What is trust?

[pumpkinmoon]

This seems to be one of the biggest issues in my "relationship". I'm starting to get confused as to what it actually is.

 

He has a hard time with me not being able to trust him and always thinks I am accusing him of cheating when I believe that I never have, maybe I have indirectly I don't know but I have never said "I think you did this with her" or "I think you are cheating".

 

It isn't that I don't trust him not to cheat because I do (I really don't think he would because I have had it done before and he has also been cheated on and knows exactly how it feels) however there have been times when I have questioned it due to some actions of his, maybe they are small and I should take no notice of them, maybe they mean nothing at all and I am reading into it too much but I never accuse him of cheating.

 

I never stop him doing anything or going anywhere and would never try to.

 

I have tried to explain to him that trust isn't just about trusting someone not to cheat. There are many other facets to trust. Because he has broken up with me twice, my trust was broken to a certain extent and that isn't due to cheating. I have told him that it isn't that I don't trust him, but it needs to be rebuilt and earned. I'm finding it hard to explain this to him as he thinks that all trust has to do with is cheating and I don't think that is the case. I also find it hard to explain because it makes sense in my head but I can't seem to put it into words properly. The main reason for posting this is that I'm trying to get help on how I can make him understand what I mean.

 

So I am wondering, what does trust mean to you?

[NJRon]

You need to be able to trust in the security of the relationship. That security has been damaged seriously twice already. You cannot have a trusting relationship if you aren't in a secure relationship.

 

How's that?

[JadedStar]

You know, i find that many people who give these little lectures to their SO's the most about trust and get angry when they feel they are not getting it are also the one's who keep doing things to arouse suspicion. If he didn't want to be exposed to your jealousy then maybe he woiuldn't be telling random female friends things like 'looking edible' or 'me and g/f are off and on'.

 

He isn't innocent. Jealousy in ITSELF is not a bad thing. It is normal if there are actions that would cause any reasonable person to feel it. It is uwarranted jealousy that is unhealthy, and sadly some people who do a lot of things to cause warranted jealousy lilke to discuss the ill effects of "UNwarranted jealousy" and pretend they are one and the same.

[Breaking Away]

I'm in a similar situation ... my SO has those same kinds of questions...and they cause me to pull away from him- which then fuels his worries.

 

Trust is trusting that you can rely on that person- you can't rely on someone who doesn't believe in you- you can't rely on someone when they questions every move you make or every word you say.

 

I have also questioned him .. and this causes him to feel angry and untrusting of me.

 

as a result... my SO and i have a lot of repair work that we can't seem to get a handle on-

 

Ironically- neither one of us is cheating- but the constant accusations back and forth are causing us not to trust one another because we can't rely on eachother to fully be there for each other.

 

whatever you can do- stop questioning him- and do it fast... you can't live in the past - you can't spend your time wondering when the shoe is going to fall- and you can never "predict" what is going to happen - let go and trust him.

 

i speak from experience.. my relationship is falling apart because of this exact situation.

[Aurian]

You need to be able to trust in the security of the relationship. That security has been damaged seriously twice already. You cannot have a trusting relationship if you aren't in a secure relationship.

 

How's that?

 

I like this one.

 

I not only need to trust in my partner being faithful to me, but I need to trust that he will be faithful to the relationship in other ways. I need to trust that he is as invested as I am. I need to trust that we will work out problems in a manner that leave us both satisfied. I need to trust that he will be there for me when I need him, and vice versa.

[Aurian]

You need to be able to trust in the security of the relationship. That security has been damaged seriously twice already. You cannot have a trusting relationship if you aren't in a secure relationship.

 

How's that?

 

I like this one.

 

I not only need to trust in my partner being faithful to me, but I need to trust that he will be faithful to the relationship in other ways. I need to trust that he is as invested as I am. I need to trust that we will work out problems in a manner that leave us both satisfied. I need to trust that he will be there for me when I need him, and vice versa.

[JadedStar]

To me, there is a distinguishing difference in someone who was actually causing me mistrust or the off situation where i was paranoid for no reason. If the latter happened often, anyone would grow tired of it and their love eventually is going to be suffocated for that person. If the former is the issue, there isn't much love or respect to begin with hence the reason I felt so suspecting all the time because there WERE some serious signs of impropriety. I have been involved in both scenarios. When i was younger in my first marriage i was paranoid at times for no reason when i was in my 20s. Something seemed like it was fishy and my immaturity at the time led me to question and probe. I realized fast that this was very wrong and worked to overcome it. Then i was with someone who DiD do many things to cause me mistrust and he was more angry and vicious about the questions then the person who i was just being paranoid with. Those situations in my life showed me a big difference in how people react. It was funny how the one who really wasn't very trustworthy would fly off the handle at any slight questioning of behaviors that WERE very fishy, yet the one where i was being over the top tried so hard to convince me of how i was wrong and would go to many lengths to prove that.

 

I have since felt very bad for the paranoia with person A because i know now it was not warranted at that time. Person B, i feel no remorse because i learned early on that my gut WAS right and i moved on.

I would always be leary of the person who gets angry at any type of questioning early on (before there has been any length of time for it to become habitual enough to make someone that angry). I have found that people who lash out in anger quickly over a question usually are on the defense for very good reason.

[maritalbliss]

You know, i find that many people who give these little lectures to their SO's the most about trust and get angry when they feel they are not getting it are also the one's who keep doing things to arouse suspicion. If he didn't want to be exposed to your jealousy then maybe he woiuldn't be telling random female friends things like 'looking edible' or 'me and g/f are off and on'.

 

He isn't innocent. Jealousy in ITSELF is not a bad thing. It is normal if there are actions that would cause any reasonable person to feel it. It is uwarranted jealousy that is unhealthy, and sadly some people who do a lot of things to cause warranted jealousy lilke to discuss the ill effects of "UNwarranted jealousy" and pretend they are one and the same.

 

ha! I was gonna post but this says everything I was gonna say.... LOL

[BeStrongBeHappy]

Trust is something that must be earned.

 

It is foolhardy to totally trust someone you don't know well, or someone who has repeatedly broken your trust. You don't just fully grant blind trust, you grant as much trust as the person warrants or has earned through your experiences with them.

 

I think the flip side of that is someone who flies into a frenzy of distrust and jealousy when there is no evidence that there is reason for suspicion, i.e., someone who can't stand to have any girl talking her boyfriend without freaking out. That is a person who is refusing to grant trust, even when it is warranted if the boyfriend has shown no signs of cheating.

 

I agree with JS that people who accuse you of not trusting them when they are doing things that are suspicious are just handing you a big red herring. They are taking the focus off their own bad behavior, and trying to guilt you into not believing your own eyes or ears.

 

Let's take the example of your boyfriend telling this other girl that he has dated in the past that she looks 'edible' and that he is on and off with you.

 

Frankly, that should set off some bells for you. Why is he making sexual references with another woman, and why is he telling someone you're not firmly together when you assume you are?

 

If you confront him, he could have several reactions.

 

If he had said, something like, sorry, that was overly flirtatious of me, i'm sorry, and i won't do that again you might assume that he is telling the truth or that he is covering it up.

 

If he turns it on you and says you don't trust him, that is really irrelevant, because he is either telling the truth to her (that he thinks she's hot and that he is not really committed to you all that much and might be available), or else he is lying to her (and he is really committed to you and on with you even though he told her he was on and off). So he is lying to someone, either you or her.

 

And what possible motivation could he have for telling her you two were 'on and off' if you are actively together now?

 

It either means he's lying to someone (you or her and hence is not trustworthy) or else you have a mistaken idea of your relationship and you two aren't really all that much back together as you think you are and are not really fully on in his mind though you are in yours.

 

So i think you are right not to trust him because he is still projecting himself as possibly available to other women even though he pretends to you that he is committed to you, or else your own perception about how committed to you he really is is wrong (i.e, you two are just casually dating and he is open to other women, you just aren't seeing and accepting that).

 

I personally think he's probably on the prowl, and not as committed to you as you hope he is. Don't disengage your sense of reason and let him throw a smokescreen over questionable or cheating behavior just because you want to be firmly together with him. Frankly, if i heard my boyfriend was telling other women they were edible and that we were 'on and off' when we were actively dating, i would not trust him at all and would take that as a strong sign he is keeping his options open to either cheat or dump me eventually for someone he likes better if he finds her.

 

He needs to totally knock off that kind of flirting, and acknowledge that the two of you are in a firm and committed relationship to everyone, including telling other women he is committed to you, if he wants you to trust him.

[Circe]

You know, it's quite ok not to trust people who behave in a way that demonstrates a lack of respect for you or a lack of care for your feelings.

 

You don't have to trust him. He needs to earn your trust and then keep it. As you do for him. If either of you have a problem with earning and then keeping the other's trust.. then that person should find a more compatible relationship for themselves or its going to lead to a lot of pain.

 

If he feels like he's doing nothing wrong and yet you don't trust him - you need to communicate more on the precise actions that are making you worry. If he doesnt recognise those actions as unfair on you - then again - you're better off with someone who is more compatible with you than he is on the issue of what the proper boundaries of your relationship are (ie what conduct is ok and what isnt).

 

But what I really wanted to say is - you don't have to trust him. It doesnt really sound like you do, either. And that's ok. Listen to that and think about his actions which are causing those feelings.

[pumpkinmoon]

Thank you for all of the replies, they have been very insightful.

 

I think NJRon said what I was trying to express. That it isn't just about the cheating. Because he has just ended it in the past, I don't feel secure that it won't happen again. I think maybe I push him away to a point, because I am scared that if I get close again then the same thing will happen. But in the same way, the more I push him away, the more likely he will be to end it again. I know that if it ends again there will be no going back. I will never be willing to take him back a third time.

 

Really confused as to what to think. I don't think he is twisting it deliberately. I think he does genuinely believe that I always think he is going to cheat but I don't know how to stop him from thinking this. Maybe I do make it seem that way to him, I don't know but I certainly don't mean to.

[stella74]

I would always be leary of the person who gets angry at any type of questioning early on (before there has been any length of time for it to become habitual enough to make someone that angry). I have found that people who lash out in anger quickly over a question usually are on the defense for very good reason.

 

I completely agree with you JS. I've learned that one aspect of trusting someone is feeling safe asking questions about behavior. If I ask a question and get an angry response out of proportion to my question, I'm immediately on guard. Anger can be used to deflect blame or to sabotage a relationship if not dealt with constructively. Lashing out in anger is never okay and is usually a sign of someone who is hiding something, unable to take responsibility for actions, potentially emotionally abusive and/or has poor communication skills.

 

As BeStrong says, trust has to be earned.

 

But there's also appropriate ways to question someone and ways that come off as if you're attacking the other person out of your own mistrust issues. I've learned the best way to establish trust is to ask someone to clarify behavior rather than jumping to conclusions or putting the person on the defensive. It's hard.

[pumpkinmoon]

This may be the problem I have. When I try to question him or find something out by asking he always says I am attacking him and that's why he says he gets so defensive. I don't think I do it in an attacking manner and I certainly don't mean to but maybe I am doing it without realising?

 

How do you question someone in the best way?

[stella74]

Ah, good question. Let's start off with him saying you're attacking him. Before the next argument you have, ideally at some time when you're both feeling relaxed and in a good mood with each other, ask him something like this:

"Could you please clarify what you mean when you say you feel attacked?"

 

Notice that you are putting the responsibility for his feelings and behavior back on him. It's not necessarily that you're attacking him. It's that he feels attacked.

 

If he gets angry and defensive and tries to put the blame on you, you can continue to ask questions. "I'd really like to clarify what you mean so that I don't attack you inadvertently." Encourage him to tell you. You can ask, "Is it the tone of voice I use? Is it that I raise my voice when I'm upset? Etc. Then it's up to you to say, "Okay, I hear you. I'll try to communicate in a way that feels safer for you." You then have to take the responsibility to manage your feelings of mistrust and work on communicating in a way that helps to resolve conflict. It's something you both need to work on.

 

Then say, "Could you please let me know calmly the next time when you're feeling attacked, so we can take a time out?" Only communicate when you are not overcome with emotion. That often will cloud the issues. Take a break and come back to the discussion when you're both calmer and more clear-headed.

 

Refuse to communicate if he is not willing to communicate in a way that creates trust. You can say, "I want us to have good communication, and in order for that to happen I need to feel free to express myself and you need to be able to hear it without feeling attacked. I won't be able to communicate with you unless we can set ground rules for working through conflict. Could you please work on this with me?" Or something like that. If he's not willing to go along with you and keeps blaming you, that's a red flag.

 

I hope that makes sense.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

If you are just calmly asking a question and someone goes ballastic, my experience is you need to take notice.

 

When my ex-husband was cheating, i wasn't even suspecting him of cheating, and just asked him an innocent question and he just attacked me verbally. I was so stunned because the level of emotion absolutely did not match the circumstances and i wasn't accusing him of anything.

 

It really made me wonder though becuase his response was inappropriate and paranoid, so i later calmly asked some other questions and got the same response.

 

He was cheating, and he went on the attack verbally to startle me and stop me from questioning him further. So it can be a big red flag if you ask a relatively logical or rational question that is not blaming at all, and he counterattacks.

 

If you approach him emotionally or aggressively first and he is defensive, that is understandable, but if you are approaching calmly and rationally and he attacks, then beware that there might be lying going on.