kimby777 Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 My 14 year old daughter just started grade 9, it is a whole new world (the change from middle school to high school). She also has some extra challenges to deal with on top of the regular teenage stuff. She has ADHD (Attention Deficit Disorder) and ODD (Oppositional Defiance Disorder). Oh my lord where do I start? She is a sweet girl with a huge heart. When it comes to the big issues she is a responsible young lady. However, I am feeling sorrow at this time and I am afraid for her future. I feel I have done the best I know how to provide for her, guide her, council her, teach her etc… I don’t want her to have to learn everything the hard way, as I did. My husband and I talk to her over and over, during the conversations she says “I know” and “yes”. We think we have made our points, until there is another situation. We have tried (I think) everything. What can I do or say to get through to her? She sees that I enjoy spending time with my son who is 12 yrs old and when she wants to spend time with me I am not interested, I don’t talk to her, I am critical, she can’t do anything right, she does poorly in school, I want her to be just like her brother, the list is endless! But what she doesn’t see is he is a different kid, when I give him a direction he simply does it, there is no aggression from him, he doesn’t disrespect me what I say goes, and this is why I enjoy spending time with him, I don’t favor him!, I don’t want to spend time with her because she annoys me all day she will be rude, not follow any direction I give unless I yell it, and then expects me to cuddle up with her and spend some quality time together. I am sorry but no one accepts this behavior and is willing to then do that. I try to talk and have conversations with her by asking questions so I know what is going on with her and I start a conversation by asking a question for example “How was your day?” the person then talks about their day and boom your having a conversation. No she takes me asking questions as an attack and looks at me like I’m stupid, and occasionally will say “that is a stupid question” she gets rude and then I stop trying. I wait now until she comes to me. I am not being critical I want the best for her, I love her, and I am trying to help her. She does plenty of things right, she just learns differently due to her conditions. She does do poorly in school, I have tried tutoring her, getting a teenage tutor, speaking to teachers on her behalf, telling her to just do the best she can that is all we ask. I want what everyone wants the best for both my kids, I want them to be happy and successful, they will get there in their own ways and to very different destinations. I don’t want her to be like him I want her to be the best HER she can be. Yet everything I say she takes the wrong way, twists it around and when I ask her to repeat it back to me it is completely different to what I actually said. She has an attitude I can’t take any more. I am at my wits end with her. The way I was feeling last night was, to say screw it, if you know best fine! You will have a very hard life girl. Good luck! I am done talking cause it falls on deaf ears any way. Yet on the other hand she had very high expectations of my husband and I. I want these clothes, these shoes, I need my hair done etc… her hand is always out for money in one way or the other, and as soon as she takes it out of my hand she slapping me with the other. I am feeling deeply sad by this all I have raised her better than this, I thought. I have given her my all and I am getting nothing in return but wanting more from me. My husband and I deal with all the monetary requests, needs being medical/dental/chiropractor/orthodontist, the best clothes, shoes, food, birthday parties, lunch money (the list is endless) and we get treated like garbage. Now the Dad is back in her life (who does nothing by way of any of the above items) but when he speaks to her she will listen to him the first time. What can I do? I am officially at a loss!
metrogirl Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Well is she is behaving in a manner that is not appropriate, buying her all the latest clothes and shoes and gadgets isn't going to help matters. You are only condoning her bad behavior. You have to take away, not give. Is she in counseling at all? In her defense, I can see why she would feel the way she feels like you are favoring her brother but I think this can change it you both worked on it. She feels neglected and I think if you make little efforts to incorporate her into the mix a little more, it might help to ease her anger towards you.... I know it's not easy, I raised a rebellious 14 year old once......She nearly drove me to insanity but we have a much better relationship now. It didn't happen overnight and it took a lot of work on both parts.
CatsMeeoow Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 So take a step back.... Sure there are lots of things she is doing that annoy you and are just rude behavior.... BUT - I'm sure there is something... even minutely small that is good... you said she has a huge heart... Well provide positive reinforcement.... tell you what you did LIKE... even if its small. Rather than hearing no's and can'ts all the time provide statements... "Like you know I really was proud of you for making sure you younger brother was okay after he fell in the driveway." That is a simple thing and one that is true... rather than telling her how disappointed in this or that... guide her behavior. She wants your attention... she just told you that. If you praise a simple thing she did right she's going to want to try harder to get more of that. Another way to phrase it is... "Since you did such a great job of making sure that the dishes were done and put away after dinner why don't you and I sit down and play a game of "X" together". You've praised and rewarded her with what she wants. Take it a step further and suggest that - 1) identify one prob you'd like to correct... for example she speaks loudly and rudely during dinner.... So tell your daughter that if she can go 5 nights this week without speaking rudely or loudly during dinner that on Saturday the two of you could go to lunch together. This puts her in total control of whether she gets her special time with you. So I don't know your exact issues or what type of reward will work best but you get my drift. NOW - I'm not one who reads a lot of books nor recommends them but I honestly have to say that you will benefit from reading Sal Severe's book - one is "How To Behave So Your Child Will To" His books are a fun read... not text book like and filled with real life examples. And he has a great flare for writing... you could probably sit down and read the entire book (and be laughing and shaking your head) in a few days. Trust me on this - go get the book. Oh by the way my son is austistic so I know the frustrations you have to deal with daily... I remember the days where I was so exhausted and truth be told overwhelmed. Having a toddler is rough enough but having one with special needs put me to the test. I'm glad to say I survived and you will to! Get the book!
PsychGirly Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 I'm not a parent, but my younger sister used to be like this. She's 17 now, & she's already out of that teenage stage (thank God), but we went through hell with her while she was growing up. She would always complain that my mom favored me, & she was proud of who I was, but not her. I think most of her behavior is "normal" in the sense that it's not rare in girls that age. It's actually pretty common to rebel, have an attitude towards everything, & feel that the world should revolve around you. I believe you should spend more quality time with her--meaning actually go out with her to lunch, shopping, etc. It's important that she feels like she has a personal relationship with you as your daughter, rather than just another kid in the house who annoys you. Start talking to her as if she's a friend. Share things with her. Ask her about how her day went. Sometimes parents get so caught up with stress, they forget to communicate (I totally don't blame you). Communication becomes discipline & reprimanding. "Don't do this!" "How many times have I said...." "Bring me the ___". The child begins to feel like that's all she ever hears. You mentioned that your son is much easier to deal with. I'm sure subconsciously, you do speak to him much differently & possibly treat him a bit differently. I'm sure you love your children equally, but sometimes one child needs a bit more attention than the other. Knowing that your daughter sufferes from ADHD & ODD, you should be paying her a bit more attention, especially at such a critical point in her life. Don't EVER tell her things like "how come your brother never does that", or "see how good your brother is..." Comments like that permanently scars a child, because a child's worst fear is to not be loved by a parent, or feel like they are a burden, or that they have to compete with their siblings to get your love & affection. I can tell you're a great parent, & you worry a lot about her. It's something that's going to take time, patience, & a bit more effort...but it's possible.
kimby777 Posted February 3, 2009 Author Posted February 3, 2009 Thank you Metrogirl, I see what you are saying. I do agree that rewarding bad behavior is a mistake. However, I am not doing it for the reasons you may think. I was raised by a single mother who had very little money. I got Biway clothing not the good stuff like everyone else. I remember that feeling and try to accommodate where I can for my daughter. Not to give in, but she has other issues to deal with at school and in school and I do that so the clothing thing is not on top of the other stuff. Now she is in a Catholic High School and this year there is uniforms, we don't have that expense quite as much(of course, the uniforms are expensive too) now she can start to legally work next month, and she will be expected to get a P/T job to start paying for the extras she wants. No she is not in councelling yet! This is something we talked about last night, I deffinately think she needs it. but I am not sure if she'll really talk to a councellor. I can see also how maybe sometimes she feels this way too. But I am trying to teach her that you can't act any old way you want and expect people to accept it and carry on like nothing happened. i feelif I do that when she goes into the real world she'll lose jobs, friends, boy friends etc... and in this day and age could possibly wind up dead from mouthing off to the wrong person. I have tried being compasionate, cuddling, asking did you have a bad day?, what's wrong? etc... It doesn't work! The bottom line is that if you want something in this life there is a right way to get it and a wrong way to get it. She wants us to be caring, loving, talking, spending time with her (only when she wants it) but is missing the part about her responsibilities to get what she wants. Do you see my problem?
kimby777 Posted February 3, 2009 Author Posted February 3, 2009 Thank you very much Catsmeeoow and Psychgirly for your advce as well. I do compliment her when she has done good. This past Friday night she had a party to go to. Her first high school party! She came to me last week and said she was invited to this party and that there was going to be drinking there, and that she too would like to drink at the party. I was shocked! But I stayed calm. I told her I was proud of her for being honest with us about the drinking oppotunity. So, I allowed her to go because she was honest with me but, she was too young to drink. I spoke to her about the effects of alcohol etc... as an educational thing not a lecture. I needed time to think about it, because I told her "this is a new one and I will have to think about it for a bit and get back to her" I realized then things are changing fast. We then took her out for dinner just her my husband and I. We discussed our thoughts and fears around the whole thing and settled on the conclusion, if we don't let her go, next time she won't be honest with us, so we allowed her to go but she can't sleep over and she can't drink. I felt we came to a fair compromise. She sat there the whole time rolling her eyes and interrupting and being rude to both of us. However, she went to the party and was responsible. She didn't drink and watched how the other girls acted trashy. I said to her as I dropped her off to the party, "I trust you, and I have faith that you will do the right thing" and she did. I talked to her the next day and said I was proud of her and now the next time this comes up I know I can trust you to take care of yourself etc... you get the point! When she is down on herself I try to pick her back up. I tell her all the time you are a bright beautiful young lady! You are worth more than you can imagine. Bla bla bla! I domy best to raise her spirit and confidence but in return I get mouth. I think you are right and Iwill takeyour advice I will step back take a breath, and start rewarding the good things ina larger degree then I do now. I will start by the spending time if you get your chores done one and see what happens. Thank you both again. You have made me see it in a different perspective.
metrogirl Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 I do hear what you are saying. Let's address the giving of things first....I understand what it feels like to not have nice things growing up. I was in this position with my parents. They oftend bought my things second hand so I often didn't have the newest clothes. I got by I guess, it certainly made me appreciate things a lot more later as I got older. I think my children understand that concept as well. I get them what I can when I can, no demands are made on their part and sometimes they may have to wait a bit before I can get what they ask for. Thankfully, they aren't wanting anything and everything so it works I guess. Also, they learned early on if their behavior was not approved of, they could forget those new shoes or the lastest game or movie. I think my mindset really helped them not to be rowdy with me in their behavior. I will say that from experience, when a child is acting out, there is a far bigger issue at hand, it's usually a cry for help without them actually asking for help. In my daughters case, she was becoming increasingly interested in boys, actually bad boys and getting caught up with some things she shouldn't have. I fought with her constantly and in all honesty wanted to punch her lights out a few times. (I never did, don't worry). I was guilty of the same crime, spending more time with my youngest son. He was a great kid and I never had any problems with him. I had to focus more of my time and energy into getting her to open up. It was a battle, like your daughter mine always thought there was an ulterior motive when in reality all I wanted to do was help her and have a normal mother daughter relationship with her. I do think you should push the issue of counseling for her, even if she just sits with a counselor at school, perhaps someone can get her to open up just a tad so that you might find what is causing her to act out like that.
kimby777 Posted February 3, 2009 Author Posted February 3, 2009 Point taken, thank you! My husband and I have a councellor we can use whoisvery good. I will set up a meeting with her to go, I am not sure the if the best way to break through would be for me to be there or not I may suggest to the councellor for the first 1 or 2 for me to be there so she can see for herself what some of the issues are and let her take it from there by herself. Thanks again!
mrmaximum Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Kimby's hubby here just looking in on the thread. There are also a few other things that have come up in her past which may have contributed to the sitch. We sometimes think that She may have some abandonment issues due to the fact that she didn't really know her bio dad as he was physically abusive and Kimby had to put her foot down with her serial cheating ex. This former seriaol cheater is the man she knows as her father. This of course must contribute some form of dysfunction to her already full plate. I hear you about the cries for help Metro. I have pretty serious ADHD as well so I can relate to her in some cases, and can see where she is very frustrated at things. I won't get into it but I can indeed see where a lot of her anger at what's happening is coming from, as I have been in certian situations like it. The area where we are knocking our heads on the wall is her ODD. She tells us what she wants, but doesn't comprehend that by misbehaving will not get her where she wants to go. To put it bluntly, she wants to have her cake and eat it too in every way shape and form imaginanble and when it doesn't happen in the way she wants it, she then gets angry about it. My wife and I are at a loss at what to do as how do you comminicate to someone that their behavior is unnaceptable when they blame YOU for getting mad at them. That's the crux of ODD, nothing is ever their responsibility, everything is always someone else's fault and pretty much they have the attitude that everything would be fine and dandy if you "where just nicer to me". Ty so much for all the time that you have spent on this thread so far everyone, your responses are very helpful please keep them coming.
mrmaximum Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Have you looked at this site? link removed I've been to a few sites in the past but this one is pretty comprehensive. We had tried a few of the excercises outlined in the other ones and they didn't work out very well. It was somewhat ironic however to see her using the same techniques on the kids she babysat, weird huh? Ty so much for this link, there are some different exercises outlined that I've never seen before.
kimby777 Posted February 7, 2009 Author Posted February 7, 2009 Update: Well, I have been pretty upset all week. I have taken a step back from the situation and on Thursday, yet again my daughter broke the rules and I was angry. After school she asked if I could pick her up at so and so’s house. I said yes on my way home from work. I went there 2 different times and finally sent her a text message where r u? no reply I finally sent one to her friend asking where she was and then she replied to me. She wasn’t where she asked to go. I told her to come home right away. She relied NO, I’ll be home at curfew 8:30pm she wanted to stay with her friends. I calmly said, fine see you at 8:30pm. At 8:45pm still not home texted her again get home now. She strolled in at 9pm. I told her to sit down and firmly asked what the hell is wrong with you? Seriously! Tell me and I recapped all the text messages back and forth. She was crying, and says I want to go live with Dad he doesn’t yell at me, he understands me, you don’t etc… So I took a deep breath, went and got her some tissue told her to calm down, take a breath and let me know when she was ready. And for the first time she opened up to me and was able to describe really what goes on within her when dealing with us. It was so eye opening. She said that it is not her ADHD that is the problem here, it is her ODD she gets mad and basically blacks out and has no recollection of anything she said, which would explain why she would come to us later like nothing has happened, and never knows why she is in trouble. Now we’re getting somewhere! SO now we are going to see a councilor just her and I to start. We together need to know how to cope with this very serious condition. We need to be educated about it and learn tools to cope. Her more than me, because she has to live with this for the rest of her life, she’ll have learn how to manage this. So, the plan now is to go see the councilor to guide us in the right direction. I am hopeful, we can work it out and create a new relationship! I appreciated her honesty and courage in telling me what is going on within her, and now we can address it head on. Thanks to all who gave advice! It helped a great deal!
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