Why would a man stay with a women he doesn't love for 4 years?

[I_Speak_Jive]

So I will have to go against the tide a little bit here, but honest to God LazyDaisy, I feel that a collective pity party at ENA is the last thing you need to be throwing yourself right now.

 

From all the threads you have opened in the past it seems pretty clear that the relationship lasted for 4 years because you continued to pursue him every single time you two broke up and did not give up until you got back together. So it's not like he was, I don't know, stringing you along for years and years. You went NC, he was cool with that. It drove you nuts. You had to have him back. And so it went on for years.

 

He may be asking himself a similar question: "why would a woman whose demands I cannot meet, and who knows for a fact I cannot meet them, insist on constantly breaking up with me over it and then getting back together with me for a whole four years?"

 

The granddaughter comment sounds harsh and insensitive. But then again, your past threads show a high level of emotional instability from you when it comes to his family -how you cause drama, create fights and put him in no-win situations when it comes to spending time with his own family. Maybe it was just not about you, his granddaughter being in hospital. Maybe he just didn't want to handle you in that situation... once again.

 

I think intense soul-searching, learning and acceptance will help you far more than a "poor me the victim" attitude here. You were quite determined to diagnose yourself with a Borderline Personality Disorder, and I hope that self-diagnosis has at least taught you that eluding your responsibility over your own emotional well-being only leads to disaster down the line.

[nina2009]

There is one of the possible answers why the man who doesn't love you would stay with you over years while continuing saying he loves you: link removed

 

In a nutshell it is when a man gets energy supply from you. But since you are interchangeable he doesn't really hold on you too much. Plus energy might be positive and negative, so while you are on a break and continue feeling miserable he gets his "food" anyway. Like a vampire.

 

I am not saying it is the case, I am just saying it is one of the possible theories. Wat goes along with this theory: the fact that you were trying to break away and kept coming back - very common for this type of relationship. In one post you say that he treated you like crap and in another I read that you had very loving relationship. Also this mixed impressions are very common for this type of relationship. But it might be something else

[FreedomRing]

I'm glad someone has decided to speak the truth here - I couldn't bring myself to post something similar that I have written repeatedly on the OP's threaads.

 

Wholeheartedly agree.

[LazyDaisy]

I don't know that I have BPD. I feel I have some symptoms, but I also have symptoms of PMS. I also feel much of my actions are reactions to the way he treats me.

I didn't post this on here, but once I broke up with him for 5 months. There was no contact at all, I ran into him someplace and we got back together. There was another time that I changed my phone number and he was waiting for my outside my son's daycare and begged me to go back with him. So its not always me running to him. I do not in any way shape or form force him to be with me. He repeatedly tells me things will get better. I never said I was a victim. I know I have problems too. And if he doesn't want to "handle" me in certain situations, he shouldn't be with me. I'm not a doll that he can just put on the shelf at his convenience.

[Ms Darcy]

The granddaughter comment sounds harsh and insensitive. But then again, your past threads show a high level of emotional instability from you when it comes to his family -how you cause drama, create fights and put him in no-win situations when it comes to spending time with his own family. Maybe it was just not about you, his granddaughter being in hospital. Maybe he just didn't want to handle you in that situation... once again.

 

I know his comments are not easy to hear, but I would encourage you to consider this passage especially. I believe I remember your story, the drama with his ex, the drama with his daughters. You felt left out? He felt like he didn't want you to be a part and that his time with the kids was sacred and separate? I don't think that he trusts you. For whatever reason, the pattern with the kids has cemented for the past few years and now it is what it is - you and his family don't mix.

 

Whether you go back to this relationship or not, I do hope that you understand that he doesn't trust you with his family. That he doesn't consider you family. Keep your eyes open since you have a history of getting back together with him.

[LazyDaisy]

I know his comments are not easy to hear, but I would encourage you to consider this passage especially. I believe I remember your story, the drama with his ex, the drama with his daughters. You felt left out? He felt like he didn't want you to be a part and that his time with the kids was sacred and separate? I don't think that he trusts you. For whatever reason, the pattern with the kids has cemented for the past few years and now it is what it is - you and his family don't mix.

 

Whether you go back to this relationship or not, I do hope that you understand that he doesn't trust you with his family. That he doesn't consider you family. Keep your eyes open since you have a history of getting back together with him.

 

Hi Ms Darcy, yes this is correct. But over the past 3 or 4 months he has brought his daughters over my house for dinner and we have gone out to dinner a few times and we have babysat his granddaughter a few times. So he has been making an effort. I think he just wants to keep me separate from his ex wife or rather she doesn't want me around. apparently they have an agreement with eachother that both don't bring their new SO around eachother. I think its very immature. I talked to his sister in law yesterday and found this out. I hadn't talked to his sister in law in 4 years. I texted her and she called me and we talked for 4 hours.

 

I also think that when he is having any kind of stress or crisis he can only focus on that one thing. He can't talk to me for any length of time. When I called him, instead of saying "hi daisy how are you?", I get a hello that sounds like he is in pain and only answered the phone out of duty. So then I hear that tone and I react defensively. If him and I are going to stay together we have to talk about these things when everything is calm. Maybe with a couples therapist. We are not speaking at all right now. I'm not sure if I want to go back to this or cut my losses, take my chances with finding someone else. I am evaluating it from all angles.

[Ms Darcy]

Just a couple of questions/thoughts. Why is it immature for his ex wife not to want to be around you? And most men are one-track focused when stressed. If I call my bf and he responds like that, I don't take it personally. I might call him less and leave it up to him to call me when he's ready. It sounds like you don't have other things going on in your life and his reactions are directly stressful to you. That's not the key to a healthy relationship.

[LazyDaisy]

Just a couple of questions/thoughts. Why is it immature for his ex wife not to want to be around you? And most men are one-track focused when stressed. If I call my bf and he responds like that, I don't take it personally. I might call him less and leave it up to him to call me when he's ready. It sounds like you don't have other things going on in your life and his reactions are directly stressful to you. That's not the key to a healthy relationship.

 

I do have other things going on in my life. Maybe I'm wrong but this is my thought about the whole thing - I think after 4 years we should be living together and then when he spends the entire day at the hospital with his family, he would come home to our house, fill me in on things, I could take care of his other needs while he is busy, laundry, cook his meals, etc. Instead, I haven't seen or talked to him the entire time she has been sick. He spends the day at hospital then goes to his own home has to catch up on his errands, and laundry and what not, and then the next day he goes back to hospital. I can't help him with anything because we don't live together. I feel two people living together, working together helping eachother, sharing feelings is what makes a healthy relationship.

 

His ex wife lives with her new boyfriend, and this is how it is for her, so maybe that is why her boyfriend is ok with things.

[Ms Darcy]

So you do have other friends and people to talk to? I recall loneliness was an issue before.

 

There is a lot going on in your statement. First, and I hate to put it this way, but living together is a committment. He's made it clear that he doesn't want that with you. Second, that's an awful lot that you want to do for him. You want to spend your day taking care of his needs? That's a recipe for disaster. He may not communicate with you as you want and then you'd feel even more resentment and he'd be even more distant. Third, he's been married before. He knows what it's like to live with someone. It's a huge adjustment and it can be hard to get space. Fourth, it's not unreasonable to want to live together after four years. But you need to make your desires known and walk away when the other person refuses to do so.

 

The more you write, the less I think this man is in love with you. He cares about you, is attracted to you, misses you if you are gone for months, but is NOT in love with you. And so you spend hours upon hours of energy trying to 'fix' a relationship that isn't there. I hope one day you find the courage to move on.

[LazyDaisy]

He makes it clear he doesn't want to live together right now, he says later when his daughter is off on her own. She is away at school and is only home during the summer. The ex wife has a huge house with an apt in the basement, no reason she can't stay with her. He doesn't want to disrupt her life and her bedroom. I say be an adult and tell her that is the way it is going to be. I think its just an excuse. Maybe he really doesn't love me. He says he does. But if he did he would do what I need to be happy. I have waited 4 years.

 

I never said I was going to sit around all day taking care of him. What I am saying is that if we shared a life, shared a household, we would spend less time doing household chores, and more time talking. More time sharing. Maybe thats not what marriage is like. But it is for my parents, it is for my brother and many of my aunts and uncles and many of my friends. And I would like to try it.

 

No, I don't have any close friends anymore and no one really to talk to, that is why I come on here. But I have a child, a career, I am going to school to get my MBA, I'm on my last class. I have acquaintances through my son, bday parties and so on and I have a lot of family.

 

I made my desires clear many times, but I have not walked away. I told him this morning my feelings and that I am leaving him. I told him I don't even want to discuss it anymore. I told him that I wish him well and that he finds someone who wants what he wants, which is simply to date. Did I mean that - probably not. I didn't give him an ultimatum, I just said I know he doesn't want or can't offer what I want. He never even responded. Thats fine, I really didn't expect him to. What I expect is for him to think about it and come back only if he is willing to change. If not, we won't be together. I am prepared for that. I won't like it, I will be heartbroken, but its a chance I have to take.

[ramsickle1369]

because men are lazy and prefer comfort. So long as you didn't cause any turmoil or make any demnads, he would have stayed forever, likely. And at 48, he's not looking to get married. Don't fix it if it ain't broke.

 

People say you're better off without him, but that never quite makes it any better.

[Ms Darcy]

He makes it clear he doesn't want to live together right now, he says later when his daughter is off on her own. The ex wife has a huge house with an apt in the basement, no reason she can't stay with her. He doesn't want to disrupt her life and her bedroom. I think its just an excuse.

 

I think you are right.

 

 

Maybe he really doesn't love me. He says he does. But if he did he would do what I need to be happy.

 

I think you are right; at least he would discuss compromise.

 

What I am saying is that if we shared a life, shared a household, we would spend less time doing household chores, and more time talking. More time sharing. Maybe thats not what marriage is like. But it is for my parents, it is for my brother and many of my aunts and uncles and many of my friends. And I would like to try it.

 

He said he doesn't want marriage. Repeatedly.

 

No, I don't have any close friends anymore and no one really to talk to.

 

So who is your emotional support?

 

I made my desires clear many times, but I have not walked away.

 

The truest statement of them all.

[ramsickle1369]

What I am saying is that if we shared a life, shared a household, we would spend less time doing household chores, and more time talking. More time sharing. Maybe thats not what marriage is like. But it is for my parents, it is for my brother and many of my aunts and uncles and many of my friends. And I would like to try it.

 

DO NOT BE MISLED... things do not get "BETTER" when living together. They get harder. The man has made it clear that he wants his "space" for whatever reason it may be. If you did manage to convince him to moving in, he'd only become more distant and eventually resent your being there. ANd then of course you'd resent his distance and fighting would escalate. Moving in or having a child (just for reference) escalates the differences in personalities and causes MORE strain on the relationship, not less.

 

Do not be fooled into romanticisizing what isn't.

[LazyDaisy]

DO NOT BE MISLED... things do not get "BETTER" when living together. They get harder. The man has made it clear that he wants his "space" for whatever reason it may be. If you did manage to convince him to moving in, he'd only become more distant and eventually resent your being there. ANd then of course you'd resent his distance and fighting would escalate. Moving in or having a child (just for reference) escalates the differences in personalities and causes MORE strain on the relationship, not less.

 

Do not be fooled into romanticisizing what isn't.

 

 

Ramsickle, I am not sure what you are trying to say and would really like to know your opinion and where you are coming from. Are you saying I should just keep dating him and not worry about moving in together? Or are you saying that I shouldn't be with him at all?

I do think he loves me but does not want to move in together at least not now. I think he tried marriage, had a bad one and is not interested in doing it again. I think he like to see me and my son as much as he can. And I think he enjoys our company.

I can't seem to get this fantasy out of my head that marriage/living together would be great. But maybe I should just be happy dating him, make my own life outside of him and just be content with that. I spent the day alone with my son yesterday and had a fabulous time.

[ramsickle1369]

Daisy,

 

What I'm saying is that after 4 years, he hasn't wanted to move in (gathering from your post). Four years is plenty of time to decide if he wants it or not. And people will make sure you know how they feel if they really want something. I understand the fantasy, I really do. I have just ended a 4 year relationship with a guy that continually was running away with total fear in his heart whenever I mentioned anything relating to a relationship.

 

It sounds to me that he's not wanting that and he's stringing you along in order to keep himself happy and at peace. How is he acting now? Is he trying to get you back? Is he making promises? How has he been with the promises he's made in the past? Has he kept them?

 

What I'm saying is that since things don't seem to be working for you--since you ended it, they aren't going to change without drastic measures. You can't make someone wany what you do just because you feel it strongly enough.

 

I completely understand the fantasy. I have been stuck in one since the day I laid eyes on the man I love. I tried for 4 years to make him overcome his fears but he simply is incappable. It is extremely hard to let go of that fantasy in your head. I'm sorry, but I just don't think this guy has your best interests at heart. Sorry....

[LazyDaisy]

Thanks. I guess where I am struggling is - I know he loves me. He says things like he wants to be together forever and that we will live together someday and maybe even get married. I am already 41, the dreams of a big wedding, a white dress and a husband, kids, the big house with the white picket fence are long gone. I can't and don't want to have another child. He lives right around the corner from me, he works shift work - which might bother me if we lived together. I know he would never cheat and probably will be with me forever if I stay. We go out to dinner a few times a week, we spend time together with my son, he is great company. When he is over we don't watch tv or ignore eachother, we are engaged in conversation the entire time. He is very affectionate and always has his arms around me. Am I missing out on more? Is marriage/living together necessary? Can we be successful as we are? I do not worry that some day he will leave me and I will be alone, that can happen even if you are married anyway.

 

My mother tells me I should just build up my own life (friends, hobbies, schook volunteer) enjoy the company a few times a week and leave it at that. From my track record she believes I am a committment phobic. I've never had a normal relationship and at this point I'm not even sure that I COULD live with someone. I should also point out that I have a father that is completely emotionally unavailable. My mom and him are still married, they make it work, mom my always complains about his lack of emotional support but he provides for her financially, he cooks and cleans, and they keep eachother company.

 

You wanted to know if he is trying to get me back, he sent me texts saying he loves me he wants to salvage the relationship and he wants to go to couples counciling. He said that when we fight he becomes very depressed. He has also told me many times that he doesn't know what he would do without me. I told him last night I would make an appt with a councelor, but honestly I don't know where to find a good one.

 

Also, as I have said, he has made many improvements over the years. He spends more time with me, he is bringing his family around, we are spending more time with his side of the family - his parents and brothers. He babysate for me once and has offered to do it regularly so I can make regular appts with a therapist. I have to give him credit where credit is due. My son is absolutely crazy about him. If I break up with him it will break his little heart. I trust him around my son, I'm not sure I would ever be able to trust another man around him.

 

Also, as you can tell from my many posts, I am not easy to get along with. I have anger issues, jealousy issues, I suffer from depression and mood swings, especially with PMS. I have had fights with my family were we didn't speak for months. I went to a therapist for anger for about a year - it didn't do much good. In general, I am a shy person that likes my privacy - I guess you could say introverted. I've got good qualties too - I'm just pointing out some of the negative.

 

These are the types of things I think about when trying to decide whether its better to stay, or to go and maybe find better, or maybe worse or maybe nothing.

[michaelhopes]

Lazy, I think you tend to be somewhat self destructive and your emotions are all over the place....Thus you should be very careful with the advice you get here. Your man is going to take some more time to come out of his cave. I bet life has crapped on him pretty hard and this is the only way he knows how to keep together whatever he has left and hopes to have. You ping ponging all over the place doesnt exactly help,yet I'm sure he loves you and doesnt want to hurt you in anyway. Your situation could be way worse...Most of the people on this forum and those answering your thread have had their hearts ripped out and stomped on.....

[LazyDaisy]

Lazy, I think you tend to be somewhat self destructive and your emotions are all over the place....Thus you should be very careful with the advice you get here. Your man is going to take some more time to come out of his cave. I bet life has crapped on him pretty hard and this is the only way he knows how to keep together whatever he has left and hopes to have. You ping ponging all over the place doesnt exactly help,yet I'm sure he loves you and doesnt want to hurt you in anyway. Your situation could be way worse...Most of the people on this forum and those answering your thread have had their hearts ripped out and stomped on.....

 

Thanks Michael. I too have had my heart ripped out in the past. I tried to commit suicide after my last serious relationship ended (2002). Perhaps that is why I am so wary. Some of the stories on here just break my heart. There are men and women on here that write of the most toxic situations I have ever heard of. Makes me feel like an idiot for complaining.

[michaelhopes]

Youre not an idiot.....just someone looking for answers.

Try to be objective with the advice that you get here and dont be one of those women looking for relationship answers that runs to her divorced/single/unhappy girlfriends.....Thats a quick way to load up that pre-emptive gun.........

[Ms Darcy]

Daisy, there is a tone to this advice that makes me wary. You are getting advice from people who are from all spectrums - singlehood, happiness, etc. And to me, it seems to suggest that turning to other women is detrimental to the male-female relationship.

 

In my opinion, the majority of the advice you have been getting has been a reflection of people's experience that are rooted in reality. People note that you have been together for four years, that you want something he's not giving you, that you are unhappy. Yes, put yourself in his shoes at times. Yes, think about the good things in the relationship. And yes, take the advice you get with a grain of salt. (Which I know you do because for a year, people have told you to leave this guy who seems to make you miserable and yet you stay). But I would caution you to heed advice of someone who would assume that all your advice-givers are so-called heartbroken spinsters.

 

If the response to you mentioning that you almost ended your life because of the end of a relationship is to say don't listen to lonely women, that's ignoring YOU and your feelings. YOU are miserable. If you could lower your expectations and be happy, then by all means go for it. But you need to be happy first. As much as you try to say you are happy, you only describe moments of true happiness with him or your son. That's a little worrisome. No one wants you to go back to 2002.

 

I'm happy you are finally considering therapy. Sometimes couples therapy is the only way to get the person that needs it iindividually in the door.

[michaelhopes]

Lazy, I have been following your threads from the beginning. Usually I just lurk and dont post in these forums, but in your case I have a strong feeling of been there/done that and I like to delude myself into thinking that I might have some valuable insight for you. In one of your earlier threads you mentioned that I sounded a lot like your boyfriend and thats an astute observation on your part. You sound and react a lot like my LTR girlfriend that dumped me after listening to her friends(half of them bent out of shape from their own failed relationships) that had only heard her overly emotional complaints about our relationship. They told her I was the problem and leaving me would fix her pain. 10 years later she is single after being thru a couple of truly bad relationships. We have become pretty good friends and she never stops telling me that the biggest mistake she made in her life was listening to her "friends".

I never said that all your advice-givers are so-called heartbroken spinsters or that turning to other women is detrimental to the male-female relationship. I do think however that a lot of responses to your posts are knee jerk reactions and some are definitely based on being bent out of shape from previous relationships.

We both know that you like to break out that "pre-emptive gun" faster than Jesse James so I just want you to be as objective as possible.

 

Yes, put yourself in his shoes at times. Yes, think about the good things in the relationship. And yes, take the advice you get with a grain of salt.

I havent heard too much of that at all except from me and perhaps that angle comes up after I have posted.

 

And yes, take the advice you get with a grain of salt. (Which I know you do because for a year, people have told you to leave this guy who seems to make you miserable and yet you stay)

I dont think that you are a "take the advice you get with a grain of salt" type of person. Your emotions,thoughts and reactions tend to be on either extreme as opposed to the middle ground. Am I wrong here?

[LazyDaisy]

Michael, you are not wrong. I am a very emotional person, I react first and think later. I do see his side, but it usually takes me a while and by then I have already picked a fight.

I know that many of the people on here give advise based on their own experiences which is often a broken heart. But I like posting on here because it is somewhat objective and I feel it is a good sampling of my peers. Kind of like what you might get from a typical jury panel. I always listen to it although I might not always follow it. I know some people get frustrated because they tell me the same thing more than once and I don't follow it. But matters of the heart just are not that simple. Especially when you get older. When I was younger (and I hate to admit this) I had many short term relationships,too many to count, if I found one thing wrong I didn't stay. Then I had a 10 year which was insane. I didn't even love the guy and I couldn't leave him so you can imagine how hard it would be for me to leave someone I do love.

 

I'm looking forward to therapy and I think it will be good for both of us.

[ramsickle1369]

this is very true that people all have differing histories. If there's a chance that you want things to work out, and you BOTH are willing participants, then maybe all you both really need is an objective third party listening to both of you. Therapists aren't all a great fit, it can take two or three before you really feel that things are progressing. Either way, therapy is a wonderful way to see where YOUR head really is and what it is YOU are looking for. Sort of a mirror of sorts that can regurgitate your words back to you.

 

I personally have fallen into the "ripped out, thrown in a blender, rebuilt and then repeat" category. I am EXTREMELY jaded by one person in particualr, and have never had a "real" relationship. They were always ugly in some way (abusive, neglect, user/abuser). So while I do see that perfect day someday, I simply cannot believe it will ever happen for me. I was so deeply in love with a horrible CP guy that was also narcissistic (so the therapist says). I do think that you must decipher the info from here and all your other sources and come to your OWN decision.

 

Personally, I am so jaded that anger issues are ruling my every day. While I don't think a therapist will do me any good (feels like i'm past that) maybe it's worth a shot for me? I don't like feeling so enraged and all over the place. Before this man I was slightly emotional around PMS times, but now, it's all I can do to not break the law. I've never been hurt so deeply and I don't know how to overcome.

 

So listen to your heart, use your logic, see the couples counselor and see what happens. Many factors to consider, but do figure out your own core needs above and beyond all else.

 

Good luck my friend. Best to you both.

[michaelhopes]

Lazy.....let the marriage/living together thing go for a while.....You've broken up with him how many times now? I believe last count was 22,805 times? You've got to usher in and help facilitate a period of peace, for you and him.

You love him and he loves you. Therapy is a good start and I hope and believe that the two of you can work this out. Not today....Not tomorrow....Not the next day......but some day soon...and that's a hell of a lot more than most on this forum and accross the globe have....

In your corner........

Michael Hopes

[LazyDaisy]

Thanks to both of you. Ramsickle, I hope you change your mind about therapy. Believe me, I have had some really bad experiences with guys I thought I loved and a couple of heartbreaks I didn't think I would ever recover from. As time passed I saw they weren't right for me anyway.

Michael, you have some very good points. There hasn't been a really long period of time for him and I that I would call peaceful. I think the longest we went without a major argument was probably 3 months. Maybe if I give him peace and show him that a lilfe with me would be calm and without issue he will allow himself to get closer. I also had a talk with my son today - he is only 5 but things became really clear after speaking to him - he loves my BF and wants us to make up. But through this conversation it really dawned on me that the more my BF is around and the more focus I put on him, the less my son gets my full attention. So maybe for now, while my son is so little its better if my BF or any other man isn't around so much.