Moving things forward w/ a shy guy?

[Curious_Girl]

Well since this thread has been taken over by others, but I can't delete it, I guess I'll just take off my question!

[Batya33]

I think your idea might overwhelm him in a bad way but if you could come up with a movie, event, museum exhibition that you think he might be interested in, then why not ask whether he would like to go/to see it, etc. in a casual way so it doesn't come accross as a formal date. That way he won't feel as cornered/confronted and can focus on the suggested activity more than the "OMG she likes me and wants me to call her" if indeed he is shy.

 

From what you wrote, my sense is that he is either not interested in dating you or not available to date you -- he might be shy, but in my experiences shy guys in that age range especially will choose to overcome that shyness if they are interested in going on a date with a woman.

 

I should add that I probably wouldn't do what I suggested because it worked best for me when the man asked me out after I showed interest (including shy guys) but there's no real harm and it sounds like you're not willing to wait for him to ask you out, or not willing to decide to put him off your radar and assume that if he is interested in dating you he will ask you out on a date. I wouldn't make the suggestion more than once and then leave the ball in his court - I would also stop initiating conversations once you extend the invitation.

[Curious_Girl]

You are fast!

 

From what you wrote, my sense is that he is either not interested in dating you or not available to date you -- he might be shy, but in my experiences shy guys in that age range especially will choose to overcome that shyness if they are interested in going on a date with a woman.

 

I think he will get there, but I get the feeling it will be once the class is over!

 

I'm honestly 99% sure that he is into me, but just really, really shy. I guess he's one of the few guys that hasn't outgrown it.

[theproman23]

I am sort of shy guy myself and if I had conversations like you've described I've would exstatic if the girl I've been talking to gave me her number but then again that's me.

 

I tend to open up a lot once I get to know someone. I don't think it's a bad idea to suggest doing something together. Next time you talk to him see if you can bring up what his weekend plans are going to be and if you feel he's giving you an opening to suggest something, like if he answers "ahh i am really doing nothing" or "I am not sure yet" you can suggest something and go from there.

 

Just curious what type of class you guys are in cause may be you can suggest something in relation to the class and this way you are not doing something completely random and you can get him to be more comfortable around you.

 

Also, it sounds like he's not going to ask you out and indeed is waiting for you. Believe me not calling him a wuss but I kind am and I know it would make me nothing but happy if a girl I liked suggested we do something.

[Curious_Girl]

Thanks Proman.

 

The course is a wine appreciation class, which you might think would be conducive to romance, but sadly, we do not drink enough, lol!!

 

It would be awkward to suggest something related b/c it would sound really date-like anyway - "hey, let's go taste some wine together at a bar this weekend!"

 

I like your idea of asking abt weekend plans, but I usually see him on Mondays (class is cancelled tonight though), so wouldn't that seem a bit weird?

[theproman23]

Hmm depending on the area you live in, can you may be suggest a winery nearby.

 

Yeah understandable it's a little tougher to bring up the weekend but at least it'll give you a hint of how he might feel towards you.

 

If it's a decisive yeah I've got plans or I am pretty busy that MIGHT indicate he's not interested or just that, that he's busy. But if he says something like I am not sure, still trying to figure things out that he might be giving you an opening.

 

Either way, so what if what ever you suggest seems date like? You guys are both adults and I think at the age that you can both be mature enough if he's not interested. No need to make it too serious, something casual, you know? In the time you have talked to him has be displayed any interests that can be turned in to a date?

 

It sounds like you do like him and don't want to really pass on him, if so, I say you go for it and suggest something and make sure to play it cool if he's not interested and if he is, hey that's even better!

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

[theproman23]

Also, you can try asking him about his past weekend, how it went. Being that it's Monday, whatever he says might give you an indication if he was just sitting around or if he was busy.

 

Also, are there other people in the class that get in on the conversations with you guys? If so, may be suggest going somewhere after the class as a group and make sure to include him, lol. And then may be once you are out you can feel him out and suggest something for later on in the week. Even a cup of coffee would be a good start.

[bruinsy81]

Batya,how many times are you going to mention that a shy man will overcome his shyness if he is interested in dating a woman ?You have heard of MANY cases[here on ena] when it just isn't so.Your experience is only your experience not conclusive evidence .

[Curious_Girl]

Either way, so what if what ever you suggest seems date like?

 

I'm worried that he might be too nervous to go on a date with me until he gets to know me a bit better. I don't want to jump the gun. Also, I'm thinking about what Batya said about not making it seem like a formal date or it might scare him.

 

Thanks for your advice, though - you have given me some ideas.

[Curious_Girl]

Batya,how many times are you going to mention that a shy man will overcome his shyness if he is interested in dating a woman ?You have heard of MANY cases[here on ena] when it just isn't so.Your experience is only your experience not conclusive evidence .

 

Thanks for this. I think the guy CAN overcome his shyness if he gets more comfortable, but it takes time. He won't be like the guys who just come up to a girl and ask her out the first time they see her.

[Batya33]

Batya,how many times are you going to mention that a shy man will overcome his shyness if he is interested in dating a woman ?You have heard of MANY cases[here on ena] when it just isn't so.Your experience is only your experience not conclusive evidence .

 

I never said it was conclusive evidence and I don't believe it is. I have lots of direct and indirect dating experiences over many years and in the recent past, that is all that it's based on, not trying to prove anything and certainly there are always exceptions, but when I give advice I focus more on what's generally true in my experience rather than the exceptions since most women I know don't want to waste their time and effort on a possible exception.

 

If a man is that shy that he is unable to ask a woman out for coffee (especially one who is showing interest in him) then I would say that he is not available to date anyone at that time, much less be in a serious relationship. At that time - meaning, he can choose to work on his issues so that he is available for a relationship. I had issues I had to work on in order to be better able to commit to a serious relationship - it wasn't easy, but it was doable.

 

I've never said what you wrote by the way - I have written that in general if an adult male (meaning, to me, late 20s and up) is interested AND available to date he will ask the woman out even if he is shy. I know it probably sounds circular but to me being available to date means not only being single but being emotionally available.

[bruinsy81]

Perhaps you are right.It's kind of ironic when you mention ''issues'' though.It often seems like many individuals who might have other issues such as drug abuse/alcoholism don't seem to have a problem finding a companion.It's unfortunate that shyness is likely the biggest roadblock in regards to whether or not an adult male will find a companion.Do you mean to suggest that the shyness would make it impossible for a man to maintain a healthy relationship or continue to give him problems starting one?I think I am good looking,have a good job ,my own home and am not an alcoholic/drug taker but I do have problems asking women out.I am not sure it is that black and white[if he doesn't ask you out he has emotional issues and thus undateable]..For me other issues besides my shyness contribute to me remaining alone:social isolation,working odd hours.lack of a social network,the bar scene.Many men may never be able to approach a woman cold say in a bar setting and ask her out..To me that doesn't suggest they have emotional issues but might be better suited to avoiding the bar scene.

[Go Habs Go]

Just because a guy is shy doesn't mean he has issues. If a woman is shy, she can still find a partner and no one thinks they have issues. A lot of people on this site keep mentioning that we need to get away from these double standards and we do. But, this is another double standard and one that insinuates shy men are not real men, which is not the case.

[bruinsy81]

I am just curious when you say emotionally available?Do you mean to suggest that the hypothetical male is not ready to date anyone or just not the kind of woman who expects a man to ask her out?.Most shy guys I know [myself included] who manage to get in relationships were as a result of the woman being the aggressive one in pursuing the relationship.You have mentioned before that in most cases ,in your opinion when that happens the relationship is ultimately doomed from the start because the man didn't do the choosing.Shy guys are a different breed though and in my opinion can often benefit when that happens.I know it doesn't happen everyday for most guys and taking such a passive approach can obviously lead to frustration.

[bruinsy81]

In your opinion why does a man's unwillingness to ask a woman out make him emotionally unavailable? What if a man is basically socially isolated,let's say most of his friends have moved away [for work reasons]and the majority of women he works with are already in relationships.So,this hypothetical guy rarely comes accross available single women in his day to day activity.With no social network to speak of and nowhere to go to meet available women except at a bar I refuse to accept your theory that this man is emotionally flawed because he isn't approaching women cold and asking them out.Approaching a woman cold would be a daunting task for most men let alone a shy man.

[Batya33]

In your opinion why does a man's unwillingness to ask a woman out make him emotionally unavailable? What if a man is basically socially isolated,let's say most of his friends have moved away [for work reasons]and the majority of women he works with are already in relationships.So,this hypothetical guy rarely comes accross available single women in his day to day activity.With no social network to speak of and nowhere to go to meet available women except at a bar I refuse to accept your theory that this man is emotionally flawed because he isn't approaching women cold and asking them out.Approaching a woman cold would be a daunting task for most men let alone a shy man.

 

That's not what I wrote n the least. What I wrote was that an adult man who is interested in dating a particular woman and the woman has shown interest in dating him, and he is unable to ask her out for coffee based on being that painfully shy that he can't manage to do that, is probably (with exceptions) emotionally unavailable at that time to date, which he can work on if he chooses.

 

 

When I was dating, I also found it daunting to approach men but I did it all the time. It was made easier because I put a lot of effort - often it was like having a part time job - to putting myself in social situations where I could meet men (and women who might know men to introduce me too), frequently, and I made sure to live in a city teeming with singles in my age group to increase my chances. In addition I was very active on online dating sites. My husband, for example, chose to overcome his extreme shyness when we first met and call me and ask me to lunch.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with a person choosing not to approach strangers and ask them out - that's probably not the best way to find a good match. I think approaching is much easier in the context of a shared activity or an event where conversation and mingling is much more natural.

 

If a person, however, says that it is very important to him or to her to find a mate, my next question is going to be what actions are you taking to reach your goal. If the answer is lots of excuses then I would wonder whether the person really did want to be in a relationship, but no I wouldn't assume he or she was emotionally unavailable - I would need to know a lot more before even considering that as a reason.

 

And, obviously there are exceptions - some people really want a mate but are struggling financially, have an illness, a family member who has an illness, lots of things. But I do get wary of the "there are no places to meet women except in a bar" or "every woman I approach is in a relationship" or "all my friends moved away". I get wary in part because I worked so hard at developing my social life after college and grad school and put myself out there time and time again, approached many men, asked out men, you name it.

Again this is just my personal opinion based on my personal experiences - not trying to be "right" or to "prove" anything.

[bruinsy81]

By wary, you mean the individual has a self defeating philosophy or is imagining those obstacles and perhaps thinking they are insurmountable when in reality if he chose to put himself out there,he could overcome them? Do you think your husband would have been able to overcome his extreme shyness and approach you in a bar and ask you out? I agree with you in the sense that of course any shy individual has to work on that aspect of there personality[particularly if it isn't bringing them the results that they desire]but one also has to be realistic.When you suggest ''putting oneself out there'' that can mean different approaches for different people.I know many women who would never be able to approach men and ask them out.I guess the goal isn't to turn Mr. or Ms. wallflower into a social butterfly but an individual capable of developping a relationship.I am curious when you mention ''and the woman has shown interest in dating him''..That may be the key to the whole equation.Many shy men will misinterpete those signs that a woman is giving him.I know personally I have told friends of situations or encounters that happened with women when I wasn't really sure if they were signs of interest but my friends definitely thought the woman was interested but I was asleep at the wheel and missed those signs.

[bruinsy81]

Just to clarify ,Baytya are you saying that it isn't whether or not a man will ask a woman out that makes him emotionally unavailable but it is after the woman has shown interest in dating him and he still can't ask her out?Interpreting signs of interest can be a highly subjective experience though . Most shy men do have self defeatist personalities and will dismiss those signs of interest as the woman just being friendly.As you suggest any male-female interaction is a two way street.When you are dealing with shy men the hypothetical woman will obviously have to give very clear signs of interest to give the male the confidence he needs to take the plunge and ask her out.What if she doesn't give obvious signs though?How can we assume it is the male being emotionally unavailable?

[Go Habs Go]

If men that can't ask women out are emotionally unavailable, then the majority of women are as well, going by that logic.

[bruinsy81]

I don't think it is particularly fair to label someone ''emotionally unavailable'' to date on that basis alone[he won't ask me out].

[Curious_Girl]

asked out men, you name it.

 

I thought you said above that you didn't recommend asking men out b/c if they don't ask the woman out, they're not available. Did you find that was not a succcessful after all? (this isn't meant to be snarky, btw)

 

 

I think approaching is much easier in the context of a shared activity or an event where conversation and mingling is much more natural.

 

I agree. I think the best is when said activity takes place over a period of time as well, so it's not a one-shot deal. Depending on how much time you are able to spend together, even a shy guy should be able to overcome his shyness at some point if he is consistenly given opportunities to speak to the woman, and if she is approachable (or even approaches him the first few times).

[bruinsy81]

I thought you said above that you didn't recommend asking men out b/c if they don't ask the woman out, they're not available. Did you find that was not a succcessful after all? (this isn't meant to be snarky, btw)

 

 

 

 

I agree. I think the best is when said activity takes place over a period of time as well, so it's not a one-shot deal. Depending on how much time you are able to spend together, even a shy guy should be able to overcome his shyness at some point if he is consistenly given opportunities to speak to the woman, and if she is approachable (or even approaches him the first few times).

 

Asking out men probably didn't work out for Batya[i don't really know]for whatever reason,so she likely preferred to have the man do the asking.That's fine,whatever worked for her.That obviously does not make it a standard rule ,just what happened to work for her.

[bruinsy81]

I am curious as to what you define as ''emotionally unavailable''.Are you suggesting that because the male will not ask her out ,despite being given signs of interest then he is incapable of being in a romantic relationship at that time?It seems ,in my opinion to be a very narrow view of emotional health.Are we to assume based on that one defining criteria [he will not ask her out]that he is incapable of having a relationship? My guess is that the initial asking out [by either party]is an important moment in the possible relationship,otherwise how will it get started but I am not sure it is indicative as to how the relationship will progress once the initial asking out is out of the way.After all the pressure is off,both parties have a mutual attraction otherwise they wouldn't agree to the initial date.

[Batya33]

I am curious as to what you define as ''emotionally unavailable''.Are you suggesting that because the male will not ask her out ,despite being given signs of interest then he is incapable of being in a romantic relationship at that time?It seems ,in my opinion to be a very narrow view of emotional health.Are we to assume based on that one defining criteria [he will not ask her out]that he is incapable of having a relationship? My guess is that the initial asking out [by either party]is an important moment in the possible relationship,otherwise how will it get started but I am not sure it is indicative as to how the relationship will progress once the initial asking out is out of the way.After all the pressure is off,both parties have a mutual attraction otherwise they wouldn't agree to the initial date.

 

If he's an adult male and he chooses not to overcome his shyness/fear of rejection, etc to ask a woman out for coffee who is flirting with him, suggesting that they spend time together (i.e. "have you seen this movie/been to this museum/hiked in this state park, etc) then I have doubts as to whether he is emotionally available for the initiative that a dating relationship takes.

 

She's already shown interest - in my hypothetical - so even if she asks him out on a date - another way to show interest - will this person who is so anixety-ridden that he can't ask her out for coffee or ice cream really be able to ask her out for a second date, to call her to say hello, to show through his actions and words that he is interested in her? I have my doubts about that -- it's not like the woman saying "yes" to a drink is going to make his high level of anxiety disappear since she's already been showing interest, and if he can't take initiative then I don't see it ever getting off the ground (with rare exceptions).

 

I've asked out men who said yes - all it told me was that they were interested in going on that particular date with me - but I had to have the courage, the self-confidence to continue to show interest - to put myself out there - beyond that first date. I think it's very doable but if I suffered from the degree of shyness/anxiety you describe I don't know if I would have been able to without help in the form of counseling, or help from a trusted friend, etc. I'm not saying that person is "doomed" just that he might want to work on himself some before trying to date.

 

It reminds me of an ex bf of mine who didn't start dating till his late 20s. I asked him why he waited so long. He said "because it wasn't until then that I started to realize that I was worthy of someone's attention and love" - it had to click for him (and I think it was with some help from a therapist) - and he told me that before that he was just not emotionally available for a relationship (he's now happily married, got married in his early 40s).

[Go Habs Go]

If he's an adult male and he chooses not to overcome his shyness/fear of rejection, etc to ask a woman out for coffee who is flirting with him, suggesting that they spend time together (i.e. "have you seen this movie/been to this museum/hiked in this state park, etc) then I have doubts as to whether he is emotionally available for the initiative that a dating relationship takes.

 

 

I mentioned it once before and I'll mention it again. If that's your logic, than most women are emotionally unavailable. Any excuse you come up with shows a clear double standard.