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Just not that into me?


Ammy

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I don't get it! This guy I met a month ago and I seemed to be going well, but things just aren't progressing. I'll try and make the story brief.

 

I met this guy online - he emailed me first and then we got into an email convo over a couple of days which culminated in us meeting up about 2 weeks later. After the first few dates he would text me the next morning to say he had a great time and would love to see me again. He is a nervous type of guy and did not attempt any physical affection till date 3 when he held me hand and kissed me. After that he took his profile down off the dating site and started being more regular in his contact (ie. nearly daily texts). He invited me to his place and cooked dinner for me, and we made out a little, but he made no attempts to go further than a lot of kissing (which is great by me as I don't want to rush). After that he started texting me every day to check how my day was etc and invited me out with his best friend (and his wife). After that date, he mentioned how his friend was raving about me and how I made such a great impression. This was last Sunday. After that we have continued with the daily text convo (just a few texts back and forth) and we had dinner with my best friend and her boyfriend last night (I arranged this). Everything seemed to be on track, no games, good amount of contact and interest...

 

BUT this is where is becomes odd. Dinner was great last night, he made a real effort with my friends and took my hand under the table during dinner, was quite flirtatious with me and intense stares etc, but after dinner (around 9.30 Fri night) he said he should get home and not hang out later (we were figuring out whether we would go out somewhere else) cos he had bicycle training 6am Sat morning. Fair enough. So I said I would drive him home (as I had my car and he didn't). He said he would take the bus, but I insisted, hoping we could spend a bit longer together. I dropped him at his place (approx 15-20 mins out of my way) and when I did, he didn't invite me in, despite knowing I had no other plans. He didn't even mention that he would like to but he had to get up early the next day or anything. It was just "Okay have fun tomorrow, bye"... and then "I'll talk to you tomorrow."

 

Today I got a text from him in the afternoon to tell me about his 8 hour bike ride... I replied a few hours later, and nothing. I texted this evening to check he was ok after his long ride, and he replied, we had a short convo but no mention of meeting up. It is the weekend and I am away at school Wed-Friday, so he knows we don't have much time to see each other. But nothing....

 

After 1 month of dating (5 dates in total - many hours together) should we not be seeing each other more than once a week? I feel totally at a loss, he keeps contacting me, but I feel like he's not super keen, because if he was, surely he'd want to be spending more time with me...??? We have not confirmed what we are either... to me it just feeds me idea that his interest is fading rather than growing.

 

Maybe I am being too clingy? But all my friends meet guys and the guys fall head over heels and chase them and they all have long-term relationships with men who adore them... I feel like men initially find me attractive but then I just become a 'convenience' who is there when they feel like it, but not important when they don't...

 

I feel trapped because I like this guy and would like to give it a go, but if he's not super keen I'd rather know sooner than later, I don't want to have to convince someone to like me.. and I would rather not waste any more effort on him if this is the case.

 

Ammy

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Tough one... I don't think there is any 'right' number of dates, personally, you negotiate what works for the two of you.

 

When you use the word 'clingy', is that something you have been told you are? If so, back off and get on with lots of other things to fill your days - but I have to say you don't come accross that way.

 

It could be that he's very straightforward and as he'd already told you about his 6am start he didn't repeat it. It could be he felt you were trying to force him to stay up late and made him uncomfortable.

 

It could be that his friend's wife said something innocently which has freaked him out, or indeed the whole Being out with a married couple thing made him think it was going too fast?

 

You know the answer - you have to ask him if he's happy with how things are. I think it's a little early to be wanting a label after a month, so perhaps you do come accross as a little over-eager? I'm sure lots of people will reply here and tell you one date a week and almost daily texts are fine at this stage - but it's what's right for YOU.

 

What else is going on in your life? Do you make sure YOU have stuff to talk to HIM about, what you've been doing, who you've seen, where you've been, etc?

 

 

Maybe I am being too clingy? But all my friends meet guys and the guys fall head over heels and chase them and they all have long-term relationships with men who adore them... I feel like men initially find me attractive but then I just become a 'convenience' who is there when they feel like it, but not important when they don't...
...and you don't have to believe in the Law of Attraction to realise that this is an expectation you are putting out there, which translates into a vibe you're giving off.

 

I bet deep down you don't really expect a relationship to go well cos you're 'not as good' as your friends..?

 

Take this as a wake-up call to do some work on your self-esteem, think realistically about what you want from a relationship, and perhasp talk to some of your friends about the early stages of their relaitionships - I bet they were all different in terms of dates, kissing, etc.

 

Keep us posted! And keep busy and thinking about if you DO come accross as expecting to be treateed this way. Think about what constitutes 'clingy' and if you do indeed have any of those traits. It's certainly not a disaster if you do - but you need to think hard about not putting all your emotional eggs in one basket. Take time to see some friends this week and chat to them about it and ask for their help. The people who have seen you try to find a man will have some insights which you might never have asked to hear. I'm sure you're as fine - or not - as the rest of us!

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Thanks for your reply!

 

I think I may be clingy because I am really keen to have a relationship. I have had sooooo much rejection and been single all my life. I see all my friends have fairly smooth transitions into relationships from dating where the guy is besotted by them and everything goes relatively well without drama. I don't think I am not as good as them, this is what puzzles me in fact. People tell me I am not average and I do believe it. I do believe I have a lot to offer a man and would be a great catch, but when I get knocked back time and again I start to wonder what the flaw is that is holding me back.

 

As for his best friend's wife - she loved me, apparently, so he said anyway.

 

The only thing I can think of being a problem (other than him just simply not thinking I'm so great) is that I come accross too "easy to get" (not in a sex way, but in a relationship way). I am too nice, I will drive him places, I will pay for things, I am constantly interested in whatever stuff he wants to talk about (although I do talk about myself a lot too - I have an interesting life and stuff to share). I think however I come accross as too eager to please.. and I am, because I have learnt I can lose affection very quickly in the past. I fear that if I don't try hard enough, I will lose it even quicker. I know this is probably wrong, but it is also not something I can see as a cardinal sin! The annoying thing is, he has been SUPER keen and "easy to get" himself up until now. He kept asking me out, emailing back within an hour, texting me... and now as soon as I reciprocate to the same level (not more) I feel like I'm being pushy...

 

I do busy myself with other things and see my friends daily, we talk about this stuff and they don't understand why I am single. We're all psychologists and we say it how it is to each other and in their eyes I am a nice, genuine, interesting person who is also reasonably attractive, they all say if they were a guy they'd date me in a heartbeat... yes they're my friends, but they also try to be honest with me...

 

Ammy

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Hi Ammy!

 

This is how my brother explained it to me (I had similar problems), that some guys like to be the attentive one. Some guys like to be the one to pay and to drive and do that stuff. If it's not something that encroaches on your moral standards for gender issues (totally another topic), then let him be the guy, you know?

 

You can be accessible without making yourself so available. Answer when he texts, but maybe take the space and let him "miss" you? And if it continues to be an issue, just have an up front conversation with him about your expectations.

 

Good luck! Keep us posted!

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Thanks for your reply!

 

I think I may be clingy because I am really keen to have a relationship. I have had sooooo much rejection and been single all my life.

 

 

...but when I get knocked back time and again I start to wonder what the flaw is that is holding me back.

 

There's your answer, SweetPea! Listen to your heart!

 

Have you ever dated a desperate guy? It's so unattractive, isn't it..?

 

The only answer is to fill your life up with lots of other things until you genuinely think of a relationship as the icing, not the cake. Others here will have tips I'm sure. You can do this!

 

I wonder if you're a reader? I bet people here would have good book suggestions too...

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There's your answer, SweetPea! Listen to your heart!

 

Have you ever dated a desperate guy? It's so unattractive, isn't it..?

 

The only answer is to fill your life up with lots of other things until you genuinely think of a relationship as the icing, not the cake. Others here will have tips I'm sure. You can do this!

 

I wonder if you're a reader? I bet people here would have good book suggestions too...

 

It's fine if a guy is full on with me, if I like him. If I like him, and he contacts me 24/7, I don't mind, because the feeling is reciprocated. If the guy is desperate and pushy and clingy and I don't feel attracted to them, then yes I hate it. So that is my answer... he isn't that into me if he gets turned off by a "tiny bit" of pushiness... I am by no means close to the worst cases of pushy/needy/clingy/high maintenance. The clinginess isn't usually the turn off though, it's usually that I'm not attracted to them and the clinginess just exacerbates the situation and dislike.

 

And... I do have a full life. I am studying a masters in psychology and am hoping to start my doctorate next year. I am heavily involved with the university and am a student representative and see clients as an intern psychologist. I have a lot of friends who I see regularly, a good relationship with my family, hobbies, gym. I have a busy life with a lot of achievements. What else I need to do to fill it, I don't know?!?!!

 

I am just at my wits end. Maybe I just have a faulty personality when it comes to men. Women love me. Maybe I should try batting for the other team... Honestly, I'm over men.

 

Ammy

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If you are doing a Masters in Psychology and can't see that your statement is way above the normal levels of anxiety (veering towards desperate) then you need to step back and take an honest look at yourself. You will be aware of verbal and non-verbal leakage, and I'd bet my bottom dollar that after the meal with his friends he saw something which has made him pull back.

 

You are saying you're 'done with men' although he hasn't finished with you?

 

You are very brittle and vulnerable right now, and you need to find a friend you trust and have a heart-t0-heart IMHO.

 

Of course, you may be SO busy and achieving that you can come accross as intimidating men - and you're right, the 'Right one' won't be out off.

 

My daughter has a First Class degree in Psychology and has also found men slow to ask her out/date her long term, although she is very like you - beautiful, high achieving, full life... She moved to Italy and gets asked out DAILY. Perhaps yo're in the wrong country!

 

ETA: If you're dating men you're not attracted to, why WOULD you want it to work out? I've been there - you hear it's a Numbers Game and out of desperation you go on those dates - let me save you some time and tell you to stick to your standards, at least don't date someone you don't fancy!

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I think I may be clingy because I am really keen to have a relationship. I have had sooooo much rejection and been single all my life. I see all my friends have fairly smooth transitions into relationships from dating where the guy is besotted by them and everything goes relatively well without drama. I don't think I am not as good as them, this is what puzzles me in fact. People tell me I am not average and I do believe it. I do believe I have a lot to offer a man and would be a great catch, but when I get knocked back time and again I start to wonder what the flaw is that is holding me back.

 

Hi Ammy,

 

I hate this limbo zone when the other person's signals are confusing, leaving you with the question of what move to make. But before going into what move ....

 

I'm glad you have that self-belief, (as I've found), that is indispensable. But I differ from other posters who may equate being keen to be in a relationship as being the same as being clingy. There are some schools of thought out there (someone mentioned Law of Attraction), but someone tell me this: How is it possible to go on a 1st date, 2nd etc with someone and then put up some kind of pretence that you don't want a relationship? Turning down offers expecting to be asked again, trying to make him wonder by not returning calls -- all this is the realm of game-playing, which I know that you never want to do anyway!

 

As far as controlling your own thoughts goes, here I'm reading that a lack of response for a couple of days on texts, lack of forward plans has got you wondering if he's 'cooling'. Think of it though: how about if this is the normal course for him? His MO of not moving too fast physically would indicate he's of the shyer variety; so how about if he is just someone whose idea of space is meeting once a week plus not keeping his girl informed of everything he is doing (hence no response after bike ride).

 

The dilemma with shy (or inexperienced) people, is that asking for more contact may scare them off AND not saying anything, accepting their level of low contact risks giving them the opposite signal that you are not interested. Shy / introverted / non-outgoing people will then interpret it as a sign to cut their own losses and rapidly withdraw.

 

Can I suggest that one course of action right now, would be to curb your own runaway thoughts inside yourself ... but not blurt out a full-blown r'ship talk at this early stage? Simply indicate your availability by thinking of specific things to do /dates to go on, suggesting them to him and waiting for a response. Yes, in a way, "be the man" for a while. No need to pressure him for more than one contact a week, just a case of you taking the reins for a while. If he still does not recirocate, take you up on offers once, twice etc ... then its the time for walking away.

 

The only thing I can think of being a problem (other than him just simply not thinking I'm so great) is that I come accross too "easy to get" (not in a sex way, but in a relationship way). I am too nice, I will drive him places, I will pay for things, I am constantly interested in whatever stuff he wants to talk about (although I do talk about myself a lot too - I have an interesting life and stuff to share). I think however I come accross as too eager to please.. and I am, because I have learnt I can lose affection very quickly in the past. I fear that if I don't try hard enough, I will lose it even quicker. I know this is probably wrong, but it is also not something I can see as a cardinal sin! The annoying thing is, he has been SUPER keen and "easy to get" himself up until now. He kept asking me out, emailing back within an hour, texting me... and now as soon as I reciprocate to the same level (not more) I feel like I'm being pushy...

 

> as soon as I reciprocate to the same level ....

 

Boy, have I had this nonsense more than once. Women who make overtures that they're interested, then the moment I put a line in the sand indicating that I am as well, it's like the attention goes to their head and they have to make a point of proving how unavailable they are ..

 

But anyway ..

 

I happen to know what it's like to have that underlying fear of losing affection. But if that comes out as you picking up the bill every time, offering to drive - there's no harm in cutting back on that. Playfully suggesting that it's his turn to drive, for example, you know what I mean. As you've read from my earlier posts, this is a devil to do with women - especially those who have the spoilt princess mentality. But as the girl asking a man to do it (when she has led the way already) is not too much of a demand. It seriously isn't! Believing that it's valid can do a lot to bolster your confidence.

 

After all of it, I also know that it sucks to create confidence 'out of a vaccum'. I mean, in a recent thread of mine, this is what pissed me off about what they wrote: many people, even if they had some romantic failures, can rely on their past successes to bolster their confidence. What about for people who have had fewer (or no) successes, no great loves? It seems, people like me (and maybe to some extent, you) have to create that confidence out of self-belief - not past track record.

 

Hey, don't know if some of that hit the mark - but just wanted to write about your situation.

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I do agree I am irrational to some extent... PMS and a history of OCD/Depression doesn't help... I know I catastrophise and have irrational core beliefs that impact on my way of viewing the situation... although sometimes I think I predict doom more readily than others, I have experienced a lot of rejection, hence to me it is a likely outcome. I know I need to try not to be so negative, and be more fun and normal and men will like me more.

 

Btw dinner was with my friends, not his. We met his friends last week. During dinner I am not aware of anything that went wrong, and given that he took my hand under the table during the later part of dinner, I'm assuming from his angle nothing went wrong either. I don't think anything has happened to change his mind either way. He is still contacting me - initiated by him post dinner. I just don't feel he's interested enough in me and/or lacks the skills to show me he is.

 

Oh and I don't date guys I'm not attracted to. I meant that if I meet a guy and I don't find them attractive and then they are clingy and desperate, I find them more annoying / dislikable, whereas if I meet a guy I find attractive (physically and personality) then even if he is super clingy I am okay with it. I have not lowered my standards that far yet. I still reject men who I don't feel an interest in. Hence why I find men I want to date few and far between and cling on when I do find one I actually like.

 

I don't mean to combat advice, I know I argue the point too much, but this is how I genuinely feel. If I thought I could accept the advice without these interjections, then I would.

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply, I do appreciate it.

 

Ammy

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My daughter has a First Class degree in Psychology and has also found men slow to ask her out/date her long term, although she is very like you - beautiful, high achieving, full life... She moved to Italy and gets asked out DAILY. Perhaps yo're in the wrong country!

 

Speranza, not to undermine your daughter, who I'm sure is a catch ... but in Italy, men make a career out of asking out anything that breathes and wears a skirt. Tell her not to let it get to her head.

 

I have two Italian guy friends who've joked with me that in the UK, in their cases, they have to spend a shedload of time convincing people that they are not d***s on legs trying it on with every woman who walks into the room. Or piazza.

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OK - well this puts a different light on things - I have a close male friend with OCD who has similar problems.

 

You know, it could be as simple as re-framing your anxieties when they surface by taking a step back and going into 'observer' mode, laughing a little at yourself and saying, "Wooa! Look at Ms Overthinker! There she goes again!" tolerate it but don't buy into it.

 

Does that make any sense? My friend is a lovely guy but I have seen him sabotage relationships time and time again by telling me someone has lost interest when she obviously hasn't. He is probably a lot 'worse' (more ruled by his OCD) than you are, but perhaps there's some insight there?

 

And no - I am only talking in terms of 'accidentally coming accross as desperate' being clingy, not wanting a healthy relationship.

 

I did go through a phase of attracting comitmentphobes, which was awful because several times they pushed things ahead quickly (not sexually, in terms of meeting) and talked about going on holidays - in all cases I said we could get to that at some point, but it was too late - they freaked themselves out by going too fast and ran away!

 

BUT!!!! I did eventually come to see that I had indeed attracted people who were reflecting something I'd hidden well from myself - I was afraid of that committed stage, worried I'd think the grass was greener, doubting myself, thinking I'd be a disappointment... I had loads of reasons to 'choose' guys who wouldn't commit.

 

RELAX, RELAX, RELAX. Do you do yoga? Learn to have a quiet mind (easier said than done I know!) Don't be ruled by your PMS, learn to surf emotions and ride those hormonal waves until you can BE... be yourself, even if you have PMS

 

It takes time but it's perfectly possible. Good luck!

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Speranza, not to undermine your daughter, who I'm sure is a catch ... but in Italy, men make a career out of asking out anything that breathes and wears a skirt. Tell her not to let it get to her head.

 

I have two Italian guy friends who've joked with me that in the UK, in their cases, they have to spend a shedload of time convincing people that they are not d***s on legs trying it on with every woman who walks into the room. Or piazza.

 

Yes - but it's a numbers game, and some of them are really nice guys!

 

She has been appalled to discover that one of the reasons they like English girls is that they have the reputation in Europe of sleeping with anyone who asks, isn't that so sad. Yet when you see the English at play in Greece etc, puking over pavements and fighting, you have to ask the politically incorrect question, is this simply what happens when a country's genes are packed with the history of violent invasion?!

 

ETA - so far she's dated guys from a few different countries, I don't think it's just Italians, I think it's just that English men are particularly awful at asking women out!

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I think it's just that English men are particularly awful at asking women out!

 

I try to imagine Eric Idle or Simon Pegg with the suave approach...it's clunky in my mind.

 

To the OP: Like other posters have said, you may have some anxiety/over-thinking to work on. But also, there could be some things the guy needs to work on himself. Perhaps he suddenly realized there at dinner what would be required of him in a committed relationship and he got scared and bailed. He might have been thinking, "Oh, no...I'm going to have to cut down on my bicycle time...or I won't be able to have as many beers with the boys... or she'll be telling me I can't go cliff diving anymore over the inlet with the jagged rocks." There are so many variables, you can't really say. So don't put it all on you.

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Did your friends talk about weddings/relationships a lot during dinner or make "jokes" about how cute you two were together? It might have been a little overwhelming for him and he also had the early bike ride so he needed a little space and to wind down . Then you were a little pushy with the offer of a ride and he probably sensed you were waiting for an invitation.

 

I also think it's possible he has another date planned - are you two actually exclusive?

 

I agree that if he is put off by what you did then he probably isn't right for you - it wasn't overly pushy from what you wrote but you might have missed the vibes.

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I try to imagine Eric Idle or Simon Pegg with the suave approach...it's clunky in my mind.

LOL

 

To the OP: Like other posters have said, you may have some anxiety/over-thinking to work on. But also, there could be some things the guy needs to work on himself. Perhaps he suddenly realized there at dinner what would be required of him in a committed relationship and he got scared and bailed. He might have been thinking, "Oh, no...I'm going to have to cut down on my bicycle time...or I won't be able to have as many beers with the boys... or she'll be telling me I can't go cliff diving anymore over the inlet with the jagged rocks." There are so many variables, you can't really say. So don't put it all on you.

Exactly. I was meaning that it may be him too - but all we can do is sort ourselves out!

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OK, he did go out with you Friday night, so that is a weekend date.

 

And honestly, if he has to get up at 6 a.m. for an 8 hour bike ride, i can understand why he didn't want you to come into his house. And i can understand why he didn't want to go out Saturday night if he'd just ridden a bike for 8 hours... he's bound to be very tired.

 

So nothing he has done makes me think he has lost interest in you.

 

The other thing you have to be careful of is hovering over him looking for 'progress', especially is this. Each date/experience is not going to top the prior one, especially if he is getting comfortable and thinking of you more as a girlfriend. He is going to want to do other things (like bike rides) and will not spend every minute with you.

 

I'd just let it go and try to relax. If you hover over him constantly expecting 'progress', he will feel controlled.

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Did your friends talk about weddings/relationships a lot during dinner or make "jokes" about how cute you two were together? It might have been a little overwhelming for him and he also had the early bike ride so he needed a little space and to wind down . Then you were a little pushy with the offer of a ride and he probably sensed you were waiting for an invitation.

 

I also think it's possible he has another date planned - are you two actually exclusive?

 

I agree that if he is put off by what you did then he probably isn't right for you - it wasn't overly pushy from what you wrote but you might have missed the vibes.

 

Ya, I've had this before. There wasn't anything "obviously clingy" about the guy I was seeing for a little while. However, he had a lot of expectations from me. If he drove me home, he drove really slowly and took the 'scenic' route and then tried to suggest that we could go somewhere else to hang out even though I told him I had to get up early in the morning!! When he dropped me off, he was hesitant to go, hoping I'd invite him in.

 

It was REALLY annoying. I felt it was extremely selfish and was completely put off by that.

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He said he would take the bus, but I insisted, hoping we could spend a bit longer together. I dropped him at his place (approx 15-20 mins out of my way) and when I did, he didn't invite me in, despite knowing I had no other plans. He didn't even mention that he would like to but he had to get up early the next day or anything. It was just "Okay have fun tomorrow, bye"... and then "I'll talk to you tomorrow."

 

 

 

I know that it would annoy me a little bit if someone insisted they give me a ride. Maybe he just really wanted to be on his own that night. You've only been dating for a month. People need space and they need time to get to know one another. Stop comparing your relationship to how your friends' relationships started. Everyone is different and you only know what their version of the story is, not how they actually felt and thought during the beginnings of their own relationships.

 

You're always predicting the worst, then your behavior reflects that attitude, then you're surprised when it turns out that way. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, not a prediction on your part.

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Hey Ammy, I wouldn't jump to conclusions yet. You've had lots of positive experiences with this guy and just one day of not "as" positive experiences and you're assuming the worst. Just go about your day and see how it goes. You can't control what someone else is going to do but you can control yourself. So don't get worked up about it yet (I know easier said than done), but just keep yourself busy and distracted and that will 1) make you feel better and 2) make you more appealing since you won't be so readily available.

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The problem with starting something off at full throttle from the gate--the 24/7 contact, seeing one another often--is that the first person to become exhausted by it is viewed as 'pulling back', when they're just trying to reset their own lives into a healthy pattern of normalcy.

 

It's been a couple DAYS, Ammy. The guy needs to catch his breath.

 

You do sound as though you risk smothering the guy, and internalizing something as simple as him needing to turn in early before an 8 HOUR bike ride is destructive. (What would you say to a client who did that?)

 

I don't mean to come off as harsh--I think you know I'm on your side, but you're rushing this thing, and you're doing the kind of mind-drilling that will have you coming out sideways to blow it.

 

Please pull back and regroup; you'll thank yourself later.

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Thanks everyone for your replies and advice. After reading it all, and having a good night's sleep I have woken up with a fresher perspective... I am pushing things too fast because of my inability to cope with uncertainty/doubt. I am going to pull back a little, still be receptive and responsive but nowhere near as OTT available.

 

BTW I got a text from him this morning "Hey Sleepy Head, what are you up to today?"... So I guess he isn't over me after all...

 

Ammy

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Reading your opening post, I didn't get the impression AT ALL that he wasn't interested in you. I think you're misunderstanding his actions because you're expecting the worst. He seems like a decent, normal guy, balancing his interest in you with his own, individual pursuits. In other words, a perfectly healthy, valid, mature outlook and approach. I'd recommend you try to relax a little and take him at face value. You seem FAR too quick to predict failure, which, as others have pointed out, can be a self-fulfilling (and self-defeating) prophecy.

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He just asked me when I'm free next weekend. Seems he just likes to take it slow... I am going to step back and a bit and stop worrying about it. Luckily I'm back at uni full time this week so will have a lot more to worry about.

 

Ammy

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