The Dog Whisperer's methods

[hers]

I'm not too familiar with his stuff b/c I haven't watched much of it. I watch much more of Victoria Stilwell on It's Me or the Dog. Of course, I think Ceasar is much more famous.

 

I've always read that alpha rolling a dog is NOT a good method to show your dominance over them. I have a dog-aggressive dog. She doesn't like other big dogs. She's very unpredictable about it though--some she likes, some she wants to kill. I never know. I've alpha rolled her before and it doesn't work. I am watching an episode of DW right now and he's alpha rolling a dog. I have done it the same way he's doing it with this dog and it doesn't work with her.

 

He also introduces this dog to other dogs with a muzzle on. I've never done that. I'm wondering if I should do that. I'm also wondering if alpha rolling is actually bad. I mean, if this guy is doing it and he's this famous, it's gotta have some merit, right?

 

I don't take Leeluu to the dog park b/c she's too unpredictable. There are a few of my clients' dogs that I can walk her with (other boxers, coincidentally) and she does fine. I'm actually with her at a client's house now and the two dogs are playing fine. She's always liked him. But other dogs, she wants to kill.

 

Anyone have any words of wisdom? I hate having to tell people to stay away if they pass us on the street. I know a lot of it has to do with me and she can probably feel my tension and energy, but evn when I'm completely calm and not even thinking about her killing another dog, she wants to kill them. Drives me nuts!

[TechResQ]

My Bloodhound is the same way. He does ok with females, but not with other male dogs. Unless I bring them in the house and really work with the introduction part of it with Beau. If it is out on the street or a dog park...I am afraid he would kill another dog. He weighs 140 lbs and is super strong.

 

I think a lot of Beau's dog aggression is him wanting to keep other dogs away from me. He hates it if I pay attention to other dogs.

 

I feel your pain!

[hers]

Leeluu is protective of me. I was in a park (not a dog park) one time reading a book and Leeluu was off her leash and walking not too far from me. This dude comes up and lets his golden retriever off leash and the dog comes bounding for me. Leeluu went nuts and went straight after this dog. The guy chewed me out for having my dog off leash, but I told him he should never let his dog run up to people/other dogs without knowing how their dog is. I don't get it.

[IphigeniaSaysHi]

If she's protective, then it wouldn't seem like the alpha thing would help, right? Don't dogs want to protect their superiors?

 

Hmm interesting.

[greywolf]

That's odd. I actually don't see Cesar alpha roll a dog that often. I think I've only seen him do it if the dog is human aggressive (is that the term? And he usually just does that until the dog gives up trying to bite him.

[DaBladeRoden]

Victoria Stilwell's awesome

[hers]

That's odd. I actually don't see Cesar alpha roll a dog that often. I think I've only seen him do it if the dog is human aggressive (is that the term? And he usually just does that until the dog gives up trying to bite him.

 

he was dealing with a dog-aggressive dog and alpha rolled her when she tried to go after another one.

[greywolf]

he was dealing with a dog-aggressive dog and alpha rolled her when she tried to go after another one.

 

Is alpha rolling actually bad though? I'm not an expert on dogs, but I read somewhere that the problem with alpha rolling is that the human is made vulnerable, and not that it's actually bad for the dog.

[greywolf]

All I know is that cesar's dog, daddy, is the most well-behaved dog I have ever seen....

[hers]

Is alpha rolling actually bad though? I'm not an expert on dogs, but I read somewhere that the problem with alpha rolling is that the human is made vulnerable, and not that it's actually bad for the dog.

 

that's what i've read too. that a dog can come back and kick your ass if they don't like it and that it doesn't always work. that's why it was surprising to see him do it.

[TechResQ]

Leeluu is protective of me. I was in a park (not a dog park) one time reading a book and Leeluu was off her leash and walking not too far from me. This dude comes up and lets his golden retriever off leash and the dog comes bounding for me. Leeluu went nuts and went straight after this dog. The guy chewed me out for having my dog off leash, but I told him he should never let his dog run up to people/other dogs without knowing how their dog is. I don't get it.

 

Me either!!! And what a dumbsh*t for letting his dog do that! One time I was running with Beau and I saw an older couple on the running/walking trail and they had a little Schipperke...I knew I had better stop and keep Beau at a sit/stay until they passed (so I had better control of him) and when they got close I asked them to not let their dog come up to Beau and what do they do?!?! Yep, the lady said, "Oh know, he's ok" and before I had the chance to say, "Oh no, he isn't", she let her dog come right up to Beau and Beau jumped on him! tufts of black hair flying everywhere. The lady screamed and the man picked his dog up and they stomped off. I was llike..."DUH., Told ya!" I didn't really say that, but I wanted to.

[greywolf]

From Wikipedia:

 

Despite his results, some view his methods as outdated. Among his methods are quick leash corrections, quick assertive touches, and walks to drain energy. One controversial method he uses is the alpha roll, where he physically rolls a dog on its back.[20]

 

Dr. Nicholas Dodman, the director of the Animal Behavior Clinic at the Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine of Tufts University, has said "Cesar Millan's methods are based on flooding and punishment. The results, though immediate, will be only transitory.

[laisla]

cesar is awesome.

[TechResQ]

Hmmm ^^^ interesting...

[hers]

From Wikipedia

 

Yep, figured!! I've watched much more of Victoria Stilwell and she trains by positive reinforcement instead of punishment. That was the first difference I noticed between the 2 of them.

[greywolf]

Although, he does the alpha roll in a very gentle way.

[girl68]

Well the protective nature of your dogs means your dog is your pack leader. Cesar bases his training on getting the dog to to be a member of YOUR pack, and not the other way around.

 

I think the most effective thing Cesar does with dog aggressive dogs is "re-directing". Some people argue with him that it's impossible to snap the dog out of it. Here's the key: re-direct him BEFORE he gets into the aggressive mode. This take a lot of time reading his body language. Once the dog sees another dog and his tail goes on high alert, ears go back, you yank the chain to the side not back... back does nothing. Ceasar says side is effective because it creats an (and I quote) "out of balance experience" and the dog snaps out of it like "What the hell was that?" You have to catch the behaviour before the dog escalates into the DIE DOG DIE mode. Oh, also I always see him use the collar higher on the neck, not low like on the shoulders. Dogs are very strong when the collar is low on their neck, they can pull very hard, but they cannot pull when the collar is right behind their ears. Dogs can't pull with thier neck. Keep that in mind as well.

 

Muzzles are excellent for aggressive dogs, if anything it protects a lawsuit against YOU. Good idea.

 

Anyways hopefully one piece of that can help you!

[hers]

Thank you. I never knew yanking it to the side. I have re-directed her--distracting her from other dogs before they get near her. Hasn't worked.

 

In terms of pack leader, she definitely knows I'm boss UNLESS there's another dog around. Anything else, I'm very dominant over her and am able to keep that dominance.

[girl68]

Although, he does the alpha roll in a very gentle way.

 

He does, and it's not like he physically hurts the dog, the dog is submitting- most dogs get dominated in packs anyway. Ceasar is just being an alpha dog, what's the harm in that?

[girl68]

Thank you. I never knew yanking it to the side. I have re-directed her--distracting her from other dogs before they get near her. Hasn't worked.

 

You're on the right track, but you have to catch it immediately, as soon as your dog looks- YANK! (or kick)... dog thinks WTH!? Sheesh... shakes it off... looks again- YANK dog thinks... DAmn, what's going on. You get the idea.

 

Ok next time you see a dog and your dog sees it too yank to the right, and call attention to the dog. Make her look at you and give a command. If she looks back at the dog yank again. Hard and always to the side... do it so the dog actually kind of trips over herself as if someone pushed you to the side... WHOA gotta re-gain your balance right? I think the same idea.

 

If the yanking doesn't work give her a hard kick to the thigh. (If your dog is big- it doesn't hurt). If you watch DW, you'll see what I mean by the "kick". It has to be hard enough to make it very obvious she's been kicked but not so hard your kicking your dogs butt.

 

Either of these methods only work BEFORE she gets aggressive... once she's in the zone... you've lost already.

 

Hopefully she will realize she's not allowed to look, and then over time maybe she can look without freaking out. You can allow her to look... but if she leans forward, in an aggressive stance... take charge.

 

IUnno, I don't have a dog... but these a few methods he's employed that I've seen work.

[hers]

She doesn't try to go after them if they're accross teh street or something. But if someone wants their dog to meet mine or something like that, that's when it's bad. Otherwise, if we're on the street and we see one from afar, she doesn't care about it. It's only if we're walking right past it or if it tries to come toward her.

[girl68]

Oh I see.... hmmm muzzle is a start.

 

Is she even aggressive with dogs that are well behaved? What Ceasar does in this case is he brings in a very well behaved dog (that knows what to do when a dog is aggressive towards him) and he never has a problem. Your dog probably doesn't know how to greet.

 

Maybe try getting a few well behaved dogs together (but your muzzeled and on a leash) and you walking one of them go up and greet another dog. Have your dog watch this. If she whines or is jealous... the person in control of your dog should "snap him out of it". Let all the dog greet eachother and play. Then have the most trustworthy dog come up to yours let them sniff, yours should still be muzzeled. If she looks like she's getting annoye, umcomrfotable or aggressive, snap her out of it.

 

She's probaly jsut not been socialized and doesn't know how. They key is OTHER well balanced dogs that won't let your dog get away with being aggressive.

 

Ceasers dog all run away from dogs that seem aggressive... you need dogs that can dectect this from yours? Can she go into a dog class with lots of other well behaved dogs in a controlled environment?

[hers]

I've had her since she was a puppy. She was socialized from the start--always around other dogs at the dog park, dog beach, friends' dogs, etc. Then my boyfriend at the time and I rescued a very aggressive Boston Terrier. She has not been the same since. I'm positive she learned her aggressive behaviour from him. For example, if someone knocked on our door and we opened it, Steve (the BT) woudl literally run out and try to bite them. Leeluu, the friendliest dog in the world wiht people, started trying to do that too! We ended up having to have Steve leave our house, and she's been dog-aggressive ever since. Her people aggression subsided, luckily.

 

A couple months ago, I let her outside in the middle of the night to pee. I just open my door and let her out--I don't put her on a leash. She stays in the yard and comes back when she's ready. I noticed she was taking a long time, so i went outside to get her, and a neighbor was in the yard (I live next to an apt complex and there's a huge grass area) and he said he wasn't sure whose dog it was but he wasn't worried b/c she had a collar and tag and also b/c she was really friendly. She was playing with his dog! The dog wanted nothing to do with Leeluu--he wanted to pee on everything. But she was chasing him an spinning and being playful. I was so surprised. I wasn't expecting anyone to be out there so late at night so I didn't think twice about getting her out there. I was extremely surprised too.

 

So it's not a socialization thing. I really think she wants to pick and choose who she likes. It's weird.

[girl68]

A special case for the DW, he gives good consulations before his work begins!

[Anon21]

That's why they tell you not to try anything at home without professional help, etc. He knows what he's doing with his techniques, that doesn't mean it will work for others.