Why is the UK obsessed with drinking?

[civilservant]

Put simply, if alcohol was invented today, it'd be banned as a Class A drug in the same level as Heroin and Cocaine because it can and does damage your live and other people, and the cost to the public purse is enormous, much greater than the income derived from it in long term treatments for liver failure and related illnesses...

[Clarity]

I don't drink, but don't think there's anything wrong with the occasional drink. I think getting drunk is foolish and embarrassing, but it's also built into the culture, especially in western societies. What I have noticed in Western cultures is that it has become a social crutch for the majority of the young population. Neither men nor women are secure enough to become uninhibited without a drink or two and it's rarely the chemical effects that do it, it's just that they've been socially programmed that that is the only situation in which they can "let loose".

 

I'm lucky to have a mature enough group of friends who can have fun in any situation, but I remember some times in school when the mere suggestion of doing something "fun" that didn't involve alcohol came up, some people's eyebrows would raise. I have nothing but pity for those people.

[Cognitive_Canine]

Put simply, if alcohol was invented today, it'd be banned as a Class A drug in the same level as Heroin and Cocaine because it can and does damage your live and other people, and the cost to the public purse is enormous, much greater than the income derived from it in long term treatments for liver failure and related illnesses...

 

A large part of alcohol's appeal is that it wasn't invented today but is hardwired into the culture. I worked in an Irish pub and that's the kind of environment that I find appealing. Alcoholism has never been a problem in my family and I know many people who brew their own beer. My boyfriend's father is the largest brewer in our county. haha.

 

When people are brought up in a culture in which alcohol is present and unrestricted when young, they are less likely to develop alcohol problems when compared to a culture that restricts use until they are adults.

 

I believe people should be allowed to pick their poison as long as they are aware of the consequence. Although I do not smoke and rarely drink, I do think that others should be allowed to do that. Just like I think people should be allowed to eat bacon and drink soda.

[dazed_83]

Why are we obsessed with drinking?

 

because life is so bloody depressing here right now. I tend to go out on a saturday and get pretty p1ssed, the only other time i drink is maybe when the football is on.

 

Some people drink because they work long hours and just want to cut loose at the weekend, and that's their business. I think the media over hype the problem in the UK, and blaming the price of booze in supermarkets is a joke. Go to any country in Europe and you are pretty much guaranteed the booze is cheaper there. And they dont have the same problems we do. There is a deeper more underlying reason why we drink like we do, and its not because of the price of the alcohol.

[Speranza]

My daughter has a theory that we are showing our genetic origins (ie drinking, pillaging invaders!) - perhaps she has a point, if an un-PC one.

 

I work with kids of 13 (and younger) who tell me quite honestly that they only get through the week at school by thinking about getting drunk at the weekend. A lot of them get the drink from their parents.

 

Our two always had a sip of our drink if they wanted (they usually didn't). There was no mystique, no need to do it to rebel, no interest in being a drooling, vomiting idiot.

 

 

[jettison]

The other side of that coin would be; defending alcohol consumption is to make rationalizations for addictive or unhealthy behavior. To say alcohol has no detrimental effects is to constuct a defense on the behalf of the drinker.

It's amazing how many strawmans one must defend against in a debate sometimes. Show me where anyone said, "alcohol has no detrimental effects." It was never said, nor would it ever be said. So, arguing this point, one I don't believe in to begin with, would be a collosal waste of time.

 

Similarly, I could argue that "lots of people grow up to be bad people, and bad people start out as babies. Therefore, you shouldn't have babies because it's dangerous."

 

It's about as significant. Alcohol can be abused, just like anything else at all. Put it in incapable hands, and it will become a problem... just like anything at all.

 

I have friends whose entire lives have been changed by their consumption of alcohol and it wasn't all pretty scenery and beautiful artistry. It was far from it.

There isn't anyone who can't say this.

 

To say "alchohol is not bad" is patently untrue. Lots of things are unhealthy. Eating junk, being lazy, negative, destructive etc. won't kill me, so what's the big deal? It's a justification for irresponsibility.

This argument isn't logical. First off, alcohol is not bad on its own. Alcohol is only bad if someone abuses it. Similarly, the internet is not bad... unless it is abused. Sex isn't bad... unless it is abused. Food isn't bad... unless it is abused. You have a personal attachment/association to alcohol, so you espouse your morality to everyone else regarding what is an inanimate object. Lots of people have proven, unlike something like methamphetamine, that you can drink alcohol occasionally and it is not "bad". Heck, even the word "bad" is subjective here.

 

 

The truth lies somewhere in the middle. Some people can have a drink on occasion, meaning once in awhile, and not have it effect their lives or their health. Others drink because they live under the delusion that it makes thier lives in someway richer and so they do it on a regular basis. Once the honeymoon is over the bloom comes off the rose and a person realizes they have chosen a most unsavory accomplice. Anyone who thinks alcohol is somehow enriching their life is buried deep in delusion. That's the reality.

No my friend, that is your reality, and everyone has their own reality. You could say that I'm "burried deep in delusion" just as much as I can say that you're "burried deep inside your own projection and conditioned mind."

[jettison]

And drive cars? Cars are remarkably dangerous. Almost everyone over the course of their lives ends up in some kind of very serious altercation. Can we afford to keep letting them take that risk?

[pinkelephant]

And drive cars? Cars are remarkably dangerous. Almost everyone over the course of their lives ends up in some kind of very serious altercation. Can we afford to keep letting them take that risk?

 

In the cases of cars, there is an obvious benefit-- an actual NEED for them. For alcohol, where's the need? There isn't. It's simply for entertainment. It's a ridiculous comparison, but I don't disagree with the point.

 

I prefer people who don't drink and it annoys me when guys talk about "how ****ed they got over the weekend". It makes me think, wow, not much to your life.. is there? but I wouldn't stop anyone from drinking. I also live in a relatively small college town though.

[jul-els]

It's amazing how many strawmans one must defend against in a debate sometimes. Show me where anyone said, "alcohol has no detrimental effects." It was never said, nor would it ever be said. So, arguing this point, one I don't believe in to begin with, would be a collosal waste of time.

 

Similarly, I could argue that "lots of people grow up to be bad people, and bad people start out as babies. Therefore, you shouldn't have babies because it's dangerous."

 

That's just silly. Babies and alcohol are two entirely different things. Talk about "straw men".

 

There isn't anyone who can't say this.

 

Untrue. There are many people who can't. If you're one of those who can, I'd think you could see my point.

 

 

This argument isn't logical. First off, alcohol is not bad on its own. Alcohol is only bad if someone abuses it. Similarly, the internet is not bad... unless it is abused. Sex isn't bad... unless it is abused. Food isn't bad... unless it is abused. You have a personal attachment/association to alcohol, so you espouse your morality to everyone else regarding what is an inanimate object. Lots of people have proven, unlike something like methamphetamine, that you can drink alcohol occasionally and it is not "bad". Heck, even the word "bad" is subjective here.

 

It is bad. It's a poison. The truth is it, unlike food or sex, bestows no benefit at all.

 

No my friend, that is your reality, and everyone has their own reality. You could say that I'm "burried deep in delusion" just as much as I can say that you're "burried deep inside your own projection and conditioned mind."

 

When I talk about reality, I'm referring to facts, to that which is real. I never said you were buried deep in delusion. I said those who tell themselves that alcohol is beneficial to their lives are. If you in fact do feel that way, then I'm afraid I was referring to you, but it's not meant as a judgement on your person. It's just the stark reality and something I personally have a hard time conveying in a gentle manner, so if that's the impression I gave, my apologies for that as it is not my intention. It is my intention to point out that alcohol is bad for you.

 

Anyone who refuses to see that just refuses to see that for whatever their own personal reasons are, which are perfectly valid. I never said anyone shouldn't drink. People should do whatever they want within the confines of the law. I have no desire to tell people what to do. I do have a desire however to point out an activity that is wholly bad for a persons well being just because the very nature of drinking is to shun such realities. I just like to point them out in an attempt to help to inform peoples choices, the responsibility of which begins and ends with them.

[jettison]

In the cases of cars, there is an obvious benefit-- an actual NEED for them. For alcohol, where's the need? There isn't. It's simply for entertainment. It's a ridiculous comparison, but I don't disagree with the point.

 

So need trumps safety? And who decides that? It is a ridiculous comparison btw, and that's the point exactly.

 

I prefer people who don't drink and it annoys me when guys talk about "how ****ed they got over the weekend". It makes me think, wow, not much to your life.. is there? but I wouldn't stop anyone from drinking. I also live in a relatively small college town though.

 

Nothing wrong with that at all. I prefer women with brown hair. We can prefer anything we like.

 

That's just silly. Babies and alcohol are two entirely different things. Talk about "straw men".

 

Me thinks you don't know the what a strawman is. You argued that I made a point about alcohol that was never made. That's a strawman. I presented a ridiculous metaphor to point out the fallacy of your argument. That's simply a metaphor and nothing at all like a strawman since I never argued that you made that point.

 

 

 

Untrue. There are many people who can't. If you're one of those who can, I'd think you could see my point.

 

There are many people who can't help themselves from speeding on the freeway either, even though we know it is signicicantly more dangerous and could cost lives. Does this mean people shouldn't drive on the freeway because we can't trust some people not to speed?

 

 

 

 

It is bad. It's a poison. The truth is it, unlike food or sex, bestows no benefit at all.

 

Says you and your opinion. Alcohol brings people together. It is celebratory. In moderation, it is calming. It brings both tradition and comaraderie. In the right hands, it is a celebration and not the all-vilifying, all-or-nothing "alcohol is bad" that you label it as.

 

 

 

When I talk about reality, I'm referring to facts, to that which is real. I never said you were buried deep in delusion. I said those who tell themselves that alcohol is beneficial to their lives are.

 

Hence, you say that I am buried in deep illusion.

 

If you in fact do feel that way, then I'm afraid I was referring to you, but it's not meant as a judgement on your person. It's just the stark reality and something I personally have a hard time conveying in a gentle manner, so if that's the impression I gave, my apologies for that as it is not my intention. It is my intention to point out that alcohol is bad for you.

 

It's my impression to continue to maintain that alcohol is bad... if abused. Without the qualifier, your statement means zero. Axes are bad... if you swing them at someone's skull.

 

Anyone who refuses to see that just refuses to see that for whatever their own personal reasons are, which are perfectly valid. I never said anyone shouldn't drink. People should do whatever they want within the confines of the law. I have no desire to tell people what to do. I do have a desire however to point out an activity that is wholly bad for a persons well being just because the very nature of drinking is to shun such realities. I just like to point them out in an attempt to help to inform peoples choices, the responsibility of which begins and ends with them.

 

Nothing at all wrong with pointing out the pitfalls a perils of alcohol abuse. It's a worthy endeavor... as long as it's not a militant, all-or-nothing approach to condemnation. I happen to work in a liver transplant clinic so there is no one who understands this topic more then I do. I went to a surgeons party a few years back, and we all toasted with champagne. We enjoyed ourselves. It was a celebration. People are capable of governing their own lives and enjoying themselves to the tone of moderation.

[jul-els]

The thing you seem to be missing is I am not militantly condemming anyone. I am merely pointing out the destuctive nature of alcohol usage. If you prefer not to look at that, or percieve it as a condemnation, that's your choice. You see it as a wonderful social lubricant that brings cheer and good tidings to those who imbibe. I see it as an utterly useless waste of time and a crutch at best. But crutches help people to walk sometimes, I suppose. While both points have their certain validity, it's very clear that neither one of us is ever going to see the others side, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Cognitive_Canine]

The thing you seem to be missing is I am not militantly condemming anyone. I am merely pointing out the destuctive nature of alcohol usage. If you prefer not to look at that, or percieve it as a condemnation, that's your choice. You see it as a wonderful social lubricant that brings cheer and good tidings to those who imbibe. I see it as an utterly useless waste of time and a crutch at best. But crutches help people to walk sometimes, I suppose. While both points have their certain validity, it's very clear that neither one of us is ever going to see the others side, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

I agree with this. We just have different mindsets about alcohol. And we are all entitled to our feelings.

 

But don't assume when I go out on Saint Patrick's day to celebrate with friends that there is probably something wrong with me due to alcohol being involved. There are a lot of things wrong with me and drinking isn't one of them.

[jul-els]

I agree with this. We just have different mindsets about alcohol. And we are all entitled to our feelings.

 

But don't assume when I go out on Saint Patrick's day to celebrate with friends that there is probably something wrong with me due to alcohol being involved. There are a lot of things wrong with me and drinking isn't one of them.

 

I wouldn't. It is my considerate opinion that it's a poor choice, but has no reflection on someone's person. I just think it's funny how people see it as some sort of magical bonding elixir. The truth as I see it is people get together to socialize and enjoy the company of their fellow humans. If anything alcohol only serves to cloud the endeavor, thereby creating the opposite of it's intended effect. I don't see how the irony of that gets lost, but somehow it does. The act of socializing with my fellow humans is stimulation enough for me. They really don't tend to frighten me all that much.

[Cognitive_Canine]

I wouldn't. It is my considerate opinion that it's a poor choice, but has no reflection on someone's person. I just think it's funny how people see it as some sort of magical bonding elixir. The truth as I see it is people get together to socialize and enjoy the company of their fellow humans. If anything alcohol only serves to cloud the endeavor, thereby creating the opposite of it's intended effect. I don't see how the irony of that gets lost, but somehow it does. The act of socializing with my fellow humans is stimulation enough for me. They really don't tend to frighten me all that much.

 

It's not intended to dull the frightening. I am so unafraid of people. haha.

 

Drinks are just like music and tv in the background for most people. It's just part of the social atmosphere.

 

For me, I really enjoy drinking. I enjoy the taste of my cranberry and vodka and the sophistication I feel while sipping. None of my group goes out to get drunk or trashed. Just tipsy. We've worked a hard week, we like to just blur the edges a bit. Like biting into a piece of chocolate, it's a relaxing and celebratory action.

[jul-els]

It's not intended to dull the frightening. I am so unafraid of people. haha.

 

Drinks are just like music and tv in the background for most people. It's just part of the social atmosphere.

 

For me, I really enjoy drinking. I enjoy the taste of my cranberry and vodka and the sophistication I feel while sipping. None of my group goes out to get drunk or trashed. Just tipsy. We've worked a hard week, we like to just blur the edges a bit. Like biting into a piece of chocolate, it's a relaxing and celebratory action.

 

Well, whatever melts your butter, I suppose. I see no value in it, it's not like I've never drank. I used to on a fairly semi regular basis in my younger years. But much like candy, it lost it's appeal at a certain point for me. I can still sometimes be entertained by other people when they're drinking, then on the other hand they can drive me away just as often. I've just outgrown it. Holds no interest. I've only got one body and it ain't getting any younger. I want us to have a good relationship once the sunset years arrive.

[afrodite79]

Well, whatever melts your butter, I suppose. I see no value in it, it's not like I've never drank. I used to on a fairly semi regular basis in my younger years. But much like candy, it lost it's appeal at a certain point for me. I can still sometimes be entertained by other people when they're drinking, then on the other hand they can drive me away just as often. I've just outgrown it. Holds no interest. I've only got one body and it ain't getting any younger. I want us to have a good relationship once the sunset years arrive.

 

Wait. Forget not wanting to drink. Candy lost it's appeal? That's serious business.

[jul-els]

Wait. Forget not wanting to drink. Candy lost it's appeal? That's serious business.

 

Silly rabbit, trix are for kids!

[jettison]

The thing you seem to be missing is I am not militantly condemming anyone. I am merely pointing out the destuctive nature of alcohol usage. If you prefer not to look at that, or percieve it as a condemnation, that's your choice. You see it as a wonderful social lubricant that brings cheer and good tidings to those who imbibe. I see it as an utterly useless waste of time and a crutch at best. But crutches help people to walk sometimes, I suppose. While both points have their certain validity, it's very clear that neither one of us is ever going to see the others side, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

And that's what I don't understand... pointing out "the destructive nature of alcohol usage." Similarly, you wouldn't understand it if I made a post about how the sun is hot. At some point, we just hope that our sophistication transcends that.

[sophie274]

I think this thread may be mostly over, so I'm arriving quite late ...

 

My personal opinion is that alcohol in small quantities is not harmful, and has in fact been proven (this is not my opinion, but fact) to have beneficial effects on health. However, I do see that alcohol is a slippery slope for many people, and that most drinkers drink much more alcohol than is healthy.

 

I'm leaving college soon, but I've definitely witnessed many destructive side effects of alcohol here, and much abuse that is passed off as completely normal. That is worrying, and it is worrying that many of these young people cannot control their alcohol intake well, and are unaware or dismissive of the harmful effects on their bodies and their lives.

 

That being said, I'm very much resistant to the idea of saying that alcohol is wholly bad or a scourge. Like I said, I drink what I think is a responsible, reasonable and healthy amount of alcohol - a couple of times a month at most, and two drinks at most then, limited to preserve my health (fitness and skin etc) mostly, and because I don't want to get in the habit of heavy drinking - and for me the benefits are: I love the drinks I drink and it feels like a treat, much like the few french fries I had today. I like and appreciate the taste of alcohol, especially coming from a foodie culture and from THE country of wine - so for me it is like tasting a gourmet meal. And yes, it is a cultural form of celebration for me, and that's important to me as well.

 

The bottom line is that there are many things I do that are not amazingly constructive for my life, but not harmful either (like those french fries, that glass of wine, that hour spent wasting time doing nothing and the day I skip my work-out) that I enjoy and that feel like little treats, and for me alcohol is just one of them, and I don't fear it because I'm not interested enough in alcohol that it is likely to become problematic for me.

[ElChup]

Alcohol can be really insidious. The problem in the UK isn't so much binge drinking per se, it's also drinking habits that people think are ok.

 

As a man in my thirties the number of occasions I go partying has seriously dropped. But what I noticed was that myself, and people around me, would drink "respectably". That is to say a drink at lunchtime if people were going out together for something to eat. A couple beers or glasses of wine at home after work. A couple drinks during a meal out. A few pints on a trip to see a football match.

 

Point is that the units can creep up fast even if you aren't traditionally a binge drinker. For me I began to be concerned about it, so much so that I have attended several AA meetings. Not because I am an alcoholic, but because I wanted to understand how easy it can be to fall into that trap. Now I am very restrictive about alcohol and plan to give it up by the time I reach 40.

[jul-els]

And that's what I don't understand... pointing out "the destructive nature of alcohol usage." Similarly, you wouldn't understand it if I made a post about how the sun is hot. At some point, we just hope that our sophistication transcends that.

 

On the contrary, if I were an astronomer or scientist, I'm sure I would find the subject of great interest. At any rate, pouring poison into my body will never pass as sophistication in my book. I might think that mumblypeg is the greatest pastime ever. I might be really good at it. I may be able to say I've never missed and find it to be a great reliever of stress and tension. Doesn't automatically make it a good idea. I don't hope that things I know are unhealthy will not have an effect on me. I simply choose to avoid them wherever possible. That's wisdom, and it transcends sophistication. But both of our experiences with it are very different. And each of our opinions rightfully reflect those experiences, as well they should.