Changing who you are "just" to get the date.

[big greg]

Everyone always gives advice to people who are having trouble getting dates. They will say "try this..." or "say this...". That's great, and it works, but what if say doing something someone suggested isn't something you would ever think of doing or saying if you were by yourself and never got advice? like.. it would totally be out of your normal character under normal circumstances..

 

The more I ponder about it, the more it seems like whenever you try to change the way you approach people that you aren't being true to yourself. I'm big on staying true to myself, and I always have people tell me things I should try whenever I attempt meeting someone new. Most of the things are something that I would never do or say, so it seems fake for me to do all this stuff I never would have otherwise. I mean, you try something new to attract a girl, and you get her attention.. but once you run out of "new" things to try or say to keep them interested all you are left with is the regular you.

 

The only thing I can come up with is that you can be fake when you first meet someone just to get their attention, but once you have them hooked you can shrug off the act and let your true colors shine as soon as you can so the other person doesn't really notice the initial "fake". I wouldn't know, since I've never experienced it first hand, but it's all I can come up with by thinking about it.

[servedcold]

There were points in your life when you couldn't walk, go to the bathroom alone, speak or read, right? How is learning to be an attractive candidate for dating, to appeal to the opposite sex being untrue to yourself if learning to do these other things wasn't?

 

For lots of folks, success with the opposite sex involves changing more towards their natural, sexual selves, and away from guilt-ridden or insecure feelings. So the question becomes, why is what you are now your "real" self? Is it possible that your "real self" is constantly being shaped and discovered?

 

We are the sum of the actions we take, not a list of things we think we -should- be. Change and adaptation are the only things that keep our lives from becoming a living hell of monotony.

 

We change ourselves in material ways each and every day, and every seven years or so, we are composed of completely different stuff than we were prior. It's an illusion bred of visceral survival instincts that there is any real constancy in our lives at all. The constancy of the ego is a simple but powerful survival tool, but isn't the only interpretation of what is real.

[madmarten]

I think that the saying "Just be yourself" is the lamest cliche out there. I think that you shouldn't sell out your core values, but if your behaviors and attitudes are not leading to success, then you may have to change them. Success matters the most, if that is what you truly desire.

[big greg]

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I disagree, I don't think it's about "learning" at all. I think your personality development curve starts to plateau off (different ages for different people) no matter how much of your immediate life changes. You might have to physically change and adapt your life to suit your circumstances, but that still doesn't change your personality. You are always going to have the same personality traits - that's what makes you you. If your basic personality traits are changing, then you haven't reached full maturity yet. Learning to walk and trying something different while approaching girls are totally different because your personal development is different at different stages in your life. Your personality doesn't change over time even though your habits might. "learning" new personality traits from outside sources such as TV or other people will lead to you being confused about your true personality.

 

I'm the same person now as I was when I was 18, although I had different habits. I like the same things, I do the same things, and I have the same basic personality traits. I am an only child and spent the majority of my childhood alone, so I had no outside influences play any part in my personality development. This is why it seems odd to me when someone else says "try this...." when I know that it's something I would never do as defined by my personality.

[servedcold]

Experience continues to shape the fundamentals of your core personality for your entire life. The effects of this perpetual change are not as obviously visible as a milestone like learning to read, for example, but are every bit as dispositive of who you are.

 

Alternatively, when do you think one's personality becomes set for the duration? My personality changed rather cataclysmically, for the better I think, after watching burning people jump out of the WTC buildings up close and personal, just one drastic example of the changes ongoing in our "personalities" from our first breath to our last.

[big greg]

I think what you are referring to is Behavior, not personality. I don't think your personality changes at all.

 

link removed

A part of that article stood out to me when I was doing research on personalities.

People who say, "Tell me what I should do and I will do it" are at the level of behavior. They can run errands, they can obey people, they can eat what is served, but they cannot take care of others. People who say, "Give me this work and I will accomplish it and report back to you," have character at that level. Other people who say, "Let me examine this proposal and if my mind understands and approves, my emotions will be enthused and I can act on my own," have personality.

 

Behavior is the external appearance without being confirmed or supported by the mind and feelings. Character is what is supported by the mind and feelings. It is a behavior which is endorsed and directed by the mind. Personality is on its own. It is self-directed.

[servedcold]

Your behavior IS your personality, what I've been trying to suggest to you.

 

Otherwise, please define personality, and also answer my question about when it supposedly freezes for good.

[hers]

i was listening to Car Talk on NPR today (Boston car experts/brothers, super funny and great) and a guy called in saying he has a date and his car is filthy, absolutely a wreck b/c he doesn't care to clean it. Half of his friends were saying clean it so she doesn't get grossed out, but his other friends were saying don't clean it b/c that's who you are and you shouldnt change for anyone. The guy wanted to know what Click and Clack thought.

 

They decided that he should clean it, let her fall for him (b/c he's presented great things about himself), and then gradually ease into his normal self of messy car-ness.

 

I don't think that's right. At least not the outlook. I think he could clean his car up some and stop whining about cleaning his car; just do it, ya know? Maybe put a little more effort into his life's quality. But at the same time, don't deep clean it and have it spotless and then surprise her when she realizes he's not a deep-cleaned person.

 

So this metaphor/anecdote's purpose is that you can still be yourself while trying new things to put yourself out there and get what you want out of life. Don't change too much b/c then who would be you when you're off being someone else?

 

Hope that made some sense!

[servedcold]

Just read the article, not to seem snotty, but it's twaddle.

[servedcold]

I don't think that's right. At least not the outlook. I think he could clean his car up some and stop whining about cleaning his car; just do it, ya know? Maybe put a little more effort into his life's quality. But at the same time, don't deep clean it and have it spotless and then surprise her when she realizes he's not a deep-cleaned person.

 

Agree that there is a definite line between changing oneself for the better and attempting to fool someone temporarily, which usually doesn't work out in the long run.

[big greg]

Your behavior IS your personality, what I've been trying to suggest to you.

 

Otherwise, please define personality, and also answer my question about when it supposedly freezes for good.

I know what you've been trying to suggest, and I disagree with it. I never said your personality development freezes at a certain age, I just said that the development of it will start to plateau. There is no answer for "when", because it can vary person to person. The article I posted up pretty much says that a person's behavior, character, and personality are not the same thing. It might be "twaddle" to you, but the source is an organization that has been studying the basic laws of human development since 1969.

[dr_styles]

There are two distinct "plans" here.

One is faking it to get a date then going back to yourself, which I think is a bad idea because whether it be shyness or "boring-ness" (which are my two weaknesses; I'm pretty clean though, lol) when you go back you probably won't keep her interested.

The other is you are really trying to change, but then has the issue of "once you run out of "new" things to try or say to keep them interested all you are left with is the regular you.".

 

[This next part is going to be very much like the "Shy guys must change thread" because like I said that's my problem]

 

if say doing something someone suggested isn't something you would ever think of doing or saying if you were by yourself and never got advice? like.. it would totally be out of your normal character under normal circumstances..

 

When it comes to changing yourself, it really depends on what you're trying to improve. Like if you were dumb in school, then ofcourse you'd want to change that part of you, it's something worth improving. If you were overweight or unfit, same thing.

But for me and shyness, it is not that easy, because unlike the above where it might just be laziness or habits, this contradicts some of my morals which I've been raised with; namely staying out of people's business, not interrupting them, etc. (and that fear of coming off creep) I think this is where Greg's point shows. One of the most common pieces of advice is to start conversations and what not, but just with what I've grown up believing/practicing, when put on-the-spot I don't think I could ever go the cold approach.

 

Note: I'm arguing here why I am not changing, because I do want to, but just trying to explain why it really is an allout "fake" just to get that date.

[big greg]

I think the big deal in my head is if you know who you are and don't want to change anything about yourself, especially only so you can pick up a girl. If you want to change yourself and your whole attitude for the better like trying harder in school or working out, that's great, but I find trouble in changing one aspect of yourself solely so you can get a date.

[dr_styles]

I think the big deal in my head is if you know who you are and don't want to change anything about yourself, especially only so you can pick up a girl. If you want to change yourself and your whole attitude for the better like trying harder in school or working out, that's great, but I find trouble in changing one aspect of yourself solely so you can get a date.

 

It's certainly a big deal in my mind at the moment. I don't know about the other guys here but I think it's pretty depressing to obviously see that the person I am is not attractive enough (in any form). That convinces me I have to change, even if it's sad solely to get a date, but no need to go overboard on eNA here I'm not saying I have to change completely, but a shy personality is definitely no small fry either. Thus a mighty battle on my hands which most probably underestimate. hehe I'm sure the similar guys know perfectly well though