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I see highly educated single women everywhere!


LAYAAN

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I'm venting... I'm only putting my thoughts here... I'm not accusing any gender here. I'm simply trying to understand things.

It hit me so hard, I can't tell you. These are very highly educated women, 2 of them are in MD/PhD program. They were married to guys who were not even close in education with these women, but they still chose them for love. These girls were still nurturing, caring to the relationship. They told me separately that over n over their husbands bashed them and said "you are stupid, you are an idiot. why am I not getting fresh meals? you are always stressed." Who likes to hear that? Where is love? Where is that caring feeling? She is already stressed with school. why are you bashing her? Why do men behave like this? Is it jealousy? Are they angry at themselves for not getting higher education? Is it something else? After a while these women started to believe that they were really good for nothing. Can you imagine that? These men have no respect for my friends' hard work, the way they kept everything at home n school together. I look up to these women. They are my source of strength, but now I look at them and they seem to have lost confidence, courage. I see them at school. I told one of them "I'll not bash your ex. I will tell you something though, you are what you are. You have to believe that you are a good person, that you are a strong woman, that you are a bright woman. Don't let him tell you that you are not." I don't encourage people to get divorced but if things are down to a point that you feel that your dreams are dieing, you are thinking that you are a looser, your spirit is getting crushed, thats not a good marriage.

I joined some meetup groups and saw that there were women in their 40s n 50s that were highly educated, talented women, I went for tea with them and just sat down and listened. These are clearly very capable women. No longer in marriage. I'm not pitying them at all. I just don't understand if this is some era of women liberty in the social history of the western world.

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Just because a woman has higher education does'nt mean she's perfect.

 

Granted the men should'nt speak to them like that, but they need'nt bow down either. Maybe they are intimidated by the fact that the woman is bringing home the bacon etc. thats an issue they have with themselves.

If their spirit is getting crushed by someone, they should get out regardless of why.

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I chalk this phenomenon up to insecure husbands. I went on one date with a man who had a position of responsibility greater than mine but no degree and I didn't need to marry him to see how insecure he felt that I was more highly educated. The women were exercising their freedom of choice by becoming highly educated, then they picked men who couldn't stay proud of them but rather resorted to abuse rather than make their own positive choices.

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There are two sides to every story ... who knows what happened there! You're really getting only half of the information, and a very biased half at that.

 

That being said, yes, there are some men who feel threatened by successful women, and it can hurt when you hear them denigrate accomplished, smart, successful women. I remember a guy telling me that he saw a hot woman in a magazine, and then when he read that she was an engineer she instantly became much less attractive! Sad ...

 

However, I know A TON of guys who love smart and ambitious women, and who would love to marry someone like that. So you just need to find one of those men, and believe me, there are plenty!

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My husband and I both have advanced degrees - I would say he is more intelligent than me (he disagrees). I always dated very intelligent, highly educated men and was in serious relationships with at least half of dozen of them from age 20-38. I never had the problems you described, and neither did my friends, far as I can tell. I am not denying that there are relationships that are like what you describe, that there is continued discrimination against women and stereotyping of "career women" (whatever that means), but I haven't experienced it.

 

I have met women who can't remove their career hat in social situations (and men who do the same, but we're talking about women in this post) and who come accross as, alternatively, arrogant, boring, and/or socially awkward. So the problem is not the education or the career but their personalities (and again a man can have the same issues of course).

 

I think it's very important in a relationship that each person respect the other person's goals (career, family, whatever they are) and be a source of support - and that's not limited to those with advanced degrees, that's true of everyone.

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thanx batya and sophie,

your post gives me hope. I have never dated a man equal in my educational level. There just are not very many of them. I honestly don't care, being able to live well together, supporting each others dreams matters more to me, but a few of them certainly gave me that attitude. My ex (who got his PhD) constantly told me that I was not gonna get mine.

As I'm crossing 30, I wonder if I'll ever meet a man that I end up marrying? I haven't met such men Batya and Sophie, but I'll take your word for it and stay hopeful.

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thanx batya and sophie,

your post gives me hope. I have never dated a man equal in my educational level. There just are not very many of them. I honestly don't care, being able to live well together, supporting each others dreams matters more to me, but a few of them certainly gave me that attitude. My ex (who got his PhD) constantly told me that I was not gonna get mine.

As I'm crossing 30, I wonder if I'll ever meet a man that I end up marrying? I haven't met such men Batya and Sophie, but I'll take your word for it and stay hopeful.

 

Well, I don't have a PhD, but I'm getting my undergrad degree at a prestigious university, and there are a lot of men there who are very attracted to smart, ambitious women.

 

I know one couple where he has an MBA and she has an MPhil from Oxford, a few MD-MD couples, and in all of those situations the husbands are very proud of their wives' accomplishments and very supportive (and vice-versa!) My mother has an MS and my father has an MBA - no problems there. And of course my aunt and uncle, whom I'm currently living with, both have law degrees. They're both very well respected in their fields. My aunt is a fantastic litigator, and we all admire her for it!

 

Don't give up hope!

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1) it sounds like abuse (calling them stupid and idiot and expecting their meal on the table when both work / study).

2) traditionally women - and up until very recently women had no access to higher eduation - have been taught to please their man so it could be very conflicting for them to reconcile work, studies, relationship, family, especially if they are being criticised, let alone abused

3) traditionally men have been taught that a woman's primary role is to take care of the home and family and of her man, so they may feel entitled and they may feel threatened by her higher level of eduation

4) the women are choosing to remain in an abusive relationship

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An analogy for this is that they married men who wanted a nice ox cart to haul the chickens to and from market, but what they 'bought' was a Ferrari.

 

The Ferrari might be an incredible high powered machine, but if what the men really wanted/needed was an ox cart, the Ferrari is useless for that and they will be dissatisfied because they need/want an ox cart not a sports car.

 

So it is a question of a poor selection of mate (where their wants/needs were mismatched), or people who grew in totally different directions.

 

Maybe what the man really wanted was a docile stay at home wife who was a good cook and housemaid, and if those needs are not getting met they don't care that the wife has all these other good qualities and her own job that they don't care about. They're basically asking their wives, 'what's in it for me?' and don't care about anything else.

 

Sometimes i think the real reason is that a highly educated woman who can have a good career doesn't need to put up with a lot of verbal abuse/nonsense in a man. They can leave because they have other options and can support themselves. So if the marriage is not working out for any reason, they can leave, whereas a less educated woman without a career can't afford to leave and has no way to support herself and her children very well. So she stays.

 

So the woman's education level may have absolutely nothing to do with why the marriage failed. The marriage may have failed because the guy was a jerk, and the woman decided not to stick around for the abuse. Or else the guy really wanted a subservient stay at home wife, and the woman wanted more for herself than that.

 

So in many cases i don't think a career woman is penalized for it, i think it gives her the freedom to leave a bad marriage sooner than a woman who has no resources or self esteem. So perhaps those women are better off than you think they are, in that they don't have to put up with a bad relationship, while someone who is a waitress or minimum wage/part time worker may have no other alternatives, and just suffer silently in their own marriages for life.

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"An analogy for this is that they married men who wanted a nice ox cart to haul the chickens to and from market, but what they 'bought' was a Ferrari."

 

You just stole words out of my mouth. This is what I always say. You don't need a BMW to go grocery shopping. You can go walking, you can go in an ox cart.

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Speaking as a woman who's getting her PhD now, I can see that your friends' examples - while sad - are not universal. I've dated and had long-term relationships with both highly educated and intelligent men, some with advanced degrees, and men with only high school educations. Each relationship had it's problems, obviously, or they wouldn't have ended - and I don't claim innocence in all of the problems. But no one EVER called me stupid, and I wouldn't tolerate that.

 

I certainly have run into problems with jealousy and insecurity, even from the highly educated men. But they've expressed it in terms of their feeling bad about the education difference. None of my exes ever used that as an excuse to lash out at me and bring me down a notch (now other things that I am insecure about, sure, just not that specific topic).

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These are very highly educated women, 2 of them are in MD/PhD program. They were married to guys who were not even close in education with these women, but they still chose them for love.

 

First of all you are making it sound like those women with degrees did a favor to their husbands by marrying them. Just because some one has a high degree does not mean they are superior to the other. I have a feeling that this might be one of your problems Tinu. I guess you feel that only people with equal educational qualifications and job profiles need to date and marry. If you think that falling in love requires some qualifications then you are dead wrong.

 

Second thing - You are only hearing those sob stories from your friends. You are friends with these women and you are hearing their side of the story. How would you know what exactly happens in their homes? How would you know those educated women are carrying themselves with their husbands?

 

I once dated a girl that had completed her Master's degree and was working as an Engineer. I was still doing M.S. at that time. Man... that girl was horrible. She kept going on and on about how she is an educated woman and a professional. Again and again and again. At every turn of the way she would say "Do you know? I am a proffesional woman". Ok so? .. And slowly she started imposing rules on me. Like what time I need to wake up, what I should eat, etc etc... There was ZERO romance going on there. I got tired of it and ended it finally...

 

So you never know...

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Maybe these guys are just using the degree as an excuse because they know it's something they can't disupte.

 

for example, if you want to break up , and you say, "You are not funny enough" or "you are not smart enough" then the person can try and persuade to think differently.

 

however, they can't disupte the degree.

 

it could have nothing to do with it.. and the person is just bothered by something else and is using the PhD as a reason.

 

I have two friends (women) their PhDs and their husbands only have a high school diploma. It doesn't cause any problems. Both of these guys have good jobs and are passionate about them so it makes no difference.

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Its kind of annoying that people think you are intelligent if you have a degree. Yeah, you are intelligent I'm sure, in your field. I'm not saying you're not intelligent in other places too but its like saying people without one, are'nt.

 

You can be hugely intelligent and not have a degree, like my husband.

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