is this right? am I jealous?

[izthizjealousy]

Yesterday my fiance shared an email her best friend forwarded to her with me, which brought to light certain facts that I was unaware of

and I'd like to get the forums opinion. My fiance's friend is male and she presented him to me as 'just a friend'. We are in our 30's.

 

The email was one her friend wrote to a friend of his, and he forwarded it to her. Not sure why he decided to share this with her, or

why she decided to share it with me. Before she shared this email with me, she said: (just to preface this, we did NOT date).

 

Here is what she shared from the email:

 

' provides a very inspiring affirmation; that it is possible to date and love someone, go through a painful break up,

and then transition into an authentic and fulfilling friendship. After these last couple of days, it was a watershed moment for me.

In fact, I think and I care about and enjoy each other more in the context of a friendship than we ever did when we dated.

There’s more space and tolerance to be ourselves; it feels very free and nice. The price paid for the lack of possession is easily

made up by the more enjoyable quality of time.'

 

When I then asked why he'd be saying that they dated she said:

 

"Well, he must have thought about it as dates when I was thinking about it as hanging out.He must have been thinking it'd lead to a boyfriend

girlfriend thing. I think the first couple times I went out with him I might have been wondering myself, but then I realized he was just not

my type really for a lot of reasons. I mean, he's just not a dependable person and he's really pretty dirty going to sex clubs and stuff -

a real put off, but I enjoyed him as a person and wanted him as a friend".

 

She then went out to lunch with him and when she got back, we had the following IM conversation:

 

[14:39] me: did you ask him about your dating and painful break up?

[14:39] her: hahaha

[14:39] her: no, but he mentioned it again...

[14:39] her: apparently it was really hard for him when I started dating you

[14:39] her: but he's over it

[14:40] me: he interpreted that as a break up between you and him?

[14:40] her: no, he said he doesn't know what to call it

[14:40] her: (rejection)

[14:40] her: or maybe just disappointment?

[14:41] me: just seems funny to be calling it a break up, no? even in an email to you?

[14:41] me: like hello, we had a relationship to break in case you didnt know

[14:41] her: well, at first we talked about dating

[14:42] her: and maybe the first two or three times we went out

[14:42] her: they were "dates"

[14:42] her: but then I told him that I really liked him

[14:42] her: but not romantically

[14:42] her: and then, we just hung out

[14:42] her: so, maybe while we were going to parties or hanging out and stuff

[14:43] her: he thought that was something different than how I took it

[14:43] me: weird

[14:43] her: it's all so relative really

[14:43] her: maybe to him we did date

[14:43] her: maybe that's what qualifies as dating

[14:43] her: I don't know

[14:43] me: and never kissed or anything?

[14:43] me: i think id be able to tell

[14:43] her: oh, we kissed

[14:44] her: strange to think of it now

[14:44] me: really?

[14:44] her: yeah

[14:44] me: you never told me that

[14:44] her: yeah well

[14:44] her: did you and ever kiss?

[14:44] me: no

[14:44] her: I mean, why's it so important

[14:45] me: did you ever do more than kiss?

[14:45] her: c'mon

[14:45] her: are you kidding me?

[14:45] me: well it really surprises me that you kissed

[14:45] me: i had no idea

[14:45] her: well, like I said

[14:46] her: we went out on a few dates...

[14:46] her: I just wasn't really feelin it

[14:47] me: hon it just surprises me

[14:47] me: i didn't think it was like that

[14:47] her: was like kissing my brother

 

 

What would your reaction here be? It seems like she changes her tune from 'we did NOT date' to 'we went on a few dates' and she totally

left out that they kissed until I asked. That makes me feel like she concealed that they had a relationship, which makes me question

trusting her. And the first thing she said after I asked if they kissed was to ask me if I'd kissed a friend of mine - how is that relevant

(and of course I have not done anything like that)? Why would that be the first thing she had to say?

 

I have female friends, but if we ever kissed or dated, I don't call them just friends. I wouldn't keep a woman that I have a physical

relationship in the past with who was in love with me for nearly two years around as my best friend - this is because I feel it's disrespectful to my SO and that it

is a risk and potential problem I don't want to have. Is is a bad idea for me to marry a woman who would do this? Is my being hurt by this jealousy or is this situation indeed inappropriate to most people?

 

Thanks in advance for your opinions. I've never been in a situation like this so I feel totally out of my league.

[ScubaDiva]

It sounds like you have different values! This is the superglue in any lasting relationship. You have a decision to make about which path you are going to choose... Decisions are the most important acts we have to do in life. Good luck with yours! Remember that pain comes to teach us lessons and you should try and see these times as opportunities to grow. Wherever you are now, is where you are meant to be. Keep postive!

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I have to wonder why she is changing her story all the time, why she shared this information with you in the first place. It almost sounds rather passive aggressive to me. Clearly there was something more to their relationship and perhaps she showed you the email because she was afraid of it coming to light by someone else. It really sounds like she is not playing straight with you.

[skirt]

I was just in a relationship where someone casually left out important details about past relationships/current friendships unless I asked. I thought I'd only be in one, maybe two situations like yours, except it turned out that the more interested I became, and the more I learned, the more situations arose. Maybe five or six like this one in as many months. I mean, if you can tell one little white lie about something you know could really hurt your partner, what's to stop them telling more about similar situations with other "friends" or even about other things that might be important to you?

She's desperately trying to spare your feelings, but you don't need anyone patronizing you that way. It's time to get angry and let her know why.

[xSerendipityx]

Does she give you any indication that she is cheating? Does it really matter what she did with him before you 2 started dating? They are friends, take it as that unless otherwise.

[karvala]

Well firstly, I regard myself as quite sensitive to these sort of things as well, more than most, but not beyond a reasonable point I think, and so I understand where you're coming from. On the other hand, I don't think you should make this into more than it is.

 

Yes, she was a bit cagey, and no, I don't believe she's only just remembered that she did have something with this guy, so yes, has been less than 100% honest with you. I'm quite sure about that. On the other hand, assuming you accept that she never slept with him (it's hard to tell from that without knowing her personality, but I'm guessing her response to your question reads as an emphatic no to you, rather than an avoidance?), and their relationship never went beyond a handful of dates and a couple of kisses, and she doesn't want to spend large amounts of time with him in one-on-one situations, then I don't think he's a major threat.

 

People do have ex-bfs/ex-gfs still hanging around as friends when they're in a new relationship. It needs to be kept an eye on, because sometimes a recent ex can be bad news in that situation, but in the vast majority of cases it's fine, and perfectly okay. I don't think you can expect her to drop him as a friend based on what you've written. Just tell her that you want her to be 100% honest about her past relationships with you when you talk about them, no matter what that means you have to hear. I'm sure it will be fine.

[izthizjealousy]

I agree we have different values in this situation and some others.

 

Apart from that though, does it seem like she's showing that she's dishonest? I don't think of honesty as a value.

 

It it were only a difference in our values, that's to be dealt with one way. But, if this situation also shows that she's a dishonest person, I think everyone agrees that's not a good quality, no?

 

And no, no indication that she's cheating - but this looks like she was concealing this relationship by being dishonest, I think that's a pretty big character flaw. I can't trust a liar and without trust, what is there?

 

I'm not sure how to interpret her avoidance of the 'did you do anything more', but she's slept with over 50 men. If she has slept with him, how does this change things? She said kissing him felt like kissing her brother, so maybe that means she did not.

 

Most of the time she spends with him nowadays are one on one lunches.

 

We have hung out in group settings, but there have been instances where it seems like she let him decide if it was a one on one thing between the two of them or not.

 

And, I'm cordial with some ex's of mine, but not best friends.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Does she give you any indication that she is cheating? Does it really matter what she did with him before you 2 started dating? They are friends, take it as that unless otherwise.

 

 

I think the real point is the lying and cover-ups, not so much what actually took place before he started seeing her.

[ScubaDiva]

She is clearly being dishonest - a bit distant perhaps?

 

Honesty is the value of speaking truth and creating trust in minds of others. This includes all varieties of communication, both verbal and non-verbal. Honesty implies a lack of deceit. A statement can be strictly true and still be dishonest if the intention of the statement is to deceive its audience. Similarly, a falsehood can be spoken honestly if the speaker actually believes it to be true.

 

Honesty is typically considered virtuous behavior, and has strong positive connotations in most situations. A principal reason for this may be that honesty simplifies communication, in that honest statements can be trusted at face value, not necessarily as true, but as genuinely believed. Additionally, honesty helps to form bonds of trust in human relationships.

 

Conversely, dishonesty can be defined simply as behavior that is performed with intent to deceive. Lying, lying by omission, fraud, and plagiarism are all examples of this sort of behavior. Other examples can be doing one thing and telling the other, as if you are hiding something.

 

While there are a great many moral systems, generally speaking, honesty is considered moral and dishonesty is considered immoral. There are several exceptions, such as hedonism, which values honesty only insofar as it improves ones own sense of pleasure, and moral nihilism, which denies the existence of objective morality outright. Additionally, even in moral systems which approve in general of honesty over dishonesty, there are situations in which dishonesty may be preferable. A common example is a "white lie", a lie which is told in a situation where telling the truth would have served no purpose and would have caused pain. While they are dishonest, the motivation behind the deception is the avoidance of suffering, rather than personal gain or the evasion of responsibility common in many other forms of dishonesty, and so white lies often are viewed, if not as completely moral, then at least less immoral than other types of lies.

 

Honesty can simply be defined as refusal to lie, cheat, and steal in any way. Honesty is the truth.

[izthizjealousy]

I think the real point is the lying and cover-ups, not so much what actually took place before he started seeing her.

 

Yes, I agree. I posted here because I wanted to confirm that what she did here was dishonest ( i feel it is ).

[Kaiser_Soze]

It's a touchy situation. It doesn't sound like there's anything between them now. There's not much that turns a woman off quicker than an over jealous boyfriend. It also robs you of your swagger. I honestly think they may have done more than kiss, but if you two were not together, does it really matter? I understand it's the lie thats getting to you right now, but she probably feels like it's not a threat to your relationship and doesn't trust that you won't overreact and make her discontinue contact with him. She is trying to avoid a complication that truly doesn't need to be. If I were you, rather than trying to pry this confession out of her, show her you trust her and are secure with your relationship. Longrun this will serve the relationship much better. IMHO

[izthizjealousy]

It's a touchy situation. It doesn't sound like there's anything between them now. There's not much that turns a woman off quicker than an over jealous boyfriend. It also robs you of your swagger. I honestly think they may have done more than kiss, but if you two were not together, does it really matter? I understand it's the lie thats getting to you right now, but she probably feels like it's not a threat to your relationship and doesn't trust that you won't overreact and make her discontinue contact with him. She is trying to avoid a complication that truly doesn't need to be. If I were you, rather than trying to pry this confession out of her, show her you trust her and are secure with your relationship. Longrun this will serve the relationship much better. IMHO

 

This is what I'd like to do, but I feel like I may just be living in a false reality doing that. We have a 4 month old and are getting married in 2 months. I don't want this to blow up. I'm just not sure it's ok to be with someone who lies.

 

And - i was just thinking - if she really wanted to avoid a complication that doesn't need to be, she could a) do that by deciding to stop see this guy herself rather than b) lying to me about their relationship. What does her choice there say? Sounds like it's more important to keep him around than be honest with me.

[Kaiser_Soze]

This is what I'd like to do, but I feel like I may just be living in a false reality doing that. We have a 4 month old and are getting married in 2 months. I don't want this to blow up. I'm just not sure it's ok to be with someone who lies.

 

I completely understand where your coming from, I have been in a very similar situation... it sucks. You want them to trust and feel comfortable that you can handle the truth and that is the real priority. Unfortunately they don't see it that way, whether it be past expierences, the fear of losing what she has with you, or just simply feeling like it doesn't really matter to the present, she may have to work up to that confidence and trust level with you. The real question is how is she as far as honesty and trust with other aspects of the relationship?

[izthizjealousy]

She's been dishonest once before and it was about something pretty huge. After she was about 4 months pregnant with my son she dropped this bombshell on me that she used to be a stripper and an escort.

[Kaiser_Soze]

 

And - i was just thinking - if she really wanted to avoid a complication that doesn't need to be, she could a) do that by deciding to stop see this guy herself rather than b) lying to me about their relationship. What does her choice there say? Sounds like it's more important to keep him around than be honest with me.

 

 

Honestly, I'm not convinced of that... What you have to answer for yourself is, "Is she lying to me about their relationship NOW?" Forget what they had or didn't have, thats a waste of time and doesn't matter unless she cheated on YOU. It doesn't sound like she has the slightest bit of romantic interest in this guy. Keep your vibe relaxed and confident or you'll be pushing her away.

[Kaiser_Soze]

She's been dishonest once before and it was about something pretty huge. After she was about 4 months pregnant with my son she dropped this bombshell on me that she used to be a stripper and an escort.

 

But she told you... and that took guts! Can you imagine how hard it was for her to tell you that?! And while pregnant... she did it to be fair to you. I think that says a lot about her in a positive way. Just my opinion though.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

She's been dishonest once before and it was about something pretty huge. After she was about 4 months pregnant with my son she dropped this bombshell on me that she used to be a stripper and an escort.

 

 

Oh boy...she is lying big time about her past. How did the other bombshell suddenly come out in the open? She is hiding very key things about her past that showed what her values were. Was your child an accident or planned? Do you know for sure that is your child? I would have to wonder what other parts of her past she is hiding. This is strike 2.

[izthizjealousy]

We were not using any protection or doing anything at all to prevent pregnancy, but we didn't sit down and say 'let's try to have a kid' - so I can't say it was an accident. I knew she could get pregnant and that was ok with me.

 

I agree it took guts for her to tell me about her escort past. That so far from anything I would ever do I cannot even imagine how I could live my life after that, let alone how I would behave in future relationships. I think that's why I'm ok with this lie - because I can just guess that it would seem an impossible thing to bring up early in a relationship - like you'd never be able to have one. It came out because she just decided to tell me. She also mentioned she gets harasses every few years by a former customers wife and she figured at some point she or maybe even her sister would tell me.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Sounds like she is only telling you things when she realizes the cat may come out of the bag from someone else. I wonder how many other bombshells she has which so far have not been threatened to come to the surface by outside parties.

[Sparkly Eyes]

I don't really see dishonesty in her words. I mean she said she really did not classify that as dating even though they kissed. And she did not change her story, just added details when she saw you were more curious. I wouldn't think it is a big deal. If you guys are long distance though, I understand you being worried.