I have known a guy for almost 3 years and he won't meet me in person...

[rkye]

I am in kinda position of your "bad guy" here. I have a relationship with this girl going since september of last year. We are very close to each other, talk every night on MSN, share pictures and stuff. The situation is a bit more complicated, i am from Europe and she is in US.. on top of that, she's living in quite bad conditions with abusive family, but thats not the point. I told her, i cant travel over there anytime soon (~1 year), i need to finish school and earn some money, so i can actually get there. She keeps asking me when she will see me - and for now, my answer is simple and reasonable. But i keep asking myself... what will happen when i will have a chance. Quite frankly its scaring me a little. Do i really want to give up on my current life and move to the unknown? I am the type of guy you called "looser" in this thread - i dont have much of a life, i had no girlfriend for years, I am shy... Its fear that keeps me thinking. I dont have any other girls in my life and i am not looking, yet here i am in doubts. I certainly dont wanna end up lenghting it for 3 years and wasting time of us both. I want her, but its just seem too complicated. Maybe there is something wrong with me, like someone in this thread pointed out, about guys like me.

 

Sorry for lenghty post and my bad spelling - not native speaker. Just thought i'll give you little insight from "another side". But ultimately, soconfused1022 - i think you made a right choice. It doesnt seem to be only the fear and confussion that is keeping him from meeting you in person. If there is someone to feel sorry for, its definitely you, not him. He'll miss you, but he will manage... Stay strong and good luck with finding someone you deserve.

[soconfused1022]

Thanks for writing and giving me some insight. I think you are different than the guy I know. I think he just wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wants to keep me on the "hook" while he looks around and dates other girls. When he finds one he thinks is a keeper he will drop me. I know that now. The truth is I will most likely never know what his hang up really is. Doesn't matter though because it is not a healthy situation for me. It is crushing my self confidence and self esteem.

 

I have known the guy the for 3 years. What is the big deal about seeing me, even if it is just one time. Being in the same room with a person you have known for so long and shared so much with doesn't seem like a bad thing to me. I will never understand it.

[lavenderdove]

^^

To give you some perspective on how some people like your guy think, there are some people who need a LOT of attention and stimulation, and they need to have quite a few people on the hook at once to provide them with that adoration, attention, stimulation etc. 24x7, or they panic or feel hollow.

 

Frequently they are sort of hollow people, who don't have the ability to be at peace with themselves on their own without someone always available (or several someones) to fill their personal gaps.

 

There is also something almost incestuous about these kind of fantasy online relationships, where they are trying to recreate the closeness/spoiling they had with an overenmeshed mother/father figure, without the sexual component since you don't actually see each other. It is normal and healthy to really want to see and be with someone physically for sex etc., and if someone is content perpetually with just an emotional bond without every actually seeing each other, they are either getting sex elsewhere or repeating some kind overly enmeshed emotional attachment to a mother/father figure, where the sex would actually spoil it in their minds since that is taboo with a parent figure.

 

The guy i know who does things like this had an overly doting/protective mother, and he needs constant female attention and nurturing, but never seems to be able to form a normal close relationship with a woman, and has a string of exes to prove it. He prefers to have lots of women in his life at once, but they are all there with the purpose of adoring him and paying attention to him whenever he wants it, but he basically doesn't want any one of them making too many demands on him. He compartmentalizes his life, such that he has one primary wife/girlfriend who takes care of the home and is a rather nurturing person, but he 'escapes' to other women, some for emotional support, and some for the hot sex he isn't getting at home.

 

So it is a quite twisted dynamic if the fantasy relationship goes on and on and he never agrees to actually meet and consummate the relationship so to speak.

 

There's something very intimate about all the phones calls and heartfelt emails, BUT it is perfectly 'safe' for him because when he doesn't want to talk to you, he just hangs up the phone or logs off, and he has no further responsibilities to you, and you have no visibility whatsoever into what he does with his time when he's not on the phone/computer with you.

 

He also can construct the 'perfect woman' by having several different women to fill his needs at the same time... one for deep emotional intimacy on the phone/computer, others he may not like as much but thinks are hot for sex etc.

 

So people who do this are fundamentally hollow or selfish and probably need counseling because they are not willing to break outside their own comfortable existence to put themselves out to have a REAL relationship, and are perfectly willing to string a bunch of people along to get their needs met. They can be extremely needy in their own way, but only want their needs filled in a way that makes few demands on themselves.

 

The problem with you is probably he ENJOYS your private little phone conversations/email BUT he doesn't want to put himself out to have a real life LDR with someone. He DOES want to have his cake and eat it too, and may really be dependent on you, but that's not the same as a normal love where he wants a full relationship with a single person, and all the normal demands/responsibilities that go along with that.

 

He may be stuck in his 'teenaged years', where he wants a stable home base, but experiments with lots of women and wants no real responsibility to any of them. The guy i know who does this has a bad case of arrested development!

[Batya33]

That's a very interesting analysis and it makes me feel even better that I never got to that point with anyone I typed and talked with on the Internet - if they weren't willing to meet me in person ASAP after the first phone call (which almost always was a day or less after we exchanged one or two emails) I ended all contact because I was on dating sites to meet people in person to see if we should date, not for a chat buddy (and this is not meant to criticize the OP's decision!). I never wanted to or cared to know "why" there would be any delay because I had no time to waste as far as finding the right person for me and I had plenty of chat buddies and good friends I had never met in person. I also wonder whether an analysis like that, interesting as it is, really helps the person who is waiting for the chat buddy to step up to the plate and stop making excuses. I would think it's a temporary bandaid but that the attachment by then is so strong that it doesn't feel validating.

 

If I had allowed myself to continue to type and talk to someone I had romantic interest in I would have started to be attached to the "why" and wasted even more time. One of my friends, now in her mid 40s, spent three years, about 3-4 years ago, typing and talking to an on line "boyfriend" thousands of miles away. She met him once in person and then kept listening to his excuses over the next 2 years as to why he couldn't meet with her again. She refused to meet other men I offered to set her up with back then because of her "boyfriend". Especially for women who are vulnerable or fragile/lonely it can be impossible to walk away from the screen.

[lavenderdove]

^^

But that analysis IS useful from the standpoint that it explains that the guy doesn't really WANT a real relationship, and she is wasting her time if she does want one.

 

He wants a pseudo/twisted relationship that is all about fantasy and nurturing his emotional needs, without being involved in a real relationship.

 

Online relationships are only good as a means of INTRODUCTION, but once you are past the introduction and think the person might be someone you want to date IN PERSON, then it needs to move to the next stage and become a real relationhip where the people meet and date in person. If it doesn't progress past the talking phase in fairly short order, and one person refuses to meet and conduct a real relationship, then the one who is hoping for a real relationship needs to accept that the other person most likely has some emotional issues/problems and is just not interested in a real relationship, and it will never happen because they are working a different agenda other than wanting a real partner.

 

People need to understand that there are people out there like this, who are HAPPY with a fantasy and to never meet up and make it real. What keeps people hooked is the hope/expectation that the other person wants to have a normal relationship/meet with them, when in reality, there are plenty of people who can live in a fantasy world forever, without a real, full, normal relationship in person. If a person has fallen in love online and desperately wants to meet the person and be with them, they just can't envision that the other person doesn't feel the same. But the other person might just be someone who doesn't want a full, normal relationship, and if they don't meet relatively soon, then they need to consider the fact that the other person just isn't interested in a full relationship, regardless of what they say.

[Batya33]

I agree with this but I think it's far more simple. I would put it as "if he doesn't want to meet ASAP in person after the first few e-mails/phone call move on because for whatever reason he is not interested in being more than a chat buddy". The rest, while very interesting I think delves too deeply into the various psychological reasons someone might want to keep things limited to typing and talking and for those people who are fragile/vulnerable, they actually might get entwined in the analysis and stay in touch trying to figure out the "why", hoping to be the girlfriend/therapist/mommy the person needs.

 

And, of course, it might be nothing psychological or in depth at all - the guy might be married, he might be a gal, he might be lying about something material that would be found out in person or he just might be bored.

 

There might be none of the "emotional needs" you mention, no desire for a "fantasy relationship" -- I see you wrote "most likely" but I think it's just as likely that one of my scenarios is true, with the point being - "who cares" - once the person knows the fact - "he is not interested in meeting ASAP because he wouldn't make specific plans to meet in person ASAP" then the person who wants an in person relationship should move on and not waste time with analyzing the "why". It's far more simple that way "he is not making the effort (time and place plan) to meet in person ASAP and therefore (for whatever reason) he doesn't have enough interest in seeing if we should go on a date in real life".

 

I also think your analysis should be limited to romantic relationships which I assume it is -- I have and have had close platonic friendships with people I never met in person, including a pen pal who I wrote snail mail to for over ten years.

[soconfused1022]

I sent him an email because I wanted everything out on the table so he would know EXACTLY how I felt. Then I would have closure at least for myself. After I sent it he said to me, after all the "I care about you more than I can fathom crap", he said and I quote "I am too busy to respond to your email right now". That is it in a nutshell. He just doesn't care. It's all about him and getting his needs met. He sent me some stupid text last night and I didn't respond. This morning I was just done. I sent him a text that said I was done with him and for him to basically forget I exist. Then he writes back that I am being petty!!! I have to laugh. I wait for this guy for three years of my life, pour my heart out to him in an email and I am petty????

 

I don't know how I will be able to forgive myself for wasting so much of my life!! That is the part that hurts the most. I am so angry!!

[DN]

I forget how far away from you this guy lives? It must be a planet at some considerable distance.

[soconfused1022]

I see your point and understand what you mean. Bottom line it is not happening for whatever reason and it's way past time for me to move on. Doesn't matter why, it just is. I am not going to waste another second of my life on this man who has done absolutely nothing for me.

[soconfused1022]

I forget how far away from you this guy lives? It must be a planet at some considerable distance.

LOL, you are right. He lives in New Jersey and I live in Arizona.

[soconfused1022]

I understand what you are saying Batya33. I think your scenario makes a lot of sense for something that has gone on for 6 months or so or maybe even a year. After 3 years though I would have to agree more with what lavenderdove is saying. There has to be something else a little more deep rooted. I don't think this guy that I know is emotionally healthy. Manipulating someone for 3 years seems like it would be tiring if he just wasn't into it. I realize I hold part of the blame for continuing to speak with him too.

[Batya33]

I understand what you are saying Batya33. I think your scenario makes a lot of sense for something that has gone on for 6 months or so or maybe even a year. After 3 years though I would have to agree more with what lavenderdove is saying. There has to be something else a little more deep rooted. I don't think this guy that I know is emotionally healthy. Manipulating someone for 3 years seems like it would be tiring if he just wasn't into it. I realize I hold part of the blame for continuing to speak with him too.

 

Or, he is married or likes the attention/ego boost he gets from you or likes that this way he can tell himself he is trying to date and meet people so he has an excuse not to go out.

 

What I meant was that if you cut things off after a few weeks of typing/talking it doesn't matter why he doesn't want to put the effort into meeting, and focusing on the "why" might make it tempting to continue to be in contact to find out the reason or "help" the person deal with his so-called issues.

[soconfused1022]

Or, he is married or likes the attention/ego boost he gets from you or likes that this way he can tell himself he is trying to date and meet people so he has an excuse not to go out.

 

What I meant was that if you cut things off after a few weeks of typing/talking it doesn't matter why he doesn't want to put the effort into meeting, and focusing on the "why" might make it tempting to continue to be in contact to find out the reason or "help" the person deal with his so-called issues.

I understand what you are saying. The guy I was talking to lives in a different state so it's not as easy as saying meet me for dinner next week. You are right in saying that after a certain amount of time though it is time to cut your losses and move on. I read what you wrote about your friend. She would not even date anyone that lives close because of the "online boyfriend". I don't want to be that girl. Thanks so much for writing and helping me try and understand. I have to worry about myself and this is not a healthy situation whatsover.

[Taikero]

I understand what you are saying. The guy I was talking to lives in a different state so it's not as easy as saying meet me for dinner next week. You are right in saying that after a certain amount of time though it is time to cut your losses and move on. I read what you wrote about your friend. She would even date anyone that lives close because of the "online boyfriend". I don't want to be that girl. Thanks so much for writing and helping me try and understand. I have to worry about myself and this is not a healthy situation whatsover.

 

At any point in time, if I really wanted to see a girl anywhere in the U.S., I could go any weekend on a flight to see her.

 

If I wanted more time and wanted to schedule time off work, it would take at most a month.

 

The only possible excuse anyone can use to not see someone if things are legitimate is money. Money is a perfectly okay limiting factor, but really, it's also a very easy thing to work around if you REALLY want something.

 

Stay strong, don't respond to him.

[Batya33]

I understand what you are saying. The guy I was talking to lives in a different state so it's not as easy as saying meet me for dinner next week. You are right in saying that after a certain amount of time though it is time to cut your losses and move on. I read what you wrote about your friend. She would not even date anyone that lives close because of the "online boyfriend". I don't want to be that girl. Thanks so much for writing and helping me try and understand. I have to worry about myself and this is not a healthy situation whatsover.

 

I understand about the distance which is why I wrote "ASAP" - and ASAP with distance can be 2-3 weeks to buy a ticket in advance. If money is an issue then I would wonder why the person would have started contacting people from far away in the first place. I was in an LDR for a few years with my husband so I know how hard it can be to schedule time together.

 

I'm so so glad you have decided to move on.

[soconfused1022]

Wanted to tell everyone that I spoke to him last night and got him to admit to everything finally. He wants me in his life as a friend only. Doesn't want to take things any further or meet in real life. I already knew that but it helped me to hear him say it at least. I am so angry that I let him lead me on for so long and then take zero responsibility in the end for anything he had done to hurt me. Then I found out from facebook that apparently he has been talking to someone from Denver for about 2 years. Doing the same thing to her. Apparently he did meet her once though and has been leading her on ever since. Not seeing her a second time. About 15 minutes after we hung up there was a note on his facebook from the Denver girl that said "I guess you are alive...thanks for the text". He is racing to fill the void I am leaving. Like I never meant anything at all. It's devastating.

 

I have my closure now and I know I can move on. He isn't worth it. Now I have to deal with the fact that I was so naive and that I wasted 3 years of my life for NOTHING, ZILCH, ZIP, NADA. I don't know what lesson I can possibly learn from this. It is a huge relief though and I feel like there is a huge weight off my shoulders. I guess that is the first step.

[DN]

I am sorry this happened.

 

I suppose the best lesson to learn is that if someone constantly finds excuses and won't meet - time to move on. Three months would have been long enough - three years is extreme.

[lavenderdove]

Oh honey, I'm so sorry!! You were sincere and had the best of intentions, so don't beat yourself up too much. Where you were coming from is there is NO WAY as a person you would lead someone else on like he did you, so you just kept believing him. Honest people tend to underestimate how much many people can and do lie to get their needs met! You are also a patient person too if you were willing to wait, so patience and sincerity and honesty are great qualities, but can be abused by a liar.

 

ANYONE can be abused or tricked by a liar, but the more experience you get, the more likely you are to recognize such a person and not be used again.

 

I was involved with a guy like this once, who was local but kept making all these promises that never came thru. I would NEVER make a promise i didn't intend to fulfil to the best of my ability, so i was very patient and vulnerable to anyone would would lie and mislead me, because it just wasn't in my program to lie and mislead or use people so i didn't recognize it in others.

 

So pat yourself on the back for being a good and sincere person, and recognize what a RAT he was to lead you on like this when it was obviously very clear what you wanted. Make sure that in your own miind you really do lay the blame where it belongs, which is squarely on him for lying to you and leading you on.

 

Yes, you put up with it, but you had the best of intentions, so just know that in future you have really learned about how the other side (liars) live and what they are capable of. You won't fall for it again. The more painful the lesson, the more etched in your mind it will be, so you'll know better and won't fall for it again.

[soconfused1022]

Thanks for writing me. You have been so sweet. Yesterday was a really bad day for me. After all of that he actually had the nerve to call me again yesterday afternoon. Needless to say I did not answer. I won't ever talk to him again. All my friends are telling me to prepare myself because he will probably still try to manipulate me for awhile and try to weasel his way back into my life. I won't give him the time of day.

 

Today I am feeling a little better. I have my moments of anger then I get sad. Then I think about he girl in Colorado that he is talking to now and has been all along and realize what a jerk he really is. I know things will get easier with time.

[sidehop]

This may be extreme but would it help you to change your phone number? I know that could cause a lot of headache in updating your family and friends but I agree with others, he will likely start hounding you.

[soconfused1022]

This may be extreme but would it help you to change your phone number? I know that could cause a lot of headache in updating your family and friends but I agree with others, he will likely start hounding you.

I can pay my cell company to have his number blocked. If he calls me again or texts I will do that. It would be money well spent.

[sidehop]

That's awesome, I would.

[Taikero]

I agree, I would make sure he knows it's over. Remove him from IM clients, Facebook, block his number, sever any and all forms of contact so that he knows he's done.

 

It might be slightly good of you to send a message to miss Colorado warning her she's being played while you're at it.

[soconfused1022]

I agree, I would make sure he knows it's over. Remove him from IM clients, Facebook, block his number, sever any and all forms of contact so that he knows he's done.

 

It might be slightly good of you to send a message to miss Colorado warning her she's being played while you're at it.

I thought about that but I am not sure I will. He would just try and worm his way out of it somehow and make her think that I was the bad person. He actually met her from what it looks like but that was 2 years ago almost. Surely she would know by now that he isn't going to see her again or he would have by now. Who knows what he will do. Maybe he would go visit her again, maybe not. I just want him gone.

 

I have deleted him from facebook, awhile back. For some reason on my phone I can still see his "Wall" even though he isn't on my friends list. That is how I saw the comment she wrote.

[lavenderdove]

I think it would be well worth whatever it costs to block his number. You know it isn't going anywhere, so no point in having him continue to intrude into your life and delay your healing.

 

The guy i know who does this will lay low for a while, then make another run at me, and he's done this for YEARS. He just adds and drops women from his list based on who will talk to him at any given time. And since it costs him nothing to text, email, call, he'll continue to do it in hopes of breaking you down when your willpower is low. I think a lot of it is a game, seeing how many women he can get on the hook, and he 'scores' whenever he breaks down someone's resistance and worms his way back in.

 

The point is he already has what he wants from you, but you've never gotten what he promised you, to meet and have a real relationship. So he was selling you a false bill of goods, and you owe him nothing, and blocking him is probably the easiest/quickest way to get him out of your life and prevent him from hassling you. Every little contact will set you back some, so best to have none.