OK, advice please....

[quirky]

This is tricky. I know how much you want her. If you're up for some tough work try this out. You need to have a plan. Of what you are gonna do about work and of how you are gonna sort your issues out, for example suggestions for handling arguments. Basically you need to be able to reassure her that you're worth the risk, that she'll be safe. I'm not sure you're at this stage yet as you haven't been NC for too long and haven't gained enough strength back. The good thing is that she doesn't seem resentful. The bad thing is that as others say she may be feeling all this but still understanding deep down that you and her won't work. Do you think there's a chance from your end to reignite that faith in your love? Because that's the only think that could possibly work now since you are both tired. Otherwise long NC and faith.

[ElChup]

Well. I spent four hours on the phone to her last night. She almost gave in to my suggestion of dating again, to the extent that she was asking how we'd do it, before going on to convince herself that it was a bad idea.

 

However, this morning I get a text from her asking if my proposal still stands and that she needs to think about it for a few days.

 

Well, at least I can say I tried.

 

Thoughts?

[ToF]

Hey Chup,

 

Yes, you did try. And kudos for having the courage to do so

 

I'm really sorry, but I still think she is messing with your head. There is a miniscule possibility that she will change her mind, but that's it. Her wishy-washy attitude confirms that you might not ever get a straight answer from her on this one.

 

-TOF

[1guygirl]

Well. I spent four hours on the phone to her last night. She almost gave in to my suggestion of dating again, to the extent that she was asking how we'd do it, before going on to convince herself that it was a bad idea.

 

However, this morning I get a text from her asking if my proposal still stands and that she needs to think about it for a few days.

 

Well, at least I can say I tried.

 

Thoughts?

 

right you tried - the cards are out there and now its a case of NC

 

give her alll the space she needs and then some, she knows how you feel, what you want and all the rest of it...let her bounce the ball in her court for a few days but dont leave it too long...one ended tennis jus doesnt work

[quirky]

to the extent that she was asking how we'd do it

she needs that sense of plan that I discussed at an earlier post

 

before going on to convince herself that it was a bad idea.

she's afraid.

 

This sounds like a reason against passion situation.

 

Well, at least I can say I tried.

 

What do you mean? This statement sounds fatalistic. You telling her that you love her is very important but I'm telling you she wants a plan, this will create a sense of safety for her to take the risk. That doesn't mean you are responsible for her happiness but that you want her by your side. Can you think of practical ways for this to blossom again? If you make the start she will later help I reckon.

 

Just my opinion.

[ElChup]

she needs that sense of plan that I discussed at an earlier post

 

 

she's afraid.

 

This sounds like a reason against passion situation.

 

 

 

What do you mean? This statement sounds fatalistic. You telling her that you love her is very important but I'm telling you she wants a plan, this will create a sense of safety for her to take the risk. That doesn't mean you are responsible for her happiness but that you want her by your side. Can you think of practical ways for this to blossom again? If you make the start she will later help I reckon.

 

Just my opinion.

I suppose I'm saying that if she doesn't go for it I at least tried my best to get her back.

 

As for a plan. I gave her a plan. It's her choice whether she wants it or not.

 

Anyhow, the latest is she has apparently bought a book on how to make hard decisions!!

 

So, at the very least, I know that I am not making a fool of myself.

 

....and quirky, you know as well as I do that if your other half righted those things that you didn't like you'd be together again. I think she feels the same.

[ElChup]

Ok, I'm confused. Still waiting to hear from her on what we discussed. She last said on Friday that she was still thinking it over.

 

Anyhow, today I get a text from her saying "Just wanted to say (for old times sake and all)...Happy Valentines Day !!"

 

What the hell is going on?????

[ElChup]

Any opinions?

[ElChup]

Please folks I really need an opinion on this.

[quirky]

did you reply to the text? I think it's a good sign she sent it, no?

[ElChup]

did you reply to the text? I think it's a good sign she sent it, no?

 

I did. I said under the circumstances I didn't know how to respond, but that I was thinking about her. She said that she was also thinking about me.

 

However, I have since text her to see if she has yet made up her mind about getting back together (as she said she wanted a week max to think it over and that is up today) and as yet there is no response, which says to me that she may be out on a date today. I don't know, but I wish she'd make her mind up so that I can either move on or make preps for how we're gonna go about getting back together. Don't like limbo land.

[ElChup]

Ok, so now she wants to see me next week to discuss a proposal. A proposal she says I may not be happy with.

 

I hope the proposal isn't that she is allowed to date others at the same time as me.

[HouseKitten]

Ouch. I can't see how if it's something you might not be happy with, it could be anything good.

 

My first thought was also 'other men'. I'll bet she's going to say 'we can start dating again and see how it goes, but I want to be able to date other guys at the same time'.

 

Have you any idea whether she's met someone? Because this sort of suggests she's got a couple of possibilities that she doesn't want to give up in case it doesn't work out with you.

[bish0p2004]

Yeah, this is definitely not a good sign. I saw this coming when she sent you a happy V-day wish instead of continuing the conversation you guys were having. She's obviously not as involved in intimate talks as much as you are and this is always a bad sign.

 

I would not meet up with her or continue talking to her in any way, unless you just need her to tell you again that it's over (even if she says what housekitty mentions, "I don't want us to end, but I want to date other men as well".....still, see this as the end of the relationship). But, that's just me. When my ex told me she had something she needed to tell me and that I wouldn't like it, it ended up being that she had started hanging out with another guy (aka dating).

 

So, unless you really want to hear that your break up is final, do yourself a favor and just move on. Go NC. Don't tell her, just do it and start moving on with your life.

 

I hate to say it, but your relationship is over and even if there is a possibility of reconciliation, it won't happen until maybe a couple of years down the line.

[ElChup]

It was my first reaction as well.

 

The only reason I have now agreed to go is that she has strong morals and certainly hasn't done anything like that before....plus her text also said she wasn't sure herself about her proposal. If someone was going to have their cake and eat it would they say such a thing?

[HouseKitten]

The only other thing I can think of that fits is that you both try and remain friends and in close contact, but date other people.

 

Either way, if she knows you're not likely to accept her proposal then I can't imagine it's something pleasant.

 

I would go along with the expectation of it being something you cannot accept. That way, if it's better than you thought then it's a nice surprise but if not, at least you're prepared.

[quirky]

Let's not predict doom, let's see what she has to say and then you take it from there. In the meantime try and gain as much confidence as you can from other activities. Limbo land sucks big deal..but it's not forever.

[ElChup]

The only other thing I can think of that fits is that you both try and remain friends and in close contact, but date other people.

 

Either way, if she knows you're not likely to accept her proposal then I can't imagine it's something pleasant.

 

I would go along with the expectation of it being something you cannot accept. That way, if it's better than you thought then it's a nice surprise but if not, at least you're prepared.

 

Yeah, have already decided to do that.

 

The remaining friends thing was something she suggested originally, but I refused, so she knows that's not on the table.

[ElChup]

Let's not predict doom, let's see what she has to say and then you take it from there. In the meantime try and gain as much confidence as you can from other activities. Limbo land sucks big deal..but it's not forever.

 

I agree, it's not like I have anything to lose, and in the meantime I can concentrate on a 2nd job interview I have this Friday.

[bish0p2004]

Let's not predict doom

 

lol...but, I can see this one coming a mile away. But, hopefully I'm wrong though.

 

El Chup, I know it's hard to refrain, but maybe it will give you the closure you need IF she says something you don't want to hear.

 

I wish you the best of luck.

[nina2009]

I find it is interesting development. I first read her letter and I had a few comments right away but I held them while reading the development. The development fit into my first impression about the letter. here is what comes to my mind:

 

I didn't know why you guys broke up and why she was writing this letter to you - obviously it was a response on something you wrote. So I can not give any comment on why she said everything she did and why she kept her letter so long.

 

Few things stand out in this letter:

1) In circles she repeats one thought over and over that she also thinks about you. She describes how she thinks, giving you pictures: she prays for you to find a job, she sends you a generic sense of love that we all have for all human beings. When a thought is repeated several times it stops being convincing somehow: as if an author of the thought knows it is not relly true and tries by repetition put more weight on it.

 

2) She talks about a wedding shop. I find it very materialistic and not love-like at all. Many women are crazy to get married, they dream about a dress more than about a man and for them wedding is a culmination of their ambition. Her comments about wedding dress I didn't like at all, as if through leaving you she lost an opportunity to get her wedding now. Instead of telling you that she feels sad that all your dreams about future life together and having kids and taking a dog or whatever you guys were dreaming of together, she talks about wedding dresses that someone else is trying on! I find it shallow at the least.

 

3) She suggests you do not answer this letter and it feels like she doesn't want you to.

 

The whole letter impression: she doesn't regret leaving you. she didn't like the fact that you didn't have a job. she basks in the idea of all-loving, all-understanding and all-forgiving supersoul, who is also suffering of course, but this is beyond your possible understanding. It seems to me that she is annoyed and frustrated by the fact that she spent her time coming close to a married status (which is her goal) but unfortunately she didn't choose a guy who would satisfy her needs. However your definite advantage was in the fact that you were agreeing to marry her.

 

Now you phone conversation and text after. If the person bases their decision on feelings then it would be very quick for her to say yes or no. But after her letter I didn't expect her to be this person and 4 hours talking proves it. Finally she says no and then in the morning she text you "can I think?" My opinion: while on the phone and in somewhat direct contact with you she probably got some sort of feelings in her and those were feelings telling her that she doesn't want to be with you. However in the morning she was having second thoughts and this might be because she stopped talking to you so the only picture that she was in contact with was her own life. And something in this life tells her that she might make some use out of your proposal.

 

She strikes me as very materialistic and pragmatic person. I suspect there might be someone who doesn't give her enough but she is hopeful. She might want to set up a competition between you and him or something like this.

 

Something tells me she wants to use you, knowing your feelings to her. And this is not nice. Can you love such a person?

[ElChup]

 

I didn't know why you guys broke up and why she was writing this letter to you - obviously it was a response on something you wrote. So I can not give any comment on why she said everything she did and why she kept her letter so long.

 

I was neglectful and probably did some things that I shouldn't have.

 

 

1) In circles she repeats one thought over and over that she also thinks about you. She describes how she thinks, giving you pictures: she prays for you to find a job, she sends you a generic sense of love that we all have for all human beings. When a thought is repeated several times it stops being convincing somehow: as if an author of the thought knows it is not relly true and tries by repetition put more weight on it.

I'm not really sure what to say about this view.

 

 

2) She talks about a wedding shop. I find it very materialistic and not love-like at all. Many women are crazy to get married, they dream about a dress more than about a man and for them wedding is a culmination of their ambition. Her comments about wedding dress I didn't like at all, as if through leaving you she lost an opportunity to get her wedding now. Instead of telling you that she feels sad that all your dreams about future life together and having kids and taking a dog or whatever you guys were dreaming of together, she talks about wedding dresses that someone else is trying on! I find it shallow at the least.

She isn't your standard woman. She often spoke throughout the relationship about how, before she met me, she never much wanted to get married.

 

Again, I'm not quite sure about what you are saying here. After all, she dumped me. Would it be proper for her to be writing sobbing emails about how we weren't going to have a family, et al, with that in mind?

 

3) She suggests you do not answer this letter and it feels like she doesn't want you to.

A week before her email I had told her that I was going NC. That is what the reference to exile is.

 

she basks in the idea of all-loving, all-understanding and all-forgiving supersoul, who is also suffering of course, but this is beyond your possible understanding.

Sorry, this I don't understand at all. Can you explain?

 

It seems to me that she is annoyed and frustrated by the fact that she spent her time coming close to a married status (which is her goal) but unfortunately she didn't choose a guy who would satisfy her needs. However your definite advantage was in the fact that you were agreeing to marry her.

So......you're saying she operating on the basis of mixed feelings?

 

Now you phone conversation and text after. If the person bases their decision on feelings then it would be very quick for her to say yes or no.

Again, if she dumped me surely it's not that simple. I mean, people get dumped for a reason.

But after her letter I didn't expect her to be this person and 4 hours talking proves it. Finally she says no and then in the morning she text you "can I think?" My opinion: while on the phone and in somewhat direct contact with you she probably got some sort of feelings in her and those were feelings telling her that she doesn't want to be with you. However in the morning she was having second thoughts and this might be because she stopped talking to you so the only picture that she was in contact with was her own life. And something in this life tells her that she might make some use out of your proposal.

In terms of your last sentence, that's kind of what I was angling for.

 

She strikes me as very materialistic and pragmatic person.

Unfortunately this is more as a result of her family background than personal attitude. Her cultural and social (that is to say through family) background is such that appearance and materialism plays a factor in their lives.

 

I suspect there might be someone who doesn't give her enough but she is hopeful. She might want to set up a competition between you and him or something like this.

Possibly. But, I won't compete with someone else.

Something tells me she wants to use you, knowing your feelings to her. And this is not nice. Can you love such a person?

No I cannot. Thing is that she has never done anything remotely like that before so if I show up next week and she does indeed say that she wants to date others at the same time, then I will turn down this proposal and my opinion of her will be significantly changed. Changed enough that my attraction to her will be significantly reduced. If anything, it would make the moving on easier.

[nina2009]

Basically all my impression of this girl was an impression of someone who is very coldhearted and coldheaded. Who is focused on financial and status matters more than anything else. Something tells me that if you had now a wonderful job with tons of money she might be flying back.

 

Also she is a controlling type. You offered something, she converted it into her offer. You offered her something good for you, she converted it into something bad for you. You told her about your NC and this probably stung so she refers to it as to "exile". As you can see "exile" is for a victim. No Contact is for the one who controls his life. Honestly I see now her letter as her need to confuse you and sabotage your final decision to take a control over the situation for yourself. I do not think she does it consciously, but for controlling people it is the second nature. So she confuses you and then you again try to take a control over in your hands: make your offer. So she plays her game again, trying to take you under control.

 

Basically I see it more as a power game. If you submit, she will use you and never respect or love. If you keep a stand for yourself then she might continue playing this game, trying to win. Because it seems that this game is entertaining for her.

 

Now if you like to play this game with her and win: do NOT accept her offer whatever it is. Have a counteroffer on this one or ask to edit this her offer seriously, or refuse it completely. Do not show your anger or sadness, while talking, no matter what she offers.

 

I already do not like that she told you to expect something unpleasant without telling you what it is. It is another controlling trick that is made to keep a victim hooked on negative, while mixed with the anticipation of the possible miracle... I find it is pretty cruel.

[ElChup]

Basically all my impression of this girl was an impression of someone who is very coldhearted and coldheaded. Who is focused on financial and status matters more than anything else. Something tells me that if you had now a wonderful job with tons of money she might be flying back.

Possibly, possibly not. Finances weren't the main reason for the break up.

 

Also she is a controlling type. You offered something, she converted it into her offer. You offered her something good for you, she converted it into something bad for you.

Well, we don't know I'll consider it bad yet. Let's wait and see. She's been wrong in the past about things she thought would upset me. But yes, she is a controlling type. But then, so am I and so was I throughout the relationship. I got my way ultimately more than she did.

 

 

You told her about your NC and this probably stung so she refers to it as to "exile". As you can see "exile" is for a victim.

Actually, exile was my choice of words.

 

 

 

 

No Contact is for the one who controls his life.

Which is why I originally decided to go NC.

 

Honestly I see now her letter as her need to confuse you and sabotage your final decision to take a control over the situation for yourself. I do not think she does it consciously, but for controlling people it is the second nature. So she confuses you and then you again try to take a control over in your hands: make your offer. So she plays her game again, trying to take you under control.

Well, to be fair to her, it was I who broke NC when she was burgled and it was I who brought up emotions initially. Had I not she would never have written that email.

 

Basically I see it more as a power game. If you submit, she will use you and never respect or love. If you keep a stand for yourself then she might continue playing this game, trying to win. Because it seems that this game is entertaining for her.

As I said, this "game" would not exist had I not broken NC.

 

Now if you like to play this game with her and win: do NOT accept her offer whatever it is. Have a counteroffer on this one or ask to edit this her offer seriously, or refuse it completely. Do not show your anger or sadness, while talking, no matter what she offers.

No, I will not unreservedly lie down and accept whatever she puts on the table.

I already do not like that she told you to expect something unpleasant without telling you what it is. It is another controlling trick that is made to keep a victim hooked on negative, while mixed with the anticipation of the possible miracle... I find it is pretty cruel.

Again, to be fair, she has said that I might not be happy with her proposal. That's not a definite. Ultimately, I guess, the proof will be in the pudding.

[jimmajam]

Agreed. The whole letter sounds nice, but wow, how selfish it is to read. She's basically saying what Jettison said that you should love her, still like her and she still cares about you, but doesn't want to be with you. It's like she's afraid to have someone hate her. She wants everyone to love her. Too bad for her. Whether you love her, hate her, are indifferent, she doesn't get to choose the emotion you feel towards her. She can't hope that you wish her well, just because she does to you. Maybe you wish her future bad relationships to see how good she had it (I doubt it...just saying) she can't tell you how to feel.

 

I also agree with the last part and it comes more and more clear as time passes. My ex hasn't bothered contacting me much at all since the breakup. It seems like she moved on really easily and just forgot about me. I keep reassuring her I'm still there for her though. Looking back I'm pretty sure I reached out to her at least once or twice every month. Just when she is probably thinking that I am gone forever, I send a stupid message letting her know I'm thinking about her all the time - still.

 

Just finished reading the thread. It's interesting she is entertaining the possibility, just be careful as you already know.