I'm Asian, my caucasian bf keeps making asian stereotype jokes

[Lamour detruit]

I think many people are far too sensitive for their own good these days. One can not kid around with the people they are comfortable with, without being called a racist. I believe everything could use a bit of humor, and I have no problem with jokes regarding stereotypes,or jokes regarding everything for that matter. Of course, with that said, there is a time and place for everything. Clearly you're not gonna be throwing racist jokes at someone without knowing them, or without knowing how they feel about it. If all the people feel comfortable with it, I don't see anything wrong with it. As always, there are shades of grey. As implied by draganov, and greywolf and cognative, some people love those types of jokes, and I don't think telling telling racially based jokes and being a racist is the same thing either.

 

However, to discuss the original poster..clearly,if she is not comfortable with it, the guy needs to tone it down. its all fun and games, until someone grows tired of it, and then he needs to take the lesson, and learn when to put it to a hold.

[Dragunov-21]

Are you trying to say that it's ok to make jokes about certain races and not others?

 

Also, I used the word 'gay' all the time.

 

You've got to admit, there are some races that have are more likely to get actually offended than others, and not without reason. Some issues are fresher, more serious, or more raw than others.

 

It' not about the race, but the relative seriousness (ie, likelihood of it being taken badly) of the joke in question.

[Unknown1607307972]

you also have to use your common sense. Some groups are the butt of cruel jokes on a regular basis. I don't think that includes the Danish, so its not as bad especially in the right context and crowd. But you need to be more careful around say gay friends, mexican friends, indian friends,pakistani, arabs or blacks. Because dangerous and hurtful stereotypes are par for course, you have a lot less room to poke fun without it being misconstrued. And honestly sometimes it isnt' misconstrued, just because you don't mean to go all gestapo with the little comment or joke that you made doesnt mean that it isnt' harmful. Actually more harmful because people don't pay it any mind. The terms "thats so gay" or "thats so ghetto" piss me off royally more than any real racist term because it is so common and accepted.

 

But why do people take "gay" so seriously? (I am using "gay" as an example)

 

My favourite thing to say here, is that if "gay" is such a serious matter than we shouldn't be allowed to use the word "bastard". I'm a "bastard" child, and they were discriminated against by law and society, yet now when people use the word they don't think about the meaning behind it do they? Neither do many people who use the term "gay" in that sense. Of course homophobia is still a problem, and I don't agree with the *serious* putting down of homosexuality, but the fact is whenever I use the word it's not actually against gays but rather more so parodying the people who do are homophobic.

 

So if "gay" is wrong then don't use the word "bastard", else I'm going to cry and get offended

 

And also, the Irish were extremely discriminated against by the British yet my mum's Irish friend found the jokes hilarious (and yes, she's from southern Ireland). It depends more so on the people themselves and how seriously they take these kinds of jokes.

[MakestheBest]

Are you trying to say that it's ok to make jokes about certain races and not others?

 

Also, I used the word 'gay' all the time

.

There is really no way of getting around that message. That is what you are inadvertantly saying.

 

You are passing along message that gays and their behavior is "bad" and all the bad things in the world are just like them. It's not like you're saying 'gay' as in happy. you are saying "gay" as in that sucks.

 

I had been saying that term so much for years that it took a long time for me to clear it out of my language, but now that i know what I was saying i think its the most horrible ways to pass a message because the person passing that message on doesnt even get that they are doing it.

 

Just because people laugh at something doesnt make it funny.

[MakestheBest]

Hey lady...okay in response to your question let me put it in this context.

 

You are not very sensitive to being called a bastard even though thats what you are because being a bastard doesnt have the same connotations as it used to. If you were born in 1600s and you were labeled as a bastard then you could been constantly treated with scorn, seen as unacceptable to marry, not been able to work certain jobs, not been able to inherit your fathers property, you basically would have been denied a lot of human rights...and i'm sure you would have been very ashamed of yourself. So you being a bastard now isn't a big deal, if you had been a bastard BACK THEN I don't think any joke you heard would have rolled over that easily.

 

Gay people TODAY have to suffer a lot, a lot of them are denied by their families, they feel uncomfortable in certain situations, they were tortured horribly in school, a lot of them still get randomly physically attacked, denied jobs and are treated with scorn. So after dealing with all of that on a regular basis, the jokes aren't so easy to deal with

 

( and for god sakes-anybody reading this- PLEASE don't bring up your one gay friend who laughed at one gay joke and think thats a pass that all jokes are acceptable. I'm sure all gays dont think alike).

 

Think of it also in this way...why is calling a woman "b*tch" such a horrible thing but calling a man a "dog" is not a big deal...because one group is oppressed and the other group isn't.

 

Just because you know that you probably wouldnt bat an eye if someone makes a "straight" joke doesnt give a person the right to think its okay to make a "gay" joke.

No one gets their asses beaten for being straight.

 

You need to look at the context, the times and the world around you before you make a comment. I hope that makes more sense

[Taikero]

Think of it also in this way...why is calling a woman "b*tch" such a horrible thing but calling a man a "dog" is not a big deal...because one group is oppressed and the other group isn't.

 

Aside whatever views on oppression there might be, I wouldn't say that any of that plays into the difference in the acceptance of such name-calling in this specific example.

 

The difference is that men aren't in denial and will be up front about their intentions (to be dog-like in their actions) whereas women don't like to be thought of that way even if they are.

 

The two words mean entirely different things, hence their difference in social acceptance. Calling a guy a "dog" because he wants sex a lot and isn't after anything serious (often true of men) is a far cry from calling a woman a b*tch because she's being a generally undesirable person to be around (to put it nicely).

[MakestheBest]

Aside whatever views on oppression there might be, I wouldn't say that any of that plays into the difference in the acceptance of such name-calling in this specific example.

 

The difference is that men aren't in denial and will be up front about their intentions (to be dog-like in their actions) whereas women don't like to be thought of that way even if they are.

 

The two words mean entirely different things, hence their difference in social acceptance. Calling a guy a "dog" because he wants sex a lot and isn't after anything serious (often true of men) is a far cry from calling a woman a b*tch because she's being a generally undesirable person to be around (to put it nicely).

you have a point, in that case I'll revise to "b*tch" vs "jerk". The work jerk is used almost exclusively for men but it holds almost none of the water that b*tch does...why do I need to keep using an asterix for b*tch?

[Taikero]

you have a point, in that case I'll revise to "b*tch" vs "jerk". The work jerk is used almost exclusively for men but it holds almost none of the water that b*tch does...why do I need to keep using an asterix for b*tch?

 

Because the jerks accepted what they were and picked their own word whereas the b*tches didn't accept what they were and got labeled. Then they got huffy about the label and b*tched until it was considered a taboo word.

 

As I said before, it's a difference between the way men and women handle situations in general. Men accept and even embrace being considered a bad person (unless they have a public persona, such as a political position, to protect), whereas women will be bad people yet do their best to hide it and deny it.

[Ellie2006]

Because the jerks accepted what they were and picked their own word whereas the b*tches didn't accept what they were and got labeled. Then they got huffy about the label and b*tched until it was considered a taboo word.

 

As I said before, it's a difference between the way men and women handle situations in general. Men accept and even embrace being considered a bad person (unless they have a public persona, such as a political position, to protect), whereas women will be bad people yet do their best to hide it and deny it.

 

What the heck do you mean by this? Women dont have public personas? Women conceal and men embrace their vice? I think you're taking your generalization too far. Plus how is this even relevant to the original post (which has been resolved, by the way)??

 

Also, maybe you dont mind being called a "dog" BUT that doesnt mean other men "accept and embrace" it because men are just "built that way," according to you.

 

For example, there have been numerous threads (here in ENA) where female posters said things like "all men are cheaters," "all men are dogs," and male posters protested VERY loudly to being labeled as such. Not because these labels may or may not have "positive" attributes tied to them, because they did NOT want to be labeled, period.

 

I agree with the poster who said above that just because people laugh, it doesnt mean what the joke is funny. at all.

 

People keep saying, oh lighten up, dont take things so seriously but why should you take something like this NOT seriously? It IS a serious matter.

Stereotypes are akin to verbal abuse. Just bc the person said it "as a joke," you CANNOT simply untie these words/phrases from the historical/social/political context which makes them so problematic.

 

Am I saying that one shouldn't joke, ever? No, of course not. All I'm saying is be aware of what you're saying and that your words may have the potential to cut people down.

[Cognitive_Canine]

My boyfriend would be quite ticked off if someone called him a "dog".

 

I think the OP has every right and reason to not find her boyfriend's jokes funny, but I don't think making these jokes make someone automatically racist or insensitive. It's all about knowing your audience and knowing when it's not funny anymore.

[Ellie2006]

It's all about knowing your audience and knowing when it's not funny anymore.

 

^^^^^ Exactly!

[Taikero]

Women dont have public personas?

 

That's not what I said at all. I was implying that men will as a general rule only try to cover up their undesirable activity or deny it when it has an effect on their workplace advancement (e.g. money), and using a political example was the easiest way to make that point.

 

See: Any politician ever involved in a sex scandal.

 

Another possibility here is if the jerk image hurts a guy's chances with some woman he's interested in. Then he might try to hide the traits that make him a jerk, at least for a while.

 

Women conceal and men embrace their vice?

 

Yes, by and large this has been my experience both personally and from most of what I see on the internet and the media.

 

It also doesn't necessarily have to do with vices. It has to do with publicly (as opposed to privately) acknowledging and taking responsibility for the crappy things done to others. Jerks (guys) generally openly brag and get all "macho" about their jerk-like accomplishments, whereas b*tches generally will deny or excuse their behavior.

 

Yes, I'm making generalizations, but when you see something repeated over and over at some point you have to start expecting the same result.

 

Plus how is this even relevant to the original post (which has been resolved, by the way)??

 

It's not relevant to Asian stereotypes specifically and therefore we see ourselves in a tangent.

 

Also, maybe you dont mind being called a "dog" BUT that doesnt mean other men "accept and embrace" it because men are just "built that way," according to you.

 

We are built that way. Testosterone vs. Estrogen. Mars vs. Venus.

 

For example, there have been numerous threads (here in ENA) where female posters said things like "all men are cheaters," "all men are dogs," and male posters protested VERY loudly to being labeled as such. Not because these labels may or may not have "positive" attributes tied to them, because they did NOT want to be labeled, period.

 

It's unfair to label all members of any group in such a way. This is why I was only addressing those people who DO truly fall into these categories. I don't think all women are b*tches, nor do I think all men are jerks or dogs. My point is specifically addressing the reactionary behavior of those who could be fairly labeled that way because of their actions.

 

I agree with the poster who said above that just because people laugh, it doesnt mean what the joke is funny. at all.

 

People keep saying, oh lighten up, dont take things so seriously but why should you take something like this NOT seriously? It IS a serious matter.

Stereotypes are akin to verbal abuse. Just bc the person said it "as a joke," you CANNOT simply untie these words/phrases from the historical/social/political context which makes them so problematic.

 

Am I saying that one shouldn't joke, ever? No, of course not. All I'm saying is be aware of what you're saying and that your words may have the potential to cut people down.

 

Of course words can cut people down.

 

That doesn't mean racial stereotypes are necessarily devoid of humor. Stereotypes exist in general because people naturally look for ways to identify and group things. The easiest way to do that with someone who is of a different culture or race is to specifically pull out the idiosyncrasies that culture/race exhibits so at a later time it's easier to recognize, "Oh, that person is Asian because they exhibit X, Y, and Z traits."

 

Some stereotypes are funny. Others aren't so much. I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with them or jokes about them, and I really think it's rather easy to tell the difference between someone making a joke and someone who's racist. At least, I've never had much trouble differentiating between the two.

[MakestheBest]

That's not what I said at all. I was implying that men will as a general rule only try to cover up their undesirable activity or deny it when it has an effect on their workplace advancement (e.g. money), and using a political example was the easiest way to make that point.

 

Come On, Babes. Are you saying teenage boys dont lie to their parents? boys don't lie to their teachers? football players don't lie to their coaches? Men don't lie to their wives? Hell, their kids? They never lie or brag untruths to their friends? And all the women on here who claim that their boyfriends cheated and lied about it are making things up?

 

Look I'd love to sign onto your whole " men are so focused and purposeful and they are all about their money ( re: money over hoe's ) theory. But you have to know thats a load of dog sh*t right? yes I said dog, fellas whut? lmao

[Ellie2006]

That's not what I said at all. I was implying that men will as a general rule only try to cover up their undesirable activity or deny it when it has an effect on their workplace advancement (e.g. money), and using a political example was the easiest way to make that point.

 

says you. what, only male politicians caught in a sex scandal lie?

according to you, no man on the face of this earth has ever lied, EXCEPT when it comes to their profession. according to you, men, in general, do not lie about things affecting only their personal life. So are you actually saying that men never lie to their friends, men never lie to their wives or their girlfriends? wow.

 

 

 

Another possibility here is if the jerk image hurts a guy's chances with some woman he's interested in. Then he might try to hide the traits that make him a jerk, at least for a while.

 

This complete discredits what you said above.

 

 

Yes, by and large this has been my experience both personally and from most of what I see on the internet and the media.

 

Well, I'd like to live in your version of the world where men apparently hardly lie about anything at all, except about things involved with their jobs.

 

 

It also doesn't necessarily have to do with vices. It has to do with publicly (as opposed to privately) acknowledging and taking responsibility for the crappy things done to others. Jerks (guys) generally openly brag and get all "macho" about their jerk-like accomplishments, whereas b*tches generally will deny or excuse their behavior.

 

Who are these "b*tches" that you keep referring to? Are you indicating a specific group of women OR are you referring to all women in general?

 

 

Yes, I'm making generalizations, but when you see something repeated over and over at some point you have to start expecting the same result.

 

So you do acknowledge that you are MAKING THE MISTAKE of generalization and applying wholesale your skewed and limited definition/understanding women and men?

 

 

 

We are built that way. Testosterone vs. Estrogen. Mars vs. Venus.

 

again, says you. actually there are just as many scientific and psychological studies which conclude that women and men have more similarities than they have differences.

 

 

 

Of course words can cut people down.

 

That doesn't mean racial stereotypes are necessarily devoid of humor. Stereotypes exist in general because people naturally look for ways to identify and group things. The easiest way to do that with someone who is of a different culture or race is to specifically pull out the idiosyncrasies that culture/race exhibits so at a later time it's easier to recognize, "Oh, that person is Asian because they exhibit X, Y, and Z traits."

 

yes, you have the definition of stereotypes" correctly. the easiest does not mean it's right. it's a "convenient" way to categorize but the problem stems from the fact that certain people start to believe that those characteristics are the ONLY aspects of a multi-faceted individual. people are not cardboard cutouts.

 

Some stereotypes are funny. Others aren't so much. I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with them or jokes about them, and I really think it's rather easy to tell the difference between someone making a joke and someone who's racist. At least, I've never had much trouble differentiating between the two.

 

good for you.

[Taikero]

says you. what, only male politicians caught in a sex scandal lie?

according to you, no man on the face of this earth has ever lied, EXCEPT when it comes to their profession. according to you, men, in general, do not lie about things affecting only their personal life. So are you actually saying that men never lie to their friends, men never lie to their wives or their girlfriends? wow.

 

Well, I'd like to live in your version of the world where men apparently hardly lie about anything at all, except about things involved with their jobs.

 

So you do acknowledge that you are MAKING THE MISTAKE of generalization and applying wholesale your skewed and limited definition/understanding women and men?

 

I am making generalizations based on the differences between how men and women act when called out on unsavory behavior.

 

I never said that men don't lie, more that they are far more likely to own up to things they have done which might reflect on them poorly in their social group.

 

Who are these "b*tches" that you keep referring to? Are you indicating a specific group of women OR are you referring to all women in general?

 

A specific group of women and a specific group of men (the jerks) is who I am referring to. I don't believe by any stretch that all men or women fall into these categories.

 

again, says you. actually there are just as many scientific and psychological studies which conclude that women and men have more similarities than they have differences.

 

I contend in this context that the hormonal differences as well as general socially different structures between the sexes plays a huge role in why they react differently to such accusation/labeling assuming they are actually guilty of the behavior they're accused of.

 

yes, you have the definition of stereotypes" correctly. the easiest does not mean it's right. it's a "convenient" way to categorize but the problem stems from the fact that certain people start to believe that those characteristics are the ONLY aspects of a multi-faceted individual. people are not cardboard cutouts.

 

The reason why we need that convenience in society is we don't have the time to get to know every facet of every individual. When decisions are made based on the very basic "fight or flight" principle, stereotypes can help make that type of decision quickly as well as affect how that decision is carried out, whether it's to joke, turn away, approach with a smile, or otherwise.

 

Maybe it would be better to not become so offended at the use of a stereotype and allow the other person to get to know you instead? If they're really not racist and merely making a joke, if they learn more about you and your culture they might come to an appreciation of it and respect it. They might still make jokes about it, but they might not. Respect between cultures is earned not by demanding it, but by mutual acceptance of each others' differences and a realization of the many similarities they share. Easier said than done, obviously.

[MakestheBest]

I never said that men don't lie, more that they are far more likely to own up to things they have done which might reflect on them poorly in their social group.

 

thats absolutely ridiculous and i'm saying this with a warm smile.

 

The reason why we need that convenience in society is we don't have the time to get to know every facet of every individual. When decisions are made based on the very basic "fight or flight" principle, stereotypes can help make that type of decision quickly as well as affect how that decision is carried out, whether it's to joke, turn away, approach with a smile, or otherwise.

 

I've actually threw up this exact same theory years ago on the topic of 'snap judgements' and I wholeheartedly agree. But this only works well on individuals not on groups which is what stereotypes are designed for. How would you apply it?:

" I didn't get into the cab with that korean woman driver...because you know how they are." or " I saw that dominican guy turn the corner and I took my watch and ring off" or " Man I wouldn't load that surfer any money if I were you".

 

what on earth.

 

 

Taikero you sound like a chauvinist. I'm sure you've heard that before tho. People your age oftentimes ascribe to generalized theories while they struggle to understand the opposite sex and the world around them. Here is hoping that you grow out of it!

[Taikero]

thats absolutely ridiculous and i'm saying this with a warm smile.

 

Then tell me why if I call a guy out on being a jerk he'll probably just shrug it off and say, "So?"

 

Whereas if a girl gets called out by one of her girls she'll try to smooth the situation over and paint it as if she'd done nothing wrong?

 

I grant you I'm detailing the extremes here but I think it helps illustrate my point better.

 

 

I've actually threw up this exact same theory years ago on the topic of 'snap judgements' and I wholeheartedly agree. But this only works well on individuals not on groups which is what stereotypes are designed for. How would you apply it?:

" I didn't get into the cab with that korean woman driver...because you know how they are." or " I saw that dominican guy turn the corner and I took my watch and ring off" or " Man I wouldn't load that surfer any money if I were you".

 

what on earth.

 

Stereotypes are useful for both groups and individuals and they can save you in social situations. I don't see how they are necessarily evil or wrong all the time, and not all stereotypes are negative. You certainly wouldn't want to meet someone from India and immediately think, "Let's go grab a double cheeseburger!" because you're probably going to offend the crap out of them. Yes, you're stereotyping ("They're Hindu and probably think cows are sacred."), but maybe stick with something less likely to offend until you get to know them better.

 

 

Taikero you sound like a chauvinist. I'm sure you've heard that before tho. People your age oftentimes ascribe to generalized theories while they struggle to understand the opposite sex and the world around them. Here is hoping that you grow out of it!

 

I think quite highly of women, actually, but feel free to tell me to get off your lawn anytime! I always forget not to walk on the grass, I'm so young and naive.

 

Because I took a controversial viewpoint which incidentally included some women in it as deceptive doesn't mean I'm a chauvinist. I have an opinion about a certain subset of both men and women with personality traits that might get them labeled respectively as jerks or b*tches. They're both still types of people I would not want to associate with, so it really doesn't matter to me whether they hide it or not. It is simply my observation that for the most part there is a distinct difference in the way they act if called out on their behavior. Neither way is superior, as sometimes being completely upfront about your crappy behavior can get you into a much worse situation than if you'd been a little deceptive. I am not trying to say here that either side is better than the other, because in this scenario either side sucks!

[greywolf]

You are passing along message that gays and their behavior is "bad" and all the bad things in the world are just like them. It's not like you're saying 'gay' as in happy. you are saying "gay" as in that sucks.

 

I had been saying that term so much for years that it took a long time for me to clear it out of my language, but now that i know what I was saying i think its the most horrible ways to pass a message because the person passing that message on doesnt even get that they are doing it.

.

 

Should we stop using the words 'sucks' and 'blows' then? They clearly started off as sexual insults. However, it doesn't offend anyone that performs felatio.

 

 

Gay people TODAY have to suffer a lot, a lot of them are denied by their families, they feel uncomfortable in certain situations, they were tortured horribly in school, a lot of them still get randomly physically attacked, denied jobs and are treated with scorn. So after dealing with all of that on a regular basis, the jokes aren't so easy to deal with

 

 

I do know some of the things gay people have to go through. It doesn't mean I'm going to tiptoe around them, and I hate it when people do that to me.

[MakestheBest]

Then tell me why if I call a guy out on being a jerk he'll probably just shrug it off and say, "So?"

 

Whereas if a girl gets called out by one of her girls she'll try to smooth the situation over and paint it as if she'd done nothing wrong?

 

I grant you I'm detailing the extremes here but I think it helps illustrate my point better.

 

 

This is a hard question to answer. I've never really noticed something like this to be true. So I wouldnt say women " smooth things over". I've noticed that women talk more if something bothers them in order to work things out, and also they tend to be more open about saying if something bothers them. Thats one scenario.

 

You certainly wouldn't want to meet someone from India and immediately think, "Let's go grab a double cheeseburger!"

My indian ex-bf would tear into a beef quesadilla sideways if you offered one to him. lol. But I dont think wondering or asking someone if they are hindu because they're indian is stereotypical. Because its based in fact. I'd have to look up the definition of stereotype but I'm under the impression that it is a generalization that is based on public opinion not fact. I'm sure if we looked it up there are numbers to back up the chance of a new indian immigrant having a high probability of being hindu.

 

I think quite highly of women, actually, but feel free to tell me to get off your lawn anytime! I always forget not to walk on the grass, I'm so young and naive.

 

lol... you're cute. Feel free to take your shoes off and do carwheels on my lawn. Everyone is welcome.

[MakestheBest]

Should we stop using the words 'sucks' and 'blows' then? They clearly started off as sexual insults. However, it doesn't offend anyone that performs felatio.

 

hmm you know something. I didn't think of it that way. As a woman who gives head i think I am insulted. I'm going to stop using that word, and I ask all fellow head-givers to stand with me in solidarity. We should start a Meetup group.

 

I do know some of the things gay people have to go through. It doesn't mean I'm going to tiptoe around them, and I hate it when people do that to me.

 

I mean thats cool. As I said, do what you feel, but what you can take and what others can take are two different things.

[Cognitive_Canine]

I'm going to stop using the word 'semester' as that is clearly masculine and shows that men dictate the time schedule in this world.

[mattj]

I'm going to stop using the word 'semester' as that is clearly masculine and shows that men dictate the time schedule in this world.

 

In french it is masculine, but i think i'm missing a joke.

[Cognitive_Canine]

In french it is masculine, but i think i'm missing a joke.

 

Semester = semen.

[annie24]

this thread has run its course