridiculous...

[OntheWire]

I was saying in another thread the other day that companies can be very evil. This is sad, but not surprising...and certainly not the worst sin corporations have been guilt of.

 

You really have to look out for yourself in the corporate world. Make sure you're saving, make sure you're always following the job market, and keep it in your mind at all times that you can be let go at any moment.

 

Tell him to try not to let the experience make him bitter... just aware. And keep looking... there's another opportunity right around the corner.

[FathomFear]

Well, him not receiving a reason could also be a blessing in disguise. For example, if it was at all related to his on-the-job performance (ie, if he was fired for not meeting expectations) he would not be eligible for EI.

[doiiiieeezie]

I'm sorry that this happened to your bf. It's true that you can be let go in the first 3 months without just cause. However, it happens regardless how long you have been with the company, especially in his industry.

 

Having said that, he should ask for his Record Of Employment if he doesn't receive it in a month and apply for EI right away. He should also build up his portfolio and create a linkedin account if he hasn't already.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

When jobs aren't unionized it is very easy to get rid of the employee. The minute there is a union it becomes more difficult...however, on the flip side, some employees who know they are backed up by a union end up being real slackers because they can get away with it. So many organizations have have been burned by employees who get away with little work and a bad attitude because they have a union that protects them. Sadly it is indeed an everyone out for themself attitude in the workplace, both employer and employee often forgetting about common courtesy and sound work ethic. Sounds like your bfs employer is having financial issues and they want to keep that hush hush so that is why they are not explaining themselves. Having been in you bfs shoes before I know how rough it is to be let go and fearful of the future. I hope he finds something else quickly.

[FarthestEdge]

You can quit without notice, cause or explanation at any time....

But if a company terminates the employment, they are automatically EVIL?

 

Companies are there to make money, not give people a free ride. If continuing your employement is not going to add to their profitability in the long run, then to keep you on violates the managers responsibilities to the shareholders- the people who put up the money for the company in the first place.

 

Why should the employer be held to a different standard? You both agree at the outset that YOU will perform XYZ, and they will pay you $$$. It stands to reason then, if one of you can unilaterally end the contract, the other should be able to do so as well. As it is, the employer is required by law to provide reasonable notice, or pay in lieu, but we, as individuals can walk out with no notice whatsoever, leaving the company in the lurch. Really individuals have more freedom to do as they please under the law than companies do.

 

I'm not saying it doesn't suck to lose a job when you've done nothing wrong. But look at it this way-your boyfriends employer COULD have given notice instead of a weeks pay. In that case, he'd have to spend that week WORKING instead of looking for a job.

 

He should ask for a letter of reference, and try to leave on good terms. If he's done a good job, the letter should reflect that, and be helpful in his job search. But you can't expect a company to continue to emply someone for their personal benefit at the expense of the company.

[Night Pumpkin]

People get fired all the time without reason, whether on probation or not. I have also been fired suddenly without any explanation. In fact when I politely asked for an explanation they just yelled at me.

 

FathomFear, people do get unemployment insurance unless they were fired for their own misconduct. Poor work performance is not a reason for you to be denied unemployment. The employer would need to prove, on a balance of probabilities that you did something that you knew or should have known would result in your employment being terminated.

[Night Pumpkin]

Just because a person or company can do something, that doesn't make it right. A company can fired anyone with or without reason, and an employee can quit anytime with or without reason. But just because there is a legal right to do something, that doesn't make it right.

 

Companies have a moral duty to do the right thing for their employees, and employees have a moral duty to do the right thing for their company. I do believe that companies that mistreat their employees will be punished and will face the moral consequences of their actions. Time and time again I have seen companies that mistreated or exploited their employees go out of business or suffer collosal losses, while companies that respect and take care of their employees are the ones that survive even in tough recessions.

[Binoo]

Companies will screw over people in any way possible no matter how morally unjust it is if it'll save them a few freakin' pennies.

 

My last job for example, I worked there for 3 years. I never called in sick or took time off. I would work FOR FREE if my boss needed time off for religious holidays etc. I didn't b*tch when I would notice a couple hundred dollars off my paychecks here and there because if I did, she would take you off the schedule and you'd get squat.

One day I go into work and find the whole place gutted, she's left without giving us our final 2 weeks pay, she shredded all our documents, wouldn't leave a contact so we could get records of employment or T4 slips and didn't even have the decency to leave us with a contact for a REFERENCE.

 

We had NO notice of this...but I guess that's fair too, right?

 

I've been screwed over by more companies than you can ever begin to imagine. I understand where you're coming from with not having to give notice but morally it's wrong and I know I give notice when I've worked for a company and I expect a professional company to do the same if there are financial issues etc. which I'm assuming is the problem because it's happened to this company in the past. I'm actually opening my own business in the near future and if I need to let an employee go for any other reason besides theft and other illegal activities ie. financial issues, I will give them due notice. Ya, that's really nice that they've given my boyfriend the week off to find a job that's nearly impossible to land in the first place. Very kind of them.

[FarthestEdge]

Just because a person or company can do something, that doesn't make it right. A company can fired anyone with or without reason, and an employee can quit anytime with or without reason. But just because there is a legal right to do something, that doesn't make it right.

 

Companies have a moral duty to do the right thing for their employees, and employees have a moral duty to do the right thing for their company. I do believe that companies that mistreat their employees will be punished and will face the moral consequences of their actions. Time and time again I have seen companies that mistreated or exploited their employees go out of business or suffer collosal losses, while companies that respect and take care of their employees are the ones that survive even in tough recessions.

 

I don't disagree at all. And in truth, I believe that companies who don't do the right thing, in the long run don't earn employee loyalty. Where I work, our staff has been here an average of 12 years. It doesn't mean that once you get a job here, you're set for life. Sometimes hard decisions have to be made. And I can tell you from personal experience, that it's no fun having to terminate someone who did a great job, but for whom you have no more work, or simply cannot afford to keep them anymore. No one is sitting behind their big oak desk wringing their hands thinking "Yipee, I get to ruin someone's life today". It is usually done with a heavy heart.

 

However there is also a social responsibility that the individual overlooks. If a company keeps on staff they can't afford, or continues to pursue an avenue of business that is not profitable, then soon, NO ONE at that company will have a job and the shareholders, who put up the money to build the company, will find their investment evaporated in the mist, because the managers didn't want to let anyone go. The suppliers who counted on that companies business can also suffer...It is to NO ONES benefit for a company to willfully lose money because it gives them the warm & fuzzies. Be profitable, be charitable, be responsible and be fair.

 

All I am saying that NO ONE has a RIGHT to keep a job at the expense of the company. Nor do they have a RIGHT to know proprietary information that may have forced their termination, just to make them feel better. The OP's boyfriend is getting a weeks pay for for 8 months of employment. It's fair.

 

What would be unfair and inethical would be the employer fabricating a bogus reason to fire them with cause (when there was no 'cause') to avoid paying that week and preventing him from collecting EI benefits. Which is exactly what would happen if employers were required to have a reason to dismiss someone.

 

IMO the employer here has done nothing wrong. For whatever reason, they can't keep him. So they have informed him and compensated him.

 

It sucks as an individual. I know. Most of us have lost our jobs at one time or another. But that's life. His best bet is to look forward and not waste his time standing around waiting for an explanation. Even if he got one, it wouldn't change the fact that they can no longer keep him.

[FarthestEdge]

They ARE giving him notice. They are giving him a weeks PAY, and NOT asking him to come into work(which they are entitled to do btw) so he can go look for a job. They didn't shut the door & shred the documents. They did exactly what they are supposed to do. You have to work for a year to earn 2 weeks vacation...how much notice do you think he should be getting?

[Binoo]

They ARE giving him notice. They are giving him a weeks PAY, and NOT asking him to come into work(which they are entitled to do btw) so he can go look for a job. They didn't shut the door & shred the documents. They did exactly what they are supposed to do. You have to work for a year to earn 2 weeks vacation...how much notice do you think he should be getting?

 

Okay, I`m sorry it`s just been difficult having to watch him go through the depression and stress he is because of this company.

 

As for notice, as much as possible. If it`s a financial issue, they should let him know as soon as they understand they`re unable to keep him on to tell him he should start looking elsewhere. And I agree that most companies probably don`t enjoy firing people but that doesn`t really explain the stupid smile his manager had on her face when she sacked him. I just think that`s plain b*tchy. She`s ruining someone`s life and couldn`t be happier about it. I think it would have been a bit less angering if she actually had some sympathy.

 

I guess that`s what I`m upset about more than anything else. Not the fact that they fired him but that they had absolutely no sympathy or remorse. THAT is why I think companies are evil. Because they don`t give a crap or in cases like this, find amusement in it and some people or companies will omit human compassion completely if it means a few extra dollars in their pockets.

[FarthestEdge]

Well, I don't know, because I wasn't there, but that "stupid smile" could have been her being a b*tch, in which case, he will be better off in the long run finding a job where he will be appreciated.. But it also could have been that she was trying to be kind, and convey through her smile, what she couldn't say using words. MAYBE, just maybe, she really liked him, and didn't want him to walk out calling her a cold b*tch for being an expressionless zombie when she fired him. It could have been a sympathy smile, a "I really wish I didn't have to do this" smile, a "please don't hate me" smile...

 

I won't argue the point with you, because there are nasty people out there who shouldn't be in charge of personnel. So who knows. But I can tell you that I, and others I know have been on the receiving end of an employee who perceived sinister intent when there was absolutely none, because they can't accept the fact that for whatever reason, it was time to end the employer/employee relationship. So they figure, since it can't be THEIR fault, then it must be the MANAGER'S fault (she's a b*tch, he's an a$$)... Sometimes no one is at fault, it is just what needs to be done.

 

It sucks losing a job. You feel rejected. But it sounds to me like it has very little, if anything to do with his performance. They're not even trying to tell him it was his fault in any way. His best bet, IMO is to ask for a reference and try (I know it's hard), really try, not to take it personally.

[Day_Walker]

Well, of course the rights that an employee has is going to vary by the country that you live in and/or the state in which that employee lives.

 

At-will employment works both ways, just as an employee could be fired by an employor at anytime (unless they have an employment contract that requires just cause for termination), the employee is also able to leave his employment at anytime.

[Red Fox]

Yes it sucks, no doubt about that. I can understand that when work dries up sometimes you can have no other option but to make people redundant. However from what you say they seem to be providing no reason at all for his dismissal? It's quite bad as even if there are no laws in your country against it, you would have thought it common courtesy to say the reason why. Something like sorry but this work is dried up / we are struggling and can't pay X staff / we don't have the work to justify having X of this type of staff, or whatever would not cost anything and it's good practice.

 

It is often forgotten that actually corporations (companies that are controlled by shareholders) exist and were given the legal rights that they have originally to serve the public. The legal rights were originally not given as a way of enriching the few at the expense of the many. Corporations are there to serve us. Corporations have more power and resources than you or me even though they do not have greater legal rights. Therefore when he is looking for a new job I would always where possible recommend joining a union. It is a very small check to stand up for his rights, that he might find he is unable to get on his own. I have never heard of a situation where unions were powerful enough to allow workers to take a free ride on an employer, almost always the employer holds more power overall, but a union is a good check against management excess (I'll stop here now though might be straying of topic a bit).

 

In his situation I would be worried about what they might say in a reference as they are unwilling to provide him with a reason for dismissal. I would say there it is best if possible find another person that can act as a referee when he is looking for a new job as you just don't know what this company will say (if they even bother to reply) if asked for a reference. If however it was a big company and he had a line manager that he got on with perhaps that line manager could still provide a reference and avoid the higher managers, but he may need to sound this out with the line manager first carefully.

[CatsMeeoow]

I have to agree with this.

 

I'm sorry your boyfriend was let go and that certainly leaves a huge unknown for him.

 

Decades ago - yes people commonly worked for the same employer their entire career... these days people are much more mobile and often having several jobs over the course of their lifetime. This is part of how our lives have changed with the change in technology. People used to stay in the same town they grew up in... pretty rare these days.

 

Companies expand quickly to keep up with demand will often be deflated as quickly when demand stops. With this economy with the exception of a few business there isn't much profit which is why volume is important.

 

8months is not a long time to be employed at one job. Its a position that didn't work and if you can see now that they have let a lot of other people go due to financial problems you and your boyfriend should have seen the writing on the walls.

 

I'll keep my fingers crossed your boyfriend can find fast new employment!

[FarthestEdge]

Yes it sucks, no doubt about that. I can understand that when work dries up sometimes you can have no other option but to make people redundant. However from what you say they seem to be providing no reason at all for his dismissal? It's quite bad as even if there are no laws in your country against it, you would have thought it common courtesy to say the reason why. Something like sorry but this work is dried up / we are struggling and can't pay X staff / we don't have the work to justify having X of this type of staff, or whatever would not cost anything and it's good practice.

.

 

I don't know about this company in particular. But they said they couldn't say "for legal reasons"

 

For example. If they are being bought by a public company, but one of the terms of the purchase is the removal of certain staff/departments, disclosing that information (that they are being bought by a public company) amounts to insider information, and these days people go to jail for stuff like that. That is just one of dozens of such scenarios I could come up with.

 

You don't know. Common courtesy does not require them to break the law to make him feel better. If they said it's a legal reason, then he should accept it. Ask for a letter of reference, as it would likely say "In the time X has been here, he has been a productive member of the team, and we are sorry to see him go..."

[Binoo]

I understand companies don't HAVE to keep people employed for the rests of their lives.

 

But it would be great if they would be willing to further discuss the contract that was signed at the time of his employment stating just cause was needed for termination after 3 months of employment.

And what would be even nicer would be them returning either his calls or e-mails asking kindly for a reference. I don't understand. He hasn't done anything illegal or bad to this company. He's not slandering them in any way or said anything mean to them or really even about them. The "b*tch" statement was my own. If they're letting him go for financial reasons or whatever then don't they at least owe him a reference if nothing else? I'm speaking more about human decency above anything else.

 

As far as the stupid smiling goes, I can believe some people would use that as a means to soften the blow but I've met this woman a few times in the past. When I've met my boyfriend after work I've held the door open for her and she's rolled her eyes, scoffed and so forth. I know it's just little details but body language like that can tell you a lot about a person. Of course, I didn't react to it because she was my boyfriends' boss but if she were anyone else I wouldn't have responded so kindly to her reactions.

So, again, I can accept perhaps someone else smiling because they think it's helping but during the times I've met this particular woman, I don't believe it's the case.

Also, I've been fired once in the past. My employer did it infront of not only the entire staff but also more than half the restaurant I was working at and when he asked what experience I had had in the past I told him and he LAUGHED. He actually LAUGHED in my face and infront of dozens of people because I only had 5 years experience in food service. I agree many companies probably don't enjoying letting people go but I know there are some that do. And because of the humilation I suffered that day it makes me extremely angry that it's happening to someone I care about.

 

I guess I just can't wrap my head around the fact that some companies are so morally bankrupt it's actually making me feel sick to my stomach. I'm really not asking for advice per se or looking for any sort of retaliation. I already know I have no rights as an employee nor does anyone else so it's not like I'm looking for a loophole because I know there isn't one. I'm venting because I'm angry. I know how crappy this feels and now I have to watch someone I care for suffer the same thing.

[Red Fox]

I do not know what laws are in force in relation to Canada where the original poster is. In the UK employees with one years service or more and those who are dismissed while pregnant for example are legally entitled to receive within 14 days written reasons for their dismissal on their request. Therefore if the UK can legally oblige employers in certain circumstances to provide a written reason for dismissal within 14 days then clearly as the UK also has insider trading laws I do not see this as barrier.

 

Surely in Canada where the original poster is they have laws that prevent dismissal on grounds of pregnancy and sex. Therefore it seems unlikely if say the situation was different and the person dismissed was a pregnant woman for example that took legal action against that employer then that employer would be forced to give a reason for dismissal to the court or lose the case. They would not be able to hide behind "legal reasons" as an excuse for not telling the court why someone was dismissed for example. So therefore I do think it is common courtesy to tell someone why they are dismissed. If a company is being bought by a public company for example then the reason for redundancy only has to be given as "there is no longer a need for your post and you are redundant", there is no need to give away potential takeover / merger details at all.

[Binoo]

Well, here in Canada we do have discrimation laws like that. However, some companies will get around that any way they can. I dated someone several years back who had a disease that would come and go [ colitis ] and they ended up firing him after a couple years because of it. He went into a flare after almost two years, took a week off because of it and he got canned even though he has a legitimare disease and notes from his doctor explaining this to the company. As far as I was aware, you couldn't discriminate against employees when it came to disability and that sort of thing. But the more I learn about labour laws in this province and the more companies I work for and the more stories I hear from other people, the more I learn about all sorts of unethical and illegal things they get away with [ ie. firing for discrimination, embezzelment, refusing breaks both paid and unpaid, stealing money from employees etc. ].

 

Besides wanting to open my own business because I would love to be self-employed, I also want to do it because I know that I am POWERLESS to keep employers from stealing from me, from humilating me, from lying and taking advantage of me. Maybe I'm just unlucky but I've never worked for a company that's treated me like a human being. I've had my money stolen, been lied to, been humilated infront of dozens of people, been physically and emotionally harassed etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Labour laws in Ontario are just on paper and not put into action. So, this is my way out.