Who is the parent and who is the child?

[Applewhite]

Let me make something clear. I am 25, live away from my parents house (I live in another country). I do not depend on them financially - I do not ask them for money, I do not ask them to find me a job, in fact I barely ask them for anything, I don't have a good relationship with them. I don't feel close to them or I don't feel that I can depend on them.

 

I am newly starting my career and struggling with life just like most everyone my age. I am trying to be financially stable, and heading towards what could be a very promising, great career. I don't have (and have never had) bad habits that been detrimental to my life or my career. Never made any rash decisions, or irresponsible decisions and I am generally a very responsible person. I never get drunk, I never had a traffic ticket, I have never paid a bill late, I am a good student, never smoked, etc. I am ambitious and have always had well defined goals and plans. This is the kind of person I am and have always been.

 

Now I have not had a very stable and normal childhood life. I do not hold it against my mother that she didn't or couldn't protect me from my fathers physical and mental abuse. It happened and it is in the past. I move on with my life, everyday being the best person I can be. Working hard and staying positive. Making decisions on how to lead my life.

 

To this day, my mother has been unable to provide a safe home environment for me to even visit. There is stress, anger, yelling and danger at home. The sad thing is she lives in this condition year round with him, but this is by (her) choice. So I am not sure if I feel angry or frustrated or sad or confused about this. I cannot have a safe home that I call my parents house that I can go to, feel safe and wanted and visit my brother and mother. This is ok. I do not hold this against her (although I AM disappointed at this point). My mother has just told me again that she cannot promise to provide this, but that we can all stay at my grandparents house when I visit them in the summer. Which is fine, we can do this.

 

But the she goes on to ask me to provide a financial and strategic plan as to how she and my brother can move to the US and live comfortable. (Only my brother is a US citizen, my mother isn't). She wants me to plan where she would work, how he would go to college, where they would live (probably hoping to live with me etc). I am not ready to take on the burden of two grown people when I am struggling to build my life. How could I be held responsible for these things? Isn't this very unfair? I don't understand.

 

In case it is relevant, I am a graduate student living on a limited income. She has a nice job and will have retirement income when she retires. She owns a house, and is only 55. She is not the most healthy person, but her health problems are not genetic, they are in her own hands (she is overweight and has high blood pressure because of this).

 

How does one go about handling such requests. How can I provide for her or help her at this stage of my life? I don't understand. I don't know what to do.

 

Who is the parent here, and who is the child? If things work like this, I would have a child too. Especially if my child would take care of me in 25 years regardless of what bad decisions/life choices I make! What a relief that would be.

 

The icing on the cake is that my mother probably wouldn't approve of many of my life choices. For example living with my very supportive and loving boyfriend (who seems to be the only family I have at this point). Pursuing an academic career. How unfair and ridiculous is this?

[Catdancer]

You can direct her to the people who can give her more info and help her plan. You can pass on addresses and websites and collage websites for your brother. Beyond that, you are not obligated to anything else. They are not your children to raise. They are grown adults who want to move to another country. You being supportive and pointing them in the right direction is all you need to do.

[Applewhite]

You can direct her to the people who can give her more info and help her plan. You can pass on addresses and websites and collage websites for your brother. Beyond that, you are not obligated to anything else. They are not your children to raise. They are grown adults who want to move to another country. You being supportive and pointing them in the right direction is all you need to do.

 

She (and my father) have hinted in the past that they would like to move in with me and me help pay for rent in a larger house. How thoughtful of them right?

 

My days of living with them were hell for me. I was constantly scared. I developed serious mental, emotional problems because of this. To this day in their house, I am scared to go out of my room to get a drink of water or go to the bathroom. Something that happened not to long ago: I wake up with screaming and shouting when I had just hours before finally fallen asleep because I couldn't comfortably fall asleep at a normal time, being afraid that I would not be able to wake up at the right time so my father wouldn't be angry we are late for the road trip. That day I couldn't sleep until 5 AM because that is when he said we would leave. In order to please him, I made sure I Was up at that time. He however didn't get out of his room until much later. I woke up a few hours later with his screams.

 

I haven't spoken to my father in over a year (and for longer periods before this). I have stopped forgiving him. It is over for me. But to this day I have nightmares. I wake up screaming sometimes.

[Catdancer]

So, you do as I said in my above post and DO NOT move in with them. If they want to move here, then they can make plans and do it. You do not have to be involved.

[Applewhite]

So, you do as I said in my above post and DO NOT move in with them. If they want to move here, then they can make plans and do it. You do not have to be involved.

 

Oh definitely. There is no question about that. But how do I handle this when my mother keeps asking me in her every email?

 

Instead of wondering how I am doing and asking she asks if I can find her a job Or how my brother will go to college.

 

Both of my parents have been less then supportive of my career path and the things I wanted for MY life. They forced me into an undergraduate degree I didn't want and refused to help me through college if I chose the major I wanted. Then they disapproved of my career path and graduate school. I admit that my father made monetary contributions later on after seeing I was successful at what I do, but they always had strings attached and were more for his hidden agendas (like moving in with me so I help with rent and other things like this). This help was never EVER at my request. He offered it if he saw fit, and I accepted. It was never for me, and always only if he could benefit out of it in some way now or later on. And in the event that he DID help me, he always expected things in return, and felt that this entitled him to control me.

 

Now this is affecting my already non existent relationship with them. If the only thing I can discuss with my mom is how I can find her a job and support her son, then what kind of relationship is this?

[Catdancer]

SO, you send her a link to the Employment commission and send her links to colleges. End of story. It will blow up into a big deal, ONLY if you make it one.

[Applewhite]

SO, you send her a link to the Employment commission and send her links to colleges. End of story. It will blow up into a big deal, ONLY if you make it one.

 

Ok. Will try this.

[Catdancer]

Stick to your guns. Send her some links, do some research for her, WHEN you have time and offer your opinion. But that's it. Only offer what you have to give.

[Applewhite]

Stick to your guns. Send her some links, do some research for her, WHEN you have time and offer your opinion. But that's it. Only offer what you have to give.

 

I mean it is not like she doesn't have access to a computer. She can search these things herself too. But currently she has no work visa. And I just can't see how she can work without one. But she wants me to search. I don't even know how to go about doing this.

[Applewhite]

I would really appreciate comments/input from people...

[Applewhite]

Nobody, anybody, somebody?

[Perfect Dark]

What country are they in if you don't mind me asking?

[Applewhite]

What country are they in if you don't mind me asking?

 

Is it relevant? They are not in a warzone or anything like that. They actually live more comfortably than I do in a 3 story (newly built) house with nice furniture. My mother makes fairly decent money, and my father could make much more than her IF he worked. I am sure he has a lot saved up.

 

The only bad thing I can say is that the currency is weaker than the dollar. But also everything there is much cheaper, so things cancel out. They have good living conditions (economically). Certainly much better than me. I live on a graduate student salary in a one bedroom with my bf. Before him I rented a room, this was the only thing I could afford.

[Perfect Dark]

Is it relevant? They are not in a warzone or anything like that. They actually live more comfortably than I do in a 3 story (newly built) house with nice furniture. My mother makes fairly decent money, and my father could make much more than her IF he worked. I am sure he has a lot saved up.

 

The only bad thing I can say is that the currency is weaker than the dollar. But also everything there is much cheaper, so things cancel out. They have good living conditions. Certainly much better than me. I live on a graduate student salary in a one bedroom with my bf. Before him I rented a room, this was the only thing I could afford.

 

 

I think you've answered your own question here about where she and your brother should live.

 

I agree with everyone else. Stick to your guns do not let them live with you.

[Applewhite]

I think you've answered your own question here about where she and your brother should live.

 

I agree with everyone else. Stick to your guns do not let them live with you.

 

It is not about deciding whether I should let them live with me. Of course I shouldn't. In fact due to trust issues I have with my father, they don't even have my address or phone number. I am more comfortable this way.

 

But the question is how am I supposed to have a relationship with my mother if the only thing she talks to me about is how I can make her life more comfortable and secure my brothers? I cannot talk about anything else, because she wouldn't care, and the only feeling she would have is expressions of disapproval.

[Hermes]

Hike14:

 

Could I urge you to have a look at this. Lots of answers IMO. And cases pretty much identical to yours.

 

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and

 

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Run by:

 

For the past 25 years, Dr. Richard Grossman has maintained a psychotherapy practice specializing in the treatment of adult children of narcissistic parents and people with narcissistic spouses or partners. Prior to entering private practice, he taught and supervised in the internship and postdoctoral psychotherapy programs at Massachusetts General Hospital/ Harvard Medical School where he was on staff"

 

Good luck

Hermes

[Applewhite]

Hike14:

 

Could I urge you to have a look at this. Lots of answers IMO. And cases pretty much identical to yours.

 

link removed

 

and

 

link removed

 

Run by:

 

For the past 25 years, Dr. Richard Grossman has maintained a psychotherapy practice specializing in the treatment of adult children of narcissistic parents and people with narcissistic spouses or partners. Prior to entering private practice, he taught and supervised in the internship and postdoctoral psychotherapy programs at Massachusetts General Hospital/ Harvard Medical School where he was on staff"

 

Good luck

Hermes

 

Thanks. I will look at it. How do you know about this?

[Applewhite]

Reading now and one of the first things I see is about NC with the parents. LOL!

 

My second observation (Reading someones thread) is that she thinks exactly like me. I do not mean her ideas, I mean her thought process and her experiences!. This is really interesting!

 

My third observation, how people mention their parent controlling them through money. Exactly.

[Applewhite]

The other thing I just realized, is that when my parents die, I am sure my father will ensure that anything and everything left will belong to my brother. (And even if he doesn't my brother will make sure of this). He has always been like this to the extreme. With money, and even food. I never have.

 

So it is kind of pathetic and annoying that I have to worry about his college education etc. I really don't want to be bothered by it. It is unfair to me, and I do nto have to allocate any resources (including time) for this.

 

Many other observations on the thread I am reading. About controlling, and controlling with money.

[Applewhite]

I really like a post I read on that thread. (I post it below) It gives me a whole new perspective on how my relationship with my father was, and what my options are from here (although I have already chosen pretty much).

 

 

 

Well, I put on my Machiavellian pragmatic hat to write that post. As I have lurched & tip toed thru the minefield of Nism, here's something I have learned:

 

a) If someone is an N, and

b) they have money (&/or power), then,

c) they will seek to use that money (&/or power) to control others, especially their kids & employees

 

If we accept the above, then we should ask ourselves: How much do I need the N's $? How can I innoculate myself from the N's poison if I accept the N's money? Can I walk away from the N & their money & be OK financially & spiritually?

[Applewhite]

I have to share another post by some poster, as it explains it so well.

 

I find that N's aren't just convincing. They project a kind of certitude that is both intimidating and a form of security.

 

How often do you meet someone who tells you they are always 100 percent sure of everything? It breeds a false security that they use to control us and keep us thinking we are children who can not survive in the big world which only they fully understand.

 

Once I realized that my parents did not have a clue about the real world I went through a very scary time realizing that everything I'd been taught was part of their fantasy realm. They had each other so it worked for them. I had no one. As my sister often says. We aren't like other people and we never will be. We might as well have come from OZ or Wonderland.

[turnera]

One thing you have to realize is that your mother is an abuse victim, just like you were until you left. It is much harder for your mother to leave. She has many more years of abuse wearing her down, convincing her that she is incapable of caring for herself.

 

If you really wanted to do the right thing, you would research mental abuse and learn as much about it as you can, and then try to help your mother by helping HER learn about it, so that she can see a way out for HERSELF. She is asking you all the time because she desperately wants to escape her husband. But the first thing abuse does is rob you of your self-esteem and your belief that you have control.

 

If you can help your mother grow confidence, SHE can take steps to either set boundaries with her husband or else leave him. Either way, she will be happier and will stop asking you for help.

 

She sees what she wishes she had, in you. What she wishes she would have done when she was younger. Today, she has no hope. Abuse victims give up thinking they can change anything; and thus the only solution is escape.

 

She raised you. Can't you spare some time helping her now? Look up abuse centers in her area. When you visit, take her to some, so that she'll see she CAN take steps to help herself. Send her material to read. Talk to her. Help her see that she has control, since she has the money, not him.

 

As for you, are you seeing a therapist to get through your issues from the abuse? If you don't, you will just project all of them onto your own relationship, weakening its chance of survival. Abuse victims typically self-destruct their relationships in little ways. Look into it before you do that.

[Applewhite]

turnera when I try to give her material to read she refuses it. She says they live in a society where this is frowned upon and doesn't want to make anything public by divorcing him etc.

 

I completely understand how he is controlling and abusing and she can't see it. I couldn't either. I thought I couldn't do anything by myself because of him. Only he could do things, not me. Something simple as choosing and buying a car. Not necessarily because of limited resources due to young age, but I genuinely thought I couldn't cope with it alone! Other things as well. It was all his fault. He even kept my ID cards and passports (as well as my mothers) locked up in HIS room! So I know, but she i refusing any kind of help I can offer in this way. I don't think there are abuse centers where they live. Even if there were she is to proud to go anywhere like that. If only I had someone else talk to her. She wouldn't respect my opinions on this. She even thinks I am biased and exaggerating. I only now see it for what it is. 25 years later. many years AFTER moving out.