Recession over - a ploy?

[Sn0man]

I'm not sure i've put this in the right place, but it was the closest I could find.

 

I've been watching the news the last couple of days, and seen a lot of 'positive' talk when it comes to the economy. Phrases like "Financial markets best gain in X number of years", "manufacturing sales up", "dollar gaining" etc etc etc...

 

I'm wondering if this is some sort of psychological ploy to get the markets moving again, because i'm not seeing any changes around here - not yet.

 

I suppose it's a good idea though, change opinions and maybe change the market. After all, the market is heavily dependant on consumer confidence.

 

What do you think?

[jul-els]

It's the leader and chief's job during troubled times to boost morale. The proof is in the pudding.

[mgirl]

I'm not sure whether it's over, but just incase, i am watching my money. Lol

[waveseer]

If all it takes to end the recession is a little positive thinking, I'm in!

[doyathink]

The thing is...they know if they talk about something long enough...we'll all believe it like mindless robots.

No, I don't believe it.

[Sn0man]

The thing is...they know if they talk about something long enough...we'll all believe it like mindless robots.

No, I don't believe it.

Ahh, but the great majority are mindless robots.

 

Whether this be psychological warfare on the economy or not, I sure hope it works. And I think, at least in the short term, it will. Look at the financial markets, last two days, up.

[doyathink]

Ahh, but the great majority are mindless robots.

 

Whether this be psychological warfare on the economy or not, I sure hope it works. And I think, at least in the short term, it will. Look at the financial markets, last two days, up.

 

You're right. Most are. Thats the damn problem with this country.

 

Yeah, if it works....I guess it cant hurt anything.

 

Its like them saying it was going to freeze in Columbia...and the price of coffee shot up almost double. Oooh, our cows are infected with Ecoli, and mad cow. Beef shot up to a ridiculous price. All they have to do is sayyy it...and bam!

[jacques]

It's the leader and chief's job during troubled times to boost morale

 

Maybe we should all hold hands and sing "Coumbiyaa". Come on, it's not supposed to be like this. The G20 meeting wasn't a finacial resolution to a serious problem but rather a bunch of frat boys and girls getting togather for a photo op for the college newspaper.

The only thing that was resolved was that every member country of the G20 kicked in some money to the IMF for poor and underdeveloped counties (totaling 1 trillion US Dollars). Oh I forgot, they smiled and played a lot and President Obama gave the Queen and I-Pod that she didn't need.

OK, What the US economy is based on now is monopoly money. Nothing backs it up, not gold, not titanium, not diamonds, not oil. But what we got is (like the phrase in that movie that your parents forced you to watch as a kid) HIGH HOPES. Thats right fellow taxpayers, the yankee dollar (and with that, the Value of ALL CORPORATIONS that make up the DOW) is valued on PERCEPTION. This is why the giggles and grins were so rampent at the G20. This is why China and Russia want to replace the dollar as the major world currency with a new currency that is based on something (gold) that actually has value and is not just paper. Lets say for example you are playing a game of monopoly with your family and friends right now. But you have a edge because you are the only one that holds the special "MONOPOLY MONEY MAKING MACHINE". Now, your out of money but it's your turn to roll the dice, all you have to do is get past Boardwalk and Park Place to pass GO and then you can collect your 200.00. But the dice was not kind and you landed on Park Place and you can't pay the rent. What are you going to do?? Your going to have too whip out your trusty Monopoly Money Making Machine and make you up some money to pay the rent on park place and maybe a little extra.

When you do that in a game it's just a game. When you do that in real life it's Inflation, and thats real trouble.

[doyathink]

We've been playing with 'monopoly' money since when....1940's?

[Sn0man]

We've been playing with 'monopoly' money since when....1940's?

Yeah, money is based on nothing but the value placed in it by people.

 

And what's with this thing i've been hearing about ... the 'Amero'??

[doyathink]

When Canada, the US, and Mexico join up for union...we'll have the amero dollar, and the other currency is gone. It's Suppose to hit soon.They were shooting for May of 08...but as you can see...didn't happen.

[jacques]

We've been playing with 'monopoly' money since when....1940's?

 

1973, Nixon took the United States off the Gold Standard

[DropToZero]

Yeah, money is based on nothing but the value placed in it by people.

 

And what's with this thing i've been hearing about ... the 'Amero'??

 

That's a theory... the idea that the dollar will decline to absolute nothing... as in the creation of all these bailouts and creating money out of thin air... obviously, that will create inflation and more debt(more = less value, basic principle).

 

Nothing's still proven in writing yet... but there's speculation that within a couple years your dollar won't be worth anything and you'll trade it in for "Ameros" or another type of international currency. I.E. out of crisis come drastic measures sometimes... and don't say it hasn't happened before because it has.

 

To the OP, I highly doubt it's over... in fact I think it's only just beginning. People will get angrier, over the wasted tax dollars, the frivelous(spelling?) spending of bailout money and will begin to revolt when they can't even afford food for their families due to inflation and no jobs and will be angry at Congress for screwing them over with these bailouts... this is only getting into politics though, and again only theories of a possible chaotic USA. I'm praying for the best, but preparing for the worst I think... but I will not allow it to affect my life and go into hiding.

[jul-els]

We've been playing with monopoly money since the Federal Reserve was established in 1913. The Amero is a part of the International Bankers' plan to break down sovereign borders and establish a one world banking system. That's what digital currency and the Euro were established for. The Amero is the next step in the plan to combine the North American continent and facilitate free trade. The current recession has been causing peoples attention to shift a bit more away from their cell phones and tv remotes and wake up and smell the hose job a bit more now. The truth is no one really knows what the outcome is going to be not even the top dogs. The plans for a New World Order have turned out to be much more messy than originally intended. How things will play out is anybody's guess at this point. The final power grab ain't gonna be pretty though.

 

A good book on the subject is "It Came From Jekyll Island" by G. Edward Griffin.

 

Here's a couple good links on the subject:

 

link removed

 

link removed

[Anthropic]

I still see too many fundamental problems in the US economy for there to be a recovery. I don't think any amount of consumer confidence is going to save the day this time around, people are just plain broke.

 

I also call BS on the Amero. Don't think it's going to happen and if it does it won't be in my lifetime, and I have *fingers crossed* a lot of life left in me.

[rocio]

It's not quite that simple. There are many indicators of future economic activity. Some look good, others look bad.

 

I think the honest truth is that nobody is quite sure whether the recession is over or just beginning.

 

The way economic game theory goes in a situation like this is that it is in people's best interests to lie to them - in this case, to pretend that things are improving to get investment back up. However, that only works a few times. Pretty soon people catch on and stop believing the lies. Then, not only can you not improve things, but people stop listening to you, so you've actually make the situation worse. So the only long term solution is to simply tell the truth.

 

However, I think that policy makers figured that - just this once - they would try to lie to us. It didn't work as well as they thought it would. Up here in Canada, our prime minister seemed to be the last person to notice the recession. Even while it was in full swing, he was denying it fully. Perhaps he was trying to boost investor confidence or maybe he was trying to get re-elected but either way, he's lost all credibility with us. (Due to other reasons as well, but I don't want to get this thread closed down!)

 

Basically, they're pulling out all the big guns. Trillion dollars here, trillion dollars there.. Man, my grandkids are going to be paying this crap off. And the really, really scary part is that none of it seems to be doing a whole lot of good. Markets respond well for a couple of days, then it's right back to fear and panic.

 

The way I see it, you pretty much need at least 2 or 3 elements for things to really get bad. I'm talking Great Depression bad. At let's remember that the Great Depression was by no means the worst depression the world has ever seen. And let's also remember that a depression today has the potential to be worse than ever before - globally - because we are so connected to every community in every corner of the earth.

 

Okay, so these 2 or 3 bad elements:

 

1. Strong and sustained economic downturn.

 

*check*

 

2. Environmental issues (ie: drought - great depression, North Korea, Zimbabwe...)

 

*hello climate change!*

 

3. Political instability (ie: Hitler lurking in the background)

 

Has anyone noticed how a few of these dictators who came into power in the 60's and 70's are now about to croak anyday? Castro, Mugabe, Kim Jung Il? What happens when they go? Hopefully good things, but the potential for disaster is there. And Iraq and Afghanistan have the potential to break into chaos at any moment. All it really takes is one psycho in one country, as we learned from Hitler.

 

 

...Basically, I pretty much think we're screwed. The perfect storm is coming, IMO

[jul-els]

Yeah, I think the party of the 20th century enjoyed by first world nations is over. It's the morning after and we're sitting at the onset of a very nasty hangover. Our resources have been tapped out. Everyone's going to have to re-learn how to live within their means and have a bit more thought for their fellow humans as well as thier environment. The problem is the power brokers are going to cause a hell of a lot of chaos on their way down. At least they're gonna try. Hopefully thier house of cards will fall more on them than us. I don't see how though when they're the ones pulling the strings. It all hinges on how aware the general population is. Of course there's still things like pandemics, drought, and famine to consider also. And of course, thier all time favorite tried and true pastime, war. A perfect storm indeed.

[bmwm3]

because the stock market is up doesnt mean, the economy is getting better... today we had another 660k jobs lost for march.. its up to 8.5% unemployed or 14 million people without jobs... its only gonna get worse..

 

as far as jobs we are gonna bottom around 2nd half of 2010... then we will start building jobs hence economy will get better..

 

stock market going up.. means nothing.. its just traders pushing it around.. making money...

[StretchGee]

The recession certainly isn't over and whether we have 'hit bottom' is debatable. While the financial crisis that triggered this mess is starting to clear, the amount of political uncertainty is still pretty high. Future legislation on taxes and spending will affect the economy, but no one knows where that is headed yet.

 

So I don't think it is a ploy. The economy is what it is. Sure, the politicos do their little propaganda thing, but what you need to do is watch actions not listen to the words.

[StretchGee]

I still see too many fundamental problems in the US economy for there to be a recovery. I don't think any amount of consumer confidence is going to save the day this time around, people are just plain broke.

 

Certainly a few people are broke, but by and large the issue is people are not spending. Too much uncertainty. At some point there may be a spurt of spending, then we'll see inflation and more instability.

[glegend]

I think its getting better at least here in Canada. The weekend at the store was really really busy and I was selling bbq's like crazy. Mind you though its not as bad here as it is/was in the states.

[Alezia]

I definetly don't think the major cities of Canada were affected all that much. Though I think it's also because the governments sponsor a good chunk of the jobs in Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto etc...

Who the heck gets fired there anyways ? =)

[Seraphim]

We were not affected as badly as the US. Our laws prohibit the housing and banking collapse that happened there. Sure people lost money, mostly in investments, and manufacturing jobs in the auto industry. The auto industry thing has been happening for years, and the stock market will rise again and I have time to make up what I lost.

[Anthropic]

Certainly a few people are broke, but by and large the issue is people are not spending. Too much uncertainty. At some point there may be a spurt of spending, then we'll see inflation and more instability.

 

I actually think people not spending is a good thing right now. Get out of debt, build up savings and create a solid base for the future. It'll hurt the economy but ultimately you need that solid foundation. Notice that the US government is spending like a madman? I'm not sure they realize yet that they are actually broke.

[DropToZero]

I actually think people not spending is a good thing right now. Get out of debt, build up savings and create a solid base for the future. It'll hurt the economy but ultimately you need that solid foundation. Notice that the US government is spending like a madman? I'm not sure they realize yet that they are actually broke.

 

 

Yeah I'm in a Dave Ramsey class right now at my church with my girlfriend, we're only 6 weeks into the class but we're already both out of debt completely... and we've already cut up our credit cards, set up a budget(which I still believe we could be even more strict on, but just so we have a life we leave some wiggle room) and we've saved a couple grand already.

 

Spending money you don't have is ridiculous, and the government is number one, and the idea of living debt free is ridiculous to most people too, but you know what... I'm loving it. Understanding how bad credit is for you, and how debt basically equals slavery, has made my life ten times better... too bad the government probably won't realize they're broke until someone calls the debt... then we'll have issues.