Is it appropriate to have a friendship with the opposite sex?

[walkinnahaze]

My wife has become good friends with another man. I don't want to rehash some of my earlier posts, but to summarize, my spouse and I are currently living apart (about 600 miles). I recently discovered she had sent or received 180 texts with this man over a 30 day period. She seems to share more with him than me, and communicates with hiim much more freely.

 

I recently read an article on yahoo about emotional affairs and she hit 4 of the 6 items listed for "you've probably crossed over a line."

 

She swears up and down there is nothing there - she has no feelings for this guy other than being a friend. She acknowledges that she does probably invest more time in this relationship because it is easier than our relationship. Her body language towards him seems much more open and friendly than it does to me.

 

The last time I travelled home to an event for my kids, this guy seemed to avoid me, and avoided eye contact. While my wife and I were on a date later that night, he texted her. (What do you call a Bee who scares other Bee's: A Boo Bee.) He is going through a divorce that hit him out of the blue, and his Mother died very recently, so he is probably emotionally needy (but hey, so am I).

 

So my question is simple. Is this an appropriate relationship for my wife to be having? She swears up and down it is friendship only, but I see more to it. Am I being paranoid? Is it ok for her Best Friend to be an available male? Any suggestions on what I can do 600 miles away without seeming like a Jealous cad?

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Deny Deny Deny...that is the typical modus operandi of someone who is embarking on an emotional affair. Yep, your wife is having an emotional affair, if not physical. Your concern is very justifed and you need to sit down and have a talk with her. You need to tell her that this puts your marriage in jeopardy and that if she is that unhappy with you then the two of you should be working it out rather than her having long conversations with another man.

[tictactoe2006]

This guy is very clearly 'building the connection' with your wife. You need to talk with her about this now.

[annie24]

it sounds like this friendship is crossing the line. she shouldn't be investing more in her relationship with him than in her relationship with you. i would definitely tell her that the relationship is making you feel uncomfortable and that you'd like them to cut things back. even if she doesn't have feelings for him, i'm almost certain that he has feelings for her, especially with his divorce, he is in an emotionally unstable point right now in his life. she owes it to HIM not to lead him on and she owes it to you to remain faithful to you.

[odile]

It is perfectly acceptable to have friends (even close friends) of the other sex.

 

However, not all so-called 'friendships' can be guaranteed to be appropriate.

 

She seems to share more with him than me, and communicates with hiim much more freely.

 

I recently read an article on yahoo about emotional affairs and she hit 4 of the 6 items listed for "you've probably crossed over a line."

 

She swears up and down there is nothing there - she has no feelings for this guy other than being a friend. She acknowledges that she does probably invest more time in this relationship because it is easier than our relationship. Her body language towards him seems much more open and friendly than it does to me.

 

The last time I travelled home to an event for my kids, this guy seemed to avoid me, and avoided eye contact.

 

 

Perhaps they are just friends from her perspective,

but it does sound like he may have some (perhaps undisclosed) deeper feelings towards her.

 

Him not even making eye-contact with you seems a bit odd.

If in his heart they were just friends, it's likely that he would have been friendlier towards you.

At the very least he should have made a little effort to be pleasant and share some small talk.

 

If you are her boyfriend, then you should be the closest person to her, in terms of what she is sharing-- not this other guy.

So, for example, if something amazing happens to her (say, at work or something),

then she should be calling you to to share the news before she calls the other guy.

 

If he might have feelings for her, she should be very conscientious of this fact.

The guy is having a rough time, and if she is going to be a good friend, then she should be there, but with firm boundaries in place.

She must avoid inadvertently send him some signals that will only be upsetting to him (and potentially to you) in the long run.

[Binoo]

"She acknowledges that she does probably invest more time in this relationship because it is easier than our relationship".

 

Tell her she needs to get her priorities straight.

If she cares enough, she'll lay off all the time she spends on this man and I don't think you would be out of line requesting that very bluntly.

[tictactoe2006]

A little history: my first wife had a 'friend' too, that they would text, etc. Everything seemed fine - until one day I had a bunch of men at MY home moving M family away from me. They were also nice enough to actually pool their money together to get the tramp an apartment, and a lawyer.

 

DEMAND his # and DEMAND his email immediately, and tell her that either SHE contacts him and severs this connection, or YOU will do it.

[Iceman26]

Never deny your gut feelings. They are almost always right.

 

Yes, there is likely more to this situation than it is meeting the eye. The fact that the guy avoiding you alone is a sign of guilt. He knows damn well what he is doing and he knows it isn't right.

 

Personally I would talk to your wife and let her know you no longer want her to have communication with this man. I don't give a good god damn if she "swears there is nothing going on". That is what they all say. Tell her it makes you uncomfortable and it stops immediately.

 

Then I'd call that guy and tell him to stop contacting your wife.

 

Then I might take some time off work and spend time reconnecting with your wife because she is obviously needing something more from your relationship if she has been in contact with another man.

[tictactoe2006]

Iceman 26,

 

it's almost like we're brothers or something. You sum it up perfectly. I bet once this guy gets the call he finds another 'friend' to confide to.

[blueeyedme]

The question really is simple....do you trust your wife. If you do - what's the issue. If you don't, there is a bigger problem then her friendship.

 

I am a single guy and my best friend in the world is a married woman whom I absolutely adore. Her husband is friendly towards me - but I don't think he likes me much - I understand that. However, there is absolutely nothing between us except a very good and supportive friendship. Were she to divorce, I would certainly want to explore if there was something more there - I have no idea if she would be interested. Most would consider this an Emotional Affair as the boundaries are a little fuzzy at times. There is however, no danger of either of us crossing the line. She is married to the love of her life and he is one of the luckiest guys in the world - even if he doesn't always know it.

 

So in short, don't jump to conclusions and make crazy threats and demands of your wife because you will drive her away. I'm not saying close your eyes, but talk it through, tell her why you are uncomfortable and ask her what she is getting out of the friendship and trust her. After all, of all the guys in her life - she picked you.

[Day_Walker]

It is appropriate to have friends of the opposite sex but typically one person has feelings for the other person, that is just the way that things seem to go. It seems that they are communicating frequently and due to the fact that you are not there she is looking for attention and she is getting it from this guy. Whether she is being innocent in this matter or not there appears some be feelings by one of the parties.

 

Approaching these kind of issues is very tricky just because you already sound like you dont trust her because you have already asked her if she has feelings for this guy. I think that you need to realistically look at if you can salvage your relationship or if the point of no return has been crossed.

[Ms Darcy]

Her friendship is inappropriate because one partner is not comfortable with it. You are far away, she admits to investing more in it than with you, their body language isn't right, and they text waaay too much. I would guess that this friendship either began or escalated after you got together, which isn't good.

 

It's one thing if they had always been friends, but here she is clearly 'getting from him' an emotional bond that she's not getting from you.

 

The question is: has she ever expressed some dissatisfaction about your relationship? Her needs aren't getting met, and that might be resolved by closing the distance gap or some other means, but let's focus on understanding that for the moment. A good long talk is definitely in order and expressing your feelings of discomfort will be necessary too.

[walkinnahaze]

Thanks all for the input.

 

I'm still not sure how to approach this. Our marriage is clearly rocky. I've been away in Iraq prior to our current living conditions, so we have been apart over 18 months.

 

In short, my wife is showing signs of Walk Away Wife Syndrome, only she has walked away from our relationship but has stayed in the marriage. (And I don't think she would ever want a divorce because of the kids) I understand her unhappiness, and am working at changing myself, however, she refuses to deal with my unhappiness.

 

She knows, very clearly, that I do not like her relationship with this guy. To the point that she lied to me about going out with a group of people, in which he was one. I've told her I consider her to be having an emotional affair. She never replied when I told her that.

 

To be honest, I don't know if I am upset over how close they are, or over the fact that she interacts with him how I wish she would interact with me.

 

My wife has always suppressed unpleasant feelings. She would be morally against having an affair, so if she did have feelings for this man, she would deny and suppress them to the point where she may not consciously realize what she is telegraphing to me.

 

She harbors enough resentment towards me, that if I "forbid" her to have a relationship with him, it would probably do more harm in the long run than good.

 

I feel like I've changed as much as I am able to with us living apart, but I honestly don't know how to react to her. If I ignore it, I'm scared it will blossom to something more, but if I attack it, she will feel like I am trying to control her. She is not capable of taking into account my feelings, her mindset is 100% dedicated to her happiness.

 

I am between a rock and a hard place.

[odile]

I'm still not sure how to approach this. Our marriage is clearly rocky. I've been away in Iraq prior to our current living conditions, so we have been apart over 18 months.

 

In short, my wife is showing signs of Walk Away Wife Syndrome, only she has walked away from our relationship but has stayed in the marriage. (And I don't think she would ever want a divorce because of the kids) I understand her unhappiness, and am working at changing myself, however, she refuses to deal with my unhappiness.

 

How were things before you left for Iraq?

Is there any chance that some part of her had an irrational (and negative) response to your having been away for so long?

 

She knows, very clearly, that I do not like her relationship with this guy. To the point that she lied to me about going out with a group of people, in which he was one. I've told her I consider her to be having an emotional affair. She never replied when I told her that.

To be honest, I don't know if I am upset over how close they are, or over the fact that she interacts with him how I wish she would interact with me.

 

she's being really thoughtless. Furthermore, lying is something that I just don't think has any place in a relationship.

 

My wife has always suppressed unpleasant feelings. She would be morally against having an affair, so if she did have feelings for this man, she would deny and suppress them to the point where she may not consciously realize what she is telegraphing to me.

She harbors enough resentment towards me, that if I "forbid" her to have a relationship with him, it would probably do more harm in the long run than good.

 

This sounds really unfair, selfish, and manipulative.

 

 

I feel like I've changed as much as I am able to with us living apart, but I honestly don't know how to react to her. If I ignore it, I'm scared it will blossom to something more, but if I attack it, she will feel like I am trying to control her. She is not capable of taking into account my feelings, her mindset is 100% dedicated to her happiness.

 

I am between a rock and a hard place.

 

Can you please clairfy the part about what your living conditions currently are, and what they have been for the duration of your relationship? I think I must've missed something...

 

In any case, yes, definitely a rock and a hard place.

However, if her morals compel her to stay, you at least have a tiny edge in being able to see if there's a way to work through this.

If you are in the same place (geographically, I mean), see if you can convince her to go to couples' therapy with you.

Also, see if there's any way to increase the bonding time that you spend together-- take her on dates, schedule time to have lingering conversations, and so on.

[walkinnahaze]

Odile -

 

Before I left for Iraq, I thought my marriage was rock solid. We were talking about when we were going to have a 3rd child, and where we might go on our next vacaation. I was one of the knuckleheads out there that never realized his wife was so unhappy. I'm realizing now how much my wife keeps to herself, and I wasn't observant enough to pick up any signs.

 

While in Iraq, my wife was forced to deal with her unhappiness, since I wasn't there to blame. She started doing a lot of activities and started working again. She likes to keep busy (probably so she doesn't have to think about us.) Since that time, she has severly neglected our relationship. Almost a year ago she sent me a series of emails where she stated that she loved me, but wasn't "in love" with me (never heard that mentioned on these boards before). She also said she didn't miss me.

 

We knew that when I returned from Iraq we were going to have to move (this last DEC). While I was in Iraq she told me she wasn't going to move until the end of the school year (I have a son in pre-school, and a daughter in the 4th grade.) I begged her to move with me. I told her that I needed my family after being gone for a 15 months, and six more months apart would be too painfull. No dice.

 

So, in JAN of 09 I moved, and now live about 600 miles apart. Supposedly she will move out here in JUN, however, a part of me thinks she won't come. She has created a happy place for herself where she feels like she is thriving. I don't know that she will give it up for me.

[Ms Darcy]

Walkinahaze,

 

We are here for you and are on your side. Thanks for providing more background on the relationship. If you have additional insight on how your relationship was, I would love to hear more. I noticed that you said here:

 

"While in Iraq, my wife was forced to deal with her unhappiness, since I wasn't there to blame. She started doing a lot of activities and started working again. She likes to keep busy (probably so she doesn't have to think about us.) Since that time, she has severly neglected our relationship. Almost a year ago she sent me a series of emails where she stated that she loved me, but wasn't "in love" with me ... She also said she didn't miss me."

 

Observations: It sounds like she checked out of this marriage a long time ago, perhaps before this man even became a factor in your lives. I think it also sounds like, forgive me, you are a little dismissive of her here. I understand your current feelings of frustration, etc, but I can't help but wonder if your wife feels like you dismiss her. I think you being away was a moment of self-discovery for her - and independence. I'm not saying what she's doing is ok, but I am trying to think from her perspective a little bit. The more we do that, the more we can hopefully help you find strategies to work on this marriage.

 

There is still a lot of information missing here and I wonder if you can have a conversation with her where you ask her questions about her feelings - not trying to convince her of anything but simply trying to understand what's going on. When did she stop feeling "in love," why (she may not know), what kinds of things does she want in a long term relationhip, what was it like for her for you to go away, how did her life change, what do her activities bring her (emotionally, spiritually)? Get curious about her and how she ticks. Don't just assume. Not only will that disarm her a little, but it will open up dialogue.

 

You know, at least one thing that's attractive to us about "the new guy" is that they don't know you. It's exciting, it's intriguing, and it's an opportunity to learn about someone. I think you two have a lot of re-learning to do to help you reconnect.

[walkinnahaze]

Ms Darcy,

 

Thanks for the perspective. I think there are multiple reasons on why my wife is not happy. A large part of it was how I treated her. She chose to be a stay at home mom, and she and I never really discussed our expectations of what that meant. I felt that it meant that she should manage the household. She felt that it meant she would focus her energies on the kids, and we would share household duties. I would come home from work and be frustrated that the house was a mess, laundry wasn't done, and many nights, I had to cook dinner. I would resent the fact that my wife expected me to dive right in and start cleaning, etc. I wouldn't offer to help, and instead play with my kids, or relax on the couch. So, in a way, you are correct, I was dismissive of my wife in that I didn't validate her daily efforts. In the evenings, because I didn't pitch in and help, my wife would be working on cleaning up dinner, etc., so we never spent any quality time together. These are the types of behavior that I feel like I've fixed since I've been back (when I am at home). I am much more helpful, and will often do tasks without having to be nagged (or asked). I don't mind cooking dinner, and make it a point to clean up the kitchen. If my wife is still cleaning when I am done, I will go and keep her company if it is a one person job, or pitch in and help if I can.

 

However, there is more to this.

 

My wife can't, very easily, express her feelings or needs. That is why I never realized she was so unhappy. I can recall many times that I told my wife all I ever really wanted to do was to make her happy, and her answer was "you do." One of the things I love about my wife, is what a strong person she is, however, what I am reazling now is that my wife puts up a good front, and never lets anyone inside. She hides her feelings, and I'm not even sure she admits them to herself. She can't pinpoint a time when she fell out of love, because I don't think she realized it until I was gone.

 

I am also learning that my wife won't ask for help, or show weakness. A few years ago, my wife had a health scare. When I offered to rearrange my work schedule to go to Dr.'s appointments with her, she told me that she was ok, and everything was precautionary. One of the biggest mistakes in my life is that I took her for her word that she was ok. I've since found out that she was terrified, and convinced herself that I would never be there if she got sick. When I asked her why she couldn't tell me that she was scared, she told me "why should I have to." A lot of this comes from our upbringings; my family tends to give people their space but always make themselves available (my mom drove herself to her own chemotherapy appointments), while her family will rush to the hospital for simple out patient procedures. I was woefully short in meeting my wifes needs I don't deny that, and wish I could go back in time. However, my wife was woefully short in expressing her needs. And I am still at a loss as to how to get my wife to express her needs to me, and I don't get the feeling that it is anything she wants to work on. ("I don't know that I can change" is what she tells me sometimes.)

 

I've asked her many times to let me know how she is feeling, and nine times out of ten, I get "I'm tired." This goes back to why my wife likes to be busy - she creates a world for herself that keeps her so focused on the moment, that she doesn't have to consider how she is feeling until she is too exhausted to stay awake and contemplate it. I can't have a deep meaningful conversation with her, she just doesnt' share. If I try and dig she will get mad.

 

I agree that we have a lot of re-learning to do, my problem is that I don't think my wife wants to relearn. I asked her the other day if she cared whether or not I loved her, and she couldn't answer the question (which I took to mean 'no'). In a way, I think she has turned to this other man because their conversations are much lighter and don't take any work. I want to explore our relationship and try and fix our marriage, however, that takes answering questions she doesn't want to deal with. It is easier for her to ignore me and get attention from somewhere else.

 

That is why I said it feels like she has walked away from the relationship. She will say she wants to stay married, but she puts zero effort into fixing it.

 

As I go through and read this, I can see how someone may think that I blame my wife for all of marital problems. And really, I don't. I blame myself, and I feel like I have made an honest and good faith effort to change myself to make the marriage better. What I do resent somewhat is the fact that my wife doesn't want to seem to fix our relationship, but expects me to stay married to her. I half-way jokingly point out to people that I have all of the disadvantages of being divorced (living in a cheap one bedroom apartment, never seeing my kids, and having no money), yet none of the advantages (being able to find a partner to share my life with). My wife did a great job in finding some direction for her life (she got a job, got involved in social activities, volunteered, etc.), the only problem is that she didn't leave any room in her life for me.

 

I don't know if that cleared up any of the gaps you saw in my previous post, and I'm not sure how disjointed this post comes accross. Bottom line is that it feels like my wife has stopped working on our relationship, and seems to be putting her energies into one with another man. Even if it is a strictly platonic relationship, I feel jilted because it doesn't even seem like she is trying.

 

If you have any additional perspective, i would love to hear it, because I am clueless to how my wife feels, and another woman might be able to provide me a viewpoint I am desparately seeking. I am trying so hard to hold on, but the grass is looking greener more and more often.

[Ms Darcy]

WalkinaHaze,

 

Thank you for the insight on the relationship. This really helps us understand what's happening in your marriage. Point by point:

 

The early years from her perspective. It sounds like you went into marriage with different expectations. This happened to my sister and her ex-husband. As a stay at home mom, her energy went to the kids and cooking dinner; she expected her husband to help around the house after work. They went to therapy and the therapist had a great line: You both work all day and you both have to work at home. My sister felt like he wasn't living up to his responsibilities whereas he thought she was asking too much. I can't state enough how much years of such a rift silently tears apart the relationship. It's a common theme, so know that you are not alone in this sense.

 

Honestly, it sounds like after years of feeling hurt, she has shut down and walked away emotionally. Once someone has reached that point, there is no amount of convincing that one can do to change the other person's mind.

 

The early years from your perspective. You deserve a lot of credit for wanting to communicate with her. The cruel irony here is that some of the traits that attracted you to her are not conducive to healthy communication in a long-term relationship. She is introverted and has trouble communicating. I would actually suggest that she's emotionally unavailable. But, like attracts like. I think that perhaps you were emotionally unavailable to her too in the early years. Now, the only positive sign (although I know it's a hurtful situation) about her talking to the other guy is that you can see that she does want to share things, talk about her feelings, and connect with someone. There are few people in this world who don't want to connect with others so even though she keeps to herself, you can see that she DOES want to open up to SOMEONE.

 

I am glad that you want to fix the relationship and re-learn about each other. I cannot lie; it won't work without her investment too. The one suggestion I can give you is to go to the site link removed and read everything you can. Looking ahead, I think you are building the tools for a very happy relationship -- whether it's this one or a new one.

 

To give you another perspective, my current bf was in your position. His wife left him 10 years ago and took the kids. It has been a long and painful journey, but he is a better man for it. In the past he's been critical, uncommunicative, emotionally unavailable, and immature. With me, I'd say he has improved 400%. I have not experienced who he used to be and I love him for his desire to keep growing. He's not perfect, nor am I, but we have some amazing communication. Long term, there is hope for you so please remember that.

[Tired Tiger]

I can't really speak on the OP's situation, but to answer the question - yes, there can be appropriate friendships with the opposite sex. At this very moment, I'm house/dog/cat sitting for my oldest and closest friend in the world - a woman (and single, at that). 25 years we've been friends without any romance involved at all. Granted, this is the exception rather than the rule, but it can happen.

[Humble]

blueeyedyou,

 

I dont think you are being realistic about this relationship/friendship you are involved in with someones spouse. The closeness you profess to share with her and your willingness to take the place of her husband shows that you may not have her best interest at heart. Deal with your feelings and do more research on the damages caused to her by having an emotional affair with you. You being "available" for her is not healthy for her or her mariage. Do you really care about her well being, or are you in it for you? Think carefully.

[walkinnahaze]

Ms. Darcy,

 

Thanks for the perspective. It is funny that you mention your current BF in that manner. I keep telling myself if our marriage doesn't work, my wife is going to look at my next serious relationship and ask why I never did that for her. And the sad answer will be because she never gave me a chance once I learned from my mistakes.

 

Hopefully I will be able to hang on for her to come around, but unrequited love is a * * * * * .

 

Will definitely look at marriage builders (although it takes two to tango in repairing a marriage).

 

Thanks again.

[Ms Darcy]

Walkinahaze,

 

Thanks for the reply. Believe me, I'm in your corner. I hear what you are saying. I'm just proferring that in her mind, the early YEARS might have been her giving you a chance. Think of it this way, you won't be able to wait for her to come around forever. We as humans reach a breaking point.

 

I'm not trying to break up your marriage here. I am cautioning you that in waiting for her to come around, you may be putting your happiness in the hands of another person and not taking control of your own life.

 

Best. Keep us posted!

[walkinnahaze]

Here is a question. Who, in the relationship, defines whether or not a spouse is having an emotional affair?

 

My wife swears up and down she is not having an emotional affair, and, for the sake of argument, let's assume she is correct. Let's assume that she is friends with this guy, and just listens to him, but doesn't share any of her emotional toubles. And doesn't initiate any contact with him - just responds when he makes contact. But if I still feel it is an emotional affair is it really? Does my wife still have an obligation to end the relationship - even if it is truly innocent - if I have told her I am jealous of the relationship and feel it is an emotional affair?

 

I guess another way to look at it, is that am I being unreasonable to expect my wife to end the friendship just because I think it is inappropriate? What if I am the paranoid one, and there is nothing there?

[waveseer]

It seems like you don't trust her. If that is the case then that is the real issue. Why don't you trust her? What has she done to make you wonder if you should trust her?

[walkinnahaze]

It seems like you don't trust her. If that is the case then that is the real issue. Why don't you trust her? What has she done to make you wonder if you should trust her?

 

I don't trust my wife on three levels:

 

1. I don't trust her to share her feelings with me. She kept her unhappiness bottled up inside for 14 years, and now it is bubbling up all over the place. When she tells me she is OK, I don't know whether to believe her.

 

2. I don't trust her to be there for me when I need her. She told me she wasn't "in love" with me, and didn't miss me when I was deployed to Iraq. I expect to go back next year, and I don't know if I can trust her support me through another deployment. She abandoned me in the middle of the last one - what if she does it again.

 

3. I don't trust her to be truthful about her friendship with this guy. She already lied to me about who she went out with for a "girls night out." Her male friend was one of the people who went, and she flat out lied. So when she claims everything is innocent, I honestly don't know if I can believe her.