I know, I know . . . DON'T call, right?

[flipside]

Well I think the "people want what they cannot have" thing only applies if you dumped him- Just sayin'. In his mind, he had you for a long time (I've been on both sides of it). Seriously though, I can honestly say I'd bet he knows you haven't moved on completely.

[SVenus113]

Yeah, true. I guess what I meant by "people want what they cannot have" is in terms of if I do not call, reach out, initiate contact, etc, he might think I have moved on. And even though I am scared of him thinking that, everyone says it is a good thing for him to think that because, in turn, he will 'want what he can't have.' The rub is that in these situations, they only come back when you truly HAVE moved on, so I am told . . . .

 

And you're probably right, after so many years and only two months, I am sure he knows I have not moved on lol.

[flipside]

wow, I can almost agree with whoever said they only come back when you truly have moved on (if you only heard my experiences, lol). I'm really hesitant to subscribe to any absolutes when it comes to human behavior though. Just waiting for now might be best. Perhaps sleep on it another night?

[SVenus113]

Yup . . . another night will make it a full two weeks tomorrow. And then if he still doesn't call, I will rationalize not to call on a weekend night (and after all, "thirsty Thursday" is practically a weekend haha) or all weekend anyway seeing how it is technically a holiday (Easter of course) . . . and then by that time more time will have passed and maybe he will have called or I won't care. But yeah, y'all basically talked me out of it tonight . . . .

 

It's a really * * * * ty feeling, but I know many of you have been there and can somewhat understand; I guess I take some sort of comfort in that (though I'm not happy to know that ANYONE has to experience heartbreak)!

[flipside]

yes, its a terrible feeling. I'm tempted to say it never fully goes away. Heartbreak is a necessary part of life, maybe. I wake up every day and feel it. Almost every one of them. I feel like every broken heart I had will always be a part of me, but each day I learn to live with them, accept it, and if possible, use it to be the best I can be.

[SVenus113]

Oh god, that's awful to think it never really goes away! Ha, as you can see this is my first, real heartbreak . . . hopefully the last? Unfortunately I am wise enough to know that it very likely won't be . . . but a girl can hope right?

 

But yes, one should never stop learning. Taking your experiences, learning from them, and growing is the only way to move forward and become a better person.

[flipside]

Well, I guess my first 'real' heartbreak was 12 years ago and it hasn't fully gone away, but I mean, its cool now. It doesn't really hurt anymore. Yes, you'd be foolish to think its your last, my friend-- unless you are very old, lol. but you sound like you gonna be alright. good attitude

[flipside]

Hey, I was reading through this thread again and I wanted to just share one more thing w/you that might help.

 

Like, I feel like he thinks that I hate him. Or that I have moved on completely . . .

 

Rest assured that no matter what happens, he hasn't moved on completely either. After that long of a relationship, even if he was the one who dealt the break-up card, he will still have an emotional attachment to you on some level for years to come. Even if he feels its best that you part ways permanently.

 

I speak from personal experience. I ended a relationship of 5 years and went permanent NC immediately. While I feel that was the best decision for us both, I still had, at times, strong emotions of loneliness, grief, loss and nostalgia for like 3 years after that.

 

So even in a situation where it seems he moved on (has a new g/f or something), realize, that its not going to be like a light switch.

[SVenus113]

Hello, all! Sorry for being so MIA but I wanted to give a quick update.

 

So after "sleeping on it" for two nights and not calling, the emotional discipline did hold out because he called!

 

I ended up talking with him for longer than I would have liked. I'm trying to follow the old "keep him wanting more" rule but it was kind-of hard because he just kept talking. So perhaps I did well there at least, in that he did the majority of the talking? I did hang up first lol, if that counts for anything.

 

He seemed happy to speak with me once again. He also mentioned hanging out several times and before we hung up told me to call him when i wanted to. I feel a bit foolish now because instead of setting something up right then I told him to contact me. I know, I know, I am playing games but I really don't want him to think he can easily walk back into things? Anyway he laughed and said ok, he'll call sometime 'soon.'

 

SO, Saturday night, I ran into him at a bar!! The horror!! Haha just joking, though it was not how I wanted our first post-break up meeting to go. He saw me and immediately brightened and seemed to make his way over here, but I just smiled and made no attempt to go talk to him so he stayed back.

 

We eventually talked. I felt like he was staring a lot and kept making excuses to come talk to me. He kept touching me too, but again, I don't want him to think it's going to be so easy so I would remove his hand. I feel conflicted about that because I WANTED his hand there and I didn't want him to think i didn't, yet at the same time I just knew it wasn't right for him to just waltz back into everything.

 

Anyway, he mentioned hanging out several times. Once again, he said he would call "soon." We'll see. I feel like I can't take everything he said that night (at the bar) very seriously because he was drinking, but he did sound quite remorseful about things and said he enjoyed talking to me on the phone . . . so we'll see? I know, don't get too hopeful.

 

Thanks for all of your advice, though, I really appreciate it! When we finally DO make plans to see each other one-on-one, I'm sure I'll be begging and pleading for advice on how to handle that.

[flipside]

--So, how's this going, if I may ask?

[SVenus113]

Flipside, you may ask, and it makes me feel good that you did!

 

So, after I saw him that one Saturday night (the eve before Easter, so I guess about two weeks ago), he called me that Thursday night. We had a pretty short conversation because I said I was going to bed. He asked once again if I would like to hang out. Again, I said yes. He suggested some time after work the coming week. I said sure and he said he'd call later on when he knew his work schedule more clearly (I work 9-5, he has more odd hours).

 

I was slightly annoyed because it was like the fourth conversation we have had where he asks to hang out but then doesn't commit. I didn't think too much of it though, and wasn't even pining over when to expect him to call.

 

The following Tuesday he called, so less than a week later. We set up to meet Thursday evening (!).

 

That Thursday (the most recent, the 15th), we confirmed our plans and met at a brewery/restaurant close by. I basically just put it in my head NOT to be nervous . . . and I really wasn't! We had a really good time, or so I thought. I am pretty sure he did too . . . . He made a lot of suggestive comments and kept telling me how happy he was to be with me, was so excited to see me, etc. I really tried to play it cool. By no means was I an ice queen, but I wasn't laying it on as thickly as he was.

 

We spent maybe about two hours together. Certainly longer than books and forums might advise one to spend with an ex they were trying to win back when spending time together for the first time (though maybe it was technically the second), but that's just the way the night progressed. He walked me to my car and I offered him a hug and it was SO nice . . . I could tell he really enjoyed holding me. He admitted he did not want the night to end and I said, "Don't look so sad, you'll see me again."

 

He actually invited me to a baseball game in a few weeks. I am really certain that he meant the invite lol, though I secretly worry he may 'forget.' I really think he was genuine in everything that was said, though I worry the alcohol may have had an effect, but he really didn't drink too much (nor did I thank god).

 

All in all, I really enjoyed our time. Originally, I had wanted to lay the cards on the table and have a serious discussion, but I also knew I wanted to have a good time and talking seriously would have impeded that. Really I just wanted to talk to tell him I am NOT interested in being his friend, though I thought he knew that. Judging by the way the evening went, I don't think he sees me as a friend, or drinking buddy, or whatever, at all. Which is why I decided not to talk about any of that. I'll admit I felt sad at one point when he said "I am better off without him" because more-or-less he feels as if he is a 'loser' now. I wanted to tell him that, "But I love you so much and am not necessarily better off without you!" but I didn't . . . .

 

Now I am more-or-less hoping to see/hear from him again soon. If the baseball thing rings true it will be in two weeks or so. I very much hope to hear from him again sooner. He asked me to send him some photos of something and I thought about sending them and also saying something like, "Hey, had a great time the other night. Hope to see you again soon." I don't know, I know I also want to act kind-of indifferent I guess for this to ever work....

[SVenus113]

Sorry the post was so long, just wanted to be thorough. By the way, I wanted to add an addendum that even though I secretly pine for my ex (no, I have not 'moved on,' though I know I will survive without him), I have been out on a date and have another one this week. So I guess I am not putting all of my eggs in one basket.

 

I think that is largely because I just really feel like things can and WILL work out if we both want it to (yeah, huge detail, I know, if we BOTH want it to haha). I mean, I didn't say that right. You see, I am reading Martha Beck's Steering by Starlight and she tells you to "begin at the end":

We have a linear view of progress: we start at the beginning of a task, and we work

our way to the end. This is a useful way to look at things, but it isn't the only way.

Especially when you're seeking to fulfill your destiny, the best way to succeed is to

begin at the end.

 

Man, I almost got on a really long, philosophical tangent, when I realized it probably isn't necessary. Basically, check out her book and think about "beginning at the end;" being in a state of mind or place where you already have that which you covet . . . .

[flipside]

Hmmm... wow, thats quite a development! -more comments on that soon. (I need to think, lol) Oh, and no worries about lengthy posts! You are quite the glass-is-half full type! You are very lucky. Its interesting. Martha Beck isn't the only person to take that approach. I've heard it many times and it can be applied so many different ways. So if you're trying to 'begin at the end' in your situation, how exactly would you do that?

[flipside]

oh, also, 2 questions. 1) Does the ex have any idea you're dating? 2) Were you and the ex together straight through all that time; was it ever an on-and-off thing?

[SVenus113]

First of all, I would just like to post a disclaimer and say that I am aware that "beginning at the end" would not work for a lot of people, I also think a lot of people one here will have a problem with it because it doesn't exactly seem like moving on. I just know I like the idea of it and I think it could be a very effective tool for staying positive, being confident, you know, "winning friends and influencing people" haha.

 

Yes, I would love to be with my ex and live 'happily ever after.' In this situation that is my "end." But really though, when you think about it, the end is being happy, being secure, being blissful, because I am in a 'successful' relationship with someone who I love deeply. So of course I want HIM, but if you really break it down, those feelings of bliss and security are the core of the "end." Essentially, I just imagine my ex and I happy and together, and I remember all of the positive things in my life with or without him, and I get myself to a secure, confident, happy state.

 

I am never going to "win" him, or anyone, back by acting depressed, mopey, not confident, etc. Granted this break-up isn't as fresh anymore and I certainly have had my uber-depressed spells. But I think that by working through this journey feeling confident that of course no matter what it will all work out, but especially by acting confident, happy, and knowing that we will be together, it all has to work out.

 

I hope this doesn't sound crazy. I also realize that nothing I said is nothing new to these boards or anywhere else. I guess everyone just takes their own time coming to these little epiphanies of sorts haha.

[SVenus113]

To answer your question, no, I suppose he doesn't know I am dating.

 

But I asked him if he had seen any movies lately he said no . . . then he said, "What about you, I'm sure you've been on a ton of movie dates," and I said, "No, haven't been to the movies in a long time' and he smiled and said, "good."

 

I don't really want to mention dating as it is all super casual and I don't think it is really any of his business unless I see that his intentions of being with me are serious. I know I sure as hell don't want to hear about him and dating!

 

Second, we really for the most part were together the whole time. We went through a month "break-up" about a year and a half ago. It was not nearly as serious as this one seems to be, mainly because we kept in contact and saw each other. I acted a FOOL and did the whole crying, depressed bit. I realized this time what I did wrong and I think this time if we get through this, it will be the real deal.

 

I am also well aware that this 'getting back together,' if it even comes to that, isn't going to happen overnight. We both still have things to go through. Though I have to admit, as hard as it has been, I feel so much better than even before when we were together. I finally have given myself and him time to really think, be alone, and digest our relationship. I just felt I needed to mention that about it not happening overnight b/c I feel as if my mom is always asking, "Oh, did he call, have you heard from him?" etc. I'm like, "Mom, I just saw him a few days ago. That is HUGE seeing as how I hadn't spent any time alone with him for a while. Give it a rest" haha.

[flipside]

Well, this was alot of information, so I'm going to respond with alot. (I'm sorry, I hope that's cool. You can just take what you find useful and discard the rest---they're just one person's point of view)

 

First of all allow me to say, this seems like its going great and you sound like you're determined to persevere no matter what! so go you- I'm envious.

You're date with the ex:

 

-Well, you're right he doesn't see you as a friend or drinking buddy at all, but that doesn't mean he doesn't want to.

 

When he said you are better of without him, I'm not sure how he meant this. This could be smokescreen. I would be wary of this comment. --you felt bad cause he was trying to tug on yer heart strings and it worked. It could really be a reflection of 'I'm better off without 'us' (commitment), cause I can do whatever i want and still come back to you and express myself and feel comfortable".

 

I can tell you for certain he meant the baseball invite. (most likely pre-planned. haha) So he layed it on thick eh? Well, I'd bet my chips on the reason being he really does miss you and i'm sure it was relieving and comforting to be with you, ---but it also could be to soothe a guilty conscience.

 

"Don't look so sad, you'll see me again."

ya kinda gave him a peak at your cards when you said this.

 

I know I also want to act kind-of indifferent I guess for this to ever work....

 

Remember, acting indifferent works ALOT of the time, but in some situations it totally bombs.

 

Ok, on beginning at the end, happy ever after, etc. -Good look; trying to project those outcomes can't hurt. I do agree; be upbeat, project a positive image and a positive outlook. use those laws of attraction.... like "what the bleep do we know" (have you seen that movie? ) This has alot of truth behind it. Esp. if your 'karma cache' is on the plus side. Man, for all the times I've found myself thinking in this manner I still have to say there is something to be said for rolling with what life deals you and feeling the negative for what it is; it helps inspire change. Though I think you know that bit already.. I dunno, maybe its just me. -I can be bitter and jaded. lol. but seriously, how's it working for you? I'm curious, cause I'm a glass-is-half-empty person most of the time I noticed you mentioned your 'end' involving security and happiness from a relationship. Do you think you could ever achieve that result not in a relationship? Alone and self-sufficient? Perhaps there is something to be said about this outlook.

 

I don't really want to mention dating as it is all super casual and I don't think it is really any of his business unless I see that his intentions of being with me are serious.

 

I think its beyond that. His intentions are very serious, they just lack conviction. -Don't you think? 8 YEARS? --c'mon. lol, if he wasn't serious about being with you, you'd have been history somewhere around HS graduation/freshman year. However, I can relate to this guy, I honestly can. 8 yrs... so, that would've made you 17 when you got together with him? damn, 17? that's awefully young. I would assume he was close in age.... He's just not sure about what else is out there. Its common and natural... You should feel the same way! In all honesty.... I think that's an ok thing to feel. Its a BIG world, girl. Seriously, you guys were just kids. Now you're young adults, you've changed. Are you really sure he's the 'one' for you too? (I don't really believe in that, but if i did, haha) How many others have you investigated? I mean, I know you said you're dating. but like, you can't be really giving these guys a chance/considering them at all from the sounds of it.

 

I realized this time what I did wrong

what do you mean? do you mean realized your own faults in the relationship?

 

It does sound like you're in good shape. If you've got dates and other prospects etc, he's got to be over there sufficiently thinking about what he could be giving up. Honestly, -you wanna ruffle that guys feathers? (i prob don't really even need to say it, but i will) ---- mention you've been dating. It'll make him nuts!

 

I've been on both sides of this. So a year and a half ago, was it he who broke up with you? This might've been your 'primer'. He may be preparing to break his own heart for a chance at seeing the possibilities of the future with another woman. I did this. I don't believe in 'Love' anymore, so I'm not going to say I loved the girl, but after a 5 yr relationship I definitely wanted to see what else was out there..... I pulled the primer.... about 3 times! -and then pulled the plug for good. In all honesty there are times I regret it, as I still cried sometimes thinking about her years later, knowing she found someone and I was still alone.... but I guess thats how it goes with pretty girls I'm thinkin he may know he's gotta prepare himself for that-- hence he tests both waters with the primer.

 

Lastly let me say you really should be thankful for what you DO have in this situation; it could be worse.

 

Being that I see you as quite the well-balanced optimist, I have one other question for you--- out of my own curiosity . I hope its not too personal/heady/deep for you... Its something I'd rather ask you in a pm though.

 

Again, I'm sorry this was a novel, I do hope you find something useful in it.

[SVenus113]

Yeah, thanks for the thoughtful response. I have some things to say to that but no solid time right now to get to that. You definitely make some valid points, though. And yes, feel free to pm me, though I can't say if I will be able to respond until the end of the day.

[SVenus113]

So thanks again for the feedback.

 

Here's what I have to say now lol.

Soo, regarding this:

 

When he said you are better of without him, I'm not sure how he meant this. This could be smokescreen. I would be wary of this comment. --you felt bad cause he was trying to tug on yer heart strings and it worked. It could really be a reflection of 'I'm better off without 'us' (commitment), cause I can do whatever i want and still come back to you and express myself and feel comfortable".

 

Yeah, I am wary. When/if I get a clue as to what he meant/means, I will let you know! It sucks to think that he could be saying it in the way you suggested . . . I don't WANT to let him come back and express himself whenever, but at the same time as you said, his intentions do seem more serious and so in that case, I am happy to let him open up to me....

 

I'm also glad you're so certain the baseball invite was genuine. I think it was, too, though sometimes I think maybe I am deluding myself so it's good to hear my thoughts echoed by someone else!

 

Remember, acting indifferent works ALOT of the time, but in some situations it totally bombs.

 

See, this is where I and I think A TON of people get stuck. How indifferent to act? You said I gave him a peek at my cards, which I agree. But sometimes I think people need a peek as encouragement? But then how much to give, you know? Like with this email I am going to send sometime soon with the photos he requested, I'd like to be friendly and say something a bit more than just, "here are your pics," but like, how much is too much before you push someone away? In my case, I think I can lay it on thicker, too, without too much negative consequence, or pulling away on his part, but one is really never sure! I guess you just got to trust your gut, maybe?

 

However, I can relate to this guy, I honestly can. 8 yrs... so, that would've made you 17 when you got together with him? damn, 17? that's awefully young. I would assume he was close in age.... He's just not sure about what else is out there. Its common and natural... You should feel the same way! In all honesty.... I think that's an ok thing to feel. Its a BIG world, girl.

 

I can relate to him, too! I totally understand. It sort-of sucks to be on the receiving end of it, and I find it hard sometimes to think how he wants, or maybe wanted at this point b/c I would not be surprised if he was regretting things now, to "see what else is out there." The reason I say I find it hard to think of him wanting that because as much as everyone says this, he cannot do better than me lol! I don't mean to sound like an arrogant ass but it's true haha. However his feelings are only natural. I have felt the same things. I forgot to mention that we did have time apart before, too, when I spent three months in Ecuador. We bounced back from that tough period, so we'll see....

 

And as for realizing what I did wrong, I meant it twofold. I truly now see things that were flawed in our relationship and I hope to use that to better a future relationship with the ex or with my next love. I also realize what I did wrong when we were broken up before. I never gave him a chance to miss or appreciate me, never. This time, things are a little different as I have not initiated any contact at all. If I send the photos I suppose that is initiating contact but he did ask me politely like three times.

 

Anyway, I want to say that I do believe in love. I don't believe that there is one and only one person out there for everyone. I can honestly say I would be happy with my ex for the rest of our lives if we both got ourselves on the right track and moved forward together. It can't be the old relationship, like many people on ENA also attest to.

[flipside]

The Pictures- Yes I say send them. If you want to say something like that say it. Be honest; be real on this one. There is something to be said for going with your gut, but there is more to be said for going with both of our guts. (disclaimer) I can't say my gut has never failed me though.

 

Ecuador?! Thats quite a place to spend 3 months!(I assume you're not from South America) But you weren't 'broken up' or seeing others, -or were you?