Monogamous ethical question

[rosephase]

Okay sometimes I feel like I lose touch with what is and isn’t appropriate for a mono relationship. I understand that all relationships are different, but I wanted to ask you guys which if any of these would fly in your relationship.

 

1) Your partner is able to have lucid dreams (When you are become aware of the fact you are dreaming in a dream and then can control the dream to some extent) and what you partner chooses to do in those dreams is have sex with other people including an ex of his or hers that they are still friends with.

 

2) They tell the ex that they have sex dreams about them.

 

Okay and for some personal details. My first boyfriend and I are still friends. I really do adore him. We’ve changed a lot since we where together and he is married to a women who I have met a handful of times but who isn’t terrible warm to me. He lives on the other side of the country from me and I see him maybe twice a year when we are both in our home town. On Saturday my boyfriend and I were in town and we went out to see a show that he was in. We ended back up at my parent’s house talking and drinking some wine until about three in the morning when we drove him home. I’m still attracted to him, but I’m very respectful of his marriage. I want him to be happy. My boyfriend and my ex get along well and seem to enjoy each other’s company so it’s nice for the three of us to have some time to connect.

 

The next morning my ex and I were texting. And I mentioned that he was in my dream (he often sends me a text or a quick e-mail when he dreams about me, and I do the same) He told me that he so rarely sees me that normally when he does it’s a trigger to remind him that he is dreaming. “So we can do whatever we want. It’s delightful” I asked him if we can trade dreams (I have horrible dreams a lot of nights) he wrote “yeah right. I’m not trading you sex dreams for zombies. You get laid enough as it is”

 

I talked about it with my boyfriend. Any time I feel like I’m feeling attracted to anyone I tell my partners. And I don’t know how my ex and his wife relationship works. I know they aren’t open. But it sounds like they talk pretty honestly about sexual desires for other people at least at times. Do you feel like this is crossing some sort of line?

[jul-els]

Yes, but the caveat here is you're being open with your bf about it. If that helps you to keep things from going south and it doesn't upset your bf too much, then that's better than nothing. Best not to share these thoughts and have these kind of exchanges with your ex at all though. If your heart is in your current relationship, the respect to which it is there should be complete, and without reservation.

[Mauxly]

I think that you and your boyfriend have a really healthy relationships, at least as far as honesty goes. I don't care who you are or how managamous you are, people will be attracted to other people. It's the honestly that prevents that attraction from becoming a wedge in the relationship. I want the kind of relationship where I can tell my lover everything. I envy you on that!

I'm not sure how healthy the ex's relationship is though. There is line between fantasy and actually telling the object of the fantasy about it. I think that crosses the line, a slight flirtation with danger. I suspect he's playing a bit of a game.

[arwen]

For me it would, yes.

 

It is not even the intentional, lucid sex dream that would bother me. I mean even in fantasies (that are even more intentional than lucid dreams I guess), I think that everyone is free. I wouldn't want to know, but I wouldn't be particularly bothered if sometimes, a fantasy would involve others, past others or just fantasy people

 

But telling an ex who DOES have an open relationship, that would feel threatening to me. Because for all I know, that ex would maybe take it as a hint to develop something.

 

It's hard to imagine this, me being a strictly monogamous person, married to someone who never had another woman (I have exes myself though).

[abitbroken]

Having a dream where you are with your ex is not over the bounds. We wrestle with our problems and work things out in dreams. Sometimes we can't control it - sometimes we can - but things that happen in dreams are not necessarily anything we would ever do in regular life.

 

Talking about sex dreams with an ex, to me, is over the line of appropriateness. Just because its a dream doesn't give you the greenlight to talk about having sex with them. Be honest, you aren't telling them this because they are a clinical psychologist and want to know the underlying state of your mind - you probably don't mind of the thoughts titillate him. It also goes into the realm of emotionally intimacy - you are sharing things with your ex instead of your boyfriend.

 

i know a lot of folks thinks "everything is okay" and if a boyfriend isn't okay with it, it means its not a healthy relationship. I disagree. With a relationship most of the time its about the feeling of 'can't wait to share' with your boyfriend rather than testing who else you can share it with without BF feeling uncomfortable.

[Lecturer]

For me the line has always been more about desire, and less about act. In a mono relationship, if my partner is seriously and emotionally desiring others, then I feel there is an issue - the physical act beyond it is only a small amount worse. If its just a superficial physical "he's hot, I wouldn't mind some of that", then its totally fine. In your situation, however, because of the interaction between you two, your ex COULD be crossing a line. In the poly world openness is everything.. but with mono, you should be open with your partner and closed to others. His wife probably wouldn't appreciate you and him having discussion on anything involving sex + you + him.

[rosephase]

My boyfriend and I are in an open relationship. I'm not worried about us. I've told my boyfriend all about texting with my ex. My boyfriend knows I still very much care for him and that I will be respectful of his relationship. My boyfriend and I are intimate with others, both emotionally and physically. And I do feel very close to my ex, even though we don't see each other much.

 

Sorry if that wasn't clear what is confusing to me is my ex. I don't know if this kind of interaction with me is pushing his relationship. Or if he tells his wife about how he talks with me. I'm used to sharing everything with my boyfriend and girlfriend so I sort of (maybe wrongly) assumed that any kind of talk my ex had with me would be okay with his wife. But I don't know.

 

I want it to be okay because I love my ex and enjoy being around him and would even love to be sexual with him again, but not at any toll to his relationship and with them being mono I have mostly put that idea out of my mind. It's just stuff like this, it feels sexual, it feels connecting and close and of course I love it because that is what I would like but I don't know if he is behaving in a way that could hurt his relationship and that is the last thing I want. And yeah... I just don't know.

[jul-els]

He's married, so I would respect that (even though he isn't) and not stir the pot.

[Sanesoul]

You can't control your dreams, but telling your ex, when you are in a relationship, that you have sex dreams about them is crossing the line big time. I wouldn't tolerate it.

[rosephase]

He's married, so I would respect that (even though he isn't) and not stir the pot.

 

See this is where I get lost. What is stirring the pot and what isn't? We have long phone conversations where we talk about our relationships. We talk about our dreams often (we kind of learned how to lucid dream about the same time, along with my boyfriend and since then talking about dreams has been a cool way to learn about each other and about dreaming) when I see him I feel a spark but that has always been true. My boyfriend really does like him a lot and when he comes into town he stays with us (that has happened all of twice in almost five years)

 

We talk about poly a lot. And I guess I know that for some people just feeling connected with an ex is too far. Or talking about your current relationship with an ex is crossing a line. Or putting aside time to hang out with them. But all of that seems good to me. He is at very least a wonderful friend who helped me thru some rough times. And I don't know how to be friends with him in a way that is less intimate. And I guess I can feel that our closeness should be crossing a line, and I don't want it to. Because I want our friendship to be healthy and good for both of us and it can't be if he is hiding things from his wife or if he is crossing line with her to be close to me.

[abitbroken]

Well - just like we tell people to stay away from married people = stay far away from him. Just because your boyfriend doesn't care if you sleep with other guys, you must respect your ex's marriage. I would say stop communication with him altogether until you can get a handle on yourself or for always. Go NC if you need to. If it feels sexual...it is. He has made a choice for this woman and if you don't respect that, then you are not a friend to him at all. You are just being self indulgent dallying mentally with her man. The "what you want" in the equation is just not in this, as far as I am concerned..

[Sanesoul]

Perhaps ask him, "Is your wife ok with you exchanging sexual dreams with a woman who is sexually interested in you and has slept with you in the past?"

 

See what his response is.

[abitbroken]

What is stirring the pot? Talking sexually with a man that is married. If you don't know how to be friends with him that doesn't include sex in some form, you guys are not friends. Be honest, you DO know what is appropriate and what isn't. You really do. And he may have been a great friend who helped you through rough times, but now its your boyfriend's turn to be that great friend.

[jul-els]

I don't know how to be friends with him in a way that is less intimate. And I guess I can feel that our closeness should be crossing a line, and I don't want it to. Because I want our friendship to be healthy and good for both of us and it can't be if he is hiding things from his wife or if he is crossing line with her to be close to me.

 

This is the crux of it, here. Your lifestyles are not compatible. What's ok for you is not ok for him and his wife. Your heart knows and is telling you this. If you wish to care about him and respect yourself, you will not cross inappropriate boundaries with him. This includes things like sex talk and being emotionally intimate in matters of sex.

[rosephase]

Well - just like we tell people to stay away from married people = stay far away from him. Just because your boyfriend doesn't care if you sleep with other guys, you must respect your ex's marriage. I would say stop communication with him altogether until you can get a handle on yourself or for always. Go NC if you need to. If it feels sexual...it is. He has made a choice for this woman and if you don't respect that, then you are not a friend to him at all. You are just being self indulgent dallying mentally with her man. The "what you want" in the equation is just not in this, as far as I am concerned..

 

I'm not going to act on anything. And I really hope there is another option other then not talking to my friend. Because that would suck. And I don't feel like I should walk away from someone I care about because there is still some sexual connection. I know I think differently about relationships then a lot of people. But I won't cheat; I won't be a part of it. But I don't feel like feeling close to someone is cheating. Maybe the sexual talk. Even if it feels light to me is something that his wife wouldn't be happy with. So I just need to be aware of it so I can avoid it.

 

I don't think walking away from an important friendship is the answer. I think acting like an adult, and thinking thru my choices is. And that is why I'm asking you guys, because I know I think about relationships differently.

[ghostdog]

i never absolutely never want to hear about anyone my g/f has been with prior to me coming in and rocking her world.

 

i am all their best lovers they've ever had.

[I_Speak_Jive]

Hey RosePhase, this is extremely interesting to read -thanks for opening this thread and sharing!

 

I very much see where you are coming from. For a while now, I have been thinking about relationships in a different way, and pondering on issues of monogamy, morality, faithfulness and freedom, and where they overlap and how to negotiate them. I am not in a strictly open relationship, although due to the circumstances of me being overseas for a while we have tweaked with the boundaries to make things more realistic and... "human-friendly".

 

It gets a little trickier when you have to put someone else (i.e. your ex-boyfriend's wife) into the equation, and that's why I think maybe asking your ex how she fits in the context of your conversations would be a good idea. If he says "oh she'd flip out if she knew", well, that's a bit of a boundary right there. If they have a relationship in which they are both secure about their love for each other and they don't put too many barriers around the other, you're good.

[lostandhurt]

Okay this is how I see it. I know you and your bf have an open relationship and perhaps the ex could even bring up these dreams right in front of him with no problem. If your ex's wife wouldn't stand for it, through texting, sexting or email then I think it should stop on you side. It is disrespectful to his marriage unless they have an arrangement that allows such things.

All involved must agree it is okay or it simply isn't okay.

 

I think it goes back to the old saying. "If you can't do it or say it in front of your S/O then you shouldn't be doing it"

 

Lost

[abitbroken]

I think that our ideas of "acting on it" are different, or at least where it starts. To you, it seems that acting on it means intercourse only. But to me, especially when I was married, its not about whether he slept with her or not. It starts somewhere. Sexual banter, steamy fantasies, phone sex (btw, you may not be thinking about that - but whose to say he doesn't beat off after your conversation), or just talking about sex would take my husband out of our relationship and have him fantasizing about a different woman when we had sex, or started having him mention how so and so does things. You are not stupid. You know what affect sexual talk may have on a guy.

 

Just because you are polyamorous, it doesn't put you in any different category than the countless threads on this board where there is a husband and wife and then an ex girlfriend comes calling even if she is attached. If you didn't mention the openness I am sure this thread would have already sort of fizzled out into a "stay away from him"

 

I think you need to try talking to him in a completely unsexual way. Talk about common interests, politics if that what floats your boat, different things that attract your intellect. If you cannot talk about anything that is not about sex or erodes into sexual banter, then you just can't be friends with this guy. At all. beyond perhaps christmas cards or something. Sorry if that's not what you want, but you broke up. he's married. people come into our life and make a profound impact but we sometimes just have to let them go - especially if you truly value him as a person.

[Lucius]

1) Your partner is able to have lucid dreams (When you are become aware of the fact you are dreaming in a dream and then can control the dream to some extent) and what you partner chooses to do in those dreams is have sex with other people including an ex of his or hers that they are still friends with.

 

My partner is allowed to do and dream as she wishes. I would be turned off, however, if she felt the desire to do as you have described; it's not the act itself (which is merely dreaming), but the drive to do it that would concern me. It wouldn't be in keeping with her (very devoted) character, and I'd question how content she was with me. That I would even need to question her emotional investment would lead, surely and swiftly, to me questioning my OWN investment.

 

2) They tell the ex that they have sex dreams about them.

 

This I would consider to be completely inappropriate, and blatantly disrespectful. Any partner of mine would have to work furiously to come back from an indiscretion like that. Depending on the circumstances, that might well be enough for me to walk. I require the same level of devotion, tact, and emotional intelligence that I provide - no more, no less.