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We had a fight... in public.


Elena1607308080

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I'm sure many of you remember my last thread about the man I love - who is having a child with someone else. (read for background...)

I will call him N

 

Today something happened that I feel quite bad & emberassed about when I look back now. I thought I would share to see what people would have to say about it.

 

I was inside the central main station to get something to drink for my bike tour, and well there was a whole big bunch of cops standing around in groups everywhere (including N), something had happened about an half hour earlier, I think a group of punks threatening people with knives and having drugs in the train or something like that, I don't really know since it was already over when I got there.

 

I saw him and at first I tried to pretend I didn't see him so I looked down and kept on walking (emberassing!), but it looked so obvious so eventually I did go and say hello. It was just small chitchat at first but somehow, stupidly, we happened to start talking about this whole situation, the whole mess, about him becoming a father. It was just harmless at first but I couldnt hide my frustration for very long.

 

I just keep running the argument back and forth through my mind, every exact word. I will quote some so you can understand his and my point of view a little :

 

"so if I am the one that matters to you then why the hell are you marrying her? is there anyone holding a gun to your head and forcing you to do that?"

"how is that any of your business now? you were the one who said it couldn't work."

"and because you couldn't have me you let K trick you back into your messed up relationship and agreed to marry her? I wonder how she will feel always knowing that she was only second choice."

"she is carrying my child, what kind of man would I be to let her down now and run away with someone else? you were right, it couldn't work. I'm thankful you made me realize that."

"you know what I think? I think you have no idea what the hell you want."

[this is when he looked down to the floor with this - how to describe- guilty look in his eyes as if he knew I was right but trying not to let it show]

"but good luck and have fun marrying and raising a child with a person you are not in love with. Hey, one more loveless marriage. I'm sure your child will enjoy that."

"nothing says I can't grow to love her."

"if you haven't fallen in love with her after all this time, I wonder if you ever will."

...

and it continued for a while.

 

This was all said with a loud voice or by yelling.

It ended with me just having enough and leaving him standing there (I looked back once and saw him walking back to his small group of colleagues who all had a kind of worried look in their face, lol)

 

Why do I feel so bad now?

It's quite funny... we never actually said those three words - I love you - to eachother, but we both goddamn well know we do.

 

Who is right in your opinion? Would it be wrong of us to be together now, morally (regarding another woman being pregnant with his child)? Or does true love know no such "morals"?

 

I am madly in love with him, but especially after this conversation I can't see us being together, not anytime soon if ever. Although there is nothing I'd love more than that.

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I read your last thread.

 

And all I am going to say, is I wouldn't want pursue a man who was choosing to be w/another woman. Baby involved or not. If it's so obvious that he's w/her and that's where he's going to stay, then you need to let it be. There is a reason he is not with you. Whether it's that baby or some other reason. Badgering or what not isn't going to change things. It is what it is. And quite frankly, I feel for the poor girl. I wouldn't want to be her in this situation.

 

Saying you know he loves you and that you two are meant to be ... doesn't change the fact.

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well if he's engaged to be married and that's the choice he's made, then you need to leave him alone. regardless of how you two may feel about eachother, if he chose to marry her, then he's off limits all together.

 

Sorry honey, this is a tough situation. Did he get her pregnant while you two were together?

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He has chosen to marry another woman so everything else is a moot point. If he chooses to end the engagement and reconcile with you then you two can talk things out. Right now the only thing that is important is that he is choosing to marry her regardless of how he feels about her or you.

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well if he's engaged to be married and that's the choice he's made, then you need to leave him alone. regardless of how you two may feel about eachother, if he chose to marry her, then he's off limits all together.

 

Sorry honey, this is a tough situation. Did he get her pregnant while you two were together?

 

Well, they were still together then but it wasn't planned at all. He broke up with her and a few weeks after their break-up, when him and me were finally starting to spend time with eachother again (and it was time damn well spent), she came to him and told him she was pregnant.

 

He was really shocked to hear that and even told me he wasn't prepared to become a Dad. He said he couldn't remember sleeping with her without protection and doesn't know how that could've happened.

 

 

Yeah, not ever again will I walk right over my integrity. I will not speak to him again. He made the wrong choice and by the time he realized that, it will be too late.

 

Good-Bye my almost lover! (God, that song by "a fine frenzy" is like totally made for us. It just fits so well, every damn word of the lyrics. We once danced together in the middle of a crowded street, just like in the song! I'm so sure it was written for us.)

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You really need to get over him and move on with your life. Don't destroy someone else life because you think he is love with you. If he love you he would be with you regardless of a baby. This is really wrong of you to do this, you are trying to make him feel guilty. Please move on, and do not interfere with them.

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OK, you're asking for honest feedback, so I'll tell you what I really think. Before I do I just want to say that I do feel for you, your situation is unenviable. And it's not surprising that you're struggling to find the right way forward.

 

That said, I think you've been playing games. If you were really in love with him, when the other woman revealed her pregnancy I think your instinctive response would have been "how are we going to handle this?" -- you would have made it clear to him that you were on his side, and by his side, no matter what. Yes, painful. Yes, awkward. But love can take those in stride. Instead you said that you couldn't handle it and you terminated the relationship, leaving him to deal alone with a mess that, yes, was his responsibility, but could have been approached much differently if he'd had your loving support.

 

When you ended things with him, I wonder if in the back of your mind you were hoping that he would make a grand profession of his love and devotion to you, and that maybe he would do what he could to convince the other woman to terminate the pregnancy (or put the child up for adoption). I wonder if you were hoping that if it became very clear to the other woman that this man is in love with you and you alone, and is determined to do whatever it takes to be with you then she would lose interest in having his child. If you see her pregnancy as a ploy on her part to ensnare him, then I can imagine you might believe that she would abandon that strategy if it was clear to her it wouldn't get her what she wanted.

 

He didn't want to end things with you; you're the one that ended your relationship with him. And you haven't told him that you've changed your mind -- so why would you start the conversation that you did today with him, asking him how he could marry someone he doesn't love? What was he supposed to say, "Well I love you but since I can't have you I'll go with her." ?!? His response to you was right: given that you won't be with him now that he's got a baby on the way, what business is it of yours who he marries? You deliberately removed yourself from the equation, so why offer such nasty, critical commentary on his choice?

 

If you want him back, I think you're going to have to let go of your pride and let him know that your heart has softened to his changed circumstances. It's not clear to me that your heart has in fact softened -- it seems to me that you're much more concerned about denouncing and getting revenge on the other woman, letting her know she's the "second choice," etc. Your bad impression of her might be completely justified, but if you really do love this guy you shouldn't be focused on her at all. All you should be thinking about is how to mend things with him. And needless to say, if you don't really love him you should bow out of this one. In fact, if you don't really love him, what have you lost?

 

Whether or not you really love him, your description of your recent encounter suggests to me that you are clinging to your pride -- and that's not going to help you at all if you want him back.

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Thanks to all of you for the replies! It's good to read people's opinions.Although I disagree with some of the things you guys said - but that doesn't matter because of course you don't really know the whole detailed story.

 

@ uhohlala - the thing is, we were both so devastated to hear about her pregnancy when it finally seemed like we were going to be together (it's like we're always NEARLY at that point and then something intervenes!) that our initial reaction was - "this can't work." (especially with her being the kind of person she is). Then it seemed like he thought about it and tried to convince me that we could make it together. I refused.

 

So once again I will try to forget him.

I've tried to do this quite a few times over the last couple of years and even though I have been dating many other guys, few of which were really great - deep in my heart there has always been only space for him.

 

It's just that... nobody compares.

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Then it seemed like he thought about it and tried to convince me that we could make it together. I refused.

 

Right. And this is why, if you want him back, you have to be willing to tell him that even before you know what he wants. He tried, you refused, he turned to the other woman. As far as he knows, you still don't want to be with him.

 

I don't mean to be harsh but even without knowing all of the details I think a few things are pretty clear:

 

1. you seem to be blaming him for this accidental pregnancy, and while yes he is 50% responsible for the pregnancy, he hasn't wronged you. This happened before you two got together. It's a difficult situation for everyone, not just for you. Your confrontation with him today indicates that you're harboring anger and expectations that he hasn't met (which just fuels your anger all the more). You don't sound all that sympathetic to his situation.

 

2. You seem to expect him to put your dismay and chagrin before all else, AND to understand, somehow, that your initial reaction doesn't reflect how you feel now. It kind of sounds like you expect him to feel a lot of guilt towards you, while simultaneously understanding that although you initially refused him you have now changed your mind.

 

I think you're still tripping yourself over the problem I raised in your earlier thread: He doesn't know that you've changed your mind. He doesn't know that you want him back. As long as you're going to give preference to your pride, the love you feel for him doesn't stand a chance. Not because of him, not because of her, and not even because of the baby. But because you haven't been willing to say to him, "I was wrong. I want to make it work with you. We can find a way to be together, despite the fact that you'll have obligations to your child."

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I'm gonna be straight forward: You seem VERY selfish. Even from just reading your words. All you talk about is YOUR feelings. It's inconsiderate. Have you ever tried thinking about how he feels or the person he has a child with? I bet you haven't. Have you actually thought, maybe he actually is in love with this other woman. If you love him, you should be happy for him that he is happy.

 

I'm suprised he didn't end the relationship with you quite honestly. I know most guys wouldn't put up with that attitude.

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I'm sorry you are going through this. I think the only thing left to do is just take the time to heal from this and learn that if you're not a man's top priority, then he shouldn't be yours.

 

If he truly does not have feelings for her, I think would be sad for all involved for him to stay with her. True, it's not ideal for a child's parents not to be together...but I don't think parents who are not in love should force a relationship for the sake of the child--that's been tried (and has failed) countless times by many many different couples. I think it's great that he wants to be there for his child--he should, it's what he's supposed to do. And all you can do is respect that. He's made his choice and now its time for you to realize that you deserve to be with someone who sees you as their top priority.

 

If someone truly loves you and wants to be with you, they will be. No matter who is carrying their child. I know it seems like it's not that simple, but I do think it is. I don't think that the fact that someone is pregnant with his child means that he should be with her if he doesn't really want to be. The fact that he's with her tells me he does want to be with her. Either that or he's under the belief that staying with her will be good for the child even if he does not want to be with her. If that's the case, it may seem like a noble thing to do now--but could spell disaster for all involved later on down the line.

 

He has not been faced with easy choices. That's for sure. But he has made one.

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I'm gonna be straight forward: You seem VERY selfish. Even from just reading your words. All you talk about is YOUR feelings. It's inconsiderate. Have you ever tried thinking about how he feels or the person he has a child with? I bet you haven't. Have you actually thought, maybe he actually is in love with this other woman. If you love him, you should be happy for him that he is happy.

 

I'm suprised he didn't end the relationship with you quite honestly. I know most guys wouldn't put up with that attitude.

 

Thank you, but you are wrong. It may seem to you that I only think of how I feel, but that's just not the case. When we heard she was pregnant, the reason I said it couldn't work because in my head I was thinking "it would be wrong. You have to be there for her, for your baby, how could you make time for all three of us? You may want to be with me but she will be your family now - that's where you belong." And that is what I told him. He denied this, saying he couldn't be with a woman he knows won't work out in the long run, and that "he will be a good father to his child but I am the one who matters to him, not her." his exact words. For as long as I have known him, I have nearly always put him first - I always took him and his needs into consideration, thought of him - with him, I was more selfless than with anybody else in my life. I think it's because it's the first time in my life that I am 'truly, madly, deeply' in love.

 

 

But the more I have thought about it lately (and I have pondered it like crazy) - I seem to have come to the conclusion that in order to be there for his child and to be a good Dad, he does not have to be married to its mother. Believe me, if this woman was a wonderful woman with a heart of gold, I would tell him "it will be hard for me, but go and be with her and give it a try - I'm sure you will find a way to find your relationship work." This woman though, whom I have known for more than ten years now .... uff, I won't even start that now. You can read in my last thread if you want to know what kind of person she is.

 

 

 

Also, I would like to explain that the things I said to him in the first post weren't said in a taunting, aggressive or accusatory tone, neither were his.

 

I am known for always having control over my emotions and I regret I didn't this time. We just shouldn't have started to talk about this subject.

 

Ah well...

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For as long as I have known him, I have nearly always put him first - I always took him and his needs into consideration, thought of him - with him, I was more selfless than with anybody else in my life. I think it's because it's the first time in my life that I am 'truly, madly, deeply' in love.

 

 

But the more I have thought about it lately (and I have pondered it like crazy) - I seem to have come to the conclusion that in order to be there for his child and to be a good Dad, he does not have to be married to its mother.

 

So why haven't you told him this? All of your pondering is for naught if you won't share this with him. No matter what tone you took in your last exchange with him, you were rhetorically chastising him since you neglected to tell him that you've had a change of heart about being with him.

 

Even in your last post I detect venom about the other woman. And for all that you "truly, madly, deeply" love him, you're unwilling to expose your feelings for him without first being sure that he will choose you over her now, despite being engaged to her. That's a pretty tepid love.

 

As for the ethics of the situation: you've already concluded (as many other posters have pointed out) that a child's best interests are not served by a loveless marriage. It is very possible for a child to be lovingly nurtured by two parents who lead separate lives, provided there is a foundation of respectful cooperation. So I think you can put that issue to rest.

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Elena - I apologise if I offended you or judged you in anyway. That is my fault, I should look at both sides of the story here, from you and from the guy in the situation. Ok so word for word you said he said 'he will be a good father to his child but I am the one who matters to him, not her." What I am trying to think here is why he would have a intimitate relationship with this other woman if he really does love you? Maybe he is confused? Did you do anything to make him go to her?

 

That is most loving if you were really being supportive of him and you did tell him to go with the other woman if it's the best thing to do, I see that. Could you be ok or happy if he did this? Are you concerned that he will not be happy with her and that he should be happy with you?

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What I am trying to think here is why he would have a intimitate relationship with this other woman if he really does love you? Maybe he is confused? Did you do anything to make him go to her?

 

Hmmmm...

that is what I am really quite frustrated about now. I mean, I guess he wants to give their relationship a try for the sake of the baby. Isn't it a known fact that men think more with their heads than with their heart? In his view, he should be with her now because of the baby.

 

If I did anything to make him be with her?

Well... nothing else than telling him that this doesn't work, and he has to be there for his family. That was right after hearing about her pregnancy though, when my emotions were still a complete mess!

 

That is most loving if you were really being supportive of him and you did tell him to go with the other woman if it's the best thing to do, I see that. Could you be ok or happy if he did this? Are you concerned that he will not be happy with her and that he should be happy with you?

 

Not only am I concerned that he won't be happy with her, I know he isn't going to be. But that has to do with the kind of person she is, and how different they are in so many ways. Why do you think he broke up with her?

 

The woman does everything to get her way. She succeeded one more time.

 

Oh, well. I don't need him, right?

I'm just going to forget about him. Which will be kind of difficult because I'm going to be seeing him a lot (we live in the same area, he's quite close with my Dad, etc.)

 

Maybe I should move away.

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