Everyone Who Is A Virgin is A Virgin By Choice?

[In the Dark]

And that's perfectly fine if you don't want to lose your virginity to someone like that. However, it's not fair to be bitter towards women just because we can 'get it easier.'

 

You'll have to be in his shoes to gauge whether it's fair or not.

 

You will have NEVER felt that low of never being asked out, never being walked up to and flirted with, just for sex.

 

Never.

 

People who basically get asked for sex should understand the suffering someone who does not get asked goes through.

 

That's when it's fair and without arrogance.

 

There is no empathym just simple logical understanding for their out look.

[Cognitive_Canine]

You'll have to be in his shoes to gauge whether it's fair or not.

 

You will have NEVER felt that low of never being asked out, never being walked up to and flirted with, just for sex.

 

Never.

 

 

I have been in his shoes. I didn't get any guys interested in me until I was 17 or 18. I was quite ugly until late high school. I've had a guy make a disgusted face as he said no to me asking him out when I was younger.

[greywolf]

You'll have to be in his shoes to gauge whether it's fair or not.

 

You will have NEVER felt that low of never being asked out, never being walked up to and flirted with, just for sex.

 

Never.

 

People who basically get asked for sex should understand the suffering someone who does not get asked goes through.

 

That's when it's fair and without arrogance.

 

There is no empathym just simple logical understanding for their out look.

 

But being bitter only hurts yourself.

[In the Dark]

I have been in his shoes. I didn't get any guys interested in me until I was 17 or 18. I was quite ugly until late high school. I've had a guy make a disgusted face as he said no to me asking him out when I was younger.

 

Until 17-18.

Many guys still get this sort of treatment many years after and they are average kind of guys.

 

But being bitter only hurts yourself.

 

As I said put yourself in his shoes, but I doubt you could.

To fathom that the majority of people you find attractive won't even give you the time of day.

 

The person then in turn has a right to be bitter, because they are made that way.

 

Yes indeed there is a song for that kind of out look "Always Look on the Bright side of Life".

 

But when the bright side is nothing but a flicker compared to the people who get attention....you ain't going to listen to that song in the same context.

[Iakasot]

You just admitted that you care for a guy that plays games, and don't care about guys who don't play games. He'd never lose you? Is that a fact? What if he cut his hair, what if he ran out of jokes, and all of a sudden he doesn't seem that different from those boring guys. Do you have any, any, ANY idea how many relationships start with a girl being like "ohhh he's such my type"? Then, when she breaks up she says "you are not my type", it's the same guy, he hasn't changed, and not like he was trying to hide something, something might have happened that affected his confidence level or whatever, and all of a sudden he's no different to her than one of those other random guys, she just doesn't see him as anything else besides "just a friend", she just can't think of him in a romantic or sexual way anymore, like you can't think of those other guys.

 

You think it's not gonna happen to you, like so many other girls don't think it's not gonna happen to them. It's not that different from when people try smoking, and smoke for like a month and are saying "oh, I'm not gonna get addicted". Romantic feelings release dopamine, just like nicotine does, so it follows a similar behavioral paradigm.

 

It's not like male attraction is THAT dissimilar as far as neurochemistry, it just has different triggers, they're mostly visual and based on the fact that the girl has a female reproductive tract. But just the way the two attraction mechanisms manifest themselves in our society leads to dissimilar results, like 70% of divorces being filed by women, women dumping men more than men dumping women, women rejecting men more than men reject women (just think about how many guys you rejected compared to this 1 guy rejecting you, the story is similar with most people). I mean, statistics don't lie. Men also had higher measured depression levels after break-ups, and a post-break-up suicide rate that's 10 times higher.

 

The conclusion: Men, are on average more attracted to women than women are attracted to men, and the attraction is more likely to stay at a stable level as well. This manifests itself in relationship statistics, the existence of prostitution due to an imbalance of supply and demand of female attraction (women selling their 'attraction' to men they are not attracted to), the existence of pornography (also due to men being more visual). But this imbalance is what causes the difference between male and female virgins in this topic, where the male virgins are GENERALLY not virgins by choice. I think it's important people understand this difference, because male virgins typically exhibit learned helplessness behavior, and it needs a different psychotherapeutic approach if they are to receive help.

[DreamerGirl27]

I dunno what you just sputtered out or where you got your logic on this, but no... I would not leave him if he cut his hair. I would strongly urge him not to, because I think it looks adorkable on him, but I would still like him. I almost just typed love, but stopped myself seeing as he doesn't even like me and we aren't even in a relationship, that would be kinda creepy.

 

You sound really bitter, by the way... and I'm the one mending a broken heart here. Just wait til you find some girl who you think is on the top of the pedestal and you can't imagine yourself with anyone else and she rejects you. Not.a.good.feeling...at all. I am more into this guy than just his looks, his looks are just an added bonus.

 

Also, maybe the problem guys seem to have is that they don't look as good as girls do. I like this guy because he seems to care about his appearance and it shows. Girls put on makeup, do their hair, make an attempt at dressing well. Do you know how many guys I know that shave and/or cut all their hair off because it's easier, throw on the first thing they find off the floor, whether it's stylish or not, hell, whether it matches or not and some don't even bother to shower sometimes. (speaking from experience)

 

You need to watch this one episode of House. All the women went after this guy Chase in the episode because he was ATTRACTIVE and took care of himself and looked like he actually cared about his appearance. It is possible for men to make themselves more attractive than what they do, and when I find a guy who looks like he cares about his appearance, I fall easily. For me, it has a lot to do with their hair. Hair is sexy. On both men AND women. When a guy has long, shaggy hair, I about die. Does this mean when we get old I'm going to divorce him should he start going bald? No...of course not. Because I will get old, too. Would I expect him to leave me when I get older and possibly gain weight? Again, of course not. Attractiveness doesn't last forever, just like life doesn't last forever, but...while you're still young and have the ability to look decent, why shouldn't you?

 

Women spend HOURS in the mirror/bathroom every day/morning primping and making themselves look good, mostly for you men. If more men did that in return, maybe we wouldn't have this problem of constantly running into hideous looking men... Sometimes it's as simple as letting your hair grow out a little bit. People look very different with short hair than they do with long. This isn't to say I think every male on the planet should grow their hair long for my benefit (though that would be very nice), but just letting you know that women can be just as visual as men. I even kinda like the emo look, where men wear eyeliner. I could never see myself with an emo boy...but I'd take an emo boy that wore eyeliner over a plain guy who had short hair and no style going for him at all. Eyeliner also just does something to your face that makes it just look...pretty. lol I can give you a countless number of males I'm attracted to, mostly all famous ones, because I can't show you what any of the guys I know look like. Pretty much all the guys I've dated have been nice looking guys, though that's not many. I can get some pretty decent looking guys, but I'm not gonna lie. This one has 'em all beat. I can't imagine him looking bad, even with short hair...But yeah....I had a point to all this, and I've somehow lost it.

 

I think I've made whatever point it was I had to make and if I didn't...well, I don't really care. Bottom line is, I'm in love with my friend who isn't in love with me back, and it's not because of his hair, although that is what initially attracted me to him in the first place. But asking me if I'd change my mind if he cut his hair, is just as shallow as a guy leaving his girlfriend because she gained too much weight. We are physical beings, though... and being physically attracted to someone is important. You don't have eyeballs in your head for nothing, you know.

 

I think somehow my point was lost again and that's because your post was very negative, didn't make any sense, and almost bashing against women. I dunno if bashing is exactly the right word for it...but seriously, dude, if you really feel that way about women, maybe that's why you're still a virgin. I'm female, and females are prettier than males, so if you meant that men are just attracted to females more on a visual level, I can understand why because girls are just...pretty. But, there are how many people on this planet? and how many hot guys are in that bunch? Billions...

[Cognitive_Canine]

Until 17-18.

Many guys still get this sort of treatment many years after and they are average kind of guys.

 

 

 

I've still been in that place for a critical time in my life. I've been in those shoes. It only changed because I changed myself. I know that if I would have remained the same, I would still be getting the same results.

[In the Dark]

Lol

 

Dreamergirl.....

 

You would not have given the guy the light of day if he didn't have the hair.

The interest you saw in him was physical attraction at the start, not an added bonus.

 

It's what made you go...."I think this guy is good enough for me".

But you aren't good enough for him.

 

What your physical and social expectation standards of what a partner requires can leave you without anyone because all the people you want.....can get something even better.

 

Just like when people go out and purchase something, they usually go for something which is a little more expensive than what they can really afford.

 

There are many hot guys for sure.

 

The issue lies with personal standards.

 

We often have to take a hard look in the mirror and then look at who we are wanting to do and then think, would they want to get in bed with someone who looks like me.

 

Personality does really go a long way.

 

The more attractive someone is the more people can forgive them for their poor personality.

 

I've still been in that place for a critical time in my life. I've been in those shoes. It only changed because I changed myself. I know that if I would have remained the same, I would still be getting the same results.

 

And what did you change....

[DreamerGirl27]

I already said that his hair and his looks was what initially attracted me to him. I made that clear, but when you don't know someone, that's all you have to go off of. I'm certainly not gonna go for some old bald man with a beer gut. There are tons of guys I look at and am attracted to, but for some reason I really wanted to get to know this guy. You think I want to get to know every guy on the planet I'm attracted to? I listened (evesdropped) to what this guy had to say all semester and decided I HAD to get to know him. That's not only liking him for his looks. He's just a total cutie on top of me loving his personality. There is only one problem with it. He has a check list of what he's looking for. He's pickier than I am...and that's hard to do.

[Cognitive_Canine]

I lost about 30 pounds, finally started being more feminine (taking good care of my skin, actually styling my hair rather than washing it and air drying it), invested in some contacts, and used my new confidence to start flirting.

 

It was kind of great that I was a tomboy for so long because it's so much easier for me to talk to men rather than women. It just took a lot of work on learning how to talk to men in a romantic/flirtatious way. I also had to work on my social skills a lot. I'm still working on them actually. I payed attention to my actions, words, and little movements. Relearning how to drink from a straw in a feminine way to holding by my too toothy smile (I'd smile with both the top and the bottom teeth). Pretty much every little thing was revamped for me when I recognized that I needed to fix it.

 

It wasn't a quick change and it was a long journey. I'm still learning new things about how to actually be a girl every once in a while. But, I highly believe that everyone is capable of changing themselves and that change is good.

[In the Dark]

^^ And there you go.

Physical attraction is the first thing which gives ANYONE a chance of getting laid.

 

For there it's what the person wants....sex or something more.

 

Some people can not do the just sex thing as some people just do get off on it when all they have to go off is looks.

 

But as I said.

 

We forgive someone a lot easier for their personality faults/poor behavior the more attractive someone is.

 

Dremer girl....

Look in the mirror and look at the people you are choosing as good enough for you.

Then take another look and ask yourself.....am I good enough for them.

 

Doing this can make you realize and probably begrudgingly that your standards are too high.

 

If not.....remain a spinster.

[Cognitive_Canine]

^^ And there you go.

Physical attraction is the first thing which gives ANYONE a chance of getting laid.

 

For there it's what the person wants....sex or something more.

 

Some people can not do the just sex thing as some people just do get off on it when all they have to go off is looks.

 

But as I said.

 

We forgive someone a lot easier for their personality faults/poor behavior the more attractive someone is.

 

Dremer girl....

Look in the mirror and look at the people you are choosing as good enough for you.

Then take another look and ask yourself.....am I good enough for them.

 

Doing this can make you realize and probably begrudgingly that your standards are too high.

 

If not.....remain a spinster.

 

While I agree that from appearances it was a lot of physical changes but a ton of mental changes happened at the same time.

 

Once I got my new looks, I had a hard time using them. I missed out on a ton of opportunities because I didn't know what to do/didn't want to do what I needed to to get a guy.

 

Take for example my ex. I was kissing him (and I initiated it) before we were even going out. I doubt me 5 years prior than that could have done that or even fathomed that as being an option.

 

I guess that it matters that I wasn't looking to get laid. I've never been in a position where I was looking for a lay. I am the kind of person that needs a long term, trusting relationship to have sex. So, it's more than just physical appearance to get that.

[In the Dark]

So first you had to look good enough for yourself and your perception of what men wanted to give yourself confidence which then in turn altered your personality?

 

Tomboys are cool.

Not the whole wishy-washy, having a good conversation then all of a sudden behaving like I am into them when I am relaxed around them.

 

Honestly I can't believe the amount of effort you put in to being feminine.

 

Whatever gets the guys you were around at the time.....

[Iakasot]

I dunno what you just sputtered out or where you got your logic on this, but no... I would not leave him if he cut his hair. I would strongly urge him not to, because I think it looks adorkable on him, but I would still like him. I almost just typed love, but stopped myself seeing as he doesn't even like me and we aren't even in a relationship, that would be kinda creepy.

You know, using the word "sputtered" in this context is disrespectful. I would like to just inform you that you are the only person in this topic that has said that my post doesn't make sense. Most of the men will agree with what I'm trying to say. Do you know why that is? Because what I am saying is backed up by cognitive neuro-science, evolutionary biology, and behavioral research. Science is about as logical of a base as possible, and I haven't seen you present much of that, yet you attempt to discredit me by saying my logic doesn't make sense.

 

Please explain to me how you saying you were attracted to that guy, who just happens to be someone who plays games doesn't mean: You're attracted to guys who play games. That's exactly what it means. There might be guys you aren't attracted to who play games, but "You're attracted to guys who play games." is a valid statement, because there are in fact guys who play games who you are attracted to.

 

You sound really bitter, by the way... and I'm the one mending a broken heart here. Just wait til you find some girl who you think is on the top of the pedestal and you can't imagine yourself with anyone else and she rejects you. Not.a.good.feeling...at all. I am more into this guy than just his looks, his looks are just an added bonus.

I saw another post of you where you basically said that girls are entitled to feel hurt, and guys aren't, and they should man up or something. I think it's unreasonable that you're completely discounting the pain of heartbreak I've felt in my life. You know, I've had girls up on pedestals before, and I've BEEN put up on a pedestal before by girls. You know what the difference between me and you is though? I made sure I was dating the girls before I put them up on a pedestal, I made sure my dream was attainable. That was still a mistake though, because it makes no sense to basically worship someone whose attraction is so fickle and weak, even when it seems strong and they're saying it is and giving the signs it is.

 

You'd understand the kind of heartbreak I've experienced if you took just a couple of seconds to read the single sentence in my signature below my posts, but that might be too much to ask, so I won't. And you won't, because it's all about you you you, right?

 

Also, maybe the problem guys seem to have is that they don't look as good as girls do. I like this guy because he seems to care about his appearance and it shows. Girls put on makeup, do their hair, make an attempt at dressing well. Do you know how many guys I know that shave and/or cut all their hair off because it's easier, throw on the first thing they find off the floor, whether it's stylish or not, hell, whether it matches or not and some don't even bother to shower sometimes. (speaking from experience)

Lol, guys who dress to impress, and comb their hair with vaseline, and pluck their eyebrows are lame and don't get laid, everybody knows that. Girls don't create incentive for guys to take care of themselves. Think about it this way, it's GUY we're talking about here, and if something worked so well to get girls to want you, every guy would be doing it. Looking nice doesn't even get your foot in the door with girls, at best it puts you into a position where you could knock on the door, and she probably won't answer. (metaphor, in case you didn't understand again)

You need to watch this one episode of House. All the women went after this guy Chase in the episode because he was ATTRACTIVE and took care of himself and looked like he actually cared about his appearance. It is possible for men to make themselves more attractive than what they do, and when I find a guy who looks like he cares about his appearance, I fall easily. For me, it has a lot to do with their hair. Hair is sexy. On both men AND women. When a guy has long, shaggy hair, I about die. Does this mean when we get old I'm going to divorce him should he start going bald? No...of course not. Because I will get old, too. Would I expect him to leave me when I get older and possibly gain weight? Again, of course not. Attractiveness doesn't last forever, just like life doesn't last forever, but...while you're still young and have the ability to look decent, why shouldn't you?

Wow, I'm not sure if I should feel flattered that you like long hair. I don't, because I don't really like compliments from girls of your type.

 

I have an example from House MD too, by the way: Cameron leaves Chase after telling him she will love him no matter what, after hearing his secret. See when she was trying to say that she'd be with him regardless of that, and appreciated his honesty or whatever. I knew she wasn't gonna stay with him, despite her saying she would, that's just not how these things work. She would've liked to think that her love was "like that", but it was just wishful thinking and in the end the relationship would succumb to statistics.

 

I know you'd like to think that your "love" for this guy would last no matter what, but the simple fact of the matter is, you have many many many many turn-offs, and eventually they would erode your attraction for him when you saw those turn-offs in him. Think of the same turn-offs guys you don't feel attracted to have. Maybe they're a doormat, maybe they're too available, maybe they're too open about liking you, maybe they're insecure, maybe they aren't confident, etc, the list goes on. I hope you understand the point I'm trying to make, from the post I'm replying to it doesn't sound like you do, because you only really reply to the looks aspect of it. You have many turn-offs besides just looks, that's why you haven't really liked any guys besides 2 or 3 (my guess).

 

Women spend HOURS in the mirror/bathroom every day/morning primping and making themselves look good, mostly for you men. If more men did that in return, maybe we wouldn't have this problem of constantly running into hideous looking men... Sometimes it's as simple as letting your hair grow out a little bit. People look very different with short hair than they do with long. This isn't to say I think every male on the planet should grow their hair long for my benefit (though that would be very nice), but just letting you know that women can be just as visual as men. I even kinda like the emo look, where men wear eyeliner. I could never see myself with an emo boy...but I'd take an emo boy that wore eyeliner over a plain guy who had short hair and no style going for him at all. Eyeliner also just does something to your face that makes it just look...pretty. lol I can give you a countless number of males I'm attracted to, mostly all famous ones, because I can't show you what any of the guys I know look like. Pretty much all the guys I've dated have been nice looking guys, though that's not many. I can get some pretty decent looking guys, but I'm not gonna lie. This one has 'em all beat. I can't imagine him looking bad, even with short hair...But yeah....I had a point to all this, and I've somehow lost it.

You could never see yourself with an emo boy, even though you "fall so easily" for guys who care about their appearance? How come you don't fall for those emo guys then? They take care of their appearance. Ohh ohh, I know, because appearance doesn't matter that much. That was my point, you have a lot of turn-offs, and MY ORIGINAL POINT replying to a post of yours: "Why should this guy go out with you if you get turned off so easily?" The simple answer is, he shouldn't, and that's why he doesn't. Smart guy =).

 

You mostly like famous guys, in other words, guys you can't have. You don't like guys you CAN have. Coincidence?

 

I think I've made whatever point it was I had to make and if I didn't...well, I don't really care. Bottom line is, I'm in love with my friend who isn't in love with me back, and it's not because of his hair, although that is what initially attracted me to him in the first place. But asking me if I'd change my mind if he cut his hair, is just as shallow as a guy leaving his girlfriend because she gained too much weight. We are physical beings, though... and being physically attracted to someone is important. You don't have eyeballs in your head for nothing, you know.

 

I think somehow my point was lost again and that's because your post was very negative, didn't make any sense, and almost bashing against women. I dunno if bashing is exactly the right word for it...but seriously, dude, if you really feel that way about women, maybe that's why you're still a virgin. I'm female, and females are prettier than males, so if you meant that men are just attracted to females more on a visual level, I can understand why because girls are just...pretty. But, there are how many people on this planet? and how many hot guys are in that bunch? Billions...

Lol, I find it funny that you judged me to be a virgin. You know, just because I posted in this topic doesn't make me a virgin, I'm just trying to defend men's point of view who are not virgins by choice. You seem so sure that I'm a virgin, even though I never said that. Hmm, I wonder why I didn't say that, oh wait, because I'm not a virgin. If you took a few minutes to look at my past posts you'd see my issue is with women who have had sex with me and said how attractive I was and how they'd keep being attracted to me but lost that attraction. It doesn't mean I can't defend men who are virgins not by choice, because the issue of female attraction is the same with them.

 

There's hardly 3 billion males on the planet, let alone "hot guys". C'mon now. My point is, you've been with other guys, and you aren't with them anymore because you aren't attracted to them, what makes you think it would be any different with this guy?

 

And again, coming back to my original point, don't you think it's this kind of pickiness that is the reason why women are GENERALLY virgins by choice, and men are GENERALLY virgins not by choice? I want you to explain to me why the biological difference in attraction isn't a valid argument for this topic. I think the men here would agree with me that it is.

[Cognitive_Canine]

So first you had to look good enough for yourself and your perception of what men wanted to give yourself confidence which then in turn altered your personality?

 

Tomboys are cool.

Not the whole wishy-washy, having a good conversation then all of a sudden behaving like I am into them when I am relaxed around them.

 

Honestly I can't believe the amount of effort you put in to being feminine.

 

Whatever gets the guys you were around at the time.....

 

It sort of developed at the same time. Weight loss was a long journey. As I lost the weight, I slowly gained the personality fix ups. However, it took a lot longer to calm my personality (I was a bit high strung). It's just not easy to change that sort of thing.

 

And, I didn't change it to what guys found attractive. I changed it to what I thought was best and what kind of person I wanted to be.

 

And, I'm still a tom boy at heart. I play video games, I read a lot of books (including sci fi), I'm writing a fantasy novel (loose definition of 'writing'). But, I found a lot of other parts of me. Turns out I can be quite the jock. I love working out now. I can do crunches like a champ.

 

While I'm still the same person, I have a much different wrapping and I express myself differently. I don't try so hard to get attention. I make better jokes. I know how to deliver a story now (wow, I was seriously bad), and I lost all my annoying habits.

 

I also have a problem with guy friends falling for me. I have a lot of really geeky guy friends. They mistake my niceness for interest sometimes and it really sucks. I don't like hurting their feelings.

[jonny15]

And that's perfectly fine if you don't want to lose your virginity to someone like that. However, it's not fair to be bitter towards women just because we can 'get it easier.'

 

I'm not being bitter, but it is the truth that woman can get it easier than men.

 

This whole, "I don't get any because I don't want to be judged thing" is a joke.

 

I myself would love to get with someone willing who isn't a nasty hooker.

 

I myself am not worried about someone having a problem with me having sex with a girl.

 

I could careless what someone calls me.

[DreamerGirl27]

^^ And there you go.

Physical attraction is the first thing which gives ANYONE a chance of getting laid.

 

For there it's what the person wants....sex or something more.

 

Some people can not do the just sex thing as some people just do get off on it when all they have to go off is looks.

 

But as I said.

 

We forgive someone a lot easier for their personality faults/poor behavior the more attractive someone is.

 

Dremer girl....

Look in the mirror and look at the people you are choosing as good enough for you.

Then take another look and ask yourself.....am I good enough for them.

 

Doing this can make you realize and probably begrudgingly that your standards are too high.

 

If not.....remain a spinster.

 

I would do that, if maybe looks was all I cared about...

[G-Snap]

Who here agrees with this statement, that the only people who are virgins are people who choose that lifestyle.

 

Considering how easy it is to get sex, especially on any college campus, or just by visiting Graigslist, can one make the argument that anyone who is a virgin is that way for reasons other than choosing that lifestyle?

 

I think there are likely a lot of people who don't choose it.

 

Some do. Some don't. The percentage of who is which, I do not know.

[DreamerGirl27]

Iakasot, you have a lot of disrespect for women.

[sidehop]

Thread closed.