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Bi-cultural dating: are my expectations too high?


icarus27

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This goes out to people who have some experience of dating in the Western sense, but who have backgrounds that are non-Western. You might be Far Eastern, Indian, Latin American etc

 

As a British person of S Asian (= East Indian) heritage, I'm questioning whether some of my expectations of women from my background have been wrong all along. Some examples: I expect that -

(i) the woman, at age 25+, should not be living with parents. I can't get my head round how to date a grown woman whose comings and goings are constantly being watched by parents.

(ii) the woman went to university and has a good (even if not yet settled) idea of what she wants to do for a career or job

(iii) she is dating with an intent to move towards a long-term commitment, not just to "see who's out there".

(iv) if we are long-distance, she should be ok with doing the travel half of the time, or at least as close to that as she can

(v) (Tough one) she sees the physical aspect of a relationship as normal - the idea that as time passes, a man who is dating her will be attracted enough to want more than just hand-holding.

On the one hand I have met S Asian women who say they have remained virgins because they want to wait until married, and as a result have a galaxy worth of hang-ups about their bodies, and about displays of affection. On the other hand, I have also met S Asian women who have become so blase about sex that nothing is special for them anymore.

 

The truth is, I am thinking that by having these expectations as the bare minimum - I may have completely misjudged the British-Asian scene. We know that out there in the mainstream dating world, these expectations would not even need explanation. But inside a sub-culture (like the Asian one) it can be different.

 

But this is the sticking point - by giving up some or all of the above expectations, I cannot help but feel that I am compromising the practical basis for a sound relationship. For example, to me - what the hell is a relationship where I am spending money to travel to her city all the time, and not even getting to spend any alone-time because she lives with parents?

 

I need a straw poll of people to tell me if I am being unrealistic in these expectations. What can I let go of?

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I don't think you are being unrealistic at all. I'm not trying to hit on you but I myself have pretty much similar expectations. Yes, even the physical one. I realized that if I'm in a committed relationship I'll do it with the guy. Its important to do it before marriage actually because I was turned off by the way my 1st ex looked naked. I just wasn't comfortable. He was proud of his bum which was non-existent IMO.

 

Have you tried going for girls that are not raised in the west completely but have come there for education or work and have "non-desi" friends, and have evolved due to exposure to a different culture. Also, having a good female friend can help spot bad apples quicker. Opposite genders can't evaluate each other very well. If you have a female friend she can faily quickly evaluate the other woman. My professor said to me once about my 1st ex within 5 minutes of their interaction that this guy is not worth spending time on. He is insecure. I didn't pay much attention to it then and late came to the same conclusion.

 

I think what you need is a 'decent' girl, someone who understands that relationships are give-n-take not just take take because she has a particular organ in her body. I think a girl who is looking for a serious relationship might be a good candidate, they tend to be more understanding of the expectations. Have you tried going for girls with some decent education? They may be more decent in behavior than some girls who come here to get a 6-9 mo degree and brag about it (not trying to put anyone else down, but that degree really makes them feel that they are someone special). Ask/find out about a girl's interests. A girl with real interests may be calmer and into her world than into other people's hair. May be look for someone who keeps herself busy with school/work and other activities. Sorry, if I'm giving random suggestions, just trying to help and trying to learn from what I've seen here.

 

Personally, I maintain my distance with "desi girls" here. They are just some breed of people that I can't understand. Once they come here they start to think that they have achieved something special. I have not seen much humanity nor humility in these women. One classic virtue that they possess is 'disrespecting/pushing other people's boundaries'. They will stay on phone until 2 am, they will talk loudly. They will cook and move furniture at ungodly hours. They will talk nasty about other girls to men (this is really bad). Thankfully I was never a part of any 'desi' group here since I go to a different school. I do have Indian and Pakistani friends but I chose them very carefully and they are quiet and sweet girls.

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Your expectations are actually close to mine (Though I put more emphasis on beauty and elegance). So I would have to disagree with the idea that you should lower your standards. If you value yourself enough to hold your future partner in such a manner, then do not alter. The instant that you lower your standards, you compromise your integrity and therefore lose yourself.

 

This is only the case in normal, healthy standard, with which I believe you possess. If you deserve it, then attain that prize. Don't sell yourself short, there's someone out there who fits your criteria regardless of race.

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Thanks to all. I have to respond to a few points in Tinu's post though, and it will develop some of the ideas I'm trying to understand myself ....

 

Have you tried going for girls that are not raised in the west completely but have come there for education or work and have "non-desi" friends, and have evolved due to exposure to a different culture.

I'm open-minded about girls with this sort of background, in fact one of the first things I look for is, does the girl have friends of different races and religions? Unfortunately a couple of years back, a bitter experience with one such girl showed that even if she's a very cosmopolitan-minded person, this doesn't mean she doesn't have other deep personality issues or disorders. The girl in question had huge anxiety issues and commitment problems.

 

Also, having a good female friend can help spot bad apples quicker. Opposite genders can't evaluate each other very well. If you have a female friend she can faily quickly evaluate the other woman.

 

He he, a good idea, and I have a number of close female friends. BUT they happen to live in different parts of the country: there's no way they would be available on an everyday basis to do things with me and my "potential date" in an easy, informal way so that I could later ask them "So what'd'you think of her?"

 

I think what you need is a 'decent' girl, someone who understands that relationships are give-n-take not just take take because she has a particular organ in her body. I think a girl who is looking for a serious relationship might be a good candidate, they tend to be more understanding of the expectations. Have you tried going for girls with some decent education?

 

Every single woman I've ever been interested in has been highly educated, sometimes higher than me. Again, the hard lesson has been that this is no guarantee that they are emotionally or sexually mature. I have had dinner with 28/29 year old women who by day, are competent business execs, and by night live with their parents and eat mum's cooking. I look back and think that although at the time it hurt when they ended things - really, Luck was doing me a favour. How can I be compatible with women who haven't bothered to stand on their own two feet yet?

 

But lately, I have started to ask myself: am I asking for too much?

 

Just like in my recent thread in Dating, I am finding more and more that Asian women don't reach marriage by building a solid foundation of trust and intimacy with the other person over a period of a few years. More than once I have come accross this pattern: she doesn't treat any guy seriously during her 20s, instead having flings and dead-end involvements with "bad boys" ... turns 30 / 35, suddenly panics that she's getting old and will never have children, as a result desperately says Yes to marrying whoever she happens to be with at the time.

 

Have I been missing the point completely by seeking to build something with a girl, when all the girls really want is an instant-relationship "just add hot water, and you have a readymade husband".

 

The worries in my mind are about marrying someone I don't know, then finding too late that they are utterly sexually incompatible with me, and there is not even the emotional connection from which couples can usually build and get their sex life going. Or for example, that she has no financial sense - spends money like it's water .... and there's conflict over money issues. You get the idea, there is scope for a lot to go wrong.

 

However, by seeing these factors TOO clearly, what I am ensuring is that I remain alone while (like Tinu once said) other men who don't give a s*** about such issues are going straight ahead and fast-tracking to marriage.

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Just like in my recent thread in Dating, I am finding more and more that Asian women don't reach marriage by building a solid foundation of trust and intimacy with the other person over a period of a few years. More than once I have come accross this pattern: she doesn't treat any guy seriously during her 20s, instead having flings and dead-end involvements with "bad boys" ... turns 30 / 35, suddenly panics that she's getting old and will never have children, as a result desperately says Yes to marrying whoever she happens to be with at the time.

 

I hear you. I have had these experiences with desi men. So, that brings me to this conclusion that most South Asian people in general are just sorta floating around there in the marriage market. When one of these women happens to meet one of these men thats it, they will say yes to her. Now a days the sexually desirable part is gone and is replaced by the higher the salary the more sexually desirable she is. Do we even understand what we want to achieve out of marriage? What would we call a successful marriage? I don't think very many people do. I used to ask men such Q to know if they had thought seriously about marriage. Not 1 man has ever answered that Q. They called me psycho. So you see even men act just the way women are acting. Its not related to gender or society (trust me, I've heard similar stories from many of my friends who come from otherraces). It really comes to 'how enlightened you are'. How seriously you have thought about marriage, life, and where you fit into all this. You need not have all answers today but I think its important to know what you desire out of life, what kinda married life you want, do you want kids, have you thought how your life would change and the things that you have to give up, etc. Women are running after money and looks, men are running after money, and looks.

 

Have I been missing the point completely by seeking to build something with a girl, when all the girls really want is an instant-relationship "just add hot water, and you have a readymade husband".

 

Not to fret. I think you just have been meeting non-compatible women. So, why worry if they are gone and things didn't work out? There will always be women wanting everything 'ready-to-go. Thats okay, their gender excuses them if they want such things. Always understand that there are men who are willing to provide what these women are looking for. If you are not one of these men (I'm not suggesting that you be one of 'em) why worry that they are taking these women? Let them have 'em. You wait for your type of woman. I think what you are looking for is personality and depth of character. How many men out there are looking for that? Indian men in the US are going to India and getting married in a week. What personality, what character, what chemistry do they see in these women? When men are ready they WILL find a girl. My mom has put it in harsh words "Marriage is a business deal. We hate to say that and we may not admit it, but most women and now men definitely practice it. If the buyers (a man's) needs are not met, he will go to the next candidate. It is buyer's market as we all know. Have we ever seen a man settle? No, why, because women are idiots and they chase after marriage. For most women getting married is getting it all so even if they don't feel that he is the right guy, most women just settle." I wonder how many men feel this way about their marriage and possibility of getting married. I guess not very many.

 

The worries in my mind are about marrying someone I don't know, then finding too late that they are utterly sexually incompatible with me, and there is not even the emotional connection from which couples can usually build and get their sex life going. Or for example, that she has no financial sense - spends money like it's water .... and there's conflict over money issues. You get the idea, there is scope for a lot to go wrong.

 

In any marriage this can happen. So, stop fretting. When you find someone suitable, appealing, someone you atleast want to get to know better, date her. You can find out more about her through dating. I don't think that there is any other way. Even then success in marriage is unpredictable.

 

However, by seeing these factors TOO clearly, what I am ensuring is that I remain alone while (like Tinu once said) other men who don't give a s*** about such issues are going straight ahead and fast-tracking to marriage.

 

Not to worry about such men. You don't know what they are facing in their marriage. We only know when the things go out of their hands. My dad told me once "A woman who can earn money on her own and can take care of the business (everyday life, handling finances, handling her emotions, etc.), a good man will always respect her. An insecure man may run away from her or try to change her into a homemaker but thats another story. This kinda woman surely earns a man's respect because he knows that she can get up and leave if she is not treated well." If you are looking for character, personality, trust me, its not easy to find. Not in any race, much less so in south Asian because of the way the daughters are raised. Hang in there. The wait will be worth it. That woman would be someone worth building life with.

 

May be I've said a lot of rubbish here, not sure if my reply will help you, but I also want to add one thing. I think I'm a strong, honest, hard-working, kind-hearted, good woman. I'm still struggling. I guess my problem is that I think too much. I don't just jump on board. So, it isn't easy for a decent woman out there either. I sometimes wish I would be just pretty and know nothing beyond much like these desi girls. I could then marry anyone. Thats why they say there is bliss in ignorance.

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