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venting of a cynic


offplanet
What To Do If They Cheat - Do this ...
What To Do If They Cheat - Do this First

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I dont understand why so many girls, maybe guys too, with girls, persist with guys who have shown by actions and words that they don't really care. People seem to be in denial, when actually it should be obvious. Hanging on in this situation makes on less appealing, anyway, to the other person. It's behaviour doomed to drive the person further away, so why do it? It's silly to deny the obvious. If you do it once, you'll probably start a vicious cycle of doing it over and over. It's like asking to be rejected. It'd be good if people who do this could be aware and try to put a stop to the vicious cycle before it becomes too entrenched, and instead, learn how to be good to themselves.

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It's hard to let go once you have feelings for the other person even if they aren't treating you the way you'd prefer. Some people have hope that with a frank discussion about their treatment things will improve and they often do for a little while (because the less invested person isn't ready to let them go yet as they are easy pickins). Unfortunately, the longer the less invested person continues the charade, the more deep the persistent person's feelings become.

 

I would state the same thing as you the other way around, why is anybody staying with someone they don't really want? Have they no honor, no heart, no compassion?

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Why a person stays with someone they don't really want. Well, I wouldn't put it that they don't want the person, just, they're not in love with the person. They could still want them around though, for different reasons. Like, having the other person adoring them makes them feel good. That's understandable. That's probably a very good reason, if not an honorable one, for keeping someone around.

 

Back to the original question, though. I happen to believe that humans communicate with each other thru body language, and through actions, as well as through words. I think that we deep down know if someone's fooling us, but we might not know it consciously. However, we could know it consciously if we chose to face reality, rather than believing what we want to believe.

 

So if someone chooses to stick with someone who doesn't really love them, and make excuses for that person's behaviour, how can they blame anyone but themselves? Its a choice to stay. Otherwise, its like an addiction ,where you're out of control. Is that really love? I mean, if you want something from a person which they don't wish to give you, and you insist that they give it, that amounts to a DEMAND. To me, it seems unloving to demand of someone that which they don't wish to give. Its more like a selfish need for a person, rather than a pure love. I don't think we can really demand that someone feel something for us. Or is this too rational?

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No, it's not too rational but most relationships aren't so black and white. The less invested person keeps the more invested person hooked by tossing out crumbs of affection from time to time. They may not realize what they are doing either. Maybe they are waiting for deeper feelings to develop, maybe they are fooling themselves as well. It is definitely each person's responsibility to take care of themselves and when there are mixed messages just how to go about doing that is sometimes unclear. I agree that demanding someone feel something will not work. Maybe the more invested person is really trying to find out if there's any hope at all so they can leave if there isn't. Would this make the less invested person feel pressured? Absolutely, if they don't do the right thing or say the right thing they may lose their toy.

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Most people have very little idea of what makes for a real-life healthy relationship.

 

Unless someone was lucky enough to win the parental lottery, chances are your real-life experiences growing up showed you some sort of dysfunctional relationship....and anything else we learned about love came from such highly accurate and reliable sources such as TV, movies, pop culture, and fairy tales.

 

Given that, a lot of people confuse "drama" for love and/or gravitate toward the particular flavor of dysfunction they grew up with because, on some level, it feels familiar.

 

Spent a lot of time in messed up relationships when I was younger (including a stint with an alcoholic). Took a lot of therapy to get my own thinking and behavior on a healthier path.

 

Choosing healthier partners and being in a healthy relationship is nothing like being in a dysfunctional train wreck. "Healthy" has a lot less drama and insecurity and general BS....and if you're used to that kind of stuff going on all the time, "healthy" can also feel, well, kinda boring...especially at first.

 

In the end though, we are each responsible for our own level of mental, emotional and physical health and the quality of the relationships we allow to be part of our lives. While I feel bad for people who are enmeshed in various levels of drama, I know they have a choice....and choosing to stay on the rollercoaster is one of the choices they have.

 

Most people do not choose to start doing things differently ("change") until they have reached a point of maximum discomfort. What is "maximum discomfort" for me may be a lot sooner - or later - than anyone else.

 

I didn't really figure out that living on the rollercoaster wasn't really workable until sometime in my mid-30s.....even with all the therapy prior to that.

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To the OP...sounds like you are almost defending the actions of the one who doesn't care and demeaning the one who cares. I would say the bigger shame goes to the person who doesn't love and just uses and toys with someone for entertainment. I look down on them and hold them more accountable than the person who loves and cares and tries every which way to make it work. Kind of like someone who studies very very hard but just can't do well on the test..vs someone who goes out partying, doesn't study and fails the test or cheats his way to a pass. I would look up to the person who tried their best and failed and would look down on the person who didn't want to sacrifice anything and didn't want to try or simply cheated to get ahead.

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It's an easy trap to fall into, and it's very easy to condemn that behaviour in others while doing exactly the same yourself.

 

As has been said, the way manipulative people work, when they sense their prey is about to give up and move on, they throw a bone to get them thinking "one more chance...".

 

I think it highlights the importance of keeping as many possiblities open as you can (without leading people on untruthfully). When people have only one possibility they tend to invest all their hopes in it, and find it very hard to give up on.

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I think this assessment is spot on, especially the part about not trying to change until one reaches the point of maximum discomfort. I also didn't reach that point till my 30's. I guess its too much to expect teenagers and young adults to have got this all figured out from the start.

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To the OP...sounds like you are almost defending the actions of the one who doesn't care and demeaning the one who cares. I would say the bigger shame goes to the person who doesn't love and just uses and toys with someone for entertainment. I look down on them and hold them more accountable than the person who loves and cares and tries every which way to make it work. Kind of like someone who studies very very hard but just can't do well on the test..vs someone who goes out partying, doesn't study and fails the test or cheats his way to a pass. I would look up to the person who tried their best and failed and would look down on the person who didn't want to sacrifice anything and didn't want to try or simply cheated to get ahead.

 

No I'm not defending people who toy with others, at all. And I wasn't only referring to those types of relationships, but to all situations where people try to hang on to those who for whatever reason don't feel the same. The one who keeps trying isn't necessarily the 'good' one of the two, and isn't necessarily doing it because they're more 'loving and caring'. And my point was that their 'trying to make it work' is not making it work, but having the opposite effect. They see it having the opposite effect yet keep on pressuring, as like a compulsion. They might be 'trying their best', but they're trying the wrong way.

 

Like someone responded, it can take a lot of bad experience to reach the point where you refuse to do it any more, and start to change. I didn't start to change till my late 30's

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