Handling a guy with stalker tendencies?

[Celadon]

So I got p.o.'ed yesterday with this guy. We belong to the same group and last year I had to have our group leader do an intervention because this guy ("John") is obsessed with me for years and tried to get my address and phone number. I told him no but he went around to other people in our group trying to get the info. There's no way I want him knowing where I live.

 

Now that he's been told to stay the hell away from me, he's backed off. Or at least, he did mostly. Until yesterday. Our group was at this cafeteria with a bunch of other groups, and it was lunchtime and everyone formed a line to get in. I was talking to someone to the side, though, so I wasn't in line. So first, John hovered around to see when I would join the line. Since I didn't, he sat down outside. Then I got in line and made sure to join some people in my group who weren't at the back. But John just got up and slid into line in back of me without saying a word. Then when we were going through the cafeteria line (there were several) of course he shadowed me as I chose a line and went through. I mean, he was standing CLOSE behind me. But I made sure to find a seat at a table that had no other room so he couldn't follow me.

 

I'm the type who wants to tackle problems head on. I hate behavior like this. But I'm wondering what to do in this case.

 

What does he want? Since there's no chance I'll ever speak to him (I don't even acknowledge he exists. I walk right by him if we're ever in the same space at the same time), what's he trying to get?

 

I have some options:

1. Ignore this situation (I'm probably not going to be part of this group anymore, I've decided for other reasons)

2. Confront him -- just because I'm that type of person and I hate NOT to defend myself (I would ask my group leader to be there with me though)

3. Tell him if he ever comes near me again I'll file a restraining order.

4. Ask my group leader to tell him to stay away from me, again.

 

I could use some advice. Help?

 

Thanks.

 

P.S. I put this in the "Dating" section 'cause I didn't know where else to put it. But I've never dated the guy.

P.P.S. Oh, and I forgot to mention, we're both adults.

[In the Dark]

What does he want?!

You really don't know?

 

He obviously really has a thing for you and being told to back off byu someone else is not going to change his mind about you.

 

You just go up and ask him, do you like me?

 

Then tell him you don't like him for what ever reasons they were before he tried to get your number.

 

The time where he was not behaving all creepy.

[annie24]

yes, maybe this guy has a crush on you but really doesn't know how to talk to women or ask them out. obviously (at least in my eyes) he doesn't need your phone number or home address to ask you out because he sees you at that group.

 

if it were me, whenever i was around him, i would start to talk LOUDLY about some other man i am interested in. you know, give him the hint.

 

but if you're going to leave the group anyways, then i guess it will be settled that way.

 

does john ever talk to you, or just hover?

[jezebel280]

You need to tell him to cease his actions and stop having contact with him. Stay away from "his" group. Start a log of his behavior if he continues to help you get a restraining order.

 

Stalking is hard to prove, the log helps to show a pattern of behavior for the police, from what you wrote you have a romantic stalker, I'm a stalking expert, PM if you have any questions.

[Ms Darcy]

I disagree with the first two posters somewhat, because this is a potentially very serious situation. He has already been told to back off and yet he's hovering around you. It is entirely possible that he is indeed a stalker. Getting your home address and invading your personal space is very scary.

 

1. Do not speak to him. That will encourage him and make him feel like he's getting personal attention from you.

 

2. You need to go to authorities. Ask your group leader to talk to him again; tell him what's happened and how it makes you feel. Ask your group leader if he can arrange a police authority to speak with him as well.

 

3. Keep a log. If it continues, you need to have evidence of what has been happening so that you can file a restraining order.

 

This is very serious. It's almost a mirror of a celebrity stalking case I heard a few years ago. People should respect your boundaries and space, no matter how they feel about you.

[Celadon]

Thanks, you guys. I was trying to keep my OP brief, but I should add that he did ask me out several years ago and I turned him down nicely but firmly. I said I respected him but would never ever date him.

 

I've done everything I can to convey my complete disinterest in him. I never talked to him at length before, nor even talked to him as a friendly acquaintance would. He used to try to talk with me, or hang around groups where I was talking with people. But after my group leader told him to stay away from me, I have not spoken a word to him in more than a year. But I've sensed him hovering from time to time.

 

He's violating my boundaries and unable/unwilling to control himself.

[In the Dark]

Looks like this guy is hoping you have had a change of heart.

 

You need to give him a face to face update and tell him what things he is doing which creeps you out.

 

Hinting sometimes/most the time, does not get the point accross.

 

I would also talk to him in private.

 

Not the whole, in front of everyone thing.

It will just make him resent you and that will be another can of worms.

 

I'd also be set to have your knee coming in contact with groin, just in case.

 

As we all know, women like confident men, this guy appears to be one of them but in a creepy manner.

 

Of course he will not be okay with what you will say but it still needs to be said.

[Ms Darcy]

Please do not speak with him in private. You will teach him that violating your boundaries gets him personal attention from and time with you.

[Celadon]

Thanks, In the Dark.

 

I'd also be set to have your knee coming in contact with groin, just in case.

 

As we all know, women like confident men, this guy appears to be one of them but in a creepy manner.

 

Of course he will not be okay with what you will say but it still needs to be said.

Personally, I was going to come with numchuks, but I guess my knee would do too.

 

I actually don't view him as confident at all. Anyone who can't control himself or respect another person's boundaries is acting like a loser. It's not about a man pursuing the woman he likes. It's about a man being so desperate that instead of going out there and confidently dating a range of women, he's fantasizing about one person for years, completely denying the reality that she's already told him she'd never be interested in him and her actions are consistent with her words. And, she even had to bring in someone in authority to tell him his actions are harassment because he's so lacking in self-awareness that he couldn't figure that out himself. That's not confidence. That's something else entirely.

 

Anyway, I appreciate the advice. You're right. He's not going to like it. Now he's going to know how it feels.

[Ms Darcy]

As we all know, women like confident men, this guy appears to be one of them but in a creepy manner.

 

I know for whatever reason, people don't really take this behavior as anything more than creepy confidence, but only you know how much this bothers you and how this can graduate into something more serious. Keep doing what you are doing and ignore him.

 

I hope you stay safe.

[Celadon]

Please do not speak with him in private. You will teach him that violating your boundaries gets him personal attention from and time with you.

Well, yeah, that's what I was wondering about. What does the stalker want? (Besides to own the person they're obsessing about.) It's freaky. I think I'm going to contact the group leader again, as much as I hate to bother him.

[Ms Darcy]

I actually don't view him as confident at all. Anyone who can't control himself or respect another person's boundaries is acting like a loser. It's not about a man pursuing the woman he likes. It's about a man being so desperate that instead of going out there and confidently dating a range of women, he's fantasizing about one person for years, completely denying the reality that she's already told him she'd never be interested in him and her actions are consistent with her words. And, she even had to bring in someone in authority to tell him his actions are harassment because he's so lacking in self-awareness that he couldn't figure that out himself. That's not confidence. That's something else entirely.

 

You clearly have a good head on your shoulders to understand that this is not about innocent attraction and more about unhealthy fixation. I don't like that he's been this way for years. Even after rejection, he cannot move on.

[Ms Darcy]

Well, yeah, that's what I was wondering about. What does the stalker want? (Besides to own the person they're obsessing about.) It's freaky. I think I'm going to contact the group leader again, as much as I hate to bother him.

 

Hon, he wanted your address. He was trying to violate your privacy. And now, he's disturbing your physical boundaries. You are not bother the group leader ... he is.

[Celadon]

Thank you for understanding, Ms Darcy. I'm particularly sensitive to other peoples' behavior, unfortunately, and this kind of thing just makes me freak out. It really, really bugs me. But I don't want to let on that it does in front of John because then he'll be encouraged ("any attention, even bad attention, is attention" as the saying goes).

 

I can't control anyone else, and it's hard to know what will keep this from escalating. Even more ideally, what would stop him permanently.

[Celadon]

Hon, he wanted your address. He was trying to violate your privacy. And now, he's disturbing your physical boundaries. You are not bother the group leader ... he is.

Yes, you're right. I needed to hear that ...

[catfeeder]

If you plan on leaving the group, doesn't that solve the problem?

 

If this guy is potentially dangerous, I wouldn't make humiliating him a priority--I'd leave quietly with as little fanfare as possible.

[annie24]

i've actually filed stalking papers against a guy i used to know.

 

when the police came, they did ask me to cite all of the instances of the stalking behavior, what/where/when, and if i had ever told him to his face to leave him alone. they also asked me if i felt physically threatened by him. they asked me to cite everything, including what he said, what was his tone, what was his mannerism, how did i respond, did i have any physical proof, etc.

 

these sorts of things are something to keep in mind should you go to the police.

 

no offense to you, i'm just saying, i don't see yet what this guy has done 'concretely wrong.' the fact that you get a weird vibe off of him is a good enough reason to avoid him. but one thing that the police told me in my case was that 1 - yes, the guy was creepy, but 2 - probably was interested in dating me, but didn't know how to do it in a normal way like most men.

 

let's face it - hollywood movies portray the guy who keep pursing his woman for years until she comes around (Twilight and New Moon anyone?) Obviously, i don't know your situation, and you should listen to your gut. I'm just telling you what sorts of things the police will ask.

[Celadon]

If you plan on leaving the group, doesn't that solve the problem?

 

If this guy is potentially dangerous, I wouldn't make humiliating him a priority--I'd leave quietly with as little fanfare as possible.

Well, that's something I'm considering, catfeeder. Will slipping off quietly be better than setting someone straight (and then slipping off quietly)? I don't really consider it humiliating someone to tell him to back off; I'm not sure where you're getting that, unless it's from my flip remark a few posts ago about him knowing how it feels. If so, please don't take that seriously.

 

Some people's behavior warrants a firm response. We're not talking public rebuke or mockery. It would be a private meeting in which he's told that his unacceptable behavior is unacceptable and why. He clearly doesn't understand and he's apt to repeat it with someone else later on.

 

I do see what you're saying about cutting losses. I think we'll have to agree that, as we've seen in previous thread discussions between us, I tend to lean towards setting things straight while you lean towards getting out without making waves. I'm happy for us to have different viewpoints.

 

As for the danger, that's really the issue, isn't it? It's hard to predict what someone will do or won't do.

 

i've actually filed stalking papers against a guy i used to know.

 

when the police came, they did ask me to cite all of the instances of the stalking behavior, what/where/when, and if i had ever told him to his face to leave him alone. they also asked me if i felt physically threatened by him. they asked me to cite everything, including what he said, what was his tone, what was his mannerism, how did i respond, did i have any physical proof, etc.

 

these sorts of things are something to keep in mind should you go to the police.

 

no offense to you, i'm just saying, i don't see yet what this guy has done 'concretely wrong.' the fact that you get a weird vibe off of him is a good enough reason to avoid him. but one thing that the police told me in my case was that 1 - yes, the guy was creepy, but 2 - probably was interested in dating me, but didn't know how to do it in a normal way like most men.

 

let's face it - hollywood movies portray the guy who keep pursing his woman for years until she comes around (Twilight and New Moon anyone?) Obviously, i don't know your situation, and you should listen to your gut. I'm just telling you what sorts of things the police will ask.

Sorry you had to go through that, Annie. I appreciate your outlining the police process. So did he eventually leave you alone?

 

Yeah, I've had the sense that I wouldn't have convincing evidence to show police. I mean, it's evident to me what his actions show -- an intent to get attention from me or find out information about me when he's already been told to back off.

 

But this guy hasn't done anything to suggest he's a waiting-in-the-shadows kidnapper. Has he called my phone repeatedly just to hear my voicemail? Maybe. Has he driven past my workplace to see if I was there? Maybe, I don't know.

 

The thing about these situations is that you never know what strange delusion someone has in his head. All I know is he's crossed the line repeatedly and can't be trusted. I think it might be wise to let him know he doesn't have the freedom to approach me without consequence. Do it now before he feels he can get away with something more serious.

 

ETA: Annie, I'm really curious about what the police said to you, that the guy who was stalking you was creepy but interested in you. I can understand that being the case in general with inexperienced men, to a certain degree, that they don't know how to approach a woman. But OTOH, I also find it frightening that a man's (or woman's) behavior can be equated with affection when it's just the opposite. OK, well, not "the opposite" but if someone's been told to go away, I just wonder if disrespecting someone's wishes is really "love."

[annie24]

yes, actually! once the police got involved, he stayed away. so, that was good.

 

well, the most important thing is that your gut feeling is saying that something is off about him. was it the group leader who told him to leave you alone before? maybe he didn't do a good job of getting the point accross. i don't know.

[Celadon]

yes, actually! once the police got involved, he stayed away. so, that was good.

 

well, the most important thing is that your gut feeling is saying that something is off about him. was it the group leader who told him to leave you alone before? maybe he didn't do a good job of getting the point accross. i don't know.

That's great, Annie. I'm glad he stopped bothering you. It sounds like it was an ordeal. Maybe the fact that he stayed away shows that some guys just need to be threatened with enough "consequence" and they'll change or give up.

 

Yeah, in my case, the group leader isn't a really confrontational kind of guy, but I think he did OK with John. He actually had to talk with John twice, because John emailed me immediately after the first talk, which was completely against what he'd just been told.

 

I think this "resurgence" is because John is just a sad, desperate man who is unwilling to grasp reality and therefore keeps repeating patterns of behavior.

[Ms Darcy]

Yeah, in my case, the group leader isn't a really confrontational kind of guy, but I think he did OK with John. He actually had to talk with John twice, because John emailed me immediately after the first talk, which was completely against what he'd just been told.

 

I think this "resurgence" is because John is just a sad, desperate man who is unwilling to grasp reality and therefore keeps repeating patterns of behavior.

 

What did "John" say in his email to you (a long time ago) and what did he say in response to your group leader?

[catfeeder]

[...] I do see what you're saying about cutting losses. I think we'll have to agree that, as we've seen in previous thread discussions between us, I tend to lean towards setting things straight while you lean towards getting out without making waves. I'm happy for us to have different viewpoints.

 

I have zero problem with setting someone straight--if it's productive. In your case, since you're already leaving the group, what do you hope to accomplish by telling the guy he can't behave in certain ways around you when you're not even going to be there to offend? What are you going to call him out on, exactly--standing too close to you in the cafeteria line? What would be an acceptable response to that, and how comfortable would you feel going forward that you haven't just called more attention to yourself from a now-very embarrassed and resentful stalker guy?

 

It's not that I don't get creepy, and I really am sorry you had to go through that. I do understand the emotional part of this, yet I'm being practical: if you're going to leave the group, then leave it, but it makes no sense to go back there just to have a face-off with a creepy guy. Unless you want to provoke him?

[Jadewhisper]

I recommend reading the Gift of Fear. It has some good insight and suggestions to your similar situation. Your intuition is going off for a reason. Don't ignore it. Be extra careful and be more aware of your surroundings.

[annie24]

I recommend reading the Gift of Fear. It has some good insight and suggestions to your similar situation. Your intuition is going off for a reason. Don't ignore it. Be extra careful and be more aware of your surroundings.

 

totally agree. great book.

[Celadon]

What did "John" say in his email to you (a long time ago) and what did he say in response to your group leader?

It was an apology/excuse for what had happened, sort of (You know how people say they're sorry but they're more trying to get you to feel sorry for *them*?). More than that, it was clearly an attempt to get attention from me after that "right" had been taken away from him.

 

I don't know what my group leader said the second time, but he seemed irked that John had immediately done exactly the opposite of what he (leader) had instructed.