"She/he is not worth you."

[BusyNAbroad]

This is yet another common phrase I have heard since I was a kid and it is usually used to console people who [wonder why they] have been either socially or romantically rejected.

 

What made me start thinking critically about it is the fact that, as far as I remember from my teenage years, every time someone whom I asked advice from told it to me, the adviser/consoler himself usually kept happily interacting with the person supposedly "not worth me".

I have seen this happen among other people as well, and one of the most ironic situations is when a guy A gives advice to his friend B to get over with a girl who rejected him, but then A started dating her. Isn't there a bit of hypocrisy there?

 

So let me ask you: whenever you tell someone that a person who rejected them is "not worth them", what is the true or hidden meaning of it? Is it...

a) an affirmation about the value as a person of the rejecter;

b) an affirmation about the value of the one who was rejected;

c) just a quick escape pill from bad moods?

 

In case of a), would you be consistent with what you say and also personally maintain the same attitude towards the rejecter that you advised the rejected person to keep, i.e. would you openly criticize the rejecter, and also personally exclude the possibility of creating a relationship with her/him?

 

What I am trying to point out at is that there are so many people coming on this forum talking about being rejected and dumped, and most advisers suggest (in addition to moving on) that whatever happened, the rejecter is not worth being interacted with. But, in fact, what stance would you have towards the rejecters of all these people if you met the rejecters in person?

[sosilver]

I understand what you mean when you bring up the hypocrisy point, but it depends on the person. I consider my self a loyal person/friend. I would not do what person A did. Obviously they did that for their own interests.

 

IMO when I tell a person that she/he is not worth you, I mean it in the sense, they arent worth all the tears and sadness you are going through for them. Sometimes the rejected dont realize all that they can be because they lose sight of them selves. And this is a way of helping them realize all the worthwhile qualities they have.

 

So for me I guess its both B and C.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

When someone treats their romantic partner badly and then dumps them...or treats them badly during the dumping stage then saying "she/he is not worth you" means that they do not deserve love the dumpee has for them. However, that does not mean the person who is behaving badly in this instance deserves to be shunned by humanity in general. A person can treat their partner disgracefully yet still have very good qualities that make them likeable to others. Case in point, Bill Clinton...put his wife through a lot of grief with his many dalliances...but he is very bright and personable and liked by many for the other facets of his life and personality.

[BusyNAbroad]

So such a phrase has no critical implications about the rejecter?

[Crazyaboutdogs]

So such a phrase has no critical implications about the rejecter?

 

Yes, it has critical implications in how the rejector is treating the rejectee. It simply about the "case" at hand. You can't make a global criticism about a person based on how they are behaving in one particular scenario. People can be a jerk in one situation and totally decent and likeable in a different situation.

[Casey13]

To give you a simple answer picking up the basics on what you wrote if guy A gives advice to guy B that she is just "not worth you" and then guy A proceeds to date the girl in question there is no hypocrisy there what so ever. Guy A merely gave you an honest truth that shes not worth "you". One man's garbage is another man's treasure also just because someone is not good for "you" and not worth "your" efforts doesn't mean they are not good for anyone else, in this case the advice giver. If I was an employee at a fast food restaurant flipping burgers, not your best looking guy, who just wanted to stay home and watch movies and not go out much and a friend of mine who is a high-roller with cash, great looking who likes to travel and live life on the go came to me and complained about his S/O that she is under educated for him, not so wild at heart and too grounded I would absolutely tell him she is "not worth your efforts or you" but learning about her through his explanation I may fight mighty in her what he finds a flaw and decide that she may be good for me. You wouldnt give advice to a "friend" to move on from someone just for the purpose of getting with that person yourself and if you did you are no friend at all. I would imagine this mostly happens in highschool not among true friends or mature and genuine individuals.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

It usually is said when one person is investing a lot of time, effort, and heart into another person, and the other person is just not behaving in a way that is worth the investment.

 

It's the same principle as not investing $100 when the return on investment is only $10. That investment just isn't worth it.

 

They're basically saying that your emotional investment in the other person is not worth what you're getting out of it. So the other person is not worth your time or effort for that reason.

[ellandroader]

It usually is said when one person is investing a lot of time, effort, and heart into another person, and the other person is just not behaving in a way that is worth the investment.

 

It's the same principle as not investing $100 when the return on investment is only $10. That investment just isn't worth it.

 

They're basically saying that your emotional investment in the other person is not worth what you're getting out of it. So the other person is not worth your time or effort for that reason.

 

Very true indeed. I don't think it applies universally to a dumper or dumpee, every situation is different and the causes for a relationship not working alter case to case too. I have been dumped after giving, and also been the dumper after giving too. I dare say that in my younger years, I said some things to one girl which made her rightly shun me. I suppose every situation is different.

[BusyNAbroad]

Oh, by the way, another variation is "She/he doesn't deserve you!"

 

...

 

The problem is that whenever it has been told to me I perceived it as a big lie since the way it came accross to me did sound like an overall judgement of the rejecter, which I couldn't agree with. In many cases of my own personal history (I'm not just talking about recent events but throughout my whole life) I knew very well that the rejecter is a good person, has wonderful qualities, some of which I admire and would like to learn myself.

 

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to say something like,

"You blew it, try better next time."

or, more honestly,

"He/she is a wonderful person, indeed, but you can't have everything in life."

 

I completely agree with Crazyaboutdogs on the fact that one romantic behavior does not determine the rest of this persons' overall personality and her romantic behavior with other people (as pointed out also by Casey13).

 

Whenever I am told "she is not worth you", I feel like getting two dissonant information, and usually I can infer that it is told to me only as a pill/encouragement to move on. I get quite angry when I feel so, especially because I usually fall in love or like a person for the global person he/she is, not for "the way he/she treats me" or how she behaves romantically.

 

What I am saying is that I prefer my love being unnrequited (which is, to me, more honest) rather than deceiving myself (just for the sake of moving on) into thinking that the person who rejected/dumped me is less of a human being, or less than I can objectively evaluate.

 

This "she is not worth you"/"she doesn't deserve you"-attitude encourages, in my opinion, the extreme opposite of what people experience during infatuation: creating positive illusions about the person. Now, they are told to create negative illusions about the person.

 

But my common sense says that these are mere illusions to keep our ego unharmed. Because if they were not illusions, and if a person is really not worth (as a person) what would be wrong about doing anything unhuman to that person?

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Difference between me and those who adopt a "capitalism of love"-mentality is that I "invest" due to a higher cause, or because I want to make a statement, because I stick to my feelings regardless of what I get back.

 

Non profit organizations rarely care about ROI as long as they pursue their objective. Not always do they reach it... but they don't just switch because they can get easier cash elsewhere.

 

You have a point. However, STICKING to feelings is different from ACTING on feelings. Feelings for someone don't magically disappear just because they are not treating you right or are giving very little into the relationship. However, the brain can defy the feelings by stopping the actions. In other words, a person can stop chasing and doing things for the one they have feelings for if that person is not treating them right and not showing that the feelings are reciprocated. Actions can over-ride feelings.

[BusyNAbroad]

I'm not sure you understood what I was saying...?

 

What I mean is that just because a person rejects me doesn't mean she is no more a good person and I can't admire her anymore... and try improving myself based on that, instead of thinking that she is bad and thus I have to look at other girls, have sex with lots of chicks to get over etc.

 

What I am saying is I would like to "re-frame" the whole relationship between me and her, in some way try to improve it, instead of hunting other girls just for the sake of being in a relationship and/or having sex...

[BeStrongBeHappy]

But if she rejects you, she doesn't want to be in a relationship with you, and probably doesn't care if you go hunting for other girls and might even encourage it since she doesn't want you thinking about her.

 

If she's willing to talk to you and tell you what went wrong and you want to try to change that that is fine, but if she's not interested in still being in contact with you, you have to assume she is not interested in re-framing anything or being friends enough with you to even talk to you about what went wrong.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I'm not sure you understood what I was saying...?

 

What I mean is that just because a person rejects me doesn't mean she is no more a good person and I can't admire her anymore... and try improving myself based on that, instead of thinking that she is bad and thus I have to look at other girls, have sex with lots of chicks to get over etc.

 

What I am saying is I would like to "re-frame" the whole relationship between me and her, in some way try to improve it, instead of hunting other girls just for the sake of being in a relationship and/or having sex...

 

I am not saying you have to think she is bad. However it takes two to re-frame a relationship..you may want to but if she doesn't then it isn't going to happen. As for looking for other girls to have sex with in order to get over her..well, not a good idea...it never really works when people rebound to someone else. Heal properly first, make whatever changes you feel you need to make in yourself..and then once you feel complete and whole then go out and look for someone else.

[BusyNAbroad]

The logic is that if she is in fact a good person (globally! not just in individual relations), she will necessarily realize (one day) the fact that I, as another human being, am capable of growing and improving myself (and I will), and thus will give me a chance to some form of relationship (whether love or good friends) - instead of ostracising me and/or being indifferent to whatever I do.

 

Conversely, if she is a "bad" person, she will react to me only if I do something bad to her. If she is globally a good person, she will be totally indifferent if I use the public humiliation strategy.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

The logic is that if she is in fact a good person (globally! not just in individual relations), she will necessarily realize (one day) the fact that I, as another human being, am capable of growing and improving myself (and I will), and thus will give me a chance to some form of relationship (whether love or good friends) - instead of ostracising me and/or being indifferent to whatever I do.

 

Conversely, if she is a "bad" person, she will react to me only if I do something bad to her. If she is globally a good person, she will be totally indifferent if I use the public humiliation strategy.

 

 

Major generalizations here. She can be a good person and so fed up with you that she doesn't want to have anything more to do with you. The fact that you would even consider public humiliation shows that YOU are the bad person, not her! When someone does something bad to someone else and they react angrily, that doesn't make them a bad person..that makes them a person who doesn't accept being treated like crap.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

You are analyzing the semantics of 'good person' vs 'bad person' vs 'worthiness' of the person, when a semantic analysis of words bears no relationship to the reality of situation.

 

Words are just labels we attach to things. They may be the right label or the wrong label, and in themselves have NO meaning in relation to the reality of the situation.

 

By that i mean, you can do this big analysis of what the words mean and why people say them in relation to you or her as you're trying to do in this thread, but they are irrelevant to what is happening or might happen with the real live girl.

 

You need to look at how she is behaving and what happened and then make decisions based on that and not semantics. The reality of the situation is that she rejected you, she is not your girlfriend, she is not responding to you, she is dating other guys etc.

 

So whether she is 'good' or 'bad' bears absolutely no relation to what is going on now with the reality of the situation. You are grasping at straws and looking for reasons/ways to prove to yourself and the world that you might end up with her after all, when it is all just a mental exercise in semantics that bears no relation to what is going on between you and her.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

>>Conversely, if she is a "bad" person, she will react to me only if I do something bad to her. If she is globally a good person, she will be totally indifferent if I use the public humiliation strategy.

 

People are extremely complex. They are not just 'good' or 'bad' and nobody's behavior is universally set in stone based on external manipulations by other people.

 

So if you try to publicly humiliate her, she could react in a million different ways unrelated to whether she is 'good' or 'bad'. A 'good' person may ignore it totally, and so may a bad person. Both may conclude you are mentally ill to be stalking them. Both might go to the police and file a restraining order.

 

And good vs. bad is a value judgment that you attach to her, which may or may not be true based on your own character and what you personally classify as good vs bad. There is no set standard either on what is good vs. bad. There are more set standards at the extremes of the goodness/badness spectrum (i.e., murder makes someone a bad person), yet if someone accidentally kills someone, then they may be the best person in the world and the accident doesn't turn them into a bad person, it was an accident.

 

For your own sake, try to focus on the reality of the situation, that she isn't interested in dating you and is not in contact with you and doesn't want to be. You could analyze semantics and probabilities and come up with schemes to try to manipulate her til you're blue in the face, but she is a separate individual who will do what she wants and is not a puppet.

 

You are grasping at straws here and need to accept that the way to heal is to let go of people who want nothing to do with you. You can't control them or the outcome, as they have free will and the right to choose to be with you or not, and whether they choose you or not doesn't make them a good or a bad person. It has no relation to worth or worthiness, it is a personal choice on their part, and you can't/shouldn't stalk or harass them if they choose to reject you or choose someone else.

 

Sometimes it's just doesn't work out, and is better to focus on finding someone who does want you rather than harassing and grasping at someone who doesn't.

[BusyNAbroad]

She can be a good person and so fed up with you that she doesn't want to have anything more to do with you.

In the short term, I can understand. But for weeks? Months? How can any person within any possible definition of "good" (and I am very open-minded about this, as you may infer from my discussion about personal flexibility) not want anything to do for so much time, just because I didn't know "what I want to eat"?

 

The fact that you would even consider public humiliation shows that YOU are the bad person, not her!

See the other topic in which I explain why I am not sure whether public humiliation per se is bad.

 

When someone does something bad to someone else and they react angrily, that doesn't make them a bad person..that makes them a person who doesn't accept being treated like crap.

...which is also more or less how I am reacting.

Part of my plan is to get her to react angrily. I want her to get angry and leash out at me, and in the process of doing so, probably reveal to me how come she treated me like crap. I really want to understand whether it's because I didn't know what I wanted to eat...

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Okay, I am now lost on the "what I wanted to eat" part??

[BusyNAbroad]

By that i mean, you can do this big analysis of what the words mean and why people say them in relation to you or her as you're trying to do in this thread, but they are irrelevant to what is happening or might happen with the real live girl.

 

Our entire mentality is based on words. The meaning of one word and the way we understand a sentence can change a whole chain of actions. If I knew from the beginning that "she is not worth" wasn't supposed to mean "she is a bad person who deserves all bad things of the world" I would have probably skipped a lot of my bad feelings in the first days after our last conversation, I wouldn't have waited 3 months without doing anything - I would have told her, at least within 1 week, something like, "OK, I understand your feelings, your situation, at least I'd like to be your friend, if you're OK with it."

Instead, after our last conversation ( ) I didn't tell her anything. I simply didn't know what to do, because half of my friends told me that she wasn't serious, that she was simply having a bad time, half of my friends said that she "isn't worth it", on this forum, too, and I was unsure whether that was an objective statement about HER as a person.

Now that I think of it, maybe the fact that I didn't even talk to her after our "last conversation" made her decide not to answer my Christmas/New Year's greetings, and who knows what else... In theory, I'm the one who started the "No Contact".

 

The reality of the situation is that she rejected you, she is not your girlfriend, she is not responding to you, she is dating other guys etc.

The reality includes that she traveled quite a distance to visit me, made out with me for hours, had some form of sexual interaction with me, has sent me tons of romantic messages, had made entire plans with me about christmas and easter holidays, we had more than 4 years of very deep conversations.

There was something, some factor (or a mix of factors) or events, that happened between that and the conversation in which she rejected me.

I don't know what they were, and my mind won't be at peace until I understand what they were.

 

And my fear is that they could have been caused by very trivial and superficial variables such as the fact that I was very tired and stressed during the days she came to visit me, and have a kind of invisible disability. They may have given her a wrong impression of me, and consequently changed her whole perspective about me.

 

But whatever it was, the change was RADICAL. I repeat, my mind won't be at peace until I know what exactly caused that radical change.

[BusyNAbroad]

Okay, I am now lost on the "what I wanted to eat" part??

 

The official reason she told me for stopping interacting with me/dumping me/rejecting me/whatever.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Okay, that was a silly reason to dump someone. I think you are wasting too much effort and energy trying to figure this out. If you really want her back why not just send her a message, tell her that you would like to try again, discuss things and work it out. If she doesn't respond then take that as closure for you. I went through the exchange the two of you had and it confuses me. Neither of you were communicating properly and clearly so it is quite possible there has been one gigantic misunderstanding which caused the split. Instead of being stalky, hostile and vindictive to get at the "answers", why not just be direct with her..contact her tell her how you feel and how you would like to work things out. Then put it to rest if she doesn't want to deal with it.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

I agree with CAD. You are spending all this mental effort when what needs to happen is you need to pick up the phone and start talking to her to see what she wants.

 

It's also a given that many long distance or online relationships fall apart after the two people meet and just don't click or feel comfortable together. If you meet someone online, you need to make the relationship 'real' by seeing each other and talking on the phone rather than just IMing and emailing.

 

And you never know what a person is doing when you're long distance from them. Did she agree to a committed relationship with you where she talked to no one else, dated no one else? If you didn't have a commitment, then she was free to do what she wanted with anybody anytime, including even IMing you at the same time she is IMing someone else.

 

People's feelings can also change radically and very quickly if they decide you are not right for them, or they meet someone else they like better and want to pursue. They make a decision to move to someone else, and they do.

 

Also, how real is the possibility you'll ever be living in the same town together and be able to have a real relationship rather than just an online relationship.

 

I think you are wasting a lot of time and effort mentally on this, and you need to quit spying on her and instead just talk to her. If she won't agree to talk to you about this and doesn't want a relationship with you, then you just need to accept that and move on.

 

I read your other post about your last conversation with her, and it sounds like she is trying to say that she just doesn't think you two fit well together. You were talking right past each other and not understanding one another (a bad sign), and also, towards the end you started talking about her posting on Facebook and IMing at the same time, questioning her.

 

Now if she was posting on someone else's Facebook and feels like you are spying on her while she's doing that, that might weird her out enough to never talk to you again. Your tone when talking about that and questioning her was condemning, and she dropped off after that... she may sense you are obsessing about her and not want that, so your best bet is to just stop that and try to talk with her.

 

But if she says she's not interested in a relationship with you, then you need to accept that and move on. You can't make her love you and want to be with you, and trying to embarrass or shame her publicly will certainly not win any points with her.

[BusyNAbroad]

what needs to happen is you need to pick up the phone and start talking to her to see what she wants.

All of a sudden, after 3 months of no contact, no explanations, no continuity?

 

It's also a given that many long distance or online relationships fall apart after the two people meet and just don't click or feel comfortable together. If you meet someone online, you need to make the relationship 'real' by seeing each other and talking on the phone rather than just IMing and emailing.

Let me clarify: we knew each other in real life more than four years previous to this online contact. At that time she literally hung onto me like a fan to her celebrity.

This "just don't click" doesn't convince me at all. What happened that made things evolve from one stage to another so radically?

What happened in between, backstage?

 

I read your other post about your last conversation with her, and it sounds like she is trying to say that she just doesn't think you two fit well together.

Possible, but I need details... without details, they are just superficial explanations.

 

Your tone when talking about that and questioning her was condemning, and she dropped off after that... she may sense you are obsessing about her and not want that, so your best bet is to just stop that and try to talk with her.

This may be true as well, indeed. I lost control and almost revealed that I knew everything in a very unsensible way. Luckily I was so sad that I thought it was better to go sleep...

Still... I would like to understand the content of what she said.

I can figure out how come I talked past her... my stress in that period of time, lots of exams at university, many projects, my disability, etc.

But what were hers?

[o_hopeless_o]

It usually is said when one person is investing a lot of time, effort, and heart into another person, and the other person is just not behaving in a way that is worth the investment.

 

It's the same principle as not investing $100 when the return on investment is only $10. That investment just isn't worth it.

 

They're basically saying that your emotional investment in the other person is not worth what you're getting out of it. So the other person is not worth your time or effort for that reason.

 

agreed.

and of course thats not to say the other person is horrible. of course everyone has there good qualities.