Marriage Proposal/Engagement Advice

[danyboy]

these don't sound like good terms upon which to start a marriage.

 

I've invested so much time and effort, it would be hard for me to give that up without some effort.

[danyboy]

I appreciate everyone's insight. It's hard for me to just label her as damaged goods and put her back, but that might be what I have to do.

 

I come from a home where marriage is important and lifelong, she doesn't.

[Dinka]

I appreciate everyone's insight. It's hard for me to just label her as damaged goods and put her back, but that might be what I have to do.

 

I come from a home where marriage is important and lifelong, she doesn't.

 

I think that all people are saying is to FIX the problem NOW. Making preconditions to a marriage is not the right way to go about things - what happens if those preconditions are suddenly not met 15, 20 years down the line? You said yourself you don't need to rush into the marriage, then don't. But make sure the problem is fully FIXED and you know 100% what you are getting yourself in to...without covering up the mess instead.

[savignon]

I don't want to be her daddy, but I understand that she has deep fears about marriage that come from things that she had no control over. I would like to give her a chance to grow up.

Did she not have that chance during the 6 years you were in a relationship??

Plenty of us come from bad homes and things we had no control over....so I don't buy into that. I'm not saying throw her back and I'm not saying she's damaged goods. I'm asking you how you want to spend the next 50 years.

[danyboy]

I hope people can appreciate that my brain sometimes tells me things that my heart won't listen to. I am going to be honest and direct with her and if we can't truly resolve it we're done. During the six years she's really changed. She used to be simple, loving, and modest. Now she's turning into Kate Gosselin. Every time I read about her I get really tense, cause I know that's how things would end up with us (minus 8 kids).

[annie24]

hm. sounds to me you should be reconsidering the entire relationship!

[savignon]

During the six years she's really changed. She used to be simple, loving, and modest. Now she's turning into Kate Gosselin

Well, this is even more alarming. I would hope you can see that what you're saying is you want to give her the chance to change for the better when the pattern has been a change for the worse. Letting her use her past as an excuse cannot fly at this point. She's with you NOW and you're looking for a happy life with her.

Yes, of course our brains and hearts can tell us different things. Doing the right thing is never easy or people would do the right thing all the time. But it's even LESS easy to tolerate that kind of behavior for a lifetime....in my opinion anyway.

[langford]

All sounds bad, you seem to really like this girl [probably too much].But she seems to be less sure,seeing flaws in a ring is symbolic of seeing flaws in you without really saying it out loud.She may just be anxious abt everything,but when in doubt dont! She seems to be unsure how she feels abt you,and is using all this stuff as excuses rather than admitting she isnt sure if she wants to be a/ married or b/married to you.

 

 

Give her some space right now.She seems like she is just going along with a well thought out plan ? Maybe she was expecting the whole thing to be different? maybe she is just one of those high maintenance prissy girls though who cares more abt the ring/dress and that her friends are getting married etc than she does abt you. Which is fine if you just plan on just living in the suburbs and both of you are really ordinary types [houses and finances vs passion and love].But it does'nt sound that way just give her time to decide what she wants.

[Circe]

Here's what I think..

 

I'ts not really about being a perfectionist and wanting a guarantee that the marriage will last forever and being freaked out about that - THAT is just the easy scapegoat she uses most of the time because she's too embarassed to consistently admit to what's really bothering her.

 

But every now and then she does admit to it.

> She doesnt think you spent enough on the ring;

> She doesn't think you made the proposal special enough for her because whatever it is you intended, when it came to the crunch - she just got a casual request (and I'm not saying this is fair or right AT ALL - hell I proposed to my guy in a casual way and he had to cut me off and take me to the jeweller so please don't think I'm criticising you) and she's enormously disappointed by it.

 

AND she hates that she feels this way.S he probably despises herself for feeling this way and thats probably adding to her anger and apparent emotional instability.

 

She's not going to be completely honest with you about this because she thinks complete honesty would make her look like a materialistic, greedy cow and thats NOT how she perceives herself and doesnt like that she's acting that way.

 

I've seen this happen before more than once. Sometimes proposals mean way too much to people than they should.

 

What can you do about it? I really don't know.

 

Hope that she comes to her senses sometime soon before she loses you.

[redrose85]

I think Indigo hit the nail on the head there. As a female, I understand

 

 

I can understand that she built it up in her head, but she needs to GET OVER IT. She has had 6 years in this relationship to grow up and move on from her childhoosd hurts and it's time to let go. She is being a greedy cow and I am still shocked by what I read about her responses to your proposal. Perhaps she isn't being honest with herself, which is creating so much angst. In any case, I'm sorry to say OP, but I don't think this marriage could last.

[danyboy]

UPDATE:

 

Thanks to everyone on here whose provided me with some objective feedback. We spoke last night and really had it out. It felt good to tell her off completely and not let her cry and make excuses or try to blame it on me. Your help gave me the extra confidence that I needed. The comments and the way shes acted more recently helped me appreciate how low my confidence has gotten in recent years. I went from unemployment (resignation [long story]) and being completely broke to starting my own business from the ground up and finding security and success again. I will admit, though, that throughout this period she was loving and supportive and showed confidence in me. I'm not sure that I would have done it and been so successful if it wasn't for her. I think that I'm part of the problem because I want to be way too understanding and not put my foot down, which will cause a crying breakdown.

 

So, she cried a majority of the time on the phone a few hours, but really said that I was right and that she just doesn't know why she acts that way sometimes. I didn't hold my tongue or try to not upset her and in the end she apologized to me and thanked me for telling her the truth and that it can only make her a better person. She also said that she can understand why I wouldn't want her and that I deserve someone better.

 

Currently we are not together. We have to figure out how to move forward from here because she was going to move into the townhouse we rented when she moved over to this city. I don't hate her and I do still love her and know that she does love me, but we can both admit that she isn't ready to give someone the kind of love it takes for a relationship to last.

 

She wants to drive over tonight to talk, but I haven't decided if that was a good idea yet. What I really want is for her to get a true reality check; that I am not free and I won't be here if you treat me poorly or take me for granted. We've both really been through a lot together and grown a lot together as well. If she came I would take the ring back or have her pay for it (she wants to pay for it) and just start over and see what happens. Now we aren't engaged and don't have a looming wedding date, but I would be hard pressed to not give her a chance.

 

My question is that would this teach her the lesson that she needs to learn? I think I'm just being soft because I still love her and want to give her a chance to change. I just can't see myself completely abandoning the relationship. Taking a step back and making her tell her family and friends that the engagement is off would be a very strong slap in the face to her. One problem I have, though, is that if it can never work I don't want to waste my time in finding someone that is right for me.

[savignon]

Well, first off, good for you!! It felt good to hear that you stood up for yourself and didn't buy into the excuses.

If you take her back today or tomorrow, then no, that won't teach her any lesson. In my opinion, you shouldn't see her or talk to her for a week or so ...I mean saying "we both need time" and then getting together the next night is a mixed message. I think YOU should take some time to see if YOU want this to work out. Right now you feel that your heart is saying YES and you love her. But why not take some mental space to think about the whole picture?? That's hard to do when the heart strings are being pulled. Also, for her....she's not really going to have time to think about her own life and changes to make or how to make them when she's trying to win you back.

Taking space and time are hard.

However, if in a week or two she comes back to you and says of her OWN accord, not because you told her to, that she's in therapy or she's told her family that you've called off the engagement....THEN you'll have some signs that she's ready to change for HERSELF (not for you) and that she's taken a humilty pill. But if you tell her, "you need therapy" or "you need to tell your family x, y or z"...then whether or not she can or will change is entirely guess work and a gamble.

Once you take some time for YOUR self and to consider what YOU want and not what SHE can or can't or will or won't do....then you'll have a better idea if this is something you even want to really pursue at this point.

PS She said "this will make me a better person"...that is true. You have given her a real gift with the truth

[DN]

If she were to change overnight into a better person it would be very disturbing:

 

• if she was able to make a decision to do that it would mean that she had been making decisions to behave badly, treat you badly and be who she is. And the only reason she was making a decision not to be like that was because she was no longer getting what she wanted. If she can decide to change that quickly then she can decide to revert back to that behaviour after a wedding when she thinks she can get away with it a gain - revert to her default behaviour, in other words.
  
• 
  
• If she cannot help how she behaves, then the effort she is making to change will be too much for her to sustain and she will revert back sooner or later - probably sooner.
  

She has done this before has she not? Apologised, made an apparent change and then reverted?

 

The only way that you can be anywhere near sure she has really changed is by giving her lots of time to demonstrate that she not only wants to change but is capable of doing so.

 

It is possible that people can change negative characteristics but frankly her behaviour is such that it seems ingrained - it is part of who she is deep inside. That requires much therapy by a really competent professional - and even that will be ineffective if her character is basically one where she is intrinsically self-absorbed and has no real interest in the well-being of other people.

 

Do not allow love to blind you to realities - it is too easy to let misplaced hope lead you into making the wrong decision. Read your first post again and understand how badly she behaved and how unlikely it is that someone would be able to change the deep character flaws that led to such crass and hurtful behaviour.

[danyboy]

She has to move down here no matter what in a week, so that's an issue as well. I won't leave her stranded, she doesn't have much money. But, I told her that we need time apart so this weekend is a definite no.

 

I agree that she needs more than a day or even a week to truly change and understand both who she is now and who she wants to become.

[Circe]

well.. keep us updated on how it all goes! And goodluck with it all!