theory: shy guys are afraid of violating "rules"

[steve33]

the "rules" are the wussified standards you think are law, but they actually aren't, because in reality the guys that treat women poorly (which women enjoy in many cases), get the women, while we post online on friday nights (though I admit I'm going out soon). I think we think that there are a set of rules, and that they cannot be violated. But those rules are what are holding you back..

[Timebandit]

the "rules" are the wussified standards you think are law, but they actually aren't, because in reality the guys that treat women poorly (which women enjoy in many cases), get the women, while we post online on friday nights (though I admit I'm going out soon). I think we think that there are a set of rules, and that they cannot be violated. But those rules are what are holding you back..

 

Agree that many "nice guys" (or should we just call them passive or passive-aggressive guys) have some misconceptions about what is proper behaviour.

 

As for women enjoying being treated poorly... you are as far of the mark as the "nice guys" you are aiming at....

[Umlunguusa]

It's not so much that Shy guys don't get women for being "sweet and nice"; it's that they're afraid to be bold.

 

WOMEN DON'T WANT TO BE ABUSED!!!! I repeat, WOMEN DO NOT WANT TO BE ABUSED!!! The reason why they choose the "Badboys" is because they're bold, confident, and sexual--everything a "nice guy" isn't.

 

If you've ever seen the movie "Rebel without a Cause", starring James Dean, you'll know what women want: a man who has a soft side, yet isn't afraid of danger; someone who is sweet, loving and sensitive, yet'll gut the man who messes with his girlfriend; someone who abhors violence, yet isn't afraid to step up to the challenge.

 

In my opinion, that's what women want; Many women consider me a nice guy, because I'm really soft around them, but they never consider me the "shy guy", because I'm not afraid to flaunt my sexuality (not perverted, though) and I'm not afraid to be the man in situations; to be bold, confident, and a leader; THAT'S what women want.

 

the reason "nice guys" never get dates, is confidence: CONFIDENCE IS KEY!!!

[JusticeLaw9]

In that case,

 

Yes I am very afraid of violating the 'rules.'

 

My rules.

 

My own personal code of conduct. Because I am not going to say or do anything that would make me uncomfortable or feel as though I've done wrong. Regardless if she may like it or not. She may not respect herself enough to really value that there are people out there who can respect her (even if she doesn't respect herself).

 

And I believe that in full confidence.

 

Because for me, the goal is no longer the quantity of phone numbers in my phone book; but rather the quality of one or two good ones that will hopefully put me close to the one I am looking for.

[stingray]

This is all BS I don't know why we find it so wrong to be a nice guy and even go as far as labeling them passive aggressive. Just be yourself and with experience of trying to go after the girl you like you will get out of your little shell.

 

Seriously, if I really was a shy guy I would feel very hurt reading some of the stuff posted in this section.

[Timebandit]

This is all BS I don't know why we find it so wrong to be a nice guy and even go as far as labeling them passive aggressive. Just be yourself and with experience of trying to go after the girl you like you will get out of your little shell.

 

Of course, there is nothing wrong about being a genuinely nice guy (i.e. being kind, caring and compassionate). There is nothing wrong in being shy either (although, it makes your dating life a lot harder).

 

It's just that many self-proclaimed "nice guys" are in fact not very nice. They just behave unassertively or passively in order to appease other people.

 

Unfortunately, using the "nice guy" term usually leads to a discussion about semantics , rather than a discussion about what separates the kind, caring and compassionate guys from guys who are just using niceness as a frontend to cope with their insecurites.

 

The important thing is the behaviour - not whether we call them "nice guys" or not.

[quiet_guy]

What rules? That's silly. The only rules are the rules you make for yourself. Any woman (or man) that has some silly set of rules you must adhere to for interacting to them isn't worth the time of day.

[galaxy71]

Women do love nice guys. It's just that many of the nice guys who have trouble finding a date possess traits that women do not find attractive in men.Some nice guys are socially isolated. Some nice guys are needy and deserate. Some nice guys are too serious and never flirt. Some nice guys are boring. Some nice guys are too shy and are anxious in social situations. Some nice guys don't have the social intelligence to learn from their mistakes when it comes to dealing with people.

 

I was watching the TV show Apprentice tonight. Did you see how Joan Rivers was able to work the crowd with her humor and impromptu skills? Yet she doesn't have any problems admitting that she is a terrible cook. There are a lot of "nice guys" who are great at math and science. Yet they are terrible at dealing with people. Not everybody can be a Leonardi da Vinci. People have different stengths and weaknesses. Michael Jordan was a great basketball player, but a horrible baseball player.

[tom1607307597]

I get the feeling alot of guys who fall under those traits you mentioned have those traits in combinations. For example, a shy, anxious nice guy might be lacking in social intelligence, and also be socially isolated. Those three really hurt a guy's chances of getting a date.

 

As for rules, if anything I can think of them as 'misconceptions' about how women want to be treated. For example: growing up I was taught to be really respectful towards women, but you don't learn till later on(through personal experience, friends, etc.) that you also need to respect yourself and not put women up on a pedestal in being 'respectful'.

[quiet_guy]

I don't think many women care if a man is 'too serious'. If you are a serious person, you run the risk of coming accross as fake if you try to be funny. Reality is everyone can't be funny or interesting.

 

Trying to change yourself in order to get a girl to like you rarely works. You will either come off as fake or trying too hard. It's true being confident in who you are and not being clingy is important, but I would argue that you aren't placing much confidence in yourself if you come to the conclusion that you are too 'boring' or 'serious'. There is nothing wrong with being serious or not flirting with women.

 

Some people are serious by their nature. I think trying to be funny when you aren't funny is a bigger problem. The problem most 'nice guys' have is probably more of a self-confidence problem. I don't think many women care how aggressive a man is, but I might be wrong.

[CrazyKing]

I had exactly the same kind of theory, and as I rememmber my years at school - yea, I was always afraid of doing something the way it shouldn't be done, that I'll be violating some kind of rules, sort of...

 

The problem is - even if a guy behaves quite primitive and lousy around a girl, there is still a factor called "being yourself" - a complete idiot who likes being an idiot is a whole lot more attractive to women than a genius who pretends to be an idiot...

[galaxy71]

There is a difference between acting versus growing into a better person. One of the moderators did a great job talking about how you can grow into being a better person without putting into some act. Where did you come up with the idea that not flirting with women is a good idea for someone who is not flirtatious. Do you think girls find it sexy when some guy never approaches women because he doesn't like to flirt? Flirting doesn't have to involve being some teasing, cocky, fratboy. Flirting can involve something as simple as being a good listener or complimenting someone on something you like about that person. Flirting is about showing interest in someone you like. And another thing trying to be interesting doesn't mean you have to be something that you are not. Talk about your hobbies and interests.

[quiet_guy]

I think there is a serious difference to be had between flirting and simply showing interest in someone. Listening to someone when they talk isn't really the same thing as flirting, nor is complimenting someone.

 

Assuming all women are the same is probably how most of you guys end up with problems. My problem is that I'm quiet, and a lot of women don't like quiet men or incorrectly assume that they have self-confidence issues. But I won't change that about myself, because I'm quite content with how I am.

 

The kind of woman I would want would be the kind that would take the initiative with me, so in my case my behavior might make more sense (Another entirely valid way of looking at this is that I'm a self-absorbed egotist and regard flirting as entirely beneath me).

 

In general, the advice on this forum is good. Being shy is never good. But there is also a difference to be had between being shy and simply being quiet.

[JusticeLaw9]

I just try to be myself.

 

Somedays I feel very social and don't mind mingling, other days I don't and just prefer my own space. I can pull a woman and get her phone number if I choose. But as of late, I haven't been up for the challenge. I think there's some work in my life that needs to be dealt with before I start approaching and talking to women again.

 

And it's not a confidence issue. But I've just come to realize that most the situations in my life with women could've been better. Some have gone south for a reason, some others just weren't meant to be. I am taking a stand at the ones that I've made mistakes on and vowing to learn important lessons from them. I feel that this will improve me and make me an even greater catch for my next opportunity!

[galaxy71]

Being a good listener and complimenting someone is showing interest in someone. Flirting is about showing interest. Do you really think it's fun when some woman gets annoyed because she doesn't know why you want to have coffee with her. Not all girls are mind-readers. I don't think it's an enjoyable experience when some girl thought that the reason why I wanted to hang out with her was the fact that I was looking for a new friend. A lot of introverted guys don't have problems approaching women, showing interest, and avoiding being boring with women they like when neccesary.

[dr_styles]

As for rules, if anything I can think of them as 'misconceptions' about how women want to be treated. For example: growing up I was taught to be really respectful towards women, but you don't learn till later on(through personal experience, friends, etc.) that you also need to respect yourself and not put women up on a pedestal in being 'respectful'.

 

Same here. I wasn't "taught" any social skills really and my parents were (are) very overprotective so I didn't even get to learn naturally through school friends who'd invite me to places (didn't go cos of parents making it a pain). And naturally you hear girls being treated bad, sexual assault/harassment adds to the hesitation.

 

And how you come off, what others think of you, is generally a shy guy attribute (all of it) - and nice shy guys don't want to come off as creepy.

[flash83]

i think by following all the rules will make the guy predictable and boring- girls love spontaneity.. well most do.

 

i find a lot of the rule followers are also very self-conscious about themselves and get embarrassed easily.