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He says he loves me, but doesn't know if he's still inlove with me


charliesmomj

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Hi,

I've never done this before, but I need some advice. I have been with my fiance Tom for 2 1/2 years. We have a one year old daughter. About 3 months ago, I left the company we both worked for. At that point his team started going out together. Happy hours, and "team builders" basically an excuse to drink. Well bc these people were my old co-workers I was invited, but my fiance seemed to never want me to go. There was a going away party for my old boss, and we made plans to go, but at the last minute he said he didn't want to go. About a month after that, out of the blue, he told me that he didn't think that we were right for eachother. I was shocked. We talked and I asked if there was someone else. He said no, but there was this woman that was on his team who is married that he had been confiding in at work. But insisted they were just friends. Long story short I caught him deleting call history of her calling him or vice versa, they are still on his bill. I confronted him about it and he said again that they were just friends. And insisted that we work on our relationship. Like a 180 to the day before. About a week later still being suspicious I told him that i had requested a copy of his text messages. He flipped out, and finally confessed to me that about a month prior while at a team gathering she had asked him to have an affair with her. That she had developed feelings for him yada yada yada. I asked him why he thought it was still appropriate to have confided about our problems AFTER knowing that. He got on his hands and knees and begged me to forgive him.

Fast forward June 2, the day after my bday. We have sex and he says he's gonna sleep on the couch bc his snoring had been keeping me up at night. I walked into the living room to find him on his phone. I asked him what he was doing and he said(after stammering) setting his alarm. After apologizing for being suspicious, I got into his phone after he fell asleep and saw in his drafts the interrupted message he was replying to her saying "sorry at 7pm that night. He told me that hadn't talked a word except business since 2 months ago. I asked him what was going on, he said she had drunk dialed him the friday before and said he wished he was out with her....and he said he said to her that she couldn't call him like that, that he wasn't gonna let her get him in trouble with me. I asked him why he had been lying to me. He said "I don't know if Im in love with you anymore. I love you but I don't know if i'm inlove."

One minute he's completely against working it out, the next he's suggesting counseling and distance. Wed. night he moved in with his dad 60 miles away. He wants to still talk to me everyday. He cries when he talks about our daughter. He tells me that I'm hard to live with. But when he gets home for the job he hates he doesn't pay attention to us just does online gaming til bed. If its been a really bad day he snaps at us.

I don't know what to do. Everyone tells me he's seems to be confused. LIke he's unhappy he just doesn't know how to fix it. Both of these times have seemed like out of left field. He admits that things had gotten better since april, but he said he's still not happy. We've had money issues for awhile, he isn't the bread winner in the family, and thats bc of his student loans and child support for another child whom he's never even met. I have never thrown that in his face bc i know how men are into their "male" roles as providers. I have never cared bc we are a family, a team. Anyway, I'm having a hard time knowing what to do. My daughter misses him so much, but i want him to have his space, but he wants to see her. How can he miss me if he sees me everyday. He told me that he would want to be my bestfriend still, mow our yard, i could have the house we just bought, and everything in it. He would give me all the money he has minus food and gas. And he wants me in his life not just our daughter. It doesn't make ANY sense its like one extreme one min to the opposite in a few minutes time. Tonight he said to call a counselor so i did. Our daughter cried when he pulled out of the drive way and i couldn't console her. He said a few months ago that if we were to end it he'd want to do it now while she wouldn't remember. But this is effecting her. What do i do? Right now he's staying with his dad for the next few weeks just to see if that's what he thinks is best, and we're going to seek counseling. Any suggestions?

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Well quite a few issues here.

 

Firstly, please do go to counselling, as both of you will be asked to work things through individually and together so it might throw some more detailed light on what has gone wrong. There are a few clues though - he SAYS she threw herself at him but it seems it certainly wasn't one way traffic from the texts and messages. If it was he would have told you straight away. Also something may have happened, as his 'guilt' reaction was way over the top for someone who is innocent. However I think there are some elements which show he was trying to avoid this, e.g. not going to that party etc.

 

Your daughter will be o.k., I promise, I have been there. Seeing him regularly will be important to her though so try and establish a routine while you are trying to work things out.

 

You have to get some trust back before you can let him into your life again and the counselling will take you through a process where you can decide if you are prepared to do so, whilst staying strong. Take care.

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Thanks! He said he originally didn't tell me bc i was already suspicious of her after the first time he came home from one of these get togethers. I asked him if he had fun, and he said everyone left but her and this girl i used to work with who i know is a **** he said he spent the whole time hanging with this woman making fun of the drunk other one. And from knowing this other girl and knowing they are friends, and she's a 37 yr old woman with 3 kids out til midnight with a **** and another man....made me kinda wonder what kind of woman she is. So he said he didn't tell me bc he knew I'd have a problem with him talking to her. And he said that he just wanted to be friends and she had to go and tell him she had feelings for him/

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Well who wouldn't have been suspicious - and you're right, married and with 3 kids and trying to be a homewrecker - ewww.

 

Did you take that conversation any further though - what did he say his response to her 'declaration' was and did he give any thought to her husband/kids....??

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Well he says she doesn't talk about them. When she told him she had feelings for him he says that he said "even though we have problems I love Jess and its never gonna happen" but he continued to cofide in her for another 3 weeks before he told me in april that he didn't know if we were right together. I feel like maybe she wore him down, or something. Also when i say her age its only bc we're both 24.......she's 37

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She might have tried, and if he loves you he may not have responded. Some women (and men) are very good at doing this and it's hard to stay strong no matter how committed you are. But maybe there is some hope as he seems to be trying to be honest with you now. Still, I think you need separate and couple counselling first as if he didn't tell you about this, it could happen again. I mean, did he tell her not to contact him and does she know the outcome for your relationship of her games? I've seen people jump on this opportunity, so he will have had to be firm and cut off all non-business communication with her. Not easy. Gotta go and take my babies to school now but back later. Take care.

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No, I have her cellphone number and its been hard not to call her and ask her what she's doing. But i don't like you said want her to jump at this vulnerable time for both of us. My biggest issue is his wishy washy behaviour. One min he's talking about four months from now how he'll have more money for child support and he doesn't think anything is going to bring back the spark, not even counseling (as his father suggested) The next he's saying "lets make me living with my dad a trial run for a few weeks, and get counseling." I feel like either he's just trying for Charlie, or he really doesn't want to end things but he did something bad and doesn't want to tell me and be the bad guy and have me leave him.

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OK now I hear she's 37 and you are both 24, it makes a difference. He won't leave her for you and his stories are more credible. Him being wishy washy however might relate to the fact that, even if he didn't do something, some part of him was tempted, or reacted wrongly, or even that he just feels guilty for not telling you and hurting you.

 

How are you now he's not around? Is it easier, more or less stress, could you do with a bit more time to sort things out in your head whilst establishing a routine for contact with your little one?

 

He doesn't seem to be 100% sure about coming back, have you told him you forgive him or are you having trouble with it?

 

Depending on the answers to these questions, it might be a good idea to have a sit down heart to heart. But TRY AND MAKE HIM STICK to his promise to go to counselling - book a date and time and somehow link it to contact with your daughter. Counselling is good at providing breakthroughs when you haven't been able to yourselves. Please let us know how you go on.

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I think he is behaving this way because he is confused.

 

It sounds like she's an older woman trolling for sex and attention from a young (naive) guy who is confusing that excitement with love. Affairs are very dramatic and addicting with all the sneaking around and longing and fear etc.

 

My advice is to agree to go to counseling with him, but to proceed as if he were gone. He needs to feel the reality of life without you and his daughter in it as his family, to really understand what leaving will cost him, and to understand exactly how much he will owe in child support per month (and be paying it to you the second he moves out, i.e., now). Go to an attorney and find out what you are entitled to in your state based on his income, then file to get it.

 

Once he is out on his own, he may well decide this other woman doesn't look so good to him. If she is married with three kids, i imagine that even if they moved in together, there would be a nasty divorce and he'd be stuck in a house with 3 angry kids and her expecting him to contribute to support them too. Or else she won't leave her husband, and just string him along and he'll eventually figure it out.

 

And realistically, if he takes up with this woman, she is not going to let him give you all his money except for food and gas, so that is an unrealistic promise, or a short term one at best. You need the agreement in writing, so i suggest you go to a lawyer and get something written up for him to sign.

 

But in the meantime, your daughter should be your priority, and get the child support you need since he has moved out. He is either going to come to his senses or not, but you need to take control of your life and he needs to either actively be working on getting back together and getting this woman out of his life, or needs to get out and pay you child support. He can't have it both ways, where he has this woman, while still playing happy family with you when he's in the mood to drop by. If he really wants out, let him, and move on with your life and find someone who is faithful and more interested in family life.

 

By the way, i think what goes around comes around. If he wants to come home every night and play games, if he does move in with this other women, he will have THREE kids demanding things when he comes home and no peace at all. He's really not thinking clearly at all, and will be quite shocked when his little love affair turns into a disaster (and it will, most affairs do).

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Well, after I posted this reply, I went to check on bills. Including his cellphone bill which i had posted a payment too using HIS credit card so his phone won't get shut off. When I went to make sure it went thru, it wouldn't let me in. After he got home last night he got straight online and changed his phone service log in. This upset me tremendously bc he is being sneaky. I called him (I know i shouldn't have) but he said he just didn't want me to have access to who he was talking to. IE this woman. Anyway i asked him what he was doing, he said he has absolutely no attraction to this woman that he just wants her friendship. He said he ended the friendship after all this stuff happened bc it was the right thing to do, bc we were together and working on things. He said but now that we weren't together he didn't see anythign wrong with being friends again. I asked him what would happen if counseling helped us, would he end his friendship again? He said yes. I asked him what was the point of the friendship if that's the case, and that i don't think that he will ever go whole heartedly into counseling if it means ending his friendship if it is important to him. He said that he doesn't see it was a situation of "it's me or her." That she doesn't mean anything to him and that I was completely right, that he shouldn't be friends with her, as long as he wants to work things out with me. He said he really wants to go to counseling, that he feels like he has a compass but doesn't have a direction and wants that direction to lead back to us, but right now he can't even imagine that. Any comments?

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This is what I thought might happen, she's managed to break you too up, he's in a separate place, I strongly suspect she is targetting him again. He is being quite weak about it though. Sooner you get that first counselling spot the better.

 

Gameplaying is no good (for example inviting him back to stay in the spare room would certainly thwart her plans!) but when everyone is confused it's not fair to anyone, including your daughter.

 

His behaviour with regard to finances and phone is not showing a lot of strength or integrity. You need to sit down with a lawyer and find out what your (and your daughter's) rights are straight away. I'm sure that will swing his compass much further in your direction

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Well I was recently laid off, and on unemployment, I work for the IRS but tax season was crazy this year, and short. I'm on unemployment and we aren't married, now that he is "living" with his dad, I could get public assistance, but this would cause the govt to go after his assets. We did our finances the day after he left, and if he leaves me permanantly he would lose everything. He can't afford all of his bills AND the amount he would have to pay me in child support. At the same time I don't want him to stay with me bc he can't afford to be alone.

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Sorry to be harsh about this honey but he made his choices and he has to live with the consequences. I would get him to sign a written (and processed by lawyers) agreement about what he will providing for you and your daughter, otherwise sign on and let them do their stuff.

 

He is dilly-dallying around at the moment but you need some financial security and stability and....let's face it...to grow up a bit.

 

Hope you manage to have a decent weekend *hug*

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He should have thought about his finances before he started fooling around with this woman. He's just not thinking clearly nor like an adult.

 

If he is serious about your relationship, he will give up this woman entirely and the counselor will tell him that. I suggest you get to a counselor ASAP.

 

But he could just be lying to prevent you going after him for child support. I would attend counseling for a while, but if he refuses to give her up entirely, eventually you will have to make the break and file for whatever you need to support yourself, including child support. He has to be responsible for the consequences of his choices, and your daughter shouldn't suffer because he made bad choices.

 

Frankly, a 37 year old married woman with 3 children is certainly a dumb choice for a guy with a one year old baby at home. He sounds like he needs to grow up a bit and not chase after every fancy that passes by, and perhaps the counselor will help him recognize that.

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Well he came over again today after work, and i left to run to the store to get baby food and diapers. He asked me if i would be back within an hour. Like he has something better to do than spend time with his daughter. Also about 30 min ago the counselor i called called me back and gave me info about sessions and stuff. I tried to call him to discuss it, but he didn't pick up. So i texted him and said "just wanted to let you know what the couselor said" i still have no response. I didn't cry, i didn't get upset. I tried to avoid eye contact. He's coming tomorrow to pick her up for the night, how should i be acting around him?

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I would just keep the appointment with the counselor, whether he goes or not. You could use some support at this time, and a counselor can help you thru this, regardless of what he does.

 

There's a chance that he is still seeing her and lying to you about it, but you need to try to get him to go to counseling and see what is going on. But if it really looks like he's lying to you, i wouldn't mess around and would talk to a lawyer to work on moving forward getting child support and getting on with your life.

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Unfortunately tonight did not go so well after I got no response. I called his dad bc he doesn't get signal out there but his dad does. His dad said he just got home and he wasn't there and he didn't know where he was. I KNEW WHERE HE WAS! I told his dad that i bet he was with her, probably out on the town, because she drunk texted him last friday night. Remembering the place where they hung out the first time together I drove straight there. And guess who was there. His car was parked outside of the bar. To make sure it was his car, i tried to open it with my key. And voila! it worked so i took his ID badge from work as proof that i had caught him. I was so upset i just drove around the bar in circles. I called his sister to see what she thought i should do. She said to go in there and confront him, but I had my daughter with me, so I didn't. In the midst of her agreeing to meeting me halfway and taking Charlotte, guess who decides to return my call. He lies to me and says he left his phone in the car. Duh I was just in there.....I asked him where he was he said at a place with his co workers. I asked him if she was there, he paused and said yes. I said I know you're there I saw you. Which escalated into him accusing me of bugging his car......i'm just not stupid, of all the places in this HUGE city, where would a cheater go to cheat his first free weekend night??? Maybe the place where he had so much fun with her when he met her. I am so upset, he refused to get into the car. He swore there was other people in there but when i asked if he could stay with our daughter and let me see for myself he refused. After we yelled at eachother for a few mins i didn't want to do it anymore, not in front of our daughter, he refused to let me leave said I'd have to run him over, which i didn't but i did drive off with the door open. He tried calling me, and eventually i picked up on the way home, this led to him saying he never really wanted to do counseling anyway, and i asked him if he was bi polar. He said I just push his buttons til he snaps, and then in a few mins he realizes that he loves me and shouldn't have snapped. Sound bipolar to you? My daughter saw me crying in the rearview mirror which led her to sob uncontrollably so i had to stop at his mom's house(which is halfway home) she just wanted me to stop crying. He said he wants to talk about all this tomorrow when he picks up charlie, i don't want to talk about it. Now what?

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He needs to know that you will not always be there waiting for him to sort out his attraction for this woman. He needs to know that you know you have other options. He needs to know that if he chooses her you will be gone from his life entirely, no counseling, no nothing.

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Agreed. He needs to know that he can't run around with this woman and have you waiting for him.

 

You need to decide whether you want to be with a person like this. He is being astoundingly self centered, and lying to you to cover up his actions, so I'm sure the affair is still in full swing regardless of what he is saying. I'm sure he moved out so that he was free to see her whenever he wanted (or whenever she was available, as she must be lying to her husband too).

 

I suggest you do go to the counselor since the counselor will tell him that the affair has to stop and he has to work on the relationship with you if he wants to be with you.

 

But i agree that he needs to not have you waiting in the background patiently while he runs around and cheats. If he won't stop the affair entirely, then i would throw him out and proceed to get aid for yourself and file for child support. You and your daughter don't need this upheaval and drama in your lives.

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I woke up this morning with a feeling like I hate him. For the first time in all of this I don't want to see him. I don't want to talk to him. I don't want him to keep my daughter overnight tonight. I don't know what to do. I really don't want to talk about it with him. Ugh!

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Some reason part of what i had edited last time didnt' go thru....but to add to that story. I asked him why he would promise me to not talk to her or be around her other than at work, just that day, because he said he wanted to work on things? He tried to say he wasn't talking to just her at the bar.......what a db.

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So sorry to hear about this. I really thought there could be a possibility of him just being indecisive instead of plain cheating. You and your daughter to not deserve someone like this and I do think that in time he will come crawling back to you. Do NOT give him the opportunity. Get the lawyers involved, close the door apart from contact with your daugher (formal only between you too) and ensure you sort yourself out financially. Goodness only knows what her husband is going through too and with 3 children. Good heavens, whatever happened to morality?? Take care honey and focus on you and Charlie x

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His idea of him moving out, and you having the house, and him staying involved with your daughter, would be a good idea, more clean cut than having him there messing with your head re his involvement with that woman, and with him being sneaky and not honest with you. He's going to be invlovled with her anyway, so it'd be better for you, psychologically, if he's not living with you. It would be better for your daughter if this happens before she's old enough to be more aware of the fact that he's leaving. He can still be involved with her life, but should not be allowed to treat you the way he has been. You've been good to him.

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Some reason part of what i had edited last time didnt' go thru....but to add to that story. I asked him why he would promise me to not talk to her or be around her other than at work, just that day, because he said he wanted to work on things? He tried to say he wasn't talking to just her at the bar.......what a db.

 

Now that you have gone through all of this, do you really need more evidence that he's CLEARLY cheating on you?

 

For a long time now he has been cheating emotionally and at some point he began cheating physically. It's not "the other woman's fault" for tempting him away. It's his responsibility for not being open about what was going on, for lying to you when he was caught, for insisting on continuing an emotional affair with her despite promising to go to counselling with you.

 

I know it's hard to understand why he'd promise not to talk to her/be around her and then go back on that, but that's central to understanding cheating. At the heart of cheating is lying. Constant, consistent, covert lying. They are ALWAYS lying. They lie so much that they sound convincing. And sometimes they even convince themselves. I would suggest that you have more than enough evidence to prove to yourself that he's not going to stop lying to you, confused or not.

 

I would suggest some individual counselling for you though. You don't need to be with a man who would treat you like this (lying, cheating, lying, lying, cheating, more lying etc). And I think there are some valuable lessons you might be able to learn from this relationship ... but that doesn't mean you need to beat your head into a wall trying to walk on eggshells for him.

 

At this point, you need to get over any guilt about taking him to the 'cleaners' financially and legalize everything as soon as yesterday.

 

1. Get legal agreements on support

2. Get legal agreements on visitation in the short term (pick-up, etc)

3. Get legal agreements on custody in the long term (how to pay for health care, also visitation and pick-up, whether you will agree to overnights)

 

You need to do this as quickly as you can and in a business-like manner. You and he are parent-partners now. I know that there is a lot of resentment, but if you can immediately make the process legal, then perhaps you can start dealing with him with a 'professional' air - no yelling, no fighting, just logic. Best of luck!

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Yesterday he came over to get Charlie for an overnight. He brought his bf with him to help him load some stuff up, tv, bike, etc. He was being so nice to me, and i just acted in a business sense, getting charlie ready and her things. I asked him if he wanted to go to couseling why was he taking all this stuff. He said bc he needed stuff to do at night. He patted my butt to tell me to get out of his friends way and i turned around and called him on it, he said sorry and that it was a habit. He kept calling me Babe. When it came time to say goodbye to my daughter i just held her and tears rolled down my face his bf saw this and excused himself to outside. Tom said to me "awww babe i'll have her back first thing tomorrow." Anyway so i was driving to pick up my friend for a concert and his bf wife calls me and asks me if i'm ok, that her husband had called her and asked her to call me to check on me. Later during the concert I realized i couldn't be away from my daughter all night, and asked if i could come get her, he agreed. I got there about 11:45 and I asked to use his phone, he freaked out on me, said absolutely not.....I took it and put it in my pocket (i know childish) but I wanted to whole truth and I refused to leave til i got it. 3 hours into the standoff (with my child sound asleep in a bedroom) he admitted to me that he has feelings for her. And that yes there were text messages on the phone from and to her. BUT he still refused to give me that password to read for myself. 3 hours later he stood over me as i tried to sleep and refused to move til he got the phone so i threw it behind me accross the wood floor and it busted into pieces. I went and laid down with charlie to try to sleep and he went to the couch, i realized quickly that i could not sleep there. So i got up and went to the room where he was, and found him sobbing. I told him that we had to leave, and he asked to say goodbye to our daughter. He carried her to the car bawling his eyes out. And I left. 20 miles from home i started to fall asleep and knew i couldn't make it home. I called his mom who lives nearby and asked if i could get some sleep on her couch, charlie was still sleeping in the back. I got there and got like an hour or so, and woke up, and started to talk to her about everything, she cried. She has no idea what to think either. She said he is identical to his dad, that its scary. Something me and tom had talked about the night before how he didn't realize he was just like him, and how horrible that was. And how it made sense now that his dad was telling him to not make the same mistakes he had. Anyway so after i got a nap (20 mins) I was feeling better and had somewhat more of a clear head. We had left Charlie's security lovey down there, and she doesn't sleep well without it. I called Tom and asked him if it was down there. His sister had already called his dad to check on Tom as a favor to me, and I knew he had gone to get his phone fixed. I told him I was sorry for breaking his phone, and he said "i'm sorry for last night, and for everything. I just need time to think, I want to work on things. I'm sorry." I told him that what i needed for him to do before i could even think about that, was to become and honest person, to be completely open and honest about everything. And that I know he's just not that person right now, so I'm giving him all his space. That he doesn't need to see me upset or cry, and he doesn't need to worry about me or feel guilty about me, that that isn't going to fix him for the right reasons. It won't fix us for the right reasons. He said that he would continue to take care of the things that i can't with our house, yardwork, etc. We just bought our first house 7 months ago. And with a baby, I don't know how to find the time to do everything there is to do with a house, its my first go 'round. What do you guys think about everything? I still feel like I haven't got the whole story yet. And I doubt I will. I don't know if I can ever move on until I know everything. Is that bad?

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